You're now running a mercenary outfit. What is the typical weapon of each type?
•Rifle/Carbine:
•Battle Rifle:
•Shotgun:
•Sniper Rifle:
•Pistol:
•Revolver:
•Grenade:
•Loadbearing Rig:
•Body Armor & Helmet:
etc, you get the idea.
>>29089975
depends on mission. Depends on qualifications of applicants. Depends on time constrains.
With those three factors I could not even tell you if they get shoes.
>>29089975
•Rifle/Carbine:
>some M4 patern, any group of 4 or more will have at least 1 DM
•Battle Rifle:
>might as well go with the SCAR
•Shotgun:
>mossman 590a1
•Sniper Rifle:
>custom built 7mm RUM
•Pistol:
>glawk 17
•Revolver:
>2.5" barrel sw629
•Grenade:
>make a modern stick grenade, cause fuck it
•Loadbearing Rig:
>banshee is fine, gotta go with that wolf grey
•Body Armor & Helmet:
>ceramic plates, no hemet
SLR104FR
SCAR17S
590A1
TikkaT3 lite in 6.5 creedmoor
Glock34
None
M67
>>29089993
Mission:
Train militants in the Middle East and assist in protection of towns and citizens from Jihaddi Johnny. Supplies for any chosen caliber readily available. Enemies use gear typical of the area.
Qualifications:
Former Military members and LEO as well as some civilians that passed minimum standards of fitness and marksmanship. On a Navy PRT, they would get a good or better. Navy marksmanship, Sharpshooter to Expert.
Time Constraints:
Indefinite. You're to hold the town for now and train locals when not in conflict.
>Quality optics like Elcans
>Quality Nods
>Quality suppressor with adapter kit
Anything else can be procured in country.
>>29089993
Nigga, haven't you seen Die Hard?
Motherfuckers need shoes.
•Rifle/Carbine:
>Desert Tech MDR, 5.56
•Battle Rifle:
>FN FAL, .308
•Shotgun:
>Benelli M4 Super 90, 12ga
•Sniper Rifle:
>Remington M40A6, .308
•Pistol:
>Browning Hi Power, 9mm
•Revolver:
>None
•Grenade:
>M67
•Loadbearing Rig:
>Whatever
•Body Armor & Helmet:
>Ceramic, that helmet that makes your shit like a real version of GRAW
>>29090034
>remlin
>benellie
>FN FAiL
jesus, stock up on coffins for your men.
>>29090034
Mostly what I would pick, but add 4 inch S&W model 586's. And maybe a ankle .38 special, maybe one of those carry new eight shoot snub noses smith makes, or a classic CDS, chief special or a Colt agent/cobra.
>>29090012
>6.5 creedmore
>in a bolt
why cuck your men?
>>29089975
AR
AR in .308
Mossberg 500 or something shorter if it's only for breaching
AR in .308 for semi auto, bolt action chambered in .338 rem mag or other big round
Glocks
no revolvers
And all of it is mission dependent.
>>29090047
What're your alternatives and justification for the replacements?
>>29090049
Those do seem nice. I wanted to say "Ruger GP100," I've heard a lot about their reliability. My understanding is that Ruger makes workhorse revolvers and S&W makes ones that are overall higher grade except more susceptible to fucking up its timing or shooting itself loose with magnum ammo. I don't know anything about Colts.
A lot of people are saying "Glock." Is there any particular reason to choose Glock over, say, Springfield XD aside from the name?
>>29090059
Colts are good when they work.
which is rare.
>>29090013
•Rifle/Carbine: any AR-15 variant.
•Battle Rifle: None
•Shotgun: None
•Sniper Rifle: Some sort of DMR perhaps m14's? But honestly probably something better AND cheaper
•Pistol: basic bitch glock, shit works.
•Revolver: none.
•Grenade: Smoke, fragment, incendiary.
•Loadbearing Rig: Individual choice. allowance allotted
•Body Armor & Helmet: optional, allowance allotted
Etc: anti-tamper landmines, like fucking a million of them. recoiless rifles. Mother fucking aerostats. thousands of feet of Constantine wire. ATGMS.
>>29090065
Over a xd line? Yes.
XDs are shit tier, Croatian garbage.
>>29090078
I didn't know the XD was bad. I was under the impression that they were as good, if not better, than Glock. I don't remember why I thought that.
>>29090076
M1A so that it's more accurate and semi-only?
>>29089975
•Rifle/Carbine:
>What are you a pussy, no half arsed calibers instead you get a SMG, MP-7 and Kriss Vector or you go get a pair and grab a Battle Rifle
•Battle Rifle:
>A bullpup 7,62 but since that ain't real M-14
•Shotgun:
>AA-12 and SPAS-12
•Sniper Rifle:
>RT-20 for Anti Material and M-14 EBR as DMR weapon
•Pistol:
.40 S&W Browning HP and FN-57
•Revolver:
>None
•Grenade:
>Modern Russian Nades, Especially the AT one
•Body Armor & Helmet:
>Dragon Scale and any modern helmet
>>29089975
•Rifle/Carbine: HK33k
•Battle Rifle: G3A3 with wide fore arm
•Shotgun: Benelli M4
•Sniper Rifle: MSG90a1
•Pistol: Mk23
•SMG: MP5-10
•Grenade: M67
•Body Armor & Helmet: LBT Modular Plate Carrier & ACH
>>29089975
>M70b3
>G3
>Ithaca 37
>M76
>Makarovs
>Model 38s
>Handmade hand grenades to teach them responsibility.
>Type 56 vests and SADF chest rigs
>Chromed East German m56 helmets, polished to a mirror sheen
>>29090094
Is this orange general store price tag like the antimeme to the qr stickers?
>>29090088
I like the idea of battle rifle and SMG only, especially considering that the situation has you being stationary currently and you may be clearing buildings.
Bullpup 7.62 is real, though. Desert Tech MDR. Good company too.
Why .40 S&W over 9mm, out of curiosity?
>>29090094
Lol, Jesus Christ.
>>29090089
Someone likes HK
>>29090101
I would imagine that a Mercenary/PMC force would face a lot of Sand People with hardly any body armor meaning stopping power is more necessary than amount of ammo or penetration capabilities plus I like the .40 S&W Expanding rounds more than those of 9mm.
>>29089975
Everyone has a 4 bore double rifle.
that is all.
>>29089975
Rifle/Carbine:
>AK 74U
Battle Rifle:
>Rhodesian FAL
Shotgun:
>M1897
Sniper Rifle:
>PGM Hecate II
Pistol:
>Browning Hi-Power
Revolver:
>Nagant m1895
Grenade:
>Custom made explosive Dragon Dildo.
>>29090118
>stopping power
>amount of ammo not inportant
>penetration not important
its like you don't know how bullet wounds incapacitate people.
>>29090101
>SMG
short barreled rifles killed those in the late 80s
•Rifle/Carbine: AR-15 platform rifle
•Battle Rifle: H&K G3
•Shotgun:
•Sniper Rifle: H&K PSG1
•Pistol: personal choice as long as it's NATO standard calliber
•Revolver: personal choice
•Grenade:
•Loadbearing Rig:
•Body Armor & Helmet:
>>29090168
1974 called, it wants it's shit-tier HK crap back.
>>29090166
Still has a place though in the case of PDWs, in a way. Vehicle crew, sidearm replacement, etc although I'm kind of of the opinion that even if you don't bring a spare magazine for whatever reason, there's no excuse to not have a pistol as a last ditch weapon.
>>29090177
And a 7" barreled, collapsing/folding stock holding 30 rifle rounds is the go to now, and for the last 20 years over a 7" barreled ,folding stock gun holding 30 pistol rounds.
because pistol rounds dont have shit on rifle rounds.
>>29090189
Yeah, but I mean, PDWs. As in special snowflake calibers meant to go through car doors and shit. Very specific applications. I'd take a .300 BLK AR15 over an MP5 any day, but PDWs still have their use.
>>29090194
You think any rifle round wont go through a car door?
>>29090200
I think I'd rather conserve my hearing, not get burnt or burn my shit, not deal with a stock, and a myriad of other reasons. You ever aimed a weapon in a vehicle, especially wearing gear? Shit's cumbersome. A PDW doesn't make it easy, but it makes it easier.
>>29090156
>9mm
>Smaller round
>Lower Energy
>Worse expanding proprieties
>Goal: Kill Sand People
>Requirement: Instant Kill
>9mm is worse at that then .40 S&W
>>29090219
>expansion
>anything to do with killing/stopping someone
Penetration kills, and 9mm does that better then .40.
read some research, rather than ammo ads.
you can start with the FBIs report on handgun wounding factors
>>29089975
•Rifle/Carbine: AKM
•Battle Rifle: SG556
•Shotgun:M3
•Sniper Rifle: AWP
•Pistol: Dual M9's
•Revolver: -
•Grenade: Flashbangs
•Loadbearing Rig: Pockets
•Body Armor & Helmet: Kevlar, no helmet
>>29090206
PDW doesnt even mean SMG anymore, that is how irrelevant SMGs are now. PDWs are SBRs, usualy integrally suppressed.
also, shooting in an enclosed space doea no more damage to hearing than an open space.
fuck why do kids not understand basic physics and physiology now?
>>29090238
???
>Reflecting sunlight with a mirror doesn't burn you quicker
ok
>>29090228
A case study on the actual kills per shot in the US has shown that top cartridges are .357 and .40S&W with over 90% first hit kills.
>>29090238
have you never been in an indoor range?
>>29090238
>PDWs are SBRs, usualy integrally suppressed.
Literally not true. PDWs are shit like an MP7 or Skorpion, low caliber and meant to be as compact as possible, usually with a very short barrel.
>shooting in an enclosed space doea no more damage to hearing than an open space.
Okay now I know you're fucking with me. Probably not the same guy even. Regardless of long term effects, firing in an enclosed space will deafen you for much longer, surely you'd at least know that. The concussive force alone is many times the outdoor level when indoors, let alone within a car.
If it's the same guy and he's not trolling, he probably got too tied up in semantics and math and lost sight of real world applications and data.
>>29090254
Also penetration doesn't matter.
What you want is Hydrostatic Shock and Permanent Cavity. Two things that are influenced by size of cartridge.
>>29090272
Hydrostatic shock doesn't exist.
you are some kind of special newfag to not know this, as it was disproven in the 80s.
the differences in permanent cavitation are insurmountable between 9mm, .40, and .45
>>29090264
So, how does a gun make a bang?
Expanding gases cause a pressure wave in the form of sound energy.
this pressure wave is at it's most powerful at the muzzle, and radiates outwards, it will never be as energetic (loud) as it is at thus point, as it is losing energy, then the wave gets to your ears, this is the loudest that you will hear it.
the wave then continues, losing more energy, it then strikes a surface, and bounces off, retaining no more than 30% the energy of when it hit the surface.
now it comes back, continuing to lose energy, until it hits your ear the second time, with, at most 30% the energy (decibels) that you experienced tthe first time the wave came by.
very few guns make a report, that 30% of which is still dangerous to human hearing.
>Rifle/Carbine:
KAC SR-15
>Battle Rifle:
KAC SR-25 or SCAR-17
>Shotgun:
Benelli Supernova
>Sniper Rifle:
McMillan TAC-338
>Pistol:
Sig P320
>Revolver:
Ruger GP100
>Grenade:
M67
>Loadbearing Rig:
Eagle Industries Chest Rig
>Body Armor & Helmet
Crye JPC + Generic Level IV ceramic plates. Team Wendy Exfil helmet.
>>29090323
No it hasn't been disproven. Quite the contrary new data shows it's a thing, but to a lesser extent then some have believed.
And no the difference in cavity is clearly visible between a 9mm .40 and .45.
>>29090245
Reflecting sunlight does nothing.
running it through a parabolic lense/magnifying glass, sure, because it is focusing it.
say a magnifying glass of 8"^2 is taking natural light from that much area, and focusing it to a point the size of a pinhead.
also, in that situation it is constantly producing energy, where as a gunshot, the energy is produced in an event, then no more is.
if you focus ~130db at someones head and keep it going, yes, it is terrible, and that is the idea behind directional acoustic weapons.
>>29090355
Litwrally go read any report on handgun effects from the FBI, or a medical practitioner.
but if you want to be a dumb fuck (it appears you are actively trying to accomplish this) then keep holding your ears and shouting "expansion, hydrostatick shock".
but try not to let your ill-informed bullshit spread through the ignorant masses, that is how you ended up in this losing argument.
>>29090347
You copypasting something we all already know doesn't prove that shooting indoors doesn't fuck you up more than outdoors and especially doesn't prove that shooting in a car, the tightest possible confine we can reasonably expect to ever possibly shoot in outside of a closet, won't fuck your shit right up.
You're saying you want to use an SBR in place of a PDW, which means BIG FUCKING FIREBALL and LOUD FUCKING NOISE in an enclosed space rather than a PDW which will have little or no flash and report in comparison. I specifically said I want to better preserve hearing and shit, and you're slamming your head on the keyboard going "nuh uh, numbers," again lost in semantics and math and forgetting the factors of the actual situation.
Consider the fact that you're making the flash and report gigantic on their own and THEN putting it into tight confines before typing your next post. There's a reason why .300 BLK was used for AR15 SBRs to great effect over 5.56, man. A PDW is the idea of taking that concept a step further to suit the needs of a person in specific circumstances.
Let me ask you this:
What point, exactly, are you trying to make?
>>29090373
Wield-ability alone is a factor.
>>29089975
>•Rifle/Carbine:
Anything cheap and Russian
>•Grenade:
Rocket propelled
>•Body Armor & Helmet:
Suicide vest
> vehicle
Passenger jet
>>29090371
There are literal reports from Iraq showing the fact that Hydrostatic Shock is real.
Yes the FBI says Hydrorstatic Shock has no great effect. But it's still real. And you have done nothing to prove me otherwise besides saying go read what the FBI says.
Also the .40 S&W with the right load can out penetrate a 9mm.
So even by your standards .40 S&W is still better then 9mm.
>>29090389
Not the guy you're arguing with, but could you pleas tell us how you would make a .40 S&W that literally outperforms 9mm in all ways but capacity assuming the user is strong enough to use either with comparable accuracy?
Using a certain commercial bullet, using a certain barrel length, etc.
>>29089975
Get the swiss mercenaries out.
>Rifle/Carbine:
Stgw90
>Battle Rifle:
Stgw 57
>Shotgun:
Mossberg 500
>Sniper Rifle:
PSG-1
>Pistol:
Sig 210
>Revolver:
Ord. 1882
>Grenade:
Handgranate 85
>Loadbearing Rig:
a modified and improved version of the GT
>Body Armor & Helmet:
Level 4 plate carrier and Helm 04
>>29090400
.40 S&W is a bigger round with more energy behind it. Considering hand gun engagements are very close range we don't have to worry about drop off. That leaves recoil and damage to a target. .40 S&W has a bigger recoil yet still manageable and does objectively more damage to a target. Only argument against it is that a 9mm will kill most things with a double tap, but so does everything.
At the end of the day it's down to personal preference, and I prefer one shot kill capability not double tap.
>>29090422
It's a shame we can't like, have wild boars attack people that are wearing armor and have them use different calibers or something.
>>29090389
>hydrostatic shock
>initially a phenomenon theorized as the energy wave from a bullet, could travel through the blood vessels, and effect other parts of the body far from the bullet wound, i.e. getting shot in the chest, and having an aneurysm in the brain, cauing faster incapacitation, this was disproven.
>in more modern times, it is often used as a synonym for temporary wound cavity, where the energy radiating outwards from a bullet effect tissue, at higher energy levels closer to the bullet, the wave is stronger then the soft tissue, causing damage, this is part of the permanent cavity, after the wave slows to a speed where the tissue is no longer damaged, the tissue will stretch, but not be harmed, as the energy levels are within the lasticity of the soft tissue
so basically, the origonal theroy of hydrostatic shock, which as a buzzword sold so many extra bullets, was disproven, and the effects of temporary wound cavitation was found to have nothing to do with stoppages, the two were combined, by ammo companies, trying to make a buck.
its a marketing campaign, like the fn did with the 5.7 "wound vectors" literally a made up word, just to sell a product.
>>29090400
The dudes a fucking retard who belives a 30 word paragraph on a ammo ad in a gun magazine is accurate, while dozens of scientific and medical studies, collecting data for in some cases 30+ years are wrong.
>>29090422
OK not sure how we managed to get here from the op but you're chasing a myth. Any pistol caliber is under performing and the difference in performance between 9 mm, .40 and .45 is negligible compared to having the option to shoot someone more times. Keyword is negligible. More "damage" yes, a slightly bigger hole, but it's still a pistol caliber.
>At the end of the day it's down to personal preference, and I prefer one shot kill capability not double tap.
You should be shooting until the fucker hits the floor due to the inherent sub-lethal effects of pistol calibers. The end all and be all "manstopper" is a myth. It's been a myth for a significant amount of time. Give up on your dreams.
>>29090449
>inb4
>MUH STOPPIN POWAH
>MUH HYDROSTATIC SHOCK
>MUH OTHER MADE UP BULLSHIT
>>29090449
Would a .357 or at least a .50 Auto Express kill a fucker in one round?
And fine I concede defeat. But I am still keeping the Browning Hi-Power cause I am a fanboy.
>>29090470
Anything can kill in one round. What matters is shot placement.
Interrupt the cardiovascular or central nervous system. Hit a femoral artery, shoot the heart, hit the brain or spine, etc to kill quickly.
>>29090470
>kill
This is how we know you are a newfag, and uneducated.
killing doesnt matter, stopping the threat is, this is physically disabled totally, caused by the destruction of the brain, or by unconsciousness from blood loss, while achieving this usually means death for the person, it is not necessarily certain.
you shoot untill the threat stops, you never trust 1 round to do it, one reason is, most people fall to the ground as a reaction, even if they dont get hit with the bullet.
also, you can cause a wound that will kill them, but if you aren't careful, they can kill you before succumbing to it.
in SD, shoot till no longer a threat, hold gun on them till police arrive, if its a military type thing, and you have to keep moving without securing them, then no matter how many rounds you just gave them, you pump at least one more to the center mass of the brain.
>>29090510
Sorry if I don't use the right terminology Drill Sergeant Fuckface.
I actually meant what caliber when shooting center mass can disable all motor skills of a target upon impact with one singe projectile fired.
>>29090506
Yes but you don't aim for the head. You aim for center mass cause higher chance of hitting.
>>29090422
You are supposed to lurk for at least 1 year before posting, newfriend.
>>29090532
And organs and stuff, and if you use a combat zero then you'll be less likely to need to adjust. Center of mass always, doubletap before you move.
>>29089975
>•Rifle/Carbine:
M4
>•Battle Rifle:
none
>•Shotgun:
590a1
>•Sniper Rifle:
MK11
>•Pistol:
Glock G17, G22 or G21 - whatever they prefer and can qualify with
for a backup they're welcome to spend their own money on a pistol made by someone else, ammo and replacement parts if something breaks
>•Revolver:
nope
>•Grenade:
frags/flash/smoke from whoever will supply them
>•Loadbearing Rig:
no clue
>•Body Armor & Helmet:
no clue
I want to add
>Vehicle drivers:
HK MP5A3 or MP5K depending on space
>>29090545
How about a Sig MPX rather than an MP5?
>>29090532
Oh god damnit, now i have to expain a physical stoppage.
so when not hitting the head, or nervous system (which if you hit one of those, caliber doeant really matter) you case a stoppage by blood loss.
the fastest way to do this is by rupturing the aeorta, causing unconsciousness within 5-10 seconds, next best is the heart, at 6-12 seconds, then pulmonary artery at 8-15 seconds, those are the major blodd vessles in the chest cavity (veins are there as well, but usualy if you rupture the artery, you will rupture the corresponding vein).
No amount of energy dump, bullet expansion, or tissue damage matters if one of these things in not destroyed, a 4" hole in the chest may hurt, but if its only 3" deep, it doesn't do anything immediately to stop the person from killing you, first and foremost you have to damage one of these structures, thus comes down to bullet penetration and shot placement, as if you miss, it doesn't matter how deep the penetration is, and if you are right on target, it doesn't do much if the bullet stoppes short.
handgun bullets, especially .40sw, with a single shot, rarely penetrate the adequate depth to reach these structures. Multiple shots well, as each follow-up shot will pass through added empty space, and damged tissue that offers less resistance.
>>29090564
So we need SAPHE ammo is what you are saying.
>>29090554
interesting, i don't really know much about the MPX though
i just went with the MP5 because the K version is tiny and didn't really intend for it to be a primary weapon, more of a SHTF and i the driver needs to put some holes in things to escape
so after a little googling it looks like a cool option, i kinda like the .40 conversion
i'm sold
Everybody gets a deagle and a backpack full of grenades.
>>29090652
Yeah man, the design seems great. I wish it came in 10mm.
>>29090654
>Everybody gets a taurus .40 and a backpack full of pipe bombs.
>>29090657
yeah it seems like a cool pdw, AR type controls and trigger for familiarity and a compact size
was actually thinking about the MP7 since its not old as dirt like the MP5 is but didn't want the special snowflake ammo but the MPX seems great, a new modern gun in a common caliber
maybe if the MPX sells really well and is a big hit someone might make one
>>29090683
Same here. The search that led me to liking it was looking for a PDW like the MP7, but chambered for 9mm or something else readily available. I do still wish I could find one that loads from a grip magwell like the Uzi and MP7 though rather than the forward position on things like the Skorpion, MPX, etc.
Any chance you've seen anything like that?
>>29090689
hmm
first thought is M11 or Mac 11 lol
maybe a Steyr tmp?
pp2000?
there's also a few slavshit smg/pdws that load that way that fire 9×18mm Makarov
>>29090723
https://www.bt-ag.ch/shop/eng/bt-mp9tp9/bt-tactical-pistol-tp9-n-cal-9-x-19-mm
https://www.bt-ag.ch/shop/eng/bt-tp380/bt-42000-bt-pistol-tp380-cal-380-auto
Check these out
>>29090689
>>29090723
Look no further, citizens!
>>29090761
That looks pretty nice.
>>29090761
http://max-11.com/?nr=0
Yeah this shit is pretty sick.
>>29089975
>Diemaco C8
>Scar-H
>Benelli M4 12ga
>Chey-Tac Intervention with muh speshul .408
>FN Five SeveN
>No revolver
>Grenade : Willy Pete and any HE
>Body Armor and Helmet : Whatever the U.S army is issued
R8
>>29090900
>>Diemaco C8
AR15 is always a solid choice
>>Scar-H
Safe bet. Reliable.
>>Benelli M4 12ga
Great reputation, proven platform.
>>Chey-Tac Intervention with muh speshul .408
Don't like this one. An AR10 would suit the overall setup more.
>>FN Five SeveN
Pretty good choice, it'll get through thick clothes and armor nice and easy, but overpenetration may be an issue at typical handgun ranges in the case of a direct hit on a soft target. For this reason, 9mm may be more efficient.
>>No revolver
k
>>Grenade : Willy Pete and any HE
Can't go wrong here.
>>Body Armor and Helmet : Whatever the U.S army is issued
Pretty standard, it'll get the job done.
ItServesThePurpose/10
Yeah, I'll be getting one.
>>29090666
this desu satan
