South China Sea
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Well I don't know how much you all have heard about this area, but it seems to be definitely heating up. I myself have just recently began looking into it. I have no knowledge whatsoever about naval warfare or how air warfare would go between powerful nations. I have an idea of what I think would happen but not sure how it'd actually go. If you could offer some books or videos of how it'd be expected to go then please do. I assume it will be WW2 strategies with extreme tech? Still not too familiar with that so please give suggestions
As I said, I've only been eyeing this topic for the last couple of weeks and am interested more and more. Anyone who has been watching it for a long time please give me a better idea of what is going on. I am talking, how many islands each country has/is setting up. Maps of bases and where ships are being held. I intend to try to figure that out on my own if no one can offer that. I used to go to /pol/ but now I rarely even open the chans. I don't know any avenue to even go into with this because well no one offline even knows about this past the one island china is building.
Thanks in advance, should I link dump the very recent stuff I know about(the two weeks I've been on-off researching this)
I will start it and when I finish the link dump only post if no one objects to it
>Pics related in a sense that it is ships, this is a random "Naval fleet" pic from google
Threads start at the end of the list? What is this!?
>Tension Spikes In South China Sea After Vietnam Seizes Chinese Ship
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tension-spikes-south-china-sea-190552031.html
>Navy admiral warns of growing sense that ‘might makes right’ in Southeast Asia
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/03/16/navy-admiral-in-southeast-asia-a-belief-that-might-makes-right-has-returned/
>South China Sea: Australia involved in Balikatan war games amid warnings
http://www.baka.com.au/world/south-china-sea-australia-involved-in-balikatan-war-games-under-chinas-nose-20160405-gnyplf.html
>Patrolling Disputed Waters, U.S. and China Jockey for Dominance
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/31/world/asia/south-china-sea-us-navy.html?_r=0
>U.S. plans third patrol near disputed South China Sea islands: source
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-usa-idUSKCN0WZ018
That is pretty much all of the important stuff that I've read
>>29502234
>Maps of bases and where ships are being held
Laughable. The former being able to be found but ultimately pointless, the latter being nearly impossible.
USS Ronald Reaganfag here. China is always stirring shit about the paracels, but we're more worried about best Korea going full retard.
>>29502515
Ah I see, I saw some pictures before that had some ship placements but I can definitely see how it would be difficult/impossible to do it without having all the equipment
>>29502542
I see, this stuff has interested me quite a bit in the last few weeks just seeing how it seems to be playing out up to this point. I think China would be afraid to attack the United States, but I could not say, they seem to be very very aggressive there.
Do either of you know any good documentaries? I am planning on just going to the History channel
>>29502586
>I saw some pictures before that had some ship placements but I can definitely see how it would be difficult/impossible to do it without having all the equipment
Ships are by default always on the move. Sure, they might get laid up for SLEP's or general repairs but those are generally kept in reserve, active ships can be anywhere.
>>29502542
isnt china worried too?
I mean they got millions of possible refugees if something does happen, the last thing china needs is MORE mouths to feed and look after.
Not to mention their buffer zone would most likely disappear and they'll have another US allied nation on their ass.
No habbening where I was hoping for one :(
I was in a SEA Navy doing work related to SCS shens
Ask me questions and I may answer
>>29502939
Did you have to live in a 60 year old shack built over a square meter "island" while half surviving on fish and shitting in the ocean?
>>29502542
Best Korea isn't anywhere near the South China Sea.
>>29502948
No, thankfully I'm not Filipino.
There's a funny guy with a radio set on his boat who would broadcast on the navigation channel: "Filipino monkeyyyy, Filipino monkey, ooh ooh ahh ahh"
It was always keks to hear that
>>29502939
>>29502948
is this where you live ?
>>29503081
Is'nt this /k/land?
>>29503081
No that looks bad
The most 'hardship' I really had outside of training was someone drinking all my milk I brought for my cereal
>>29503098
Indo navy?
>>29503190
No. Indonesian Navy are good people, and their Customs and Border Security are nice and violent. They like to sandwich suspected sea robbers and jump aboard to beat them
>>29503259
PLAN?
Of just...you know, tell us.
>>29502937
Japan isn't part of the SCS dispute.
>>29503274
>China
>SEA
The Chinese are very professional, or at least very well drilled-they march double quick time in formation while aboard ship. Their English leaves a lot to be desired though, even among officers
>>29503328
>singapork
MALASYA WILL RULE THE SEA SINGAPORK FAT DUMB STUPID
>>29503328
What you think about viet navy
>>29503372
Can you send me some satay please, I haven't had any in years
>>29503400
They're fine I guess, out of all the navies in the region they're the one I've interacted with least both in person and at sea.
I loved Saigon though, pic related
>>29503407
Its just an old maymay from 08-09.
IDK what satay is...
>>29503429
Malaysian kebab
Superior to regular Arab kebab
The Malaysian navy likes to go comms dark and pitch up awnings on deck and go fishing instead of conducting their soverignty patrols
There's a patrol craft that's solely crewed by ethnic Chinese(an interesting bit of segregation) that gives us no end of trouble-they take their directives very seriously
>>29503328
You do any training with the LCS I mean FF detachment?
>>29503429
Satay's fucking delicious m8.
Tender BBQ meat on a stick with sweet and spicy dip.
>mfw I took Singaporean food for granted for so many years, and now I'm stuck in fucking Ottawa
>>29503787
Yes, I was involved in the setup for LCS ops in my small way, however I left soon after Freedom became a semi-permanent fixture at base
Interesting camouflage
I am in Ontario too. For some reason it's snowing
The PLAN are pretty cool guys:
>Suddenly, the radio crackled again as the frigate responded in Chinese: “U.S. Warship 62, this is Chinese Warship 575. Today’s weather is great. It is a pleasure to meet you at sea.”
>Ensign Li responded, also in Chinese: “This is U.S. Warship 62. The weather is indeed great. It is a pleasure to meet you, too, over.”
>Preliminaries dispensed with, the Chinese ship got down to business, switching to English. “How long have you been since departing from your home port? Over.”
>Captain Renshaw was immediately shaking his head. “No, we’re not answering that. I would never ask him that.”
>Ensign Giancana picked up the radio again. “Chinese Warship 575, this is U.S. Navy Warship 62. We do not talk about our schedules. But we are enjoying our time at sea, over.”
>And on it went as the two warships, each loaded with missiles, torpedoes and heavy artillery, confronted each other with an exchange of weather pleasantries at sea. Testing whether the Chinese were openly following, the Chancellorsville made a turn, and its officers stood back and waited.
>>29502965
>There's a funny guy with a radio set on his boat who would broadcast on the navigation channel: "Filipino monkeyyyy, Filipino monkey, ooh ooh ahh ahh"
Holy shit, my sides! Who does this and why?
>>29503892
>A shout came from another one of Captain Renshaw’s junior officers: “He just turned, sir!” The Chancellorsville now had a tail. But for how long?
>Apparently the Chinese ship wanted an answer to that question as well.
>“U.S. Navy Warship 62, this is Chinese Navy Warship 575,” came a new message. “Do you continue to have long-term voyage at sea? Over.”
>Another no-no. Telling the Chinese the intended duration of the trip could be an inherent acknowledgment that they had the right to know, Captain Renshaw said. And that is not considered freedom of navigation.
>“This is U.S. Navy Warship 62,” Captain Renshaw responded. “Roger, all of our voyages are short because we enjoy our time at sea no matter how long we are away from home. Over.”
>As it happened, the Chinese ship had a ready answer for that.
>“U.S. Navy Warship 62, this is Chinese Navy Warship 575,” came the reply. “Copy that I will be staying along with you for the following days. Over.”
>That was Tuesday. On Wednesday, the Chinese frigate was replaced by a destroyer, which followed the Navy warship until midnight Thursday, when the American vessel exited the South China Sea.
>>29503872
Oh, what a coincidence! My condolences about Toronto. Here in Ottawa it's bright and sunny, although we're supposed to get """"""""""""""snow""""""""""""""" in the next couple days.
>Yes, I was involved in the setup for LCS ops in my small way, however I left soon after Freedom became a semi-permanent fixture at base
Interesting. Come to think of it, I never bothered to check if the USN held any civilian open-house days for Freedom before I left.
>>29503892
They finally learnt that shouting in broken English makes you look like an idiot.
>>29503284
They're an American ally, so by us getting involved they too are involved.
>>29503284
>>29503984
Moreover, Japan IS a first party to the East China Sea dispute, which involves essentially the same issue of Chinese expansionism.
>>29503892
>>29503902
A E S T H E T I C
E
S
T
H
E
T
I
C
Some time in 2013 the Indians sent a warship group to the SCS, which if I remember correctly was a Rajput, a Shivalik, a Kamorta, and a supply ship
Soon after the Chinese sent a similar group to the Indian Ocean, except quite a bit larger, with a Luyang, a Luda, some frigate I don't remember, and a large oiler
China #1 India #2
>>29503898
I don't know why, but it was very funny, my theory is that it was a bored fisherman, but my supervisor thought it was Malaysian Coast Guard. We weren't allowed to triangulate and my CO got pissy whenever he started broadcasting and we started playing it over the speakers
>>29503928
It's okay, I only nearly died twice in an accident on Sunday
They did have an open house in 2013. I wanted to go, but on that day I was booking out in the morning and decided that I'd rather go home and sleep-didn't have civi on me
American sailors returning from liberty caused some problems, they liked to urinate on our trees, and when I was on base duty I drew the short straw and they sent me alone to go chase them away-the prowlers were conveniently absent
>>29504037
>the Indians sent a warship group to the SCS
Was the designated shitting deck full by the time they got back?
But seriously though does anyone have that article about a USN Officer on board an Indian warship?
>>29504078
I think that story was actually fake
When we had Indian warships in the officers would head out into town and buy the most inane shit to bring back to India. I saw one of them bring back fucking mattresses. They would try to talk to us but the unwritten rule for junior ranks and foreign military was just to pretend they don't exist.
This was in 12/13, so before the designated shitting meme
Apparently they don't even get meat or cheese every day, only on wednesdays or something-meanwhile I would complain about soy milk for my cereal
>>29504037
>It's okay, I only nearly died twice in an accident on Sunday
This was my first winter, so I understand that feeling. I fishtailed and drove up onto a sidewalk once, and I had to slide to a halt at a downhill red light once.
>American sailors returning from liberty caused some problems, they liked to urinate on our trees, and when I was on base duty I drew the short straw and they sent me alone to go chase them away
o kek
>>29504187
I've been here 2+ years, last year had a lot more snow but it was done earlier, this year is more unseasonable
>>29504307
pls dont mistreat your cute philippine maid like those evil ppl in hongkong and taiwan.
>>29504444
I wish they would go back and leave us in peace
RRGuy here again. I'll be on for the rest of the night. Pic is where I used to work. No, I was nowhere near Fukushima.
>>29502586
Can't say I know of any, but documentaries aren't really my thing.
>>29502642
The problem has been China from the start. NK acts as a cat's paw to buffer SK/JP and the US against the Chinese mainland. There's no route to begin any land operations in China that isn't a political shitstorm, and NK is closest to the most US allies. China knows NK is a failed state, but so long as they keep good and crazy, with plenty of nuclear material, the US won't attempt to 'liberate' it. Plus, any move the US makes against NK is carte blanche for China to slaughter any of their political opponents in the region via puppet juntas and the like.
>>29502955
No, but it does take attention away from all the navies that give a shit about it. See above.
You know, with the tremendous steel industry in China and the economic slowdown they're having, I'm actually surprised they're not building more ships.
They seem to be focusing on Type 22 missile boats at the moment, but if they ever discover quality control, and learn the basics of keeping aircraft carriers, I can not see how they would not be a seriously dominant naval force.
>>29504485
Should be hold your load. Or take your load. It needs to be a double entendre.
>>29505496
China isnt building 022 FACs anymore, but mass amounts of 056A corvettes (40 in 3 years), as well as coninue to churn out 054A FFGs and 052D DDGs.
Their second aircraft carrier is also progressing fast and could be launched beginning next year.
>>29505519
>my load
>in anything related to the philippines
absolutely not
>>29505296
Do you use segways or is that just John C Stennis?
>>29504307
Oh yes, I'm aware it's been exceptionally mild. I plan to be out west by next winter too, so I don't know if I'll ever have the true Canadian experience.
>>29505735
S...Segways? FFFFFUUUUUU. Goddamn, are you shitting me? They really get Segways? You've gotta be shitting me.
Relevant.
PREASE REAVE IMMEDIATRY
>>29506321
Forgot link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zlU_syd__c
>>29506321
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaKbZW0pqkM
raw footage
>>29506375
how come they don't have a sound board for these things
how come he's writing it out instead of having some speech to text software
s m h
>>29502234
This is an excellent site anon, very educational and well researched. Start here: www.warisboring.com
>>29506073
is that the number of manned and operational hulls for best korea or is it just a bunch of corpses glued together in a shape of a boat?
>>29506576
DIS IS CHINESE NAVY PREASE REAVE
YOU GO
>>29506375
at 2:04, did someone start the "meow" game?
>>29506675
maybe a chinaman is eating a cat
>>29506073
>conveniently leave out all the US subs based in Hawaii, Bangor, etc, even though all the SSNs routinely operate on that side of the Pacific
>>29502234
Viets are getting in on the sand island action
>>29506723
This one looks quite a bit more quality work by Vietnam.
Unlike their other island reclaimations, that were BTFO by the seasonal typhoons. PIc related.
Like the Chinese, they seem to have used concrete walls to stop the waves from wrecking their new sand-beach this time around.
>>29503984
No. Japan's "reinterpretation" only allows for logisitical support if it's not near Japan, and they've made it abundantly clear they are no getting involved in the SCS.
>>29504035
It's both Chinese and Japanese expansionism. This has been an issue since 1945. It's just now China can hit back.
>>29505496
They are actually building faster now.
Type 55 destroyers just got laid down in two drydocks.
But there's only so much one can build. The docks and equipment and people take time to train and develop. The navy guys as well.
The Chinese will continue increasing their production, but even they know they may build too many "outdated" ships if they build too fast. China's whole problem is too much supply in a slow global economy.
>>29504139
I'm pretty confident it was confirmed a couple days after it happened. The guy posted proofs. No one would be that elaborate of a shitposter and then post proofs later.
>>29506321
You should hear some Americans speaking Chinese back...
>>29506706
>conveniently ignores the geography of the map
No Hawaii is not in the Asia-Pacific region as defined by the UN.
Also, bangor??
>>29506790
Yeah they finally upped their effort level.
What's most amazing is that ASEAN spends the same percent of GDP on defense as China (1.8-2.1%), but it's only $60 billion to China's $210 billion.
>>29506919
>No Hawaii is not in the Asia-Pacific region as defined by the UN.
Except that speaking in military terms, we consider which units regularly operate in an AO, which directly affect balance of power in a region. With nuclear powered submarines, the entire point is that they do not have to be based in the region to spend almost all their patrol time in that region. We're not talking about armored regiments here.
It's like saying USN CSGs don't affect the balance of power in the Middle East. It's retarded.
>>29506706
The map's creator is making one for mainland America and Hawaii.
How long until expanded SEATO?
>>29507140
Fine and well, but absolutely useless for determining actual force/presence levels in a given region.
>>29507269
It's just a Russian trying to still feel relevant in naval matters, or a Chicom trying to dick wave. Just let it go.
>>29507209
Never, the ASEAN nations either hate each other or is willing to throw the others under the bus for their own sakes
>>29505775
Well the flight deck is large
They also used little buggies
>>29503328
>Relevant in the motto
>needing to remind your men and government that you're not totally a waste of money
>>29509420
If we don't put relevant no one will give us any budget to play with
In the 1980s it was proposed that the Navy be replaced with a series of barges with HMGs on them
>>29509444
What a bunch of assholes. It's a goddamn island nation reliant on the safe and secure trade in the strait, no matter how far up their ass a politician has shoved his head it should still be possible to see why a navy might be useful.
>>29509518
No money back then tho
Now the problem is no manpower
>>29509565
Wait, they have high unemployment and a lack of manpower?
How the fuck does that happen?
>>29509711
What I meant was that during the 1970s and 1980s the small defence budget went mostly to the Air Force and the Army, as they were seen as being more effective as a deterrent and as a combatant should the need arise. When the country became more affluent in the 1990s and onwards, the issue then became the smaller population pool with less people willing to join the military long-term rather than pursue a civilian career-its still a major problem now and hamstrings capabilities even with a large emphasis on automation during the design and acquisition phase of major systems
Oh wow these are so bad, I guess that explains a lot
>>29503259
> and their Customs and Border Security are nice and violent. They like to sandwich suspected sea robbers and jump aboard to beat them
I wish the USCG did that...
>>29509737
i...i wouldnt mind working under her
This book has a pretty kick ass naval/air battle between the US and Chinese in the south China sea. I definitely recommend reading it.
The book is fiction and came out in 1998, but now, with all the stuff going on, it seems very probable.
>>29503898
Filipino monkey has been around since at least the 80s. It's common anywhere there at lots of ships (harder to pinpoint source). It's the pre-internet version of shitposting.
t. US Merchant Mariner
>Filipino monkey, Filipino banana...
>Indian I can't see you, but I can smell you...
>Maaaaariiiiiiioooooo
>Fuckyoufuckyoufuckyoufuckyou
>>29510075
>The book is fiction and came out in 1998, but now, with all the stuff going on, it seems very probable.
Tom Clancy builds his novels on hotspots. Either you're unfamiliar with Southeast asian or you're a fucking Child since the shit in SCS has been going on ever since WWII ended.
>>29504035
ECS is a stupider version of the South China Sea dispute.
Literally over fucking rocks. At least SCS has commercial value.
>>29507209
Expanded? That shit died.
>>29507692
ASEAN Nations today don't "hate" each other (Save for famous rivalries Burma/Thailand and Cambodia, Laos/Vietnam)
They hate the notion that a Military Alliance would bring Britain, Australia, the USA, and China and they're back in the age of colonialism again.
Add the existence of Chinese/US leaning countries in the regions (Philippines for the Fatties, Burma, Laos, Cambodia for the Chinks), the possibility of a SEATO is even deader.
Part of the reason why SEATO collapsed and only had Two SEAsian members out of, what, 10 Southeast Asian states? Was due to:
>Malaysia, Indonesia hates USA's guts for Israel and wont support USA's only ally, the Philippines.
>South Vietnam can't join or else the Reds would form their own red power-block.
>Indonesia dislikes the fact that Australia is in.
>Malaysia sees Britain's presence in the Alliance as Colonialism 2.0
>Cambodia, S. Vietnam, Laos, don't want France in.
>Burma wouldn't like any alliance where Thailand is in.
tl;dr SEATO failed due to Western Countries. Foreign policy in NATO countries in Southeast Asia failed to realize that even amongst the Non-Commies in SEA, the Southeast Asians saw two enemies: the communist East and the ex-colonial West. With the exception of Thailand who can tolerate western presence (was never colonialized by whites) and the Philippines, due to it's Pro-US stance and being pretty much a heavily westernized country.
So when it collapsed, the SEAsians formed the next best thing: an economic league.
>>29507325
>>29507269
It's just a guy making a basic infographic based on a submarine's homeport and he presumably restricted it to geographical regions for ease of creation.
I thought it would be neat to share seeing as your layman wouldn't be able to tell how many submarines South Korea or Malaysia had.
One shouldn't really try to infer much from it beyond this country has this X class in Y amounts based in Z. Let alone qualitative and patrol regions.
>>29510645
So, fine for laymen even though it is completely misleading when viewed by a layman?
Stop making shitty infographics, anon. It's not like it would be that difficult to include US assets into the mix, and would have the benefit of presenting an actually useful and accurate picture.
>>29510657
How is it completely misleading? It details how many subs a country has that's all.
I also didn't make it. I grabbed it from /k/ during a sub thread.
>>29506608
This angers me. An object like that has survived thousands of years of history. Its profoundly sad that this one person (group) made the choice to destroy it.
Thousands if not more people may have looked upon such objects and known it was somehow wrong to destroy with such a thing. To destroy a people's history is worse than to kill them. It is to rob them of their very existence.
>>29505673
>40ships in 3 years
thats a lot
>>29506896
It was orginally a reddit story and he was called out by a confirmed USN officer that pointed out a few major problems with his story.
It fake, but won't stop the memes.
>>29505673
That carrier is an absolutely terrible design though. Its full fucking retard, i could go on forever about how bad it fucking is.
I get the lioning, i do. But baseing a clean sheet class off today is stupid and pointless. Not only is it a disservice to todays PLAN, its a disservice to tommrows PLAN.
I got shit to do but ill be back in about 1-2 hours to respond to inevitable chicom criticism. That carrier design is the number one PLAN problem it has.
>>29510889
>That carrier is an absolutely terrible design though
the chinese carrier is an useful tool against SE Asia during peace time and pre war time politicaly
>>29511013
ONE achives this. The lioning did achive this.
Now they are building at least two subpar carriers that will be shitting around for about 50 years.
I'm going to try not to shitpost but as an American I don't understand why our foreign policy is so contentious against the PRC in 2016. We're trying to maintain the status quo, which is understandable but stupid and doesn't reflect the realities of the 21st century.
Every time we do this we drift further away from strong relations with the PRC and instead become friends with shithole nations. A sino/american alliance makes more sense than anything else politically.
Let china become the regional hegemony it wants, let it get stuck in a quagmire of resource wars with other asian powers.
We should pull back and let China loose on our half assed allies. Fuck Korea, fuck Japan, fuck Malaysia. We should consolidate power in the PRC and use them to hedge India.
>>29511311
You let china control the SEA and other areas around it you let china control more than 50% of the worlds naval commerce. That is completely unacceptable.
Then, in the future, you get to deal with a china and us showdown for superpower.
The reason the US chooses korea and japan over china is years of treaties and alliance. Both countries rely on the us, this is far preferable to a competitor.
Dont get it wrong though, both would be an immense help in conflict with china, especially japan.
>>29511311
>Fuck Korea
Korea(EaastChina peninsula) is eternal China's vassal state, no problem
>>29511396
Dont tell the south kroeans that. They hate china (slightly less than japan, of course), but america is their number 1 favorite foreign nation by a large margin, china does not even rate.
>>29511311
>I don't understand why our foreign policy is so contentious against the PRC in 2016
You could have stopped writing right there.
The rest of your post is just ignorant gibberish. What was the point of any of this?
>>29511311
>A sino/american alliance makes more sense than anything else politically.
for against Russia-India-Japan,taiwan-SeAsia and maybe Australia
>>29502542
>>29505296
Wow, Anon. Are we the same person?
>>29511407
>They hate china (slightly less than japan, of course)
Korea,Hisory of Vassal state, for 2000yrs, never against China with hostile bu they take the initiative to become as a vassal
>>29511474
Yes, historically korea has been a vassal, but today it is a vassal (for lack of a better term) to the us, not china, and the people by and in large love it.
>>29511482
>but today it is a vassal (for lack of a better term) to the China too
Yes
>>29510448
Holy shit, I remember Mario now
>>29511407
>america is korea's number 1 favorite foreign nation by a large margin
Are you serious?
>>29511491
(you)
>>29511509
>Are you serious?
Absolutely, south Koreans love the us, and are lukewarm to china.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/14/chapter-4-how-asians-view-each-other/
Hell, in event of war, any war, the south korean military wants the US to have operational control of their units.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/south-koreas-armed-forces-to-remain-fully-under-us-military-command/5410849
>>29511564
>Absolutely,yes
"South Korea navy officer 'Leaked to China' "
4th July 2015 by SkyNews
A South Korean navy officer has been arrested for allegedly leaking military secrets to China, a defense ministry spokesman says.
A lieutenant commander assigned to the Defense Security Command faces charges that he handed over classified information to suspected Chinese agent while he was studying in China from 2009 to 2012. He allegedly passed military materials to a university student in return for money.
>>29511619
So becuase some guy leaked info, in return for money, means SK is a vassal to china?
If SK was a vassal to china, would he not do it for free?
Hell, if SK was a vassal to china, would the government not give it up for free?
Weak anon, weak.
>>29511627
S.Korea:Yes
Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreement between China-S.Korea
S.Korea:No,THAAD Missiles cuz China ordered it
>>29511667
>Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreement between China-S.Korea
Things that never happened.
>S.Korea:No,THAAD Missiles cuz China ordered it
http://www.ibtimes.com/thaad-korean-peninsula-south-korea-us-formally-launch-talks-over-potential-deployment-2330115
RUH ROH
>>29511627
>if SK was a vassal to china
You misunderstand it, S.Korea says Byebye to US. S.Korea sees SouthChinaSea dispute and They judges from current issues what China is stronger than US.
>>29511690
US uses THAAD missile deploying issues as a diplomatic tool against China-Russia.
US has a castingboard and S.Korea has nothing at all. Korea is being lonely at the top among US-China-Russia-Japan-BestKorea
>>29511716
>S.Korea says Byebye to US
Except they have not done this at all.
Factually: US/Korean relations are at an all time high.
Factually: Korean forces would be under US operational control in any conflict.
It seems the koreans think that the US is stronger than china.
Maybe, because, you know, they are both politically and militarily,
>US uses THAAD missile deploying issues as a diplomatic tool against China-Russia.
Yes, and now its going to korea, which kind of destroys your view on it being a Chinese vassal.
>and S.Korea has nothing at all.
Korea is vital to the anti chinese efforts, and they know it.
Why be a vassal when you can be an equal? Why be a slave to china when you can be an equal to the US?
>>29511737
>Factually: Korean forces would be under US operational control in any conflict.
Yes. Government of S.Korea has no "supreme command of S.Korea Army" since 1950 and Reason is ridiculous.
>>29511737
>Yes, and now its going to korea, which kind of destroys your view on it being a Chinese vassal.
No. Why do alwyas S.Koreans overrate their values? S.Korea claims Deploying Thaad should be under control by S.Korea
>>29511737
>Korea is vital to the anti chinese efforts, and they know it.
S.Korea approaching China with no thinking, so North goes crazy.Koreans will never be a vital
>>29511819
>Reason is ridiculous.
The reason is rediculous? They have no reason in their thinking? What are you trying to say?
>No. Why do alwyas S.Koreans overrate their values?
Why do they over rate their value? Is this what you are asking? They are not. They ARE vital to the US efforts in the region. This is unquestioned.
>S.Korea claims Deploying Thaad should be under control by S.Korea
Its under discussion, and US has shared tech with S korea before.
>S.Korea approaching China with no thinking, so North goes crazy.Koreans will never be a vital
Ok buddy, get a friend to help you with your engrish. This shit is unreadable.
More to the point, south Korea is a US ally and will keep being a US ally for the foreseeable future. Nothing, NOTHING, suggests otherwise.
>>29511737
>Why be a slave to china when you can be an equal to the US?
Funny thing, It is from Korean Mental issue by history.Korea is an eternal vassal state and People is China's material for long time, so they believe implicitly what they become Master's No.2.
Yes,Koreans thinks when Koreans were Chinese when their dynasity becomes vassal and this is why Korean's bullehead becomes more badly
>>29511878
>It is from Korean Mental issue by history.
So you think they need to be slaves?
Laughable. I sincerely hope the top Chinese government officials holds this mindset because it is what will keep china from getting any kind of advantage over the US concerning south korea.
North korea is a nation of slaves. All south korea has to do is look over the border to see what being a slave to china gets you.
>>29511878
>and this is why Korean's bullehead becomes more badly
PREASE REAVE QURICKY!
Seriously, get out chicom. If you cant even speak English get the fuck off an English board.
>>>/int/
>>29511913
sorry, but the Chinese,Japanese and Taiwanese and Russians in EastAsia is worried about this
>>29511934
I dont give a fuck.
If they cant speak english, get the fuck off /k/.
>>29503284
>What is helping the Phillippines for $500, Alex?
>>29503328
A "Fine" City
>>29506809
Shut up, adults are talking
>>29511878
The 50 cent army detected.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/04/vietnam-seizes-chinese-vessel-detains-crew
>>29511878
I try to avoid calling 50 cent but I think we have a bona fide chicom ITT.
>>29512785
Thank you anon we try very hard
>>29510657
>Why don't graphics showing highly simplified raw numbers teach the complexities to people that don't know, and don't care enough to find out?
>>29509849
The NSC is a nice boat
The USCG is very safety focused. The Indonesians prefer to conduct their ops without little things like life jackets or proper boots
>>29510034
If that badge is what I think it is its most certainly a model
>>29514892
>>29513024
>>29511913
>all these chicom cries
Don't any of you recognize a Jap when you see one? Chinkroach writing style is different and they wouldn't talk down to their slave/ally Corea that much.
>>29502234
Basically the PRC is building islands to project power because they can't build a good navy.
Everyone else in the region is pretty pissed.
And the US shows up every now and then, violating the "airspace" because we don't care what sandforts they build.
And we're probably going to see the PLAN get blasted out of the water in the near future.
>>29515804
>Basically the PRC is building islands to project power because they can't build a good navy.
They're doing both.
>>29515804
PRC is building islands to legitify their political claim to the sea
Not to "project power"
Does the US have any claim on any of these waters? No, because they have no islands.
>>29511913
>>29513024
Honestly, this kind of anti-Korean memery smells more like Japanese NEET-age.
>>29506073
ROMEO
O
M
E
O
>>29515804
>Can't build a good navy
>Most combatants
>Most personnel
>Most aux
Wew lad
>>29517093
>dude quantity is quality lmao
wew
>>29511311
For reference this is me again and I haven't posted ITT since. I'm ignoring most of the stormer attitudes because it's dumb racially bigoted trash.
I realize that control of the seas is vitally important for trade and a policy of free global trade is what oils the machines in the US. But realisitically the PRC already controls over half the regional trade anyway.
Ignoring the regional power of China is stupid and not accepting it is ignorant. There's a reason Thatcher gave up Hong Kong in the 80s. The Chinese could take it at any time.
Giving up the SCS to the PRC is going to happen in the same way Taiwan is not recognized as the legitimate authority in China happened. Nobody liked Chi-Coms then but might makes right in that scenario and this one.
Beyond that China has the most to lose when choking off global trade, they're not going to suddenly shift the trade situation. They want to bully their neighbors in the same way the English bullied the Irish. We should let them.
I say that because the alliances between the US and S. Korea, Japan and Malaysia are superficial. We treat them like puppet states and there's growing resentment toward our armed forces there. It's also incredibly expensive maintaining these alliances which made sense in the cold war but not China is a huge trade partner with the US.
So why do we keep subsidizing the militaries of the Japanese and S. Korea when Japan is kicking the marines out to Guam and Koreans riot annually?
>>29517593
>Ignoring the regional power of China is stupid and not accepting it is ignorant. There's a reason Thatcher gave up Hong Kong in the 80s. The Chinese could take it at any time.
which she should never have done. If the PRC tried to sieze it, they would have been forced to destroy it, thus denying its use and facilities to the enemy. Hell even with all the growth based off of it, it still makes up more than 3% of the China's GDP.
>but might makes right in that scenario and this one.
might never makes right. might and right are completely unrelated. The one who is right may be mighty or meek, the one who is mighty may be right or wrong.
>They want to bully their neighbors in the same way the English bullied the Irish. We should let them.
I say that because the alliances between the US and S. Korea, Japan and Malaysia are superficial. We treat them like puppet states and there's growing resentment toward our armed forces there. It's also incredibly expensive maintaining these alliances which made sense in the cold war but not China is a huge trade partner with the US.
you are stuck in the mentaility of the 00's. It turns out, that while the PLAN was weak and useless, the ASEAN nations got pissed at US military pressence; however, as the PLAN has begun to bully them, the ASEAN have seen a dramatic turnaround in feelings about US military forces.
Let me explain a little something about geopolitics that you seem not to understand. To use force against countries, to steal their land and resources, without the express consent of their neighbors, makes all the other countries in the region fearful. This fear drives those countries to seek out the biggest most powerful force they can in order to counterbalance the situation. Only Russia could drive Ukraine into the US's and Europe's arms. Only China could drive Vietnam in the US's arms.
The major naval\aerial contributing factors are aircraft carriers, stealth tech, antirocket tech, and soon to become even more prevalent in warfare, robotics and AI. Cyber tech is of course in there.
*Yawn*
SSDD. Fuck, the Chinese aren't even actually using the PLAN all that much down there - most of the time it's just their coast guard. This shit ain't nothing compared to the old days when they would do fucking autocannon drive-bys on the ships of other claimants.
>>29510889
Liaoning and the second one they'e building right now are basically more there to give their shipbuilding companies and the PLAN experience in constructing/using carriers respectively than for their actual capabilities in a shooting war. The Chinese are going to drive them around a lot to develop procedures and doctrine, then retire them to training duty once they've applied the lessons learned to build a second generation of fully-indigenous designs.
They're playing the long game and those two ships are just the first step.
>>29506723
>>29506790
Wow, that's depressing
>>29510814
which is why we should be fighting them on the ground.
>>29518934
>This shit ain't nothing compared to the old days when they would do fucking autocannon drive-bys on the ships of other claimants.
The old days involved the Non-existant PRC Navy sending shitty gunboats in the Spratlys that were scared away by a flight of Philippine Mustangs/Sabers/Or even fucking Texans.
>>29518036
>however, as the PLAN has begun to bully them, the ASEAN have seen a dramatic turnaround in feelings about US military forces.
>The ASEAN
You mean Philippines and Vietnam?
Because Malaysia and Brunei can negotiate with China, Thailand, Indonesia, and Singapore want to be Neutral, Laos, Cambodia and Burma are in China's pocket.
You know nothing of the region. See >>29510513
>>29511564
>Vietnam
IT AIN'T M-
Wait, it actually is us this time.
>>29519067
>Liaoning and the second one they'e building right now are basically more there to give their shipbuilding companies and the PLAN experience
REEEEEEEEEEEEE
this does not play out. One, china is a huge shipbuilding nation. They *SHOULD* be able to put out a much, much more capable carrier.
Two, if the ship builders CANT do it, it wont be able to do this one either. A 50,000 ton ship with D/C measures added in is the same weather or not its a shitty design or not.
Now this is where you go "WELL THE DESIGNERS NEED PRACTICE!". Again, this does not logically play out, as they litterally bought the blueprints from ukraine to build the ship. All they are doing is adding shit here and there.
>The PLAN needs practice.
That was the entire point of the Liaoning. The entire fucking point and one carrier does it beautifuly. 3 carriers is complete overkill when they have no carriers to go to.
>They're playing the long game and those two ships are just the first step.
They are failing the long game completely. It will be 20 years before they put out their first indig, capable, carrier to sea, and thats if they already started the design phase. They are so far behind the fucking ball is crazy.
>>29521401
To make my point clear, the Liaoning class (idk if they relased the class designation) is bested by a vintage 1945 us design of similar tonnage (midway class)
>>29521401
>this does not play out. One, china is a huge shipbuilding nation. They *SHOULD* be able to put out a much, much more capable carrier.
Daily fucking reminder for /k/ that warship and merchant shipbuilding are as roughly related as passenger prop jet building and supersonic jet fighter industry. Just because you can do one well has absolutely fuckall to do with being able to do the other.
>>29521476
I fucking agree.
Unless you are stateing that the lioning is being built to commerical spec, its fucking 100% irrelevant.
They are bulding a 50,000 ton milspec ship if its either a good design or a bad design, it does not matter to the plate and steel shipbuilders
>>29503372
Richer than you
Safer than you
More wanted than you
Malaysia rule the sea ? LOL.
>>29522976
Nice food though
>>29511096
You're just plain wrong.
The Liaoning and the ships based off of her are extremely useful and powerful ships.
>>29521401
The Liaoning with it's current forces is more capable than every carrier outside America.
2/10 I replied
>>29523920
>The Liaoning with it's current forces is more capable than every carrier outside America.
GB decommissioned several carriers which were 30+ years old which were far more capable than the Liaoning. The last time the USN fielded fleet carriers at that capability level, it was WWII and they were flying prop planes off it. Even the Midway of Desert Storm vintage could generate more sorties and store more aircraft.
>>29523981
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible-class_aircraft_carrier
You're telling me the 22,000 tonne Independence is comparable to the 65,000 tonne Liaoning??? And for America how do you even compare propeller planes to modern jet fighters???? Yeah the Wisconsin is bigger than the Atago, but I'd pick the Atago every fucking day. Also, I explicitly said "outside America."
What I said was completely accurate so fuck off.
>>29502234
没有共产党就没有新中国!
Make new China, and make new world. World is not toy for the America.
>>29524054
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Eagle_(R05)
Dumbass.
>>29524054
>Yeah the Wisconsin is bigger than the Atago, but I'd pick the Atago every fucking day. Also, I explicitly said "outside America."
In what way, in what possible situation, could HIJMS Atago possibly be a superior tactical choice than the USS Wisconsin? Seriously.
>>29524066
World is also not toy for China
>>29524054
The Liaoning is a training ship. It's never going to stray very far from it's port.
>>29524066
>World is not toy for the America.
Yes it is. We have the high ground.
>>29524670
>that pic
DAMN SKIPPY, SIR!
>>29524684
shit. I didn't even notice he was two feet off the ground in a 91kg suit (on earth).
>>29524692
The kilogram us a unit if mass, so the mass of the suit us still 91 kg. If it were in lbs, a unit of force, then the amount would change.
>>29524692
91kg is 91kg. It just weighs fewer pounds on the moon. You can thank that inanity for metric measuring MASS and customary measuring WEIGHT.
>>29524707
>You can thank that inanity for metric measuring MASS and customary measuring WEIGHT.
My high school physics teacher would be so ashamed of me right now.
>>29524707
to be fair when customary was developed, no one knew mass and weight were different things
>>29524109
Anon said 30 year old carrier, not 70.
>>29524126
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDS_Atago
Umm. Modern naval warfare.
>>29524611
It just traveled south of the Spratly's.
>>29524814
>Anon said 30 year old carrier, not 70.
The carrier was 30+ years old when it was decommissioned. Dumbass.
>Umm. Modern naval warfare.
Are you completely unaware that Atago was a famous WWII cruiser, and as such you probably should have specified?
>>29506073
Is this suppose to be one of those ironic images? Where the joke isn't that they have so many submarines but that we've actually detected said number of submarines who's main role is to remain undetectable?
>>29521401
>this does not play out. One, china is a huge shipbuilding nation.
Which only now has started getting into the rather more specialised business of building fucking carriers. Having a lot of civilian shipbuilding and dockyards capable of churning out destroyers and smaller is a hell of a lot different from building fucking full-scale aircraft carriers.
So no, it does asolutely not follow that they SHOULD *somehow* be able to skip the learning steps alltogether.
They don't need practice, dipshit, they need PRACTICAL FUCKING EXPERIENCE. Find out what works and what doesn't in practice, then incorporate it into the follow-ons. The devil is in the details for that, not that a cretin like you has any hope to ever understand that. They don't want to 1:1 copy a set of blueprints, they want to FUCKING LEARN DOING IT THEMSELVES PROPERLY. "Adding shit here and there", or, in other words, experimenting, is one of the most direct ways to do exactly fucking that.
And no, having only one experimental carrier would be very limited and slow both in terms of training up crews and experimenting both technical and doctrinal approaches - going parallel is a simple and fast way to speed up the process as long as you have the resoures to afford it.
You are fucking failing to understand even the most basic principles of how to build a fucking navy and your entire opinion is based on nothing but that failure.
