It is sad how deluded LGBT people are about Islam.
If you talk about Muslim homophobia to leftwing LGBT people they will frown and claim that it is hate speech to say Muslims are homophobic. If you talk about LGBT issues to Muslims then they will openly admit that they hate gays. They don't try and hide the fact, they are proud of hating gays.
Why do queers of all types fall over themselves to defend people who literally want to kill them?
>>6379796
The Quran is explicitly homophobic as are the majority of all Muslims. This is an undisputed fact.
The story of Lot from the Bible, is also found in the Quran, it is retold with a few differences and in the Quranic rendition the destruction of Sodom is specifically to the homosexual activities of its inhabitants. When discussing this Muhammad himself said,
>“If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.”
The idea that Homosexuality should be punished by death is a central commandment direct from Mohammad.
Islamic Sharia law is extracted from both the Quran and Muhammad's Sunnah (found in the Hadith and Sira). Islamic jurisprudence are expansion of the laws contained within them by Islamic jurists. Therefore, they are seen as the laws of Allah.
You need only look to the rulings under Sharia to see the accepted mainstream interpretation of Islam and its commandments to its followers. Homosexuality under this law, is not only a sin, but a punishable crime against God.
This is not a minority belief held by a small group of extremists, the overwhelming majority of Muslims support Sharia Law. There are 1.62 billion Muslims, of these 1.1 billion believe that Sharia law should rule.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
>>6379805
This isn't a belief that only primitive third world Muslims hold either, the overwhelming majority of educated Western raised Muslims are also homophobic bigots.
100% of British Muslims find homosexuality morally unacceptable.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality
25% of British Muslims want the UK to be run under Sharia law (which specifies the death penalty for homosexuality).
50% of British Muslims want homosexuality to be made illegal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532355/More-half-Muslims-want-gay-sex-outlawed-nearly-quarter-support-areas-UK-run-sharia-law.html
Why are so many LGBT people OK with this?
>>6379837
>Daily Mail
>500 muslims were asked in the Guardian article
Nice sample size there. I know a whole bunch of Muslim families and they have no problem with homosexuality.
They're basically the same as any other British family, the only way I remember they're muslims is because they wear hijabs and they pray daily. If you ever ask them why they do it, they just tell you it's traditional in their family.
You know when you meet a Jewish family and you find they're not really that different or interesting, they just do something different at Christmas and have some weird talismans in their house. It's literally like that. Most people are religious because of family tradition, they don't even think about contradictions in the Quran with their daily life and if you point it out they go "Oh yeah, I guess it is" and then forget all about it.
Most people just aren't opinionated enough to care about what other people are doing with their lives. There are gay muslims too, you know.
>>6380329
You must be the same poster from the other threads. Is it tiring doing that much damage control?
>>6380329
Dude you can't complain about sample size and then use an anecdote. That's just stupid.
>>6380343
I haven't posted anywhere else about this but w/e, we all know there are extremists but that doesn't mean you can start throwing 100%s around like it means something.
>>6380350
It's true though. 100% is wrong, it's just wrong flat-out.
>>6380329
>I know a whole bunch of Muslim families and they have no problem with homosexuality.
You claim a The Gallup poll is insufficient evidence but that you know 'lots of Muslims' who are fine with Homosexuality.
Cool.
Then you should have no problem proving this. Name all the Mosque's in the UK which support gay rights.
>>6379796
>Why do queers of all types fall over themselves to defend people who literally want to kill them?
Media attention.
Actually falling for liberal lies.
Not wanting to be the outsider.
Frankly if even the upperclass privileged white cishet scum needs to watch what it says in order to not get lynched both IRL and on the internet, what can you expect from some voiceless minority whose primary function is acting like some fabulous pet?
>>6380377
>Then you should have no problem proving this. Name all the Mosque's in the UK which support gay rights.
That's not the same thing at all though, you're moving goalposts.
>>6380329
yeah dead gay muslims.shrillarys plan of allowing millions of muslims to come over here are first generation,koran washed extremists that are going to start making detroit look like a paradise.
and first ones they start with are gonna be you guys.if you are british,brexit.
>>6380434
>That's not the same thing at all though, you're moving goalposts.
You have been shitposting in every /lgbt/ thread claiming that Muslims are not homophobic bigots.
Despite the fact that the Quran is homophobic and every poll taken shows that Muslims are overwhelmingly homophobic as well.
All we ask is you show some proof of your claims. Not unsubstantiated anecdote, actual real proof.
Gunman was a Security guard who owned his weapons legally and he shot up the club while the police did nothing. sounds like a lot of things liberals should be against.
No one is for ISIS or is against taking care of extremist. They just see that the people who are most against them and making the laws against them are right wing Christian nut cases who have pull in an entire party. Face the facts for the most part the Muslims in america are passive. The vetting process is actually pretty good but right wingers wont let them do anything like prevent them from buying guns. I hate some pussy liberals too but im not a fucking retard who cant tell and enemy from just being racist. Muslims in shitty countries are the same as dumb ass conservative brainwashed Christians, the have no idea what their book actually says and will act on the voice of the worst and most emotional acting out until they get their way.
>>6380434
Not quite. sounds like a reasonable request.
>>6380500
>Muslims in shitty countries are the same as dumb ass conservative brainwashed Christians, the have no idea what their book actually says
The book says,
>“If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.”
The idea that Homosexuality should be punished by death is a central commandment direct from Mohammad.
>>6380530
"their book says" and "the book says" are both gramatically valid
I don't care at all about religion or politics. I just want to have fun with some hot guys. Is that so much to ask? Do we have to get dragged into picking sides and hating people?
>>6380496
>You have been shitposting in every /lgbt/ thread claiming that Muslims are not homophobic bigots
Do you ever consider that you're not in the right all the time and actually lots of people think you're retarded? Stop claiming samefag when people reject your childish extreme idiologies, of course more than one person is going to call you out, you're a bigoted idiot posting on the /lgbt/ board.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/founder-of-europe-s-first-lgbt-friendly-mosque-says-being-gay-and-muslim-is-like-deciding-which-arm-a6905521.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Muslims
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36517434
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/feb/15/islam-gay-teacher-muslim-school-birmingham
http://www.mpvusa.org/lgbtqi-resources/
http://islamandhomosexuality.com/organizations/
I can keep going
Yes gay muslims exist what a shocker, people are pretty much the same wherever you go wow cannot believe it
>>6380734
Yes, yes you do.
Cultures on the rise are simple and uncompromising. Cultures in decline are open, complex and generally permissive.
These few decades since the late 60s where diversity is tolerated have been the crest of a wave, the West and it's allies can either enforce this as a culture that is rising or let it be a symptom of a culture that has grown decadent.
At least that's the theory backed by history, i'm not sure and i'd love to hear different interpretations.
Anything someone believes has to be taken seriously when they are holding a gun to your head, violence is the short cut to credibility for the questionable.
>>6379796
>It is sad how deluded LGBT people are about Islam
If you talk about Muslim homophobia to leftwing LGBT...
>leftwing
It's sad how deluded /pol/tards are. Literally every viewpoint you guys espouse has to involve gross generalizations. In whatever alternate universe you live in, LGBT people are just lining up to throw open the borders and welcome indiscriminate waves of Muslims into every non-Middle Eastern country. At least, that's what you seem to glean from us when we say "Keep the government out of my fucking business."
Exactly what type of action or legislation are you guys pushing for? It sounds like you want to live in some kind of Orwellian shithole where your government mandates specific ideologies and bans anything deemed "degenerate" - or whatever buzzword you guys use to pigeon-hole everything you disagree with.
I don't endorse Islam, nor any other religious belief. Just because I don't want to live in a society that fucking mandates what people can and cannot believe - like you apparently do - doesn't mean I by virtue want to endorse Islam or any other set of beliefs.
>>6380817
>It's sad how deluded /pol/tards are. Literally every viewpoint you guys espouse has to involve gross generalizations.
This is true and about half of them are just trolling and enjoying being extreme.
>I don't endorse Islam, nor any other religious belief. Just because I don't want to live in a society that fucking mandates what people can and cannot believe - like you apparently do - doesn't mean I by virtue want to endorse Islam or any other set of beliefs.
Your common sense and decency can be thwarted by divisive violence in a heartbeat.
>>6380837
>If you don't hurry and join us in the uprising, the evil Muslim / librul / SJW boogeyman is going to topple modern civilization!
So your reply is another retarded /pol/ dichotomy. Thanks for contributing.
>>6380803
>These few decades since the late 60s where diversity is tolerated have been the crest of a wave, the West and it's allies can either enforce this as a culture that is rising or let it be a symptom of a culture that has grown decadent.
That's not what I see. Society has just become more and more equal and more and more tolerant - every next generation is brought up with the standards of the last and so it continues.
>>6380803
As much as I love the cock, I'd renounce it immediately if I had a gun held to my head. I'd sooner return to the closet and see the gay scene go back underground than commit any violence on its behalf. Sex isn't something worth dying or killing over.
>>6380769
>I can keep going
Please do so. You seem to be confusing LGBT people who happen to be Muslim with Muslim acceptance of LGBT people.
There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. OF COURSE some of them are LGBT. But that doesn't mean that there is any acceptance of LGBT people within the Muslim community.
In the link to the BBC documentary they contacted 200 Muslims who claimed to be gay or lesbian. Only a few people agreed to be interviewed and all but one of these did so in disguise because they were terrified of being murdered by Muslims.
>>6380881
Not really.
Rome was equal and tolerant before it fell to outsiders. Many cultures have risen and fallen. The 'progressive' view of history is only true if you look at the Enlightenment and ignore everything else.
Patriarchal cultures have higher birth rates and less tolerance than more sophisticated cultures. This means when they mix the patriarchal culture will dominate and eventually replace the more sophisticated one.
Look at the West.
LGBT people are lining up to defend Muslims who openly want to kill them and both groups will eventually get what they want. Gays will get a society which respects Islam and is free of Islamophobia and Muslims will get a society where every gay is dead or in the closet.
Traditonal Islam is homophobic but that doesn't mean that we should deport them all, as not only is it impratical but it would be really bad. Also you're much more likely to get killed by a white Christian than you are to get killed by a Muslim but nobody is proposing to send all the Christians to Uganda or some shit because that's fucking stupid.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_people
>>6380962
>LGBT people are lining up to defend Muslims who openly want to kill them...
>A few tumblrtards somehow represent the collective interests of all LGBT people everywhere, because generalizations are inherently logical in any way
Please kill yourself.
>>6380989
eh, he should've said, "the left, of which most of LGBT considers itself to be, are lining up to defend Muslims..."
A quick Q&A with my straight muslim friend about homosexuality:
Me
>Him
You're not a homophobic muslim are you?
>No, of course not. You know that. Is this because of the shooting in America?
Sort of, and I know, I'm just doing a thing for someone on the net who doesn't understand. What would you say to someone who thinks all muslims are homophobic?
>They're not
What if they were to use a line from the Qu'ran to prove that Islam is homophobic?
>People interpret it in loads of different ways, it depends on the person
What if the line itself is pretty cohesive and definite about being anti-gay?
>It doesn't really matter, it's the same as the bible, there are loads of parts which nobody follows, not even priests. Everyone just interprets it as they want and conveniently skims over the bits they don't agree with, we all know it's an ancient book.
Would these people be considered not proper muslims?
>No because nobody agrees on it anyway. ISIS get bits wrong all the time and omit various teachings all the time and they think of themselves as being devout Muslims.
Do you like all that chanting music that you hear in the ISIS videos?
>No lol, I like Drum n Bass
What if it was like a banging techstep remix or something?
>Is that person seriously asking this?
-END TRANSMISSION-
>>6381029
I think the association of LGBT with the left-wing is overblown, kind of like how Pride is taken as representative of most gay people - the most obnoxious examples end up getting the most attention and become the standard.
Sure, a lot of us got excited over marriage rights, but the average gay person isn't inherently interested in anything else leftist parties advocate. I'd say we're largely apolitical. There's always that one annoying activist in a group of fags that the others just wish would shut up.
>>6380985
>white Christian
>Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_people
>no muslim countries listed
>no asian countries listed
...and only single mention of christianity and the guy was obviously insane. And I'm not making an No True Scotsman argument... the lord told him to kill gays b/c his last name was "Gay" That's just unhinged. Also I keep hearing about how violently horrible Uganda is for LGBT but it isn't according to your source.
>>6380879
Yeah that's not what i said or meant.
The divisive nonsense that thwarts common sense is the call to hate on someone due to some atrocity, the public call to celebrate the execution of some tyrant or another, the push to hate and fear some group or ethnicity.
You seem to want to tell someone they're wrong.
>>6380962
>LGBT people are lining up to defend Muslims who openly want to kill them
We're only defending the decent ones. You can't judge all of them by the actions of extremists.
Nobody likes it when people call for a ban on guns in America when a lone wolf goes crazy, why would this be any different? You can't judge the masses by a few, it's just not sane, sensible or progressive.
>>6380903
>Sex isn't something worth dying or killing over.
Criminology stats say that money and sex are pretty much all people really kill each other over, the stranger that kills in cold blood or the feral robber are TV entertainment tropes and easy to report hot news stories.
>>6381133
>We're only defending the decent ones. You can't judge all of them by the actions of extremists.
I know decent Muslims and decent gun owners.
There are connections though, between people having lots of guns and people getting shot, 2000 to 2014, 166 mass shootings worldwide, 133 of them in the US, no connection at all? OK then.
Similarly, i've been to places where it's legal to kill Christians. There are mosques in New York, even after 9/11, but there have never been many Catholic churches in the Middle East at all.
It was an Iranian who explained to me that there's no racial violence where there are monocultures, and sadly it's true.
I'm not saying i know the solution. Just getting sick of being told there's no problem.
>>6381133
>We're only defending the decent ones. You can't judge all of them by the actions of extremists.
What extremism?
There are 1.62 billion Muslims and 1.1 billion of them believe that gays should be killed.
>b-but radical islam is just a dumb interpretation of what islam actually teaches
>not all muslims are radical
What a dumb fucking argument. If your teachings can be so readily "misinterpreted" like that then have you ever considered that the moderate view of Islam may be a "misinterpretation" too?
The possibility that Islam can be interpreted in such a way is exactly what makes it dangerous. Some people will inherently be dumb and as long as this stupid religion (and all others that have potentially dangerous teachings) are allowed to exist in society, then these acts of hate and discrimination are going to continue.
>>6381112
>Also I keep hearing about how violently horrible Uganda is for LGBT but it isn't according to your source.
That's because Uganda reports that there is no homosexuality there. Anyone who even looks a bit queer gets stamped into powder and it doesn't get reported. Therefore no violence against gays, simple.
Statistics need understanding and analysis.
>>6381185
>as long as this stupid religion (and all others that have potentially dangerous teachings) are allowed to exist in society
I've read Romans saying exactly this about Christianity. The Christians were blamed for a big fire in Rome and burning, crucified Christians lit up the road into Rome for miles and miles.
Blaming a group for political reasons, gruesomely wrecking them to appease social unrest and anxiety, you understand we're still only doing a polite version of human sacrifice to calm our fears, right?
>>6381171
That's such a bullshit number based on a scaled up figure from a small sample size. Are you seriously implying that 1.62 billion muslims have been questioned for this?
Even if it was 99.9% of muslims who were homophobic, it doesn't make any ounce of difference. The ones who aren't should always be defended, simple as that. No good peope deserve to be persecuted for the actions of others.
>>6381137
It's easy to confuse the way things are with the way things ought to be.
>>6381227
Good people don't get their morals from pedophile warlords.
>>6381247
No, they get them from <your favorite thing spun to make it sound terrible>. Infallible logic.
Seems like the apologists have gotten their strategies in order and are now deployed and in action.
>>6381215
Yes, I do understand that this is just a scaled down version of human sacrifice. But at the very fucking least, we should not pretend that the teachings of Islam themselves aren't a catalyst for this sort of shit to happen.
The classic rhetoric of "but this is not what Islam teaches. Islam is a religion of peace!!" is flawed fundamentally and people should learn to accept that. It may not be possible to do this without discriminating members of the religion but still, it must start somewhere as it did with Christianity.
>>6381215
It may not be possible to do this without discriminating members of the religion but still, it must start somewhere as it did with Christianity.
Do what? Start where? There's nothing to be done. I don't see what we're supposed to be doing about this.
Are you perchance claiming to be the head of some kind of movement? Are you affiliated with the UN? Please respond.
>>6381227
>That's such a bullshit number based on a scaled up figure from a small sample size. Are you seriously implying that 1.62 billion muslims have been questioned for this?
The survey involved a total of more than 38,000 face-to-face interviews. This is a good poll and considered gold standard in social science.
You can extrapolate the beliefs of all 1.6 billion Muslims from a poll this large and deep. And the conclusion is that 1.1 billion Muslims (the VAST MAJORITY) are bigots who want to kill gay people.
>>6381412
>are bigots who want to kill gay people.
Christians in Africa and South America are pretty hardline about this too.
Poor devout people of any stripe are generally hostile to anyone different from themselves. It works for them too, there's no arguing with them.
>>6381440
There are 1.62 billion Muslims, of these 1.1 billion believe that Sharia law should rule. In Sharia law homosexuality is a crime punishable by death.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
>>6381408
I wish I was the head of a movement or affiliated with the UN. Sadly I am but a fat neckbeard sitting behind the computer.
That isn't even refuting the points I made in the argument. You are probably asking what methods I think would bring about the the change in mentality. The answer is I have no fucking clue. I merely am suggesting that defending Islam is stupid as it is fundamentally flawed and acts as a catalyst for some acts and (in theory) society would be better off without it.
>>6381451
So you're basically admitting you didn't check your own source. You interpreted support of Sharia law as "Want to kill gays" and then completely missed this:
"Moreover, Muslims are not equally comfortable with all aspects of sharia: While most favor using religious law in family and property disputes, fewer support the application of severe punishments – such as whippings or cutting off hands – in criminal cases. The survey also shows that Muslims differ widely in how they interpret certain aspects of sharia, including whether divorce and family planning are morally acceptable."
Not only that, it was only conducted in 39 countries and none of them were Western Europe, Northern Asia or North America. You're using the beliefs of people in warzones to persecute people in the West.
That's like saying nobody in America should have guns because the overwhelming majority of gun owners in Iraq are murderers.
>>6381492
Daily Mail and a 500 person sample size. Next please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ
-
>>6379796
Because they're told to, and they obey, by their "alphas." Their highschool idols, their T.V. idols, their party idols. Same as how the Muslims follow what their idols tell them to do.
Personally I've never understood it. But then I was beating up my mom when I was a young child because she tried to hurt me, and have been beating bigger and cooler dudebros all my life, even though people didn't approve. Maybe I don't worship worthless people simply because I challenged their bullshit and came out on top. Maybe I would need to be a pussy to understand.
>>6381052
it is very hard to misinterpret that line
>>6379837
Opinions aside and whatnot, I'm finally happy that I can, for the first time, mathematically be sure that a fact you said was not right. There are 2.7 million muslims in the UK. If even one of them is okay with homosexuality, that 100% figure is wrong. I still agree with you, but I'm just happy I could sperg out.
>>6382406
Here's an interesting video that features gay-friendly British Muslims and even an imam that sanctions gay marriage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGLuEhAkpaI
I don't even care if Muslims don't like gay people, pretty sure most people here have a racist or homophobic family member they still love, they're entitled to their opinion.
Show me a 100% accurate survey that proves the majority of Western Muslims want to and plan on hurting gay people. I don't care if they think it's a sin, it's not my business what they believe in.
In a recent survey of British Muslims, guess what percentage of them said homosexuality was acceptable.
Go on and guess.
>>6383974
>Show me a 100% accurate survey that proves the majority of Western Muslims want to and plan on hurting gay people. I don't care if they think it's a sin, it's not my business what they believe in.
A radical Muslim wants to kill you a moderate Muslim wants a radical to kill you.
The vast majority of Nazi's did not want to harm Jews and did not plan to harm Jews. But their acceptance and support of the Nazi ideology is what allowed the violent ones to carry out their acts and allowed the holocaust to happen.
>>6384010
Holocaust did not happen.
Only surveys ITT are from British Muslims, here's an American source: http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/13/in-america-muslims-are-more-likely-to-su
The article text spins things quite a bit, but it's the numbers that matter. Muslims' support for gay marriage in the US is higher than Mormons' or Jehova's Witnesses', lower than Catholics' and on par with the average Protestant.
>>6379837
191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
>>6379796
who cares? I hate the idiots in the community, I ignore them. Nice and easy.
>>6384007
Wasn't it 52% with most of the homophobes being over the age of 35? The younger ones were increasingly tolerant all the way down to age 18 where the survey had its minimum age. Thankfully that's only about a million which is pretty small.
>>6384056
> The younger ones were increasingly tolerant all the way down to age 18 where the survey had its minimum age.
It's actually the exact opposite.
In normal Western society the younger generation is less religious and more progressive than their conservative elders, the exact opposite is happening in Islamic society, the younger generation is less tolerant and more religious than their elders.
In a poll of 1,000 British Muslims, weighted to represent the population across the UK, they found that a growing minority of youngsters felt they had less in common with non-Muslims than their parents did.
If a Muslim converts to another religion, 36 per cent of 16-to-24-year-olds thought this should be punished by death, compared with 19 per cent of 55s and over.
The report by Miss Mirza, British-born daughter of Muslim Pakistani immigrants, concludes that some Muslim groups have exaggerated the problems of "Islamophobic" sentiment among non-Muslim Britons, which has fuelled a sense of victimhood.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-432075/Multiculturalism-drives-young-Muslims-shun-British-values.html
The Muslim situation in the UK is a timebomb.
Only 5% of the UK is currently Muslim but around 10% of British children are Muslim, by 2050 10% of the UK will be Muslim. The Muslim population is growing much faster than everyone else and it is becoming more radical.
No seriously guy's it's Christianity and white people that are to blame. Muslims are pretty cool guys. You should invite more to your countries.
>>6384071
You're quoting from the same survey I am, but you're looking at the Daily Mail's interpretation instead of the one from Trevor Philips himself.
>Using The Daily Mail as a source
It's like you want people to laugh at you.
Also being put to death is for switching religions, not homosexuality.
It's not like any of this matters anyway, most of the US believes in an imaginary sky wizard that preaches war, hatred and homophobia. That doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater and condemn the whole nation as brutish neanderthals.
>>6384079
Christianity has always fought gay rights in the west. It's because the Influence of Christianity has been diminished that things are better for gays in the west.
>>6384281
Then by your logic things can only be better for gays with diminished Muslim influence. That can't happen if liberals continually divert criticism and blame away from Islam. If you blame Christianity for this and that then you must blame Islam as well considering they're plenty similar save for Islamic mindsets being a few centuries behind.
