Buying First Shotgun
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Hey guys, I'm getting my first shotgun ( home defense purposes ). I'm thinking of getting a Benelli M4. I don't really care about cost, but is there something better or more effective?
>>30644459
Can you buy an AR 15 where you live?
>>30644459
Beneli m4, Saiga 12, veper 12, Beneli m2
I would recommend that you just buy a Mossberg 500 and spend money on a Gucci AR or scopes / ammo.
>A shotgun is a shotgun semi or pump
>>30644459
Just buy a Glock 19, there is no reason to buy a shotgun.
>>30644459
I like my KSG, and only paid 760 for it into my hands.
>>30644497
Pump and semi are way different.
I'm not overly knowledgeable on semi shotguns, although limited experience with them has been enough for me to throw them in the realm of bullpup. Unless overly expensive it simply isn't worth a fuck.
>>30644459
>shotgun
>home defense
lol
>>30644459
A Benelli M4 is a very good shotgun, it doesn't have detachable box magazines, but it'll eat goddamn anything.
If you want detachable 8rd mags, 12rd mags, and 20rd drums, there's the Saiga-12 and Vepr-12, the Saiga might require some tweaking to the gas-port by a gunsmith sometimes if you get it and it doesn't want to quite cycle.
The Vepr-12 is overall a kickass shotgun.
>>30644497
If he's willing to shell out money for a fancy Benelli autoloader he could just as well go for the deluxe variant and get the Mossberg 590A1, if we're gonna talk Mossberg pumps.
>>30644546
It's not the end-all-be-all but it'll work.
You light a guy up with two or three shells on the spot and he's probably fucking done.
>>30644631
>You light a guy up with two or three shells on the spot and he's probably fucking done.
Probably, but if there's 3 you're out of ammunition.
Inb4 mall ninja fantasy, it's well documented that there are 3-4 man home invasions.
>>30644510
Yeah I love to take my Glock 19 out on dove hunts and for skeet shooting
>>30644459
Honestly I'd go Maverick 88 or Mossberg 500. Tons of aftermarket and cheap.I personally don't think semi's are worth the extra cash for what they do, pump action is one of the faster manual actions out there. If you are worried about aftermarket support the Winchester SXP has a buttery smooth and quick action
>>30645380
Danmit. If your ARENT worried
>>30644459
>I want to buy a Benneli M4 for home defense
Dude that's retarded, shotguns are good for home defense because they can reliably blow a volleyball sized hole in someone for less than $200 and aren't regulated most places, there way more viable choices if you're willing to drop real money though.
For the cost of a benneli m4 you could buy an AR carbine and a decent pistol, these would suit your home defense needs far better.
>>30644459
>Benelli M4 as a first shotgun
Shieeeet
>>30644545
>Unless a semi auto shotgun is overly expensive it isn't worth a fuck
This is not true. Are you one of those retards that think one semi auto should be able to reliably fire every kind of shotshell? Do you understand how powder charges and projectile weights would effect a semi auto firearm? Do you have a 6th grade grasp of physics???
>>30644537
I heard the slide was shit. But I haven't shot it yet.
>>30644459
Remington 870
Don't miss
>>30644459
Im also getting a first and only shotgun (EU not allowed as many guns as we want)
Should i get a
>Beneli m2
>Beneli m3
>Mossberg 590a1
Need advice.
I would get a Beneli m4 but thats apparently only for law enforcment and military in this country...
>>30645245
Oh yeah, that's why I'm saying it isn't the end-all-be-all, but it'll work.
Though you on the Benelli M4 you can load 1 round in the chamber and 1 round on the cartridge lifter on top of a full magazine, so that's still a fair number of shells.
Optionally it's a gun you can hand to your significant other as they cover your back.
Wonder if you could put a retention holster on the front of a pump or automatic and then use your pistol as a VFG, then pull it out as a backup?
It'd be the most mallninja thing to ever mallninja, but I just wonder.
I'd love to have a Bennelli M4. No, I don't think there are better options out there unless you want custom luxury. I don't think the other recommendations in this thread are comparable. Mossberg makes fine shotguns but someone looking at the M4 probably wouldn't be looking at a 500.
OP: Thinking about the Porsche Cayenne
/k: BUY A JEEP WRANGLER
>>30645489
>Implying a poodle shooter would be more effective than 12 gauge for killing an intruder that's going to be 3-10 feet away from you.
>>30645664
Sweet ass 590a1 in that picture. I have the exact same model, but I bought some wood furniture to class mine up.
(cross thread post)
Does anyone have a suggestion for a home defense shotty shooty that meets the requirements of:
comfortably operable by stubby manlet/womanlet arms (for reference, I use my AR on second to shortest notch with a magpul stock)
under $600 (way under, actually...)
large capacity
I was thinking of going Saiga.
>>30646005
>short
>large capacity
Two out of three aint bad. And comes with extra flair too!
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/571668457
>>30645938
stop saying killing it makes you sound like a criminal. guns in the hands of good guys are for stopping threats.
>>30645938
Yes, it would be, and is.
>>30646005
A youth model mossberg 500 in 20 gauge might be just what you're looking for.
>>30645664
Benelli Nova with a tube extendo. It costs only a few bucks more than a 590, but is 10x better.
shit is like glock-simple to disassemble and clean, only thing is the park'd barrel exterior will get spotty rust if you look at it wrong.
>>30646060
there is not enough data to support this claim one way or the other
>>30646036
>stop saying killing it makes you sound like a criminal.
> re-reads my post
> don't see any way it could be interpreted that way.
> TF are you high on?
I'm just saying that a blast of 12 gauge would kill someone a hell of a lot faster than poking em full of a few .223 inch holes.
>>30646072
>It costs only a few bucks more than a 590, but is 10x better.
That moment when you realize anon is full of shit.
>>30646079
Don't see how, we've seen a fuckload of one shot and multiple shot stops out of both firearms, but we do know that an AR, which as long as it meets IWBA standards, which it almost always does, is completely capable of killing a human in one hit and has a much larger magazine.
>>30646094
you are the only one who brought up the word killing when it was completely unnecessary. you shoot someone to stop a threat, not to kill them. it is just coincidental that they often die afterwards when you shoot them in the chest. this is just semantics but it's the difference between looking like a good guy and looking like a stereotypical bloodthirsty asshole that the left wants you to look like.
>>30645323
I load my glock 19 with 9mm birdshot rounds for quail hunting. Works everytime....as long as I'm less than 10ft away.
>>30646109
there are a fuckload of one shot stops from 22lr. there is no comprehensive study that shows the comparative effectiveness of buckshot vs 5.56 on a round per round basis and if there is one please link it.
>>30646036
>guns in the hands of good guys are for stopping threats.
How do you stop the threat of childhood obesity with a gun? Is that what Adam Lanza was doing?
>>30646065
no bully plz
manlets deserve protection too...
>>30646117
>you shoot someone to stop a threat, not to kill them.
Dude, do you live in some liberal shithole where you get brow-beaten into PTSD about the semantics and context of TALKING about shooting someone? The bullet goes into them, it stops the threat, usually by them ceasing to live.
>>30646136
Exactly, but the point is, that both have taken multiple, both have taken singles, with an AR, you get 30. With a shotgun, you get 7 or 8 generally.
>>30646160
>Dude, do you live in some liberal shithole where you get brow-beaten into PTSD about the semantics and context of TALKING about shooting someone? The bullet goes into them, it stops the threat, usually by them ceasing to live.
no I'm just informing you that you are making gun owners look bad by your poor choice of language. I own a gun so I can defend myself. not so I can kill people.
>>30644494
Yes, my last AR was an H&K MR556
>>30646117
>you are the only one who brought up the word killing
Are you some new form of cuck that isn't 100% against guns but isn't 100% for them either? Broman, if a thug piece of shit breaks into your home then kill the dead out of him.
>>30646072
>>30646102
Over here both the 590a1 and the supernova cost 980$ the 590 cost 5$ more acutally
>>30645489
I have multiple ARs and pistols, but I'd much rather have a shotgun for home defense
>>30645938
>poodleshooter
>55gr projectile moving at 3000fps
>BUH IT'S DA SAME DIAMETER AS MUH .22 PLINKER
Pic related is M855 in all it's mediocrity, do you want me to bring you M193?
>>30645664
You'll enjoy the Benelli far more.
Though the 590A1 is pretty good.
>>30644545
>I'm not overly knowledgeable on semi shotguns
We can tell.
>>30645612
Remington has been dogshit for like a decade, avoid, MIM extractors and shitty finish.
>>30646179
Being shot in real life doesn't make a person fly backwards and immediately die. If 5.56 doesn't hit the spine, the brain, or the femur/patella/tibia/fibula then there's nothing physically stopping an attacker from continuing with his attack against you. Some guys will stop from the psychological impact of being shot, but others will not even be phased.
12 gauge is a completely different story. There's no gritty your teeth and walking off a massive crater of fleshing being eviscerated by 12 gauge buckshot/slug/even birdshot at obnoxiously close distances. Anyone who gets shot squarely in the torso with 12 gauge at close disances is going to either be dead or incapacitated.
>>30646262
> shoots gun with no recoil
> expect it to be highly deadly super amazing kill round just like news lady says
> equal and opposite reactions are a lie
>all these people itt recommending mossberg 590a1
it's the 590 we all love with an extra heavy and useless barrel
besides, benelli supernova is a better pump in the same price range
>>30644537
the ksg is a shit shotgun
>>30645664
the m2 is an interia system. it kicks more than gas operated semi shotguns, but it will eat anything. go with the m2.
>>30645885
jeep wranglers are expensive as fuck, even used man.
>>30646117
this autism is insane
>>30646179
You get nine projectiles from a single 00 buckshot shell. Nine in one trigger pull rapidly increases chances of hitting something vital and dropping somebody.
>>30646345
Fucking this, feel the recoil from a AR-15? That's what the bad guy is feeling too, just concentrated in a spot about 1/4" in circumference. A leather jacket, a big gut, or even good abs will turn your "super deadly AR" into the equivalent of stabbing someone with a glasses screwdriver.
>>30646438
>it's the 590 we all love with an extra heavy and useless barrel
Nope nope nope. It has the overbuild barrel, but it also (unlike the regular 590) has
1: Aluminum trigger guard / safety button
2: Parkerized / anodized finish
Both of those things are worth the upgrade. IMO, I wouldn't bother with a 590. Get the 500 for cheap or pay the extra price for that sweet ass 590a1 goodness.
> Being shot in real life doesn't make a person fly backwards and immediately die.
I disagree. The mossberg 500 series has made much more of a name for itself by being THE indestructible pump action shotgun. I've heard of a few super novas that broke after 100-300 rounds fired. Benelli makes fine smei-autos, but I'd leave the pumps to Mossberg and Remmington from 10+ years ago.
>>30646502
EDIT because I'm autism incarnate. I meant to reply to "besides, benelli supernova is a better pump in the same price range" and not "Being shot in real life doesn't make a person fly backwards and immediately die."
>>30646450
That's the wrong way to think about it. With a shotgun you don't even really need to hit something vital. That's a mentality to use when you have a gun that just pokes little holes into people (handguns/ar15s).
With a shotgun you can do enough raw damage that shooting someone anywhere will get the job done. Shoot em in the leg and they will probably lose the leg. Shoot em in the arm and they will probably lose the arm. Shoot em in the torso and they are probably dead. Shoot em in the head and they are almost certainly dead.
>>30646333
>Being shot in real life doesn't make a person fly backwards and immediately die.
Cite where I stated it was? In fact what I stated was quite the opposite, you seem to be jumping the gun to exude mundane knowledge on me.
>If 5.56 doesn't hit the spine, the brain, or the femur/patella/tibia/fibula then there's nothing physically stopping an attacker from continuing with his attack against you
Same with a 12 gauge slug.
>There's no gritty your teeth and walking off a massive crater of fleshing being eviscerated by 12 gauge buckshot
It's still a round that adheres to the physiological principles you just stated. Unless a core vital is hit, you will not die fast enough to not still remain a threat physically.
>even birdshot at obnoxiously close distances
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWUZIWPydCU
Oh?
>Anyone who gets shot squarely in the torso with 12 gauge at close disances is going to either be dead or incapacitated.
Oh?
>>30646450
No, you get one, at home defense distances the shot doesn't have time to spread significantly enough to matter. Stop spreading this moronicism.
>>30646553
Humans don't have damage meters, sorry.
>>30644459
Don't listen to the ARfags OP, get the Benelli M4
With the benelli you can shoot loads that VEPR 12s and Saiga 12s can't, as well as being nice to shoot and very awesome to own.
Get the M4 lad, you won't regret it
>>30646345
>no recoil
Do you fucking understand the physics of recoil?
>gas bled off from bore
>goes into expansion chamber and starts rotating the bolt to unlock
>bolt carrier goes backwards with the recoil buffer, cocking the hammer
Everything a gun does while cycling takes force off of recoil, the AR-15 especially with it's recoil buffer, not to talk about the weight of the projectile itself mattering immensely.
Retards like you are why .50GI doesn't stay inside ISPC
>>30646457
Right, I'll post the M193 wounding just for you, you fudd piece of shit.
This shit is even worse when it hits bone, we're talking "this limb will have to come off" tier injuries.
>>30646798
>This shit is even worse when it hits bone, we're talking "this limb will have to come off" tier injuries.
Here here.
>>30646614
Nine .32 caliber pellets are going to cause a big wound channel at 10 yards. Big wound channel=more likelihood to hit something vital.
>>30647126
>fire off 3 to 5 shots with 5.56mm rifle
>achieve same effect with a good defensive load
>>30647126
>Big wound channel=more likelihood to hit something vital.
Incorrect, proper shot placement is more likelihood to hit something vital, a big wound channel just increases the total tissue destroyed. Honestly think about it, you miss just slightly with a 5.56 against a vital, where a shotgun wound channel would nick the vital. How much stake do you put in this? Do you really put your faith in a slightly larger wound channel, or 3 to 4 times the amount of follow up shots to put the target down?
>>30644459
You should into Benelli and never look back OP
>>30647213
With a M4 you could easily rattle off three or four follow up shots if you wanted to. The way you are using shot placement is a meme. If you shoot some in the chest, a 12 gauge is going to do more damage than 5.56 most of the time.
>>30646820
>5.56 is for wounding
I love when idiots spout that shit.
>>30646160
>no bully plz
I wasn't joking at all. 20 gauge youth model would probably suit you pretty well. It has a really short LOP and 20 gauge still wrecks shit with the right loads.
>>30647213
We weren talking about follow up shots. We are talking about a single shot from an AR vs a 12 guage. And we aren't talking about a single shot break action shotgun, so it's not like you cant follow up with a shotgun. Doesnt matter because this is all about likelihood of stopping a threat with a single shot from either platform.
>>30644459
Get yourself a good 'ol slap gun. Gets the job done every time bud.
>>30646614
>>If 5.56 doesn't hit the spine, the brain, or the femur/patella/tibia/fibula then there's nothing physically stopping an attacker from continuing with his attack against you
>Same with a 12 gauge slug.
It doesn't fucking matter where you get hit in the torso if it's a 12 gauge slug. You're either dead or dying at that point. A 12 gauge slug isn't going to poke a slightly bigger whole, it's going to wreck a fucking crater into a person. Even if that crater doesn't hit spine/etc they are still going to be 100% out of the fight.
">even birdshot at obnoxiously close distances
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWUZIWPydCU [Embed]"
He said that his arm was shot off by the birdshot. If it can shoot someone's arm off then it's automatically a metric fuck ton stronger than 5.56 and is obnoxiously lethal. Birdshot at short distances is crazy obnoxiously lethal. It's an ounce of lead being shot out of a 12 gauge fucking shotgun that hasn't spread more than 3 inches.
What do you even do with a semi automatic shotgun? I've never heard of a range that would allow it, and even if they did, what would you do over than go boom boom? It's not like you can target shoot with it.
>>30647328
I run plate racks with my vepr 12 from about 30 meters at my local range
>>30644459
Don't let your dreams be dreams
>do it faggot, make me jealous
>>30647325
Fucking hell. Tough kid, jesus.
>>30647281
That's the point though, the AR can follow up much faster and with less recoil, less risk of overpenetration, more precision.
A couple of shots of M193 can do similar damage to a 00 load.
>>30647255
>The way you are using shot placement is a meme
The fuck are you on about, you hit a vital or you don't lol.
>>30647263
When did I spout that?
>>30647281
Yes, a shotgun does more damage, no it doesn't make you more accurate by making a larger wound cavity.
holy shit faggots in this thread who don't understand wounding mechanisms
> how could recoil possibly factor into tissue damage?
I just gave my pacifist girlfriend a rant, she wasnt interested, on
>CNS disruption
>exsanguination, hypovolemia, hypoxia
>being surprised and in pain at a projo hitting you
pic could not be moar related
parhaat terveiset SAW gunner 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009 OIF, inb4 thank you for your cervix, its just relevant in this specific instance
>>30647325
>If it can shoot someone's arm off
Like an AR-15 can? >>30646820
The M16 was infamous for destroying limbs in Vietnam
>>30647328
Skeet shooting
Hunting
Three Gun Competition
>>30647325
>Birdshot at short distances is crazy obnoxiously lethal
Would a 20 gauge shotgun still be effective at home defense while reducing the chances of permanent major hearing damage?
>>30647408
He's a trooper.
>>30647629
It'll do fine (it has less of a projectile load so it recoils less), but a long gun indoors is a long gun indoors, get electronic hearing protection and keep it by your HD gun.
>>30647503
Here. This is for you.
If the fucker gets up, you can always SHOOT HIM AGAIN AT POINT BLANK RANGE, y'know.
>>30647452
Limb needing to be removed afterwards =/= limb being immediately removed (hanging on only by bits of skin). Imagine that kind of carnage that can completely de-limb a person, but on the torso instead.
>>30647696
is that a dead guy or was he okay?
>>30647703
Have you considered a less violent, more civilized hobby?
>>30647703
>hanging on only by bits of skin
Yes, the M16 was known to do this in Vietnam.
>>30647744
I can't tell if you're trolling or actually that stupid. You believe that an intermediate cartridge can instantly de-limb a person? You're probably one of those people who uses .40 over 9 for "stopping power".
>>30647696
>deliberate surgical opening
>same as birdshot wound
You wat?
>>30647696
yet again it amazes me that phil remembers to breathe long enough to shitpost
>>30647898
>you have to cut someone open to remove broken bone, BBs, and to replace the bone that's been destroyed
whoa
>>30648019
I don't think you understand that the wound isn't fatal or even debilitating.
>>30647795
>You believe that an intermediate cartridge can instantly de-limb a person
>moves at 3000fps
Where do you think that velocity goes when it hits bone? It's called cavitation.
http://www.futurefirepower.com/myths-about-the-nato-556-cartridge
5.56x45mm has no trouble turning bone and joints into splinters, with the only thing holding the limb on is a bunch of horribly mangled flesh.
with all the shitposting i lost track, did /k/ approve of benelli m4 or not?
>not even OP
>>30648527
Naw, it sucks and is overpriced.
>>30648527
Literally just make a slap gun with 12 gauge slugs. You fuckers on /k/ don't need to spend hundreds of dollars just to off somebody.
>>30644459
Op is a fgt - your friendly neighborhood Heartbreak2. Op knows
So what I'm gleaning from this thread is that the VEPR 12 is not only the best shotgun for home defense, it's also the best gun ever made, and would make a perfect hunting/defense/crowd dispersal/militia/military outfit weapon.
Should the whole world adopt the VEPR 12 for every purpose?
I don't really know how it performs in the field or in adverse conditions, but the Mossberg 930 SPX is fun as hell. My brother uses it in 3 gun and I've always had a great time shooting it.
Get the m4 OP. They're the GOAT
>>30647328
>I've never heard of a range that would allow it
Lmao what shit hole ranges do you go to?
>the wound isn't fatal or even debilitating.
>debilitating
Nigger what? You're telling me you'd still be able to effectively fight the upper portion of your humerus is shattered?
>>30648973
Forgot to link >>30648060 for the second greentext
>>30648973
>You're telling me you'd still be able to effectively fight the upper portion of your humerus is shattered?
You realize people have done that before?
Hey guys it's OP here, I've been reading all day I like the conversations. For the AR guys this is what i'm currently using for home defense.
>>30649558
Well you certainly ain't beyond buying an expensive product.
>filename
I lelled.
But honestly, you have a fancy rifle, and a fancy pistol, might as well get a fancy shotgun too.
Also some day you gotta get yourself a fancy revolver, a fancy subgun/carbine, a fancy bolt gun, and a fancy .22 rifle
>>30649848
wat a goddam fancy life. sign me up too
