Are there any straight people here who are jealous of /lgbt/ people?
I've always envied them since I was a little kid. I was always fascinated by queer culture and how much more freedom it seemed to offer than the heterosexual culture.
Gay men, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people can all choose their "role". They can be masc or twinks or butches or femmes or androgynous. They can be tops or bottoms. It seems to me that queers can choose pretty freely how to act in relationships.
If you are born a straight guy or a girl, there is no freedom like that. There are exactly two roles, male and female, period. A straight guy has to be masculine alpha jerk or he's a beta failure. A straight girl must be submissive feminine slut or she's undesirable. Individual traits don't matter. Any attempt to break the mold means you might as well accept living alone for the rest of your life.
I don't have any questions about my sexuality or gender, but I'm still really drawn to this board and reading about LGBT people in general. I guess I'm basically vicariously living through them.
I know this is a bit off topic for this board but I don't know where else it would belong.
If anything, I'd argue that the rules that you often find an LGBT culture allows for less freedom. People see your body type, declare you with a label, and then decide whether or not they're interested in you based solely on that label. As a guy who personally enjoys a wide variety of body types, I find it pretty distressing.
On the other hand, I have heard of quite a few nerdy bear types who kinda wished that were gay because attracted far more attention from gay men than they did from women. I can kinda see that.
>I've always envied them since I was a little kid. I was always fascinated by queer culture and how much more freedom it seemed to offer than the heterosexual culture.
What seemed insane to me as a gay man was that one straight guy literally asked how two tennis people got together, when the woman was slightly older than the guy. He seemed to think that women are somehow 'tricked' into liking men, and he must do so himself with a younger woman. He could not comprehend how two people can simply like each other.
>>5415634
>If you are born a straight guy or a girl, there is no freedom like that. There are exactly two roles, male and female, period. A straight guy has to be masculine alpha jerk or he's a beta failure. A straight girl must be submissive feminine slut or she's undesirable. Individual traits don't matter. Any attempt to break the mold means you might as well accept living alone for the rest of your life.
So which one are you?
I don't think it's worth envying gay people for their supposed lack of "roles." There is a gay culture and since gay people are raised by straights, they're also influenced by hetero culture. And they're blocked from many aspects of it, because straights don't want them to have access to it. Like being married, for example.
I used to have your perspective but I got over it. It's not healthy to envy other people and it's not logical to envy LGBT people because legally they've been shat on and marginalized for decades.
>>5415634
Sounds like you need to go on an adventure and find yourself. I'm new at the gay culture, and I gotta say it's not that magical. Yeah you can try to fit a category and get a ton of sexual attention, but real love is harder to find in that sea of degeneracy. Grass is not greener.
>>5415653
True, the roles are a lot about appearance. But at least appearance is something you can try to change, even if not everyone will make a perfect twink or passable MtF.
With straight people no matter what your appearance, you still have to perform the same role decided by your sex.
>>5415681
Yeah, the age obsession is a good example. And the idea that women don't actually even want to be with men (and are only there for the money/status etc) is also because women are never supposed to initiate anything and just passively tolerate men's affection.
>>5415705
I understand that LGBT have been treated badly and I know that the gay culture has been created out of necessity. But that's also why I feel straight people will never challenge our roles in that way - we don't have any real motivator to do so, it all works perfectly for most people.
>>5415774
My point about gay culture is that there are "roles" and there are people throwing shit at each other that's similar to men and women talking shit about each other.
>we don't have any real motivator to do so, it all works perfectly for most people.
I agree, and there are also subcultures like "female-led relationships" if you're into that sort of thing. My suggestion is just look around, or create something new for yourself and other straights.
>>5415634
Just be who you are OP and work toward loosening up modern gender roles. The expectation of guys to shoulder everything by themselves and ignore their emotions is harmful
You are right. I did not really think about it that way...thanks for opening my eyes to that.
>>5415634
Queers "choose our role", as you put it, because we reject the social norm. We have to, more or less, because the social norm is at odds with our biological reality.
You can choose to do so as well. What you say here:
>A straight guy has to be masculine alpha jerk or he's a beta failure. A straight girl must be submissive feminine slut or she's undesirable. Any attempt to break the mold means you might as well accept living alone for the rest of your life.
is fucking nonsense. A lot of people do believe that and will treat you appropriately, but certainly no more than treat queers like shit. You're free to choose your heterosexual "role" and still receive less backlash, or at best no more, than we do.
In a way I guess I am yeah. I grew up in the UKs gay city so being around faggots of every colour wasn't anything particular to me, and people coming out was like a "oh, alright" thing as opposed to a shitstorm. I also have some in my family.
But growing up, gay guys in particular, always have this particular charm, as if being what is still at times a counter-culture gives them a little experience of something. Plus I'm completely jelly that if I wanted to go clubbing and dance the night away to Donna Summer or Bronski Beat I'd be more regarded as a weirdo, whereas homos are all over that.
Plus fucking fashion sense holy shit.
>>5415919
>we reject the social norm
we do? seems like everything we do is mostly based around sex and building an identity around how feminine or masculine we want to be, in all variations of extremes. I wouldn't call that rejection social norms, I'd call that celebrating them.
>Plus I'm completely jelly that if I wanted to go clubbing and dance the night away to Donna Summer or Bronski Beat I'd be more regarded as a weirdo, whereas homos are all over that.
>Plus fucking fashion sense holy shit.
oh dear
>>5415634
>A straight guy has to be masculine alpha jerk or he's a beta failure
IKTF it's so rigid it's soul-destroying. This is literally why I cultivate my small gay side because being a straight male is so dull.
>Be alpha
>Wear plain cut t-shirt and jeans, everything must be blue or grey
>Buy a girl things
>Fuck her
>You put your penis in her, anything else is "wrong"
And if you don't toe this line you are a beta or a faggot. I've basically rebelled completely, crossdressing and sucking black dick despite being mostly straight in the sense of "you called me a fag for wearing a pink shirt and being quiet ok I'll show you a fag" Women are oppressed, men are repressed, both are shit.
>>5415963
>crossdressing and sucking black dick despite being mostly straight
>>5415963
I don't know where you live or how old you are, but no one I know that are straight are like that. Maybe you've listened to people on 4chan for too long?
>>5415963
>>5415941
A man behaving in a feminine way is a rejection of social norms. Queer culture has its own established norms, which are almost as stupid, I admit. Point is the degree of freedom OP is talking about is his for the taking.
straight guy here, I feel you on this OP. i'm terribly jealous of lesbians. i really don't like the male gender role and i greatly prefer the female aesthetic (lithe and slender vs buff and burly). also i'm a kinky fucker and being a straight male males me feel uncomfortable to play the submissive role. I see submissive men as pathetic, but if i were a woman i would have no qualms about playing both the sub and dom roles.
>>5415980
oh, and yes OP, i do read this board out of jealousy and "vicarious living"
>>5415969
How long has it been since you worked a minimum wage job?
>>5415974
Yeah, but a guy acting feminine is not going to attract women. The price of being yourself is giving up relationships. In LGBT culture even the most effeminate queen can find love, hell, there are people who are openly into that.
>>5415980
I experience this kinda from the opposite side. I can relate a lot more to butch lesbians than I can to other straight women. I've always been masculine and attracted to femininity, just not female bodies. I'm just avoiding relationships, nothing about hetero sex and dating is attractive to me, I'm practically asexual.
>>5415992
Friday, it's my weekend now.
>>5416016
>Yeah, but a guy acting feminine is not going to attract women. The price of being yourself is giving up relationships.
I don't know how you can say that and then immediately say you're attracted to femininity but not female bodies. You are probably not the only straight woman out there with those tastes
No, i do not envy them. I amfriends, even family, with people in the gay community, i dont want too be a homosexual. Its just not my thing. What is there too envy, when you can have it by just goong on grindr
Seeing straight men constantly whine about "muh gender roles" is so baffling and, honestly, nauseating.
>>5415974
I don't see a man behaving in a feminine way as a rejection of social norms. Maybe if we still lived between the 50s and the 70s, but those norms sort of changed drastically.
If we can callously divide straight and queer "norms" like this, pua/seduction norms even suggest to men to behave a bit feminine because it sets them aside from the other men.
Queer norms seems to want to emulate straight norms as much as possible, even tho everyone is super insulted when someone asks who the man and woman is in the relationship, much of queer norm is just that.
>>5416016
They might be into that, but it's very limiting. People are strictly into what they are into and nothing else, as opposed to in the straight world where people can change their mind over time.
>>5416042
The stock male gender role is fairly rigid. Yeah, a typical man will have a lot of privileges and will have an easy time being successful, but there are plenty of guys who don't fit comfortably into that role
>>5416047
1) There's many men out there who don't fit and they're still assholes. This is apparently how men express "femininity" - by whining, wearing dresses and sucking dick. Real groundbreaking, I can see what you think about "femininity" is amazing and super respectful of women. 2) Even alpha males have their bad days and women are still expected to be their emotional caregivers. So whenever a man says he can't cry in public, I know that man is crying in private, expecting his wife to fix everything, while when women cry we're weaklings, hysterical bitches, or just PMSing.
I'm getting too mad to deal with this topic t b h.
>>5416047
>a typical man will have a lot of privileges and will have an easy time being successful
(This is what middle-to-upper class kids actually believe.)
Bill burr made a point about this
"Thats why you see alot of guys dying off at 40, 50 years old. So many years of not being able to say a puppy is fucking cute because youre friends will jump on you for being a fag."
>>5416047
So I guess most men on the earth are pretty successful, huh? Unsuccessful men must be a minority, then. That's crazy! I didn't know that.
>>5416076
Dont even cry in private. Ive tried just letting it all out, but I can't.
>>5416030
>why not become a transbian
Because we have enough fake trans who are really men inside
>>5416030
>Why not become a transbian?
i've considered it and come to the conclusion that i dont hate my genitalia, just that if life were an rpg i'd have picked female. does that make sense?
i'd still be attracted to women regardless. i've lurked the mtf and transbian threads and i don't share the same struggles of dysphoria. it's just a sort of "it would be nice" sort of thing.
>>5416042
>Man complains
>It's whining
More proof of repression right here. We are supposed to just suck up our feelings and never say we are unsatisfied with life.
>>5416116
You don't have to chop off your dick. Who gives a fuck if you're not dysphoric, if it's what you want just fucking do it. The "trutrans" meme has become cancerous, what is wrong with just wanting to be cute? It's your body, you don't need to justify it to anyone.
Femininity in straight men somehow always ends up crossing into AGP. I think it's because they really hate everything about femininity that isn't about sex. All that other stuff is what makes women look like insufferable bitches to them.
Masculine straight women are stuck in a hopeless state of infantile rebellion because in reality it's not possible for a woman to exert power over men the way that is necessary to be truly considered masculine. To men women trying to do the "strong female hurr" shit makes them go "aaw, look at that adorable little thing thinking she's threatening". Men can't take women seriously because to them women are basically like children.
Straight people are bound by biology much more than gay people because by default gay people break the rules natural behavior.
Look at feminists. A lot of them have challenged female gender roles. They might be more comfortable like that, but it also makes them completely unfuckable and insufferable to straight men.
>>5415634
Look at it this way op:
Yeah, we have more freedom to select our roles and express our masculine/feminine side
but we also are at risk of getting beaten or even murdered in most of the world just because of that.
And I'm not talking about shit places like the middle east. I've had to face lots of bullshit on here just for holding my boyfriend's hand on public, and same sex marriage has been legal here for years.
>>5416016
>but a guy acting feminine is not going to attract women.
Totally untrue. Women have been into feminine looking men for ages. Why do you think K-Pop has become so popular lately? Because the music is good? No! Because every single male k-pop singer looks like a girl. And tons of women love that.
>>5416152
Yeah they look feminine that's where the similarities stop. They still have alpha personalities.
>>5416133
>Masculine straight women are stuck in a hopeless state of infantile rebellion because in reality it's not possible for a woman to exert power over men the way that is necessary to be truly considered masculine. To men women trying to do the "strong female hurr" shit makes them go "aaw, look at that adorable little thing thinking she's threatening". Men can't take women seriously because to them women are basically like children.
I'm a "masculine" straight woman and this is pretty true. Masculinity isn't anything without power. However, you didn't factor in the frank disgust that men have on their faces when looking at us or the fear or contempt other straight women have for us.
>>5416046
I feel like you're having a no doubt very sound and rational argument, but against someone who isn't me and didn't say the things I said. You're off on a tangent.
>>5415634
The added bullshit lgbt face negates any of the perks.
And I think you're mistaking variety for choice. Nobody chooses to be androgynous or femme or what have you, they either listen to the voice in their head telling them that's who they want to be, or they repress it.
>>5416175
>They still have alpha personalities
but the women wetting their panties for them don't know that. The picture them as being tender and sweet.
Really, the only downside of being a feminine guy is having other guys calling you a faggot, which lgbt people get anyways.
>>5416180
If you're straight why are you on /lgbt/?
>>5416190
Curiosity, usually.
>>5416175
yes, exactly. pretty boys with masculine personalities have always been popular.
same doesn't really go for women, str8 dudes don't like women who look like men. but slightly tomboyish girls can get away with it if they act very feminine.
>>5416180
Yup. Shit sucks. I'm completely used to men being disgusted by me but I'm always kinda puzzled about how offended women can get about just how I dress or act.
>>5415634
>tfw once again, andro femboy master race
truly the most privileged existence ever to exist
>>5416197
One time I had some woman drag her teenage daughter away from me by her face. Literally put her hand around her daughter's cheek and nose and dragged her like ten feet.
I don't care about it so much as I hate knowing men find me repulsive. Women being repulsed by me is more laughable and weird than offensive. But I'm obsessed with dudes, and I don't want to be feminine just to appeal to them. So it sucks.
And "tomboy" practically means "sporty or alternative girl with a ponytail" these days, shit's fucking stupid.
>>5416188
Nah, there's a level of choice involved. We're not robots, there's no chemical in the brain that says "wear a pretty dress".
>>5416221
Tomboy to me is like that "cool girl" thing in Gone Girl.
I've never wanted a bf because I know it would mean acting feminine and submissive to him and it's a complete turn-off. I only once had a crush on a guy because I thought he was very feminine (in behavior) and kinda submissive, but it turned out he liked being very alpha male with his gfs in private. I think that's true for all sensitive metrosexual types.
>>5416246
A lot of the submissive males out there are physically unappealing. And then you run into 5'7" beta-looking dudes who actually want to choke and piss on you. Life is suffering.
What pisses me off about threads like this is the parody of femininity men display rather than thinking of it in terms of catering to women. We're approaching it from two different perspectives - they want to be feminine for themselves, while my experience with femininity is that I had to perform it to be appealing to men. Do men ever think about changing themselves drastically to be appealing to women? Ever? And I have never seen a "masculine" straight woman make threads like this, either.
I liked Gone Girl. And you're right, there's some overlap there. What did you think of the movie?
>>5416273
most of us look like shit but some of us manage to pull it off. it's all about bone structure.
>>5416246
>. I only once had a crush on a guy because I thought he was very feminine (in behavior) and kinda submissive, but it turned out he liked being very alpha male with his gfs in private. I think that's true for all sensitive metrosexual types.
Yeah it's kind of weird how true this seems for straight guys. A lot of my friends are more shy sensitive types and they're still all really into being dominant in the bedroom
>>5416277
A lot of you seem to just not care about looking good. At all. And you seem to be in poor health. This is just my opinion, I'm not trying to be an asshole.
>>5416273
>What pisses me off about threads like this is the parody of femininity men display rather than thinking of it in terms of catering to women. We're approaching it from two different perspectives - they want to be feminine for themselves, while my experience with femininity is that I had to perform it to be appealing to men.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying people shouldn't try to be feminine because they like it, but instead should only be feminine to increase their sexual attractiveness?
>Do men ever think about changing themselves drastically to be appealing to women? Ever?
I mean yeah, a lot of men feel pressured to be "alpha" and dominant even if that's not what comes naturally to them because they feel that's the only way to be attractive to women.
>>5416273
> We're approaching it from two different perspectives - they want to be feminine for themselves, while my experience with femininity is that I had to perform it to be appealing to men. Do men ever think about changing themselves drastically to be appealing to women? Ever?
Yeah, that's a major reason why I'd rather die alone. I don't get off on being lusted at and putting on a show for a guy like most women seem to. I find the idea of a guy seducing me like that attractive - that's behavior that I've ever only seen from gay men. No wonder even sexy photos of men in media are mostly taken by gay men and only porn that objectifies men is gay porn. Str8 sub men either get off on being as disgusting as possible, or they simply have AGP. I would kill for a submissive twink who knows he's hot and exploits it, even if he was a major narcissist.
I haven't seen the movie, I heard it kinda over simplified the themes of the story.
>>5416295
Yes and most straight women like that too. When a straight girl says she dislikes macho, domineering men, they almost always mean they want that behavior to be limited to bedroom.
>>5416130
This, started taking hormones because of agp and agp alone, best decision of my life
>>5415634
That's easy op
just get a Dominatrix bf
>>5416356
gf*
>>5416356
>dominatrix bf
>dominatrix
>bf
Uhh...
>>5416321
>We're approaching it from two different perspectives
I said it right there. What "feminine" men do isn't even often being compassionate, understanding, cooperative, trusting intuition, having empathy, and being self-sacrificing. Or whatever other traits femininity has attributed to it. And YES, a huge part of femininity is obsessing with being looking appealing to the opposite sex. Men approach femininity with "I want to wear a dress," or "I want to cry," or "I want to get fucked." It just gets on my nerves. That's not all femininity is about. Femininity is constantly giving a shit about what the outside world thinks of you, which is why all the emotional traits are "giving" traits. You can't separate the two. Men are shit at femininity, they just perform a bastardized, mutant version of it.
>I mean yeah, a lot of men feel pressured to be "alpha" and dominant even if that's not what comes naturally to them because they feel that's the only way to be attractive to women.
That's not changing your physical appearance, though.
>>5416322
> I don't get off on being lusted at and putting on a show for a guy like most women seem to. I find the idea of a guy seducing me like that attractive - that's behavior that I've ever only seen from gay men. No wonder even sexy photos of men in media are mostly taken by gay men and only porn that objectifies men is gay porn. Str8 sub men either get off on being as disgusting as possible, or they simply have AGP. I would kill for a submissive twink who knows he's hot and exploits it, even if he was a major narcissist.
Exactly me, too. I want a guy to give me "fuck me" eyes and tease me. Straight sub males seem to hate themselves like this anon >>5415980 here. I don't even know what to say, since I just don't get it. And if you're talking about forced feminization and sissyfication that stuff is just equating femininity/womanhood with being inferior and submissive. Which is offensive. And sub males don't even care.
Why the fuck would you crazy motherfuckers WANT to be feminine?
You do realize that femininity is just a set of survival traits for weak people, right?
Nothing to do with reproduction, everything to do with convincing the stronger humans to help you instead of hurt you.
I can't decide whether feminine people are cucks or parasites, but neither is good.
>>5416423
Look at this gay masc4masc Nazi right here.
>>5416423
>this is what radfems actually believe
>>5416450
>false flagging a misogynist as a radfem
Butthurt mtf spotted.
>>5416441
>>get butthurt by reality, call reality fascism
Way to degrade the actual horror of the Nazi, dumbfuck.
>>5416383
>That's not changing your physical appearance, though.
In some cases it is though. Like working out, getting new clothes / haircuts so you don't look "beta" or "gay".
>>5416423
Uh, just because our personalities and interests happen to align with what is considered feminine? And weak people exist, so saying "femininity is for weak people", isn't really an argument. And unless you're inclined to "alpha" behavior, there really isn't much benefit trying to be masculine. Like why should people force themselves to act all strong and "alpha", expend lots of energy competing with other men, when that's not really what they even want? For those people the feminine roll is pretty much objectively preferable.
>>5416423
You say this and yet this very board is swarmed with men who want to be women.
>>5416469
I've got no probably with females, just femininity.
>>5415634
Honestly I'm kind of jealous of gay men.
Women are not fun people, they're only good for sex. Gay men get to fuck and hang out with fun people.
>>5416485
>Women are not fun people, they're only good for sex.
r9k.txt
>>5416423
Femininity is basically just submissiveness. It means playing the supportive role in relationship and in society.
Not everyone can be a leader. And leaders want someone to support them, emotionally. Someone who isn't threatened by their power but is fond of it.
Why do you think so many great men have had a loving, supportive woman behind them? It's one of the biggest advantages straight guys have. Women especially are fucked because no guy is going to be the cheerleader in the relationship. With gay men and lesbians it varies, but they can have similar relationship with the more feminine partner supporting the masculine one. See all those gay artists and their twink muses as an example.
Yes, the feminine role is inferior. But so is working for another person instead of being a boss and most people still prefer it.
>>5416481
Hating femininity has nothing to do with hating women. Not everyone woman is feminine and not all feminine people are women. If anything real sexism is thinking that feminine = female.
>>5416474
You think strength is just a word? Just a preference?
Jesus Christ, what a fantastic example of disconnection from reality.
Strength is what keeps the spectacularly hostile reality that we live in from KILLING and EATING you. There's nothing "alpha" or "beta" about strength. Our pale blue dot is an extremely, lethally competitive and hostile oasis spinning in an infinite void that is completely antithetical to life. Strength is what separates the Live from the Dead.
Strength is the first virtue, nothing else can exist without the strength to support it.
You goddamn degenerate.
>>5416503
>Women especially are fucked because no guy is going to be the cheerleader in the relationship.
Straight guys who want to be feminine: read this.
>>5416504
>Just because they don't think you're a woman, doesn't mean they're misogynist.
They've been known to claim cis women aren't real women because they don't fit into their idea of what it means to be women.
>>5416510
Yes, but some people just aren't cut out to be strong. You sound like the type of person who's so obsessed about these ideas of masculinity and strength that you'd rather get yourself killed fighting someone five times your size instead of facing the shame of walking away from a fight. That isn't a survival trait, it's a death wish. If you're not strong, there's no point in pretending to be; it makes much more sense to adopt behavior that increases your chances of survival.
>>5416510
Weakling male nerds are building the modern world and alphalfa males who are all "I am a stronk menz" have no purpose in existing. And you were always controlled by richer, more intelligent males in the first place. Go back to /fit/.
>>5416530
the "alpha nerd" or alpha intellectual or whatever thing has always been one type of traditional masculinity.
there are no women with those traits.
>>5416510
You should move out of a warzone anon, I hear Europe is taking in a lot of refugees
>>5416526
>They've been known to claim cis women aren't real women because they don't fit into their idea of what it means to be women.
And I know trans women who think cis women are closeted trans men whenever they don't like femininity. Get over yourself.
>>5416537
Why are you women bashing again when this dude is literally disparaging MEN for choosing to be feminine? /r9k/ -------->
>>5416526
Some people just aren't cut out to be strong?
Well, jesus, I wonder what happened to them before these easy modern times.
I'm just going to guess that they manned up and got strong. Or died.
Lots of dying back then.
>>5416530
>>5416530
So they were controlled by stronger men? Thanks for proving my point.
>>5416537
>there are no women with those traits.
It may be correct to say that there are no women who are alpha in the male sense, though absolute statements like that are usually inaccurate given that there are literally billions of people on this planet. However, it's not because of some sort of magical difference between men and women, women most certainly can and do contribute to building the model world. The real reason there are no women with the complete traits of "alpha males" is because dominant women are almost universally disapproved of. It's not that women are incapable of being dominant - dominant women are rare, but not nonexistent. It's the fact that men, being in the dominant, superior position, are insecure due to fears of losing that position. Because of that they fear dominant women. And because for much of history the whole purpose of a woman's life was to find a husband, there have always been strong incentives for women not to act dominant, even if that's what they happened to be inclined to.
>>5416561
Smarter men. Not physically strong, like you were clearly celebrating.
>>5416561
You are retarded. What about scientists, artists, politicians, etc etc. Human society has been a bit more complex than "unga bunga me strong" for at least five thousand years
>>5416541
FUCK OFF WE'RE FULL
>>5416561
>Some people just aren't cut out to be strong?
>Well, jesus, I wonder what happened to them before these easy modern times.
>I'm just going to guess that they manned up and got strong. Or died.
>Lots of dying back then.
Sure, some of them died. But you seem to think all of human history prior to the renaissance or something was literally every man for himself. It wasn't, the end of the "every man for himself" attitude occurred as the very beginning of civilization; it's an attitude that's inherently incompatible with civilized society. Even cavemen didn't follow that attitude. A society overall tends to be stronger when its members work together, and that means that it is often in their best interest to protect and support individuals who by most measures are weak. That's the whole basis of patriarchial society structure - women are weak, but are protected by stronger men because no man could give birth. And the same applies to men too, they may be weak, but other men will have reason to support them as long as they have something to offer. Even since pre-historic times, societies have followed something more akin to the economic model of supply and demand (weak man has rare, valuable skill, thus stronger men protect him) rather than it being every man for himself.
I secretly wish I were gay, and fantasize about being in a romantic relationship. What's that make me
>>5416510
Let's talk about strength in modern day terms.
What exactly is strength?
>Physical Strength
back in caveman days, yes this would be quite useful. Or if we consider modern times, what kind of jobs would best be suited for great physical strength? Oil rigs, construction work, blue collar shit. Most of those jobs are not a great way to gain money. Not to mention that a lot of college bros who build up their massive gainz tend to lose it and grow fat due to poor health and long hours at a menial job.
But let's see how physical strength can be helpful in a place like... hmmm, a third world shithole? If you're the biggest most muscular man on the block, definitely an advantage for surviving your shitty town. However, no amount of muscle will save you from a bullet to the head or a knife slicing through your throat. In the current modern era of guns, your physical strength isn't really much of an advantage. To survive gang warfare, you need to have a strategic mind, make diplomatic relationships with people who will help you the most, and a good amount of luck that you won't get mauled down in a random hit and run.
>>5416599
A neurotic.
>>5416578
>>5416578
I AM a scientist, dumbfuck. Microbiologist.
My point all along is that femininity is a series of survival traits for the weak, and I don't understand why in the hell someone would rather be weak, than become strong.
Literal degeneracy.
And having a healthy, capable body is part of being strong. Your body is important. Obviously.
Strength isn't some meaningless preference, it is literally the backbone of life itself, and the ONLY thing that keeps your molecules yours, instead of something else's.
Reality is scary as fuck, maybe you need a sharp dose of it.
>>5416641
>femininity is a series of survival traits for the weak
Can you explain what your precise reasoning for this is? I see femininity as just being an alternative set of personality traits and social norms.
>>5416641
You must not be a very good biologist since by your arguments you would ignore any importance, significance or reproductive success of anything but an apex predator
>>5416530
strength has changed, and you have been left behind.
or maybe it never has, but nobody was smart before.
>>5416637
Had to look that one up. Wow, that sent a chill through my chest
>>5416652
Yeah, no smart people came up with agriculture, or writing, or buildings. Fucking jocks, you are only good for wank fodder.
>>5416672
i don't think you understand what i meant by "before"
>>5416641
Men say this, but then they actually want women to be feminine, and stay feminine. Women not being feminine, I'm sure you'd disapprove of that, right, anon?
>>5416677
Before what, jackass?
>>5416688
before humans
>jackass
rude
>>5416633
>Intellectual Strength
Probably one of the best assets to have to dominate in our modern world. You want to be one step ahead of everyone. However, there are different kinds of intelligence.
>Technical intelligence
You can be really really smart in a subject. But if you're really intelligent about say... a very worthless major, that that skill is really pointless.Having great ability to work with a profitable subject is what's desirable. But having a great amount of knowledge on a subject doesn't necessarily mean you'll own the world and gain all the applause. Take for example, Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs of Apple. Who's the renowned one? Who's the guy that everyone praises as a genius? Steve Wozniak was the guy who actually built the Mac OS and contributed a great deal of new discoveries for computer science. Steve Jobs is just the guy that shilled it.
>High IQ
In Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers", he examines the lives of people who are BORN with a ridiculously high IQ. Kids who can read Shakespeare and completely understand the context and language of his time. Kids who need to skip several grades ahead. Both boys and girls can be born with this power. But does high IQ guarantee success? No. It helps but not necessarily.
There are a lot of these kids who eventually grow up to become very intelligent adults who work at cashier jobs for minimum wage for the rest of their lives. Why? Because a lot of them, despite being very intelligent with a series of subjects, lack the ability to get their shit together, network with people who can help them, and end believing that they're superior (which is true but their gift fails to fruition) and refusing to get help while grumbling about how great their lives can be while working at their shitty ass job. They make bad decisions basically.
I envy anybody that never has to put up with women tbqh...
>>5416708
>Social Strength
Now this one is what I would consider the best kind of strength to have in our modern age.
If you have the ability to be the life of the party, the one everyone wants to talk to, the guy people want to hire, you win. That's it.
Being able to network with important people, being able to understand folks that they want to be your friend is a extremely valuable asset to have. Being able to befriend the guy who's gonna have your back, get you that job, give you that promotion? Absolutely valuable.
Automatically this skill also includes being social in situations where you'd be able to attract a girl or guy though your social abilities alone.
A big muscular guy who has no fucking clue how to do his resume to get at least score a decent white collar job is fucked. He's doomed to live a mediocre life of a lower middle class citizen. Not the kind of strength that I'd want personally.
>>5416681
I'm gay, a 5 on the Kinsey, and the only women I find even slightly attractive are the strong, masculine ones.
I fucking love The Dresden Files.
And no, that isn't a nonsequitor. Much.
>>5416651
Good job at completely misinterpreting my argument. Which is interesting, because my argument isn't hard to understand. You must be on the low end of the intelligence bell curve.
>>5416648
It IS a set of traits and norms, one developed around the reality of physically weaker and frailer female humans. Female humans got majorly cucked by evolution. Femininity helps keep the weak alive and relatively successful.
Better to be strong, if possible, because while society might care about helping the weak, nature never will.
TLDR:
Femininity gives a survival advantage to weaker individuals in societies; does fuck all outside of societies.
Masculinity is really just power with a thin layer of cultural frosting on top. If you are powerful, you are masculine.
>>5416641
so what would you do, if you met a bigger, stronger man who told you to bend over?
There's always someone better than you. Better to work with them than to try to fight them.
>>5416152
i'm very feminine with my female friends and it lets them see you as a peer and seducing them is much much easier. woman love fem men. relationship wise, they might prefer a strong masc dude that can take care of them and pay for their shoes.
>>5416758
the man who is stronger, is not the one with bigger muscles, but the one who is financially richer.
>>5416758
>It IS a set of traits and norms, one developed around the reality of physically weaker and frailer female humans. Female humans got majorly cucked by evolution. Femininity helps keep the weak alive and relatively successful.
>Better to be strong, if possible, because while society might care about helping the weak, nature never will.
>TLDR:
>Femininity gives a survival advantage to weaker individuals in societies; does fuck all outside of societies.
>Masculinity is really just power with a thin layer of cultural frosting on top. If you are powerful, you are masculine.
None of this is really an argument for why men shoudn't be feminine. You do realize that men who are weak do exist, right? So it would make sense for them to deal with being weak in the same way women do. Unless you think for some reason that men can overcome their weakness but women cannot. And saying that people shouldn't be femininity because femininity only has benefit in society is silly, because pretty much everything we do does occur in society. And although masculinity as you define it may be all about power, the way most people regard it has a lot to do with cultural norms. Like for example, why is wearing women's clothing unmanly? Sure, if someone else makes you do it, then it's a sign that you don't have power. But if a man crossdresses just because he prefers womens' clothing, how does that say anything about his power? If anything, I think it would be a demonstration of power and thus masculinity insofar as he is demonstrating that he is above social norms.
>>5416803
My problem with femininity is that weakness isn't something to aspire to. It's something to use if you have, but better to make it so you don't have to. Masculinity, in contrast, is a set of traits and norms for the relatively powerful.
And those cultural norms are just the frosting on the reality of power. I fucking hate to quote Voldemort, but it really is all about power.
Nothing happens unless it is made to happen.
Women's Rights, for example, would never be won without power. Women's Right were largely about women being powerful and capable, and not child-like people that need to be controlled and hand-held. The rest was about men not wanting to share power.
A cross-dresser can cross-dress, ye
>>5416850
Define femininity to us all.
I think your mistaking the negative aspects of feminine as a definition of what femininity is.
Like how people mistake "machismo" for masculinity
Can we get a woman in here to bluepill us on what it means to be feminine please
>>5416874
Not that person, but I'm pretty sure the individual variation between people is too high to really give a conclusive hard line definition on what masculine and feminine mean. I mean there's some obvious social behaviors that everyone will agree on, but a rigorous definition sounds implausible to me.
>>5416641
>strength is da basic core
I always thought adapting was the most important skill for survival. If you can't adapt, you'll die. Period.
>>5417072
The ability to adapt is a strength, yes.
Femininity is an adaptation for the weak; it helps keep them alive in a society.
>>5415634
I'll let Jim Jeffries take this one.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=74a_1354946848
>>5417153
But femininity is an adaption for survival in and of itself.
>>5417159
This show is called alcoholocaust
>>5417165
Exactly. It's useful when you can't be strong, but it isn't something to aspire to because femininity only provides strength in social situations. Outside of society, femininity doesn't do shit.
>>5417208
This reasoning makes zero sense. Nobody other than hermits in the middle of nowhere live outside of society.
>>5417153
>it helps keep them alive in a society.
Adapting to your environment to increase your chance of survival is a bad thing how?
>>5417208
Pretty much all adaptations are optimized for a specific environment. Desert creatures aren't well adapted to live underwater, in space, or in a jungle for example. And given that pretty much everyone lives in a society, it seems obvious that society is the environment we should adapt ourselves to.
>>5417214
>>5417214
>>5417218
>>5417228
>>5417228
And societies are a part of nature.
I should clarify, it's my fault for not being clear about this.
Femininity is a survival trait for interpersonal relationships, which are the basis of a society, femininity, however, is based around the individual being weak in the world outside of interpersonal relationships.
Which is why they need to act feminine in the first place.
>>5417282
>Femininity is a survival trait for interpersonal relationships, which are the basis of a society, femininity, however, is based around the individual being weak in the world outside of interpersonal relationships.
It doesn't seem to apply just to ROMANTIC interpersonal relationships though. Interpersonal relationships ARE essentially the environment we live in, so it makes sense to adapt to that.
>>5417303
>>5417303
Of course, remember though, that while femininity helps the weak in social situations, it still is not ideal. It does not make a person socially powerful, just less weak.
The vast majority of socially powerful people are masculine, because masculinity is power with some cultural frosting on top.
>>5417416
I guess it's a matter of perspective, but the stereotypical manipulative woman is feminine as hell to me and society is full of those.
>>5417554
Well they motivates men to do great things? Ouch.
>>5417554
>lol, is there anything good that femininity does for society as a whole? Feels like it does nothing but leech off of masculinity in order to survive.
Given that women produce the labor force needed for any society to function, you could just as easily say that men are leeching off of women.
>>5415634
>Gay men, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people can all choose their "role". It seems to me that queers can choose pretty freely how to act in relationships.
If you're a bottom or top only, it's less of a choice than you think. I have seen people here saying that topping is shit because it feels like making a ring shape from your index finger and thumb, lubing it up and fucking it.
>If you are born a straight guy or a girl, there is no freedom like that. There are exactly two roles, male and female, period. A straight guy has to be masculine alpha jerk or he's a beta failure. A straight girl must be submissive feminine slut or she's undesirable. Individual traits don't matter. Any attempt to break the mold means you might as well accept living alone for the rest of your life.
If you think like this, just get on fetlife, if you think like that and you won't be alone. Have you ever heard of stuff like femdom? There are many people who have fetishes for breaking out of those roles, so I think it's totally the same for straights
Fascinating
>queer culture
>that retarded mentality
I do OP.
I always believed gay guys to be more "free" then straight guys.
I've also never encountered any male who was openly bisexual. Is that even a thing, a male bisexual?
>>5418277
There's much to lose by being openly bi. Stereotype and stuff. Better to appear gay/straight when appropriate.
>>5416076
>This is apparently how men express "femininity" - by whining, wearing dresses and sucking dick
>implying that's not what the modern woman is doing, anyway.
>>5418277
It's a thing, don't be an imbecile. But it doesn't get brought up much. Bisexuals typically aren't faaabulous so people just assume we're straight, or if they have reason to believe otherwise then they assume we're gay. Even though I'm "openly" bi in the sense that I don't try to hide it, it's rare that I have a reason to bring it up - most of my acquaintances have no idea. Plus a lot of bixexual guys are probably in the closet, since it's a lot comfier in there for us than it is for homofags.
