Gas delayed blowback
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Why isnt gas delayed blowback more common? And delayed blowback in general?
Gas delayed blowback seems like a very simple way of building an action that can handle more powerful cartridges. Is it that it's ammo sensitive? Or is it comparable to gas operation in that respect?
Also less commom firearm action thread.
Incredibly complex, ammo picky, expensive to produce
>>30670248
How is it complex? Port(s) in the barrel let gasses into a chamber, the pressure then stops a piston from moving into the chamber until the pressure has dropped. It doesnt seem more complex than for example short recoil or gas operation, and can be made pretty compact like in the P7 or very simple like in many Volkssturm weapons
>>30670370
I don't have much room to talk, but I would be willing to bet they would be more likely to be ammo and bullet weight/velocity sensitive. And I'm under the strong impression they build heat faster
>>30670506
On paper they appear to be a much more self-regulating system than short recoil.
You're right about the heat though and the fitting between the piston and chamber needs to be precise which is expensive.
I think it probably comes down to the design being too different to be a market success (look at Walther's latest attempt with the CCP)
>>30670248
>Incredibly complex
are you fucking retarded?
>>30670370
>complexity of a system is defined by wether or not you can describe it
no
>>30670768
He didn't even imply that, are you retarded?
Also
> gas is directed to delay the slide from
opening
doesn't sound very complicated to me
>>30670768
Other than straight blowback what semi-automatic mechanism is simpler from an engineering perspective?
>>30670768
it's a fixed barrel non-locked blowback, the most simple self-loading pistol pissible. that single piston, again a mechanically extremely simple device, merely makes it work smoother and reduces stress.
>>30668887
Gets toasty, fluted chamber
>>30668887
Probably space. A pistol has to be compact, otherwise, why not get a two-handed weapon?
You see "gas delayed blowback" in pretty much every modern rifle ever, because fug it, once it's that big you can afford an extra couple tubes.
Weight and complexity of parts/necessary tooling may be another factor. Again, a rifle is big and can have big parts. A pistol is small, so manufacturing parts that won't fail (and even just consistently fit together) is more difficult than simple blowback.
Additionally, it's not really that worth it since most semi-automatic pistols don't have that crazy recoil, and larger rounds would give the gun bad ergonomics from the larger magazines that would likely be housed in the grip.
Does anyone know if pic related gets as hot as the classic P7?
Also, why isn't walther making this in a 15+1 doublestack?
>>30671075
Polymer does a decent job of shielding heat compared to metal but yes it still gets hot.
Walther hates money that's why.
>>30668887
>And delayed blowback in general?
All modern handguns are delayed blowback.
>>30671054
Are you retarded?
GDB is very extreely uncommon
>>30671103
Short recoil is not delayed blowback nor is it straight blowback
i think it's just that nobody has managed to make a good gas delayed pistol yet. hk are naturally a bunch of idiots.
>>30671145
This, short recoil actually has a locked breach.
>>30670977
>pissible
Good moaning.
>>30671054
Are you confusing the P7 with the Desert Eagle?
One is gas delayed blowback, the other is gas operated with a rotating bolt.
Obsessive P7 fan here.
As much as I like gas delayed blowback it does have some quirks that hurt it. Heat is one. There is usually a very high slide velocity so weak magazine springs will be apparent much sooner. Recoil springs are generally heavier than other designs so it's hard to rack for people with weak grip strength. The P7 also begins opening before pressure is completely dropped so it needs a fluted barrel as well. The gas port also means you can't use lead or plated bullets because they will leave slivers in the gas cylinder that will bind the gun up. In the case of the P7 it is also designed around a rather narrow spectrum of ammunition, it needs hot 124gr or 115gr to function. Anything heavier than 124gr like the common 147 will lead to malfunctions and eventually damage to the gun.
>>30668887
>Gas delayed blowback seems like a very simple way of building an action that can handle more powerful cartridges.
The more powerful the cartridge the larger you have to make the action and gas delay system. This also means more gas needs to be ported to properly delay the opening of the action which means more heat generated and a significantly larger weapon overall, negating the advantages the action is supposed to have over short recoil.
Any sort of gas operation is inherently more sensitive to ammo than a properly configured short recoil system. With a short recoil system all you have to ensure is that the resistance provided by the recoil spring and slide are enough to delay the action unlocking without providing so much resistance than the weapon does not fully cycle. Accomplishing this is very simple since it ends up being a matter of adjusting the weight of the recoil springs or slide as the locking mechanism by design is dependent only on there being the force of recoil pushing the action backwards.
>>30671443
>The more powerful the cartridge the larger you have to make the action and gas delay system
nope.
F = p × A
all it takes is an increase in area of the piston head, given equal pressure.
lrn2physics.
>>30670768
It's literally a vent hole into a piston.
As mechanisms go, the only things simpler are levers and ramps.
>>30670768
do you have any idea how it works? Here's a Steyr GB. The ONLY additional part over a straight blowback pistol is the barrel bushing that traps the gas. The barrel has gas rings and a gas port, easy machining operations, and no other additional parts.
>>30671963
>in area of the piston head
Hence a larger action. You will also need to increase the weight of the slide and spring as a more powerful cartridge will have a greater recoil impulse.
