Do commercial jetliners have MAWS? (Missle Apporch Warning System) If they dont do you think its resonable to install them?
>>29827544
Completely deserves a thread
While it HAS happened, it is EXTREEEEMELY unlikely that a commercial airliner would have any need of such a system. And how would it gain anything practical from such a system? It's too big to evade a missile and it doesn't have chaff...
>>29827544
No and No.
They may see it on the radar approaching.
A 747 is not dodging an AA missile. It's not taking any preventative evasive maneuvers either, and chaff is expensive to mount on everything for a threat that is extremely rare.
Very few airliners have been shot down, and the ones that have been shot down involved state actors, not snackbars.
As the bombing of a Russian plane showed, isis can sneak a bomb onto a plane easier than they probably can shoot one down.
The only time planes are super vulnerable is takeoff and landing, during which they realistically couldn't evade a MANPAD anyway
There has been mutliple incidents in the past even recently with Jets being shot down by MANPADS, SAMs, and Soviet fighters. Also spending the extra money on peoples safety isnt a bad idea
>>29827544
What fucking purpose would it serve?
It would just give them a countdown timer until they're fucked.
>>29827653
Kek
>>29827544
Only if flying near Russia or China
nb4 Iranian Air 655
>>29828259
Captain of that CG got a letter of commendation after that, IIRC...
>>29827653
pretty much this
Generally no, but a handful do. El Al equips some of their passenger jets with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Guard
>>29827605
>>29827618
>>29827653
>It's totally pointless since big jets can't dodge missiles
Countermeasures are more valuable than evasion anyways. It's still far from worthless in places where threats exist.
>>29828659
True, but how expensive are those countermeasures?
In Germany a plane was crashed by a pilot.
Isis blew up a plane with a coke can.
Malaysia lost two planes, one due to unknown cause, one to a ground based AA system.
Of the 4 major airline losses recently, one could have maybe benefited.
While I'm not doubting they could HELP, I question the cost effectiveness of doing that versus changing their routes to avoid those places.
>>29827544
>Do commercial jetliners have MAWS? (Missle Apporch Warning System)
No.
> If they dont do you think its resonable to install them?
No.
>>29827636
Not that many, compared to the total number of commercial flight hours per day.
And the ones that were could have been much more easily and effectively avoided by simply not flying through the war zone.
Why spend millions on a one-in-a-million warning system, when just paying attention to the daily news gives commercial airliners all the warning they need?
>>29827544
>MAWS is activating
>"ur fucked m8"
>>29828690
You wouldn't need to equip all of them, just ones flying over areas of conflict.
Might make people feel better at least.
>>29827544
In America? I am almost certain no.
Pretty sure the SOP is to scramble jet fighters in case a jet liner is in trouble. Which mean someone violated our air space or shot something long range that will probably miss, and war were declared.
>>29828925
Unfortunately I doubt Malaysia could have even PAID for those countermeasures, not to mention those corporate types hate the exchange of seats (which make money) for ECM pods or whatever (which cost weight, which costs money).
It's quite surprising that more aren't shot down honestly, given the wars in Africa, etc.
People don't fuck around when you steal an AA defense. In Iraq SAMs and MANPADS were the priority target, more so than anything else that didn't have "WMD" on the sticker for collection and disposal purposes.
>>29828621
as he should have
>>29827544
747s need some SEAD missiles.
In case of Buk emergency.
>>29827544
every prankster would try to find a way to trigger the system for the lols
>>29829470
...including half of /k/.
>>29829557
Which leads to the question
If jetliners had "you're fucked" alarms, how could we trigger them?
>>29829589
Model rocket with a heater in the nose?
>>29829589
Launch flares in the direction of the plane for IR MAWS, make a homemade radar and spike it for those which are also equipped with RWR. Or if you are a maintainer, just fucks with it.
>>29827544
No and no, a jet line isn't dodging a missile or hiding behind chaff and flares, the engine thermal emissions and radar signature of the aircraft is just to strong to be able to trick a targeting system.
>>29829589
They do have such a system, its called TCAS. I work in the industry and have enough knowledge to easily build something to really fuck with the industry. Its all public knowledge but people outside of the industry are generally not aware.
Thank fuck security through obscurity is working for us so far.
>>29828690
>While I'm not doubting they could HELP, I question the cost effectiveness of doing that versus changing their routes to avoid those places.
Changing the route isn't an option without cancelling it entirely. The points of greatest risk are when the aircraft is low on approach or departure, not enroute.
And even if it were an option, changing the route is something you'd have to do every flight (with a significant fuel cost for each time you do it), whereas firing countermeasures would only be occur when actually attacked or when triggered by false alarm (which amounts to but a small fraction of total flights). Even in this case, employing the countermeasures is the more inexpensive option.
>>29829589
Flight Guard is triggered by radar, so pretty much the only way is by physically launching something at the aircraft.
>>29830488
>Even in this case, employing the countermeasures is the more inexpensive option.
>chaff and flare
>it'snotveryeffective.jpg
>get raped by missile anyway
>>29827636
As someone who works on aircraft, you have no idea how expensive anything on an aircraft is. Inspection, maintenance and just flat out component failure is very expensive. When avionics components cost $250,000 a piece, you really don't need more shit
>>29827636
>Also spending the extra money on peoples safety isnt a bad idea
>>29828925
>Might make people feel better at least.
Anon, just admit you're a beta cuck who's afraid of flying. No need to also make yourself look like an idiot inventing bullshit excuses.
>>29830509
Just what makes you think countermeasures "aren't very effective" against decrepit terrorist-held MANPADS?
>>29830097
>They do have such a system, its called TCAS. I work in the industry and have enough knowledge to easily build something to really fuck with the industry
Explain
>>29831123
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_system
Generate and transmit data from the ground that will trick aircraft to make them think another plane is on a collision course with them.
You would force the pilot to take evasive action and in general fuck with air traffic control.
If someone did this outside a major airport they could cause all sorts of fuckery. Thankfully the broader public and those who like to cause problems seems to remain unaware of how vulnerable everything like this is.
Its all public information as it is mandated by international standards which are dictated by ICAO.
>>29831222
I feel I should add, though it should go without saying.
Anyone that did make such a system and use it to interfere with air traffic would be looking at serious jail time.
>>29830097
would that kind of system be like MANPADS, or would it be on a drone?
seems neat, no fucking way in hell am I gonna do it, but cool concept.
what about something like die hard 2 - spoofing the altitude of an aircraft?
granted in that movie they used the tower from the radio, but I imagine that you could do it though other means.
>>29831357
Die Hard 2 makes me rage, what they say they did in the movie is physically impossible due to the way the glide path system in the ILS works.
All such a system would be, is a laptop and a radio transceiver. You would just be receiving an ADSB packet, working out where to say your fake aircraft is to cause a TCAS RA from the intended target, then transmitting a data packet with the bogus data.
Which if done on a rainy day, is at a large busy airport will cause all sorts of fuckery in the systems. Though we do have interference locating equipment so you wouldn't want to do it without moving for longer then 30 minutes or so.
>>29828259
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents
>nb4 Iranian Air 655
As if it doesn't count.
>>29829589
Spark-gap generators
Radar guns that cops use in speed traps (insert story of cop in UK setting off a Harrier's Auto-SEAD system by accidentally point radar gun at it)
Laser designators of sufficient power output. (Think of the ones Javelin MANPADS use)
Most of which you can make at home or acquire less-than-legal parts for online, even if it is kinda pricey
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/27/israel-to-outfit-passenger-planes-with-laser-anti-missile-defense-system/
Installed on Arkia 757's and Israir Airbus 320s
