Why does it seem that most MtF are lesbians while most cis women are straight? Logically, shouldn't the majority of MtF be straight too? According to studies by the likes of Gallup and William Institute, up to only 4% of the population identifies as gay or lesbian. From what I've seen, this number seems more like +60% for MtF.
Yes, I am questioning the womanhood of MtF by means of their sexuality, although I don't mean it to be offending. An explanation would be appreciated, and pardon my ignorance.
>>5183398
Because most mtfs transition for fetishistic reasons. I transitioned because I'm lonely and I wanted to become my own personification of my 2d waifu
>>5183398
>Why does it seem that most MtF are lesbians
Honestly because a lot of them aren't really trans women and are in fact straight men with a fetish who claim to be masculine lesbian women.
People here deny it but from my exp with observing other trans people this is the most logical conclusion.
>>5183398
Confirmation bias. Most are straight after transition.
>>5183422
>>5183429
To bs answers based on personal conjecture.
Its some kind of western disease op. Mtfs in south america and asia are like 95% straight
>>5183433
>bs answers because I don't like them
My observations of other trans people for over 7 years says otherwise. I've had countless lesbian mtfs admit to me that they were turned on by the thought of transitioning and that they were pretty normal straight guys before hrt.
You might not like the answers I give but that doesn't mean they aren't true.
Most of the other mtfs I know are either straight or bi, can only think of one actual lesbian off the top of my head
AMABs are mostly straight at birth, that is, female attracted....so when we transition we mostly become female attracted women. Ergo, lesbians.
wew its this thread
A lot of people here just say they're all fetishists but it's a lot more complicated than that.
>>5183441
I have to agree with this, as much as in my head I want to believe I'm a lesbian, when I open my mouth and talk I don't sound like a girl and my body and face are not female. So I've accepted I'll never truly be a lesbian, also because after talking with actual cis lesbians I realize how different I am from them. Cis lesbians don't put on frilly qt clothes and fantasize about forced-fem like I do because they're already girls.
>>5183398
I think that just as homophobia has a lower percentage of cis women considering themselves lesbians simply out of habit and societal factors, a high percentage of trans women consider themselves lesbians because they had the societal pressure to be into women. Then there are trans, both men and women, who become startled by the fact that they are straight. I've noticed the ones not shocked by transitioning into being straight were the ones who seemed like they just were so gay they crossed over into straight trans; i.e., butch lesbians who had to come to terms with being straight trans men and femboys to straight trans women.
You are "questioning the womanhood of MtF by means of their sexuality"? What the actual fuck? Are you saying gay men are women? And lesbians are actually men? What are you even trying to say by this nonsense?
>>5184401
how do you think cis lesbians or women in general would behave if they would grow up being told that they have to behave masculine otherwise they are ridiculed or possibly beaten? behavior is learned and cis women were encouraged and forced to learn how women behave throughout their childhood. trans women were kept from learning it and were forced into another behavior.
trans answer: gender and sexuality are separate, and since most people are "straight" relative to their assigned gender, most MtFs should be transbians
real answer: they are straight male fetishists
>>5184420
>beaten for acting feminine
What third world shit hole do you live in kek. And a lot of behaviors cis women have are extension of their biology and hormonal makeup. Do you think they act soft and nurturing just cause of socialization? Women have evolved to be child rearing and nurturing, trannies on the other hand only think about where the buy panties and how often to madturbate Into them while watching anime
>>5184443
>bullied into being straight
This is such a bullshit cop out alleviating yourself from personal accountability. Being a cis les I can tell you no amount of pressuring or bullying from my parents would make me live a straight life. Which leads me to believe most transbians are predatory straight men
>>5184452
>And a lot of behaviors cis women have are extension of their biology and hormonal makeup. Do you think they act soft and nurturing just cause of socialization?
hormones do play a role, yes. but if they'd play anything but a minor role behavior would only vary slightly between different individuals and behavioral therapy could be done with hormone therapy.
socialization plays a huge role. children learn a lot from their environment. they mimick their parents and other adults they like. they mimick other kids when they see that their behaviour gives positivie enviromental responses and they test their behaviour through the environment. women and men are being both scolded into fitting their respective gender role.
>>5184463
My therapist is a 50 year old lesbian (cis, to be perfectly clear) who came out after being married to a man for decades
>>5184463
>my experience is the only valid one and nobody ever has another experience than i do
so i guess gay men with wives and kids never existed? or anybody in the closet at all?
Does anyone even have recent statistics on this? I'd be especially curious to see a time-lapsed study, since I see a lot of sexuality drift in trans persons.
>>5184418
The logic is that, if the people who identify as MtF were truly females, they would be straight like most females are (i.e. attracted to males). But it seems that, for those large majority of MtF who believe they are truly females, they are in fact lesbians, which is contrary to what the aforementioned logic should dictate. Thus, this is why their femininity (or womanhood) is questionable, because of their sexuality.
>>5183398
Because the pre HRT people you see here think their orientation won't change on 'mones. I mean, some of them are right, but most will want to suck at least a couple dicks.
I'm still bi like i was before but it's closer to 50/50 than the 80/20 it was before
>>5184501
The first step there is messed up. MtF's aren't "truly" females, they're genetic males who have something wrong with their neurology that creates gender dysphoria, which is generally remedied by acquiring female secondary sex characteristics and living in the female gender role. They don't literally have the brain of a cis woman transplanted into a male body. Considering homosexuality is also likely the result of abnormal neurological wiring, it makes sense that sexuality wouldn't exactly follow normal patterns in trans people
>>5184501
The logic is that, if the people who identify as PCOS were truly females, they would be straight like most females are (i.e. attracted to males). But it seems that, for those large majority of PCOS cases who believe they are truly females, they are in fact lesbians, which is contrary to what the aforementioned logic should dictate. Thus, this is why their femininity (or womanhood) is questionable, because of their sexuality
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15533359
>>5184515
kind of annoyed at the
>aren't "truly" females
because there isn't a hard line separating male from female so, once you have more physical characteristics associated with the one than the other, you should be considered more a "true target sex" than a "true starting sex".
otherwise, definitely agree, though can't really deny that >>5184470 plays a part as well
basically, it's messy
Studies show that 20% of MTF are also bisexual or homosexual. That's higher than the baseline population, but it's definitely not the majority. Could you in fact be a complete and total retard that overinflates your personal experiences into a general rule?
All signs point to "yes."
>>5184526
That's why I put truly in quotation marks. I was trying my best to avoid any contentious language. Same reason I said genetic males instead of biological males
>>5184463
so you claim that you personally would take to being a street kid rather than pretend to be straight until you can move out and therefore all queers would do the same?
>>5183398
>cis
>according to studies
>mtf
>from what I've seen
I don't get it. If I'm trans and straight then people tell me I'm just a gay fetishist trying to trick straight men into having sex with me. If I'm trans and lesbian then I'm just a straight fetishist who wants to prey on women. If I'm trans and asexual then I'm just a special snowflake who needs attention. What, then, is the "correct" and "real" way to be trans?
>>5185160
Oh no, you figured it out. The hidden premise of the argument is you are insane and you cannot be real and correct trans
>>5185160
some people don't want trans people to exist. they're just making up excuses so they don't have to reconsider their world view or to feel superior to someone else. don't get hung up on it.
>>5183398
Because they grew up as a boy and were conditioned to be disgusted by love from a man, how is this not obvious? With enough time on hormones they end up straight or mostly straight.
>>5184308
It's weird cos I went the other way round, preferred guys most of my life til I transitioned, saying that the girl I'm with now has a tendency to convert straight girls. .
>>5183398
I think a lot of transgender people are too afraid to leave the gay community,
they're too scared to enter the straight world so they pretend to be lesbians/gays
>mtf
>bi
>currently in serious committed hetero relationship
AGP is probably the reason many mtf's are lesbians.
does it mean trans people with AGP arent legit transgender or "true trans" ...idk, a lot of people gripe over it tho. my opinion is, who am i to question the validity of somebodies gender identity. But then some people are more dogmatic than me.
>>5185320
Oh baby, yes. Tell me more about how they get brainwashed into liking men
>>5185457
But most "gay" mtfs were straight normie dudes before and probablly afraid of the gay community due to homophobia like caitlyn jenner
>>5183398
Bi MtF here
Given that being trans is basically a stuff up in the brain during pregnancy which leads to us being conflicted about gender there is no reason to think that another part of the brain, ie that handles sexuality develops in the average cis male fashion. Thus giving transbians.
There are whose brains are damaged in certain areas in their brain are damaged which means they can't speak at all. However, the part of their brain which hears can be just fine, so they grow up able to understand everyone but not speak.
TL:DR Different areas of the brain are effected to different extents in development.
I'm a mtf have always been into guys but I have to admit I've never brought a bf home to my parents because I think they would be less excepting if I was trans and liked guys, there's an extra level of stigma attached to that.
>>5185890
>afraid of the gay community due to homophobia
That doesn't make sense. That's not the sort of thing that would alter one's orientation.
>>5184407
No, many lesbians I know are total fems. They are much more common than butch lesbians. The real rare ones are those that physically present feminine, but are totally butch in temperament. I melt for them.
>>5186400
That's weird, I'd think they'd be less accepting if you brought a girl home because then it just seems like you're dressing up like a girl for no reason
both MtFs and FtMs are pretty evenly split into like 1/3 straight, 1/3 bi and 1/3 gay
i think most 'straight' people aren't as straight as they claim they are. or they're not aware of their bisexual potential because exploration is heavily discouraged and society encourages men to be providers and women to seek financial security in men.
think about all the homosexuality happening in ancient rome. gay and straight are modern political concepts.people have always had preferences, but humans are naturally sexually opportunists. it's culture that's holding them back from realizing it.
>>5184452
>>beaten for acting feminine
>What third world shit hole do you live
sounds like the good 'ol USA.
mtf biscum here. i was openly bi starting in high school and i'm openly bi today. idk much about mtfs who were only straight before transition, but i've been around the community long enough to know that most 'transbians' are bi and will readily suck cock as long as its attached to someone they're attracted too. they're just too afraid of most men to try dating guys. i guess that's why there's so many trans couples. they don't feel as threatened by each other and it's an acceptable outlet for them to explore their male/male homosexual feelings.
>>5186712
This sounds like a plausible explanation.
>>5186712
Lots of cis females end up afraid of men. Some, who aren't even lesbian or bisexual, go on to form relationships with only women. Naturally the ones who are bisexual can go on to only same sex relationships.
I worked on a bisexual support line for a few years. I'm not sure I can be surprised at what people will do to survive.
Personally I'm a MtF who is bisexual. I've been mostly exclusively going out with women because I feel much more comfortable with them. I've had my own bad incidents with guys so they are generally now on my shit list and require exquisite references before I'll consider them. Unfortunately those with exquisite references are often already married.
>>5186663
Dressing as a girl for no reason is more beneficial for them to understand than the prospect that they'll never get grand kids from me.
Not to mention my bf is black and my dad is racist.
>>5186913
same anon. i guess that makes sense. to be fair i get pretty nervous around dudes i don't know sometimes, especially if they're significantly bigger than me (i'm 168cm) or i'm out alone.
i guess the point i was trying to make is that a lot of mtf are likely wary because of experiences with other men before transitioning. a lot of mtf seem to have been shy, nerdy types and i think the whole transbian thing is one way to cope with that.
they didn't feel safe around the dudes who bullied them as guys, and they don't feel safe around guys now that they've transitioned despite having latent desires. i get that. I mean it's not like i didn't get a fair amount of shit for the gay dating i did back then. but i also had a lot of positive experiences with the guys i dated at the time so i'm probably more comfortable because of that.
i thought it was worth noting since this stupid transbian meme won't die and my experiences with trans women i've been around / dated has given me a little insight into some of the ones who identify as lesbians.
>>5183398
The agreagate of studdies puts it at 70% androphilic and 19% bi.
That's about the same rate european countries have for orientation in genY women.
Because MtFs are dirty depraved fetishists. Was that the answer you're fishing for OP?
>>5187446
this (>>5186913) anon
Yeah, from when I was bullied has had a big impact. I've seen that in others too. The thing is since then I've had some excellent relationships with guys. On the flip side, all three of my latest attempts were dismal to downright scary, and they are what I remembered most because for decades I didn't remember any of the earlier relationships.
>stupid transbian meme won't die
It's just myopic trolls who were taught to hate those that are different. I feel sorry for them as they will never know the freedom of acceptance of their full self.
>>5187485
>The agreagate of studdies puts it at 70% androphilic and 19% bi.
>That's about the same rate european countries have for orientation in genY women.
I'd love to see the studies.
I know there is one from china that had very high rates compared to conventional wisdom western rates for bi and gay, and transgender. They were up in the range you report.
>>5184515
>Considering homosexuality is also likely the result of abnormal neurological wiring,
But is it caused by the same imbalanced hormonal event before birth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=243gqNzPYQg
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology
>>5185875
Yes, please do, this is my fetish.
>>5186712
>>5186913
Yeah, bi MtF here as well in the same boat. I'd probably be much more inclined to date guys if I weren't so scared of them. Almost every intimate experience I've had with guys has been negative. They've crossed the line with sexual harassment/rape way more than once, spiked my drinks to try to kidnap me more than once, faked genuine interest just to get a chance to fuck me countless times, and violated my personal limits once I actually got into bed with them way, way more than once... not to mention the massive amount of violence and intimidation I experienced from guys growing up, which led me to hide any indication that I was LGBT until my early 20s. If a guy starts flirting with me I cringe and panic. It's frustrating because I am attracted to them, but I can't get over that innate fear and mistrust I've developed over the years from the experiences I've had.
Even though women have fucked me over too, I feel safer with women. They've never messed me up in the way guys have.
>>5184452
>What third world shit hole do you live in kek.
Pretty much all parts of the planet that aren't Eastern Canada, select areas of the coastal U.S., and Western Europe.
>>5186787
>AGP is bull shit and totally bogus.
no
Goes to show how poorly understood the transgender people are.
I personally am attracted to cute things most of all, have always been, be it guys or girls. I find the female form more attractive for no apparent reason. Don't think that plays much of a part in my desire to transition though, guys can be cute too. I do find it more arousing to be female but it's more to do with me having a better body image than some sort of fetish.
>>5183398
>Why does it seem that most MtF are lesbians
because they're men and men like women
>>5183398
because they were socialized to like women
>believing sexual orientations are natural
>2015
>>5194223
This would be a good explanation if it actually made sense.
>>5183398
According to my gender therapist who has over 25 years exp with transwomen both young and old, most trans lesbians especially the older ones are usually just cross dressers and transvestites with very mild gender issues unlike most straight & bisexual feminine transwomen who exp gender dysphoria from a very early age and act more like cis girls. She goes on to say that it's policy not to gate keep but to guide anyone who feels like they want to transition and take female hormones.
>>5194223
I was strictly socialized to be a guy and like women yet I still turned out attracted to men, what gives?
>>5186712
>>5186913
>>5189915
Transbian here, personally I feel like I would have turned out bi if not for dysphoria. There's definitely been a little interest in guys but the way they smell, the feel of facial hair, etc just kills it for me. It's made me consider that for some it may just boil down to bringing up bad memories of how they used to be more then any other factor. I've talked to a few mtf's that could 'never be with a girl cause oh god the dysphoria', and I've begun to believe there's an opposite side that just 'can't be with a guy cause oh god the dysphoria'
>>5194243
unlike most people you are not in denial anymore about your desires
good job
>>5183398
MtF's are a pretty small portion of the population, I've met only about a dozen including myself but none of them who spoke about their sexuality were lesbians so just as you have decided 60% of them are lesbians based on your anecdotal experience, I have found 0% of them to be lesbians based off of mine.
>>5189915
>Almost every intimate experience I've had with guys has been negative.
My early experiences almost made me totally swear off them, but I did get swept off my feet by a guy who romanced me properly. Later I had the only three I remembered. The last one ended with me being raped.
>sexual harassment
most
>rape
a number of times
>spiked my drinks to try to kidnap me more than once
a few times i was hit with forget-mes, the date rape drug. One incident pushed me over the edge and got me to cleanup my heroin habit.
>faked genuine interest...
yep
>violated my personal limits once I actually got into bed with them...
often
>not to mention the massive amount of violence and intimidation I experienced from guys growing up, which led me to hide any indication that I was LGBT until my early 20s.
i started sex with older guys at clubs when I was almost 15 and mostly stopped it when I was 16. I was young, naive, and got burned. At the same time I was also having sex with older women.
>If a guy starts flirting with me I cringe and panic. It's frustrating because I am attracted to them, but I can't get over that innate fear and mistrust I've developed over the years from the experiences I've had.
iktf!!!
I want to work on this issue in therapy. Unfortunately there is a long list ahead of it.
>Even though women have fucked me over too...
the gals who used me at least made it fun for me, and showered me with gifts.
>>5194209
Who I'm attracted to plays zero part in my desire to transition. I'm transitioning because I am feminine on the inside. Trying to be masculine feels wrong, and makes me depressed. Having a dick also feels wrong. My brain expects my body to have curves, and a pussy.
>>5194245
I can see that. I haven't test driven a guy recently so I haven't had a chance to see if that is so for me.
>>5194278
My dysphoria may be mild, but going onto estrogen clearly helped my brain become much less fuzzy, and made it much clearer thinking than when i was on my natural testosterone.
>>5194326
>Trying to be masculine feels wrong, and makes me depressed. Having a dick also feels wrong. My brain expects my body to have curves, and a pussy.
Basically the same for me though I won't be doing SRS for the foreseeable future. I've never dated anyone out of my own desire and probably never will, I'm transitioning purely to get rid of the the negative effects of dysphoria.
>>5194243
you're just doing it for the attention. again, just like all gender roles, sexuality is learned and is the result of your socialization.
