How the hell is this cartridge still in service? This shit is ancient.
>>30606499
People get killed with rocks. Shit is pre-historic. Still works.
>>30606499
Why don't they just take the rim off of it?
>>30606510
Then it wouldn't be compatible with all the current weapons in that caliber.
There's nothing wrong with the rim except for mags and rimlock.
>Why is this .30 round that feeds like a dream through some of the best GPMGs ever made, and has mountains of surplus to draw from, still in service
Gee anon, you tell me.
>>30606518
>nothing wrong with the rim
>except theres something wrong with the rim
>>30606499
How the hell is this cartridge still in service? This shit is ancient.
>>30606518
Rimlock really only happens to morons anyways.
They major use of the cartridge is also in belt fed weapons, where it doesn't matter.
>>30606499
Because it works, they have a shitload of guns chambered in it, and designing a new cartridge would serve little purpose. It is at a very similar level to 308 in terms of power.
>>30606536
Yeah, the PKM jams all the time trying to feed it from its double-stack mag.
>>30606538
10 MM SOON
ZENITH PISTOLS EVERYWHERE
>>30606540
My understanding is its closer to 30-06 in power, but it's ballistics suck ass compared to .308 and 30-06
>>30606538
Agreed, why haven't we moved to a true straight walled 9mm yet?
>>30606533
>some of the best GPMGs ever made
lol
>>30606551
The ballistics are going to be very similar. The only difference between a 308 FMJ and a 7.62x54 FMJ is that the 7.62 will be two thousandths bigger.
30-06 is noticeably hotter in terms of the velocities that can be achieved than 308 of 7.62x54. 30-06 is a very large high capacity case, and the things it can do out of a strong receiver reflect that.
Not that the 308 or 7.62x54 are cold by any means. They can do most of the things a 30-06 can do, and are very very similar.
In short, what you said makes little sense, and frankly reads like a random stream of ballistics themed words.
Considering a 150gr bullet, 308 is capable of 2900 (and change) FPS. 30-06 is capable of 3000 (and change) FPS. Finally, the 7.62x54 can do 2885 FPS.
Of course, those are all stupid hot loads.
>>30606551
>My understanding is its closer to 30-06 in power
This meme will never die
7.62x51 M80 ball and the standard Russian 7.62x54r are nearly identical in both weight and velocity. 30-06 M2 ball ammo is about an extra 100 ft-lbs of force over both. Kill yourself for repeating this shit
>>30606506
Fpbp
>>30606552
What's the problem with the slight taper?
>>30606555
He's right, the PKM and later Pecheneg are very good GPMGs.
Russia is too lazy to develop a better bullet
The US saw the value in switching from .30-06 to 7.62x51, but Russia just kicks back and does nothing
>>30606954
Making it rimless would serve no point when it's still good, see: >>30606518
>>30606601
>>30606686
>>30606950
9mm para tends to nosedive in mags because of the slight taper of the cartridge
What's wrong with it?
>>30607004
OK, for GPMG, where belts are the norm.
Bad for anything (DMR, sniper, etc) that needs a mag.
Reminder that the Dragunov has a 10 round magizine due to rimlock issues, while 7.62 Nato are all 20 rounders.
>>30606954
Not at all and I'm as Ameriboo as they come. The US foolishly adopted a round that didn't really have a need instead of using an intermediate like the Russians. Russia didn't care about having a rimless round because they correctly foresaw the reality that "full size" cartridges would be for beltfeds nearly exclusively in future conflicts, snowflake opr8ing aside.
It's a good thing the US wasted time with 7.62 as we got 5.56 out of the deal which was vastly superior to 1st gen assault rifle rounds like 7.62x39/8mm kurz. In fact Russia essentially copied it with 5.45x39 and only muh stopping powa Amerifats and poverty tier troops cling to 7.62x39m.
>>30607020
>tends to nosedive
Don't buy ProMags
>>30607114
7mm and 6.5mm is overall superior than 7.62 or 5.56 in an intermediate cartridge. Should have kept the 7x49 Second Optimum.
>>30606510
The rim aids in extraction in extreme temperatures. Plus, why fix what isn't broken?
>>30607209
>Single cartridge meme
Go away Ian.
>>30608091
>Single cartridge meme
>Implying
I never implied or said anything for single cartridges. I only said 7mm and 6.5mm is the superior caliber for the intermediate cartridge, and that they should have kept the 7mm or 6.5mm intermediate cartridges, while having the full power 7.62 NATO instead of having the US cucked the organization with their slightly more pressured varmint rounds.
>>30608234
No.
>>30608265
And yet, we have studies showing that the prime caliber for the intermediate platform is 6.5-7mm range. You want proofs?
>>30608280
Different anon, but I do.
>>30608280
No because I've read studies that have said, .45 , .22, 8mm, .38, 308 where all ideal calibers for intermediate platforms.
Lightweight is the begetter of innovation in small arms currently. We'll see 6.5 CT come online and once they try, and fail, to replace the lighter 5.56 with it a >5mm CT round will be made for infantry use.
>>30606545
>10mm
>not .357 magnum/special
Pleb.
>>30608353
Fugg I meant <5mm.
>>30606499
>MFW
>>30608280
For what purpose, in which gun, under which context? Gib studies pls. Maybe 7mm is better for colonial policing in desert shitholes, but 5.56 is superior by firepower and most importantly weight for close range firefights against equally competent enemies? Maybe there's a good reason the russians chose an even smaller and weaker round as their new standard infantry round, instead of just necking down 7.62x39 slightly?
>>30608506
Russia is replacing 5.45x49mm? But it's such a good performer!
>>30606542
Hey i didnt say it you did
>>30606499
If it ain't broke don't fix?
>>30608630
I was referring to 5.45 being the smaller and weaker round m8.
(Oh btw. the germans in the 80s decided that even smaller 4,73 × 33 mm was sufficient for their purposes, though that one was never put to the test.)
>>30608682
Well the projectile might not have the same weight, but I think the added velocity and range, with the lower weight, is well worth it.
>>30608366
What about 5mm remington?
>>30608645
Protip; PKMs are belt-fed. You weren't even trying.
>>30608779
What about the myriad of other larger or smaller rounds that have nothing to do with the premise of my statement?
How the hell is THIS cartridge still in service? Jeff Cooper and his fudd ass died off years ago...
>2016
>modern .45 fullsize pistol
>barely scrapes a 11 round capacity
pretty fr*ckin embarrasing...
>>30608795
I know this, re read my statement you cant say there is nothing wrong with the rim if there is something wrong with the rim, sure it only applys to mag feds and bolt actions but still,
>>30608799
Yea
>>30608800
>barely 11
*cough*
>>30608800
>fr*ckin
>>30608800
>>30608795
No. There are PKM's with magazine in Best Korea. It can even fire fucking rifle grenades
thanks to Dear Leader.
>>30609077
>rare and obscure variant in some country which hasn't gone to war with anyone and who doesn't tell anyone about anything
>>30609077
The fuck kind of heresy is that took holding.
What if someone made a revolver that ate nugget food?
>>30609265
I'm fairly sure that Best Korea tells all kinds of things about unicorns, great leader, dear leader, great successor and shieeet.
>>30609299
Chromed type 73, basically PKM with dual feed, capability for rifle grenades and offset sights.
>>30607020
>9mm tends to nosedive in mags
Yeah, that's why floorplates on any mag worth a shit is tilted upwards.
>>30606499
ItJustWerks™
why reinvent the wheel if the current wheel works just fine?
>>30609000
Is this even real? If so info please.
>>30608340
>>30608506
>>30608353
>http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011smallarms/WednesdayAmmo11456Schatz.pdf
>http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2010armament/WednesdayLandmarkBAnthonyWilliams.pdf
>http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/F-Working-papers/SAS-WP23-cartridge-technologies.pdf
>Schatz, Jim. "Independent Small Arms Consultant, Time for Change: Incremental Improvement of US Small Arms & Ammunition Presentation." 23rd Small Arms & Cannons Symposium, Shrivenham (August 2009).
>http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1340447
>http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20120831_art004.pdf
>http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a512331.pdf
>>30609448
holy shit, people are still using Mosins in combat?
but it's old, it's a bolt-action, and it only holds 5 rounds, what is the point
>>30609696
Poorfags gonna poor.
ISAF troops in Afghanistan still occasionally take fire from Lee-Enfields or muskets.
>>30609696
Cheap
Millions of mosins
Billions of spam tins
It doesn't have to be black, edgy and from call of duty to kill you know
>>30609370
It would be extremely painful.
>>30609696
If you're a guerilla fighter, and what you have to pick between is a Chinese 91/30 copy and Umbebe's slick-ass pipe shotgun, what will you pick?
Keep in mind, the Chink Nugget comes with a pretty decent pointy bayonet so you can use it as a spear when necessary.
>>30609713
>Millions of mosins
just how many did they make? they're going to have to run out of stock eventually!
>>30609800
60 million 91/30s exist today
>>30608353
>No because I've read studies that have said, .45 , .22, 8mm, .38, 308 where all ideal calibers for intermediate platforms.
>>30609670
Okay?
>>30609813
I think the number of 91/30s and 91/30 copies are somewhere in the 40 million range, then with a rough 20 milllion of assorted other models.
>>30609751
Fuck off /tv/
>>30609370
It would make Russian roulette a lot more entertaining
>>30609370
top strap btfo probably
>>30608800
Jeff Cooper was no fudd.
Fudd doesn't mean "whatever I don't like." It doesn't even mean, "not modern." Fudd has a specific meaning. Try learning what that meaning is, and use the term correctly.
>>30609696
This triggers the COD-kiddy.
>>30606954
>>tfw we will never have 7.62x45 or 7x41 or 6x49 rifles or GPMGs or even smgs in .223 timbs
>>30609696
This one from Ukraine also.
>>30609000
>COME ON BABY SHOW ME THE HERESY
>>30610907
Is that an EO Tech sight on a Mosin?
>>30609696
These machine guns are extraordinarily effective on the modern field of battle when used according to their strengths. No modern arm has the sustained rate of fire these do. They are older than half of the nation's in the U.N.
>>30610930
What's the Russian name equivalent of bubba?
>>30606510
It's rimmed for the extractors pleasure
>>30610940
there's a reason maxims are used only by forces with financial problems.
You see anyone, even the crysis-of-currency tier russians use it?
No.
They are antiquated. If they were as good as you claim they'd be used everywhere
>>30606499
Backwards compatibility and fall of the USSR.
>>30611010
bubski
>>30611010
bubbamir bubbavocich bubbaski
>>30611159
i would have gone with bubbanov
>>30611097
They see limited use because they're heavy and unwieldy, but once in position (and kept topped off on cooling water) They can literally fire for days without stopping.
A machine gun is a machine gun.
>>30606510
Yeah that's what I was wondering as well. They could keep the cartridge but just remove the rim, and update all guns chambered for it by simply changing the bolt head.
>>30610861
make the top strap like a full half inch thick in even its weakest place?
>>30606601
I gave your mom a stupid hot load last night
>>30611250
PKM needs more changes than bolt head as it delinks rounds on the rear movement of the bolt. Also headspacing by the rim.
>>30606499
TFW you will never drive around in a max pro with 54r spam cans in it...
Why are you Alive?
>>30611014
Underrated post.
>based dougan
>>30606499
I am currently the largest importer of 7.62x54r and wholesaler in the US market + military. See pic related of some in warehouse.
Its still in service because half the LMG and DMRs in combat are chambered in it.
>>30611522
is all that ammo corrosive?
>>30611522
[spoiler]If I didn't know where the can opener was when I opened my first crate does that make me a retard[/spoiler]
>>30611522
are you selling it yourself or just import/supply
>>30611582
Yes, we filled 20 million rounds for gov export contract. Then had 1 million extra which came to the US for shits and giggles.
Now running 4 million US MADE 7.62x54r non-corrisve AP match for another Gov Contract. Probably 500k of that will go to US market too.
>>30611602
Ha, no that factory 188 likes to sneak them in that little nooky.
>>30611620
I own several companies, so yes to both questions. We've sold to importers and distributors throughout the years.
Ask me anything else you want to know before I go back to /B.
>>30608800
Not using fudd correctly. Confirmed for noguns dumbass.
>>30611250
Ok, but why?
>>30611097
Yes. Maneuver is better overall than the one advantage maxims have over modern guns. That doesn't negate the fact that as a fixed position gun that you lay in a trench or equivalent, maxims have no equal. They can literally fire for 17 days straight without major malfunction. That's constant fire, as fast as the loader can swap the belts. Try that with an M249 or hell, even a PKM.
>>30609696
The alpine dudes use them because they don't freeze up and can start a fire in a pinch.
>>30611635
Will we ever see more cheap surplus in the US?
>>30609773
>Umbebe's slick ass pipe shotgun
Kekkles
>>30610296
Fram? Really?
>>30612538
No, FRAMMM
>>30609696
>holy shit, people are still using Mosins in combat?
Yes.
>>30612250
Only if you elect Trump.
>>30612250
We are still buying it cheap overseas, but it is drying up everywhere but Russia due to the conflicts in Syria/Iraq.
I don't see the prices ever coming down in the US. We could retail it for $.20 a round again, but we'd just sell all 1 million in 1 hour instead of 1 week.
>>30611635
>>30611522
>>30612614
What the heck is that?
>>30611522
Def not just a warehouse fag, tell me which stores you distribute to, and how many crates per pallet
>>30612859
Not going to break anonymity by naming distributors but my companies are the only importers this whole year.
Its about 34 crates per pallet, if you slide sideways crates in between the stacks.
630,000 rounds per container.
Next government contract may be for 40 million rounds, will have some workers snap pictures of 40 million rounds of 54R for you all.
>>30612838
Looks like a modernized mosin
>New stock
>New muzzle
>New bolt handle
Part of me wants to say it's probably a police weapon. Also, what kind of bag is that in the lower right?
>>30612838
>>30613050
Same anon, just looked it up, apparently it's a TKIV 85, which is basically a Mosin in 7.62x53R that's used by the Finnish Defense Force.
>>30611522
hey man I missed you
please just make a bi weekly thread or something
>>30611635
How high is your electricity bill?
>>30612790
Where do you get your machinery?
>>30612790
desu I would still pay 30cpr for that stuff
>>30611635
What do you think the chances are that Tula, Wolf or Brown Bear will start loading cheap steelcase .300BLK ball ammo?
>>30612538
It's hard to tell but he got hit with an oil filter.
>>30609696
mosin works fine
>>30613018
>mfw I thought 2000 rounds was a lot
>>30611522
can i has nugget food pls ?
>>30610898
alright I'm tired of not knowing who this guy is.
The title is obviously taken from an Onion or Cracked article, but whos the painting of?
And for that matter who's that fucking old dude with the half smile who looks like he wants to kill himself all the time?
>>30613177
Typically on /B. But I'll stop in every now and then.
>>30613278
My cartridge casing and FMJ plant is $2,400 a month running transfer presses + deep draw lines. Still not bad.
>>30613378
I produce all my own cartridge equipment, other than draw presses, cold headers, and transfer presses. I have a full automation/engineering team in the company and own my own machine shop so it helps. See attached.
>>30613478
We price based on market, if I had competition you'd see prices go down. But this stuff is running out.
>>30613583
Their tooling costs are absolutely nuts compared to mine. I can tool up for a cartridge for say $50k, their continuous motion line costs $1 million minimum per new caliber.
I have tons of videos+pics of their plants and equipment. I will be producing steel case 300 blk in the future, but my brass case Is already cheaper than their steel case.
>>30613764
I'll post up 2 million loose 9mm's next time im on here.
>>30614190
Only in exchange for sexual favors.
I'll be back later if this thread is still alive.
>>30613097
Yup, sniper rifle M/85 for Finnish military, still in active use along other sniper rifles.
>>30607045
Sniper rifles and battle rifles are two different things dummy
>>30606545
God yes. I need that magic subsonic ap.
Will also take caseless .357mag that feeds from a cog. I prefer it over manually detonated .44s
>>30614635
w-what do I have to do for one spam can ?
[spoiler] no butt stuff [/spoiler]
>>30614635
You are a god
>>30611522
>Ask me anything
New production or milsurp?
Where the fuck did all the milsurp stuff go?
Also thank you for your work. I fucking love 54r.
>>30609696
Finland uses, in some cases, late 1800's mosin receivers in their TKIV rifles
>>30606555
great contribution you fucking fag
>>30614289
maybe reverse image search you mong
>>30606601
>two thousandths bigger
Three hundredths bigger*
>>30616807
It IS two thousandths you autistic nigger
.x=10th
.xx=100th
.xxx=1000th
>>30610296
2big4u?
>>30606601
>7.62 will be two thousandths bigger.
Wrong, the 7.62 is called that because of the bore, the actual bullet is 7.92mm, whereas the .308 is 7.82mm.
>>30610296
1. I've never heard a noise describable as fram.
2. The fuck is that baby hand doing there?
>>30608630
They(as a whole WP) had a plan to move to some 7mm cartridge I don't remember but due to financial problems they've dropped the idea all together. Kinda like AN-94 where it is simply too expensive so even it's interesting design features and good overall performance didn't made it a winner.
>>30611097
The problem with Maxim MG's and the numerous derivatives of it is weight and weight only. Otherwise nobody would ever want to replace them. The action is literally perfect, the cooling is great, accuracy with short bursts is wonderful etc. etc. etc. The deal is that moving it around is so much of a pain in the ass(especially after you've shot let's say 10 belts and don't have it wheeled like Russians did) that most armies progressively got rid of it, although British for example, only did so because they've had to adapt 7.62.
>>30614635
Can I have a job with you
>>30617472
You're incorrect my friend, most any actual projectile for 7.62 be it for x39,x54r,x51 etc are in the .308-.312 diameter range and can readily be confirmed if you have a bullet and pair of calipers
Would it be hypotheticaly possible to hand-craft small batches of AP ammunition?
>>30617763
Yes. You could go about it in multiple ways however some will be far more labour intensive than others.
>>30606533
>some of the best GPMGs ever made
lol
>>30617843
So at what point does a piece of tungsten alloy become a projectile core? What differentiates it from, say, a nail?
>>30617843
>cast lead swc
>mill hole about 3/4 of length tip to base
>fit hardened steel pin/rod/whatever
>cut it to fit flush
>solder it in
>gas check bullet for safety I guess
There you go, cheap improvised AP. Please don't hurt yourself
>>30609370
Revolvers don't handle bottleneck cases well, although a rimmed bottleneck may perform slight better. IIRC, most of those issues related to extraction.
>>30614635
>I will be producing steel case 300 blk in the future
Pls make subsonic and supersonic
>>30616879
7.62x51
7.62x54
>51
>54
Daily reminder that this guy
>>30614635
Is an anti-gun asshole who doesn't give two shits about improving America's gun laws
In previous threads he has said that he is "fine with the NFA", among other things
What a prick
>>30617878
>cast lead swc
I think it is better to start with manufactured ammo. Take cooper bullet drill hole from the tip. Use preferably banded bullets as solid core can be bad for groves but bands will squeeze around core easily. Evacuate your dog.
>>30608630
is it?
>>30618018
What company should I not buy from?
>>30608360
>10mm
>More Powerfull than the .357 mag
>larger Capacity
>that guy a pleb.
Youre a fucking retard aint ya?
>>30614635
Is their difference in production cost between 7.62x51 and 7.62x54 cases?
>>30611250
Not true. This would also change the headspacing from the rim to the neck.
>>30618005
What are you trying to tell me ? I genuinely want to spread correct information so if I can help I will
>>30607045
the Dragunov has a 10 round magazine because you can't shoot from a prone position with a 20 round magazine
>>30618906
>he doesn't know about soviet art of long cat magazine prone
>>30612614
>>30613050
>>30613097
>>30614645
>>30615761
If the Mosin was/is good enough for the Finns, then it's good enough for me
>>30618985
That's a support weapon which has to be mobile a lot, not quite the same thing.
>>30618699
probably
>>30618758
So change the barrel as well.
>>30608395
>clothing will never again be as swag as it was back then
>>30620114
Ok, but what is making it rimless and changing all the weapons to accept this new cartridge supposed to be actually good for?
>>30620461
this aswell as liberals saying that killing thing has been upgraded to be more killerer
>>30620461
You can pack it closer in crates and box magazines?
>rimmed
into the trash it goes, enjoy your rim lock
>>30621178
>doesn't like rimmed for extractors pleasure
Faggot
>>30621050
Small gains to me.
>>30621178
>belt fed
>rimlock
>>30618018
>>30618402
>What company should I not buy from?
This.
also,
>proofs
>>30618005
the bullet diameter not case length, even though Russian ammo says 7.62 which is .308, it is actually .311 and just marked 7.62.
>>30606499
You'll learn when you get a little older, that everything new sucks.
>>30614635
>>30611522
>>30615530
Only in bed.
>>30615600
If you mean 54r? I do both. New production using imported casings in the US.
I and a few other big players in the global market sent all the milsurp to the DOD/Government for their wars.
Good to see a 54R loving brother. I'll be sure to keep the supply in the US going best I can.
>>30617702
Sex slave?
>>30617763
>>30617843
>>30617878
I did produce some a year back: 500k belted for a MoD customer. I plated M2 30-06 AP with .003" copper plating to .311 and loaded it in pull down casings with SMP powder.
>>30618018
>>30618402
>>30621795
I'm pro gun and am the largest single reason the online ammo sales bill failed. This guy just mad that I'm not lobbying to repeal NFA for him and thus every thread bitches and calls me a fag, lol.
>>30618699
For just casings? I couldn't say for Tula, but for me it would be about 5-6% more for 54R than 308. But I would tool up for US made steel case 308 way before I did 54R.
>>30615509
No butt stuff? I got some K&Y Cosmoline.
>>30607882
>The rim aids in extraction in extreme temperatures.
someone explain how this works to me, how exactly does having a rim help when it's cold?
>>30622600
I don't know what he's getting at exactly, but the large rim gives the extractor a lot of material to grip onto, meaning it'll have an easier time extracting in any situation.
>>30619002
That's not entirely accurate. While we still use the TKIV 85, it's so heavily modified that it's barely a Mosin anymore. Even the older ones had very little in common with original Mosins. So only settle for the best, if you insist on sticking with Mosins. We do it only because we don't have money for new rifles.
Pic related is the future.
>>30622368
>For just casings?
Is there difference in bullets and another costs for complete round?
>>30622368
>I'm pro gun and am the largest single reason the online ammo sales bill failed. This guy just mad that I'm not lobbying to repeal NFA for him and thus every thread bitches and calls me a fag, lol.
So you want the NFA repealed, you're just not sperging out about about it in a way a certain anon would like you to, so he now calls you anti-gun?
>>30609813
34 million total is how many were made.
>>30609696
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmoNFJyeb-E
>>30622368
Do you want to start a company in Iceland with me?
>>30606954
Silly capitalist pig, you don't change what is already perfect.
>>30609696
It's an accurate, powerful, and reliable weapon. It would be fucking garbo in close combat, but when you're just plinking at Western troops from 300m and then disappearing back into your goat herd it would be just perfect.
>>30625375
>accurate
nice try
>>30609077
>all that vegetation
>holding a shining metal MG
10/10 norks
>>30609696
You pull the trigger and it goes boom. In a guerilla warfare scenario you can pluck a dude and then run away, sustained combat is your enemy so one or two shots is all you need.
>>30609696
IIRC finland still uses mosin receivers and bolts for their snipers.
>>30625375
>accurate
It's kind of mediocre, Carcano tier, except ammunition was actually consistent
>shoot from a crowd
>300m away
>"Gee Achmed, did you hear a big boom right next to you right now?"
>"I don't know Omar, maybe it was that guy with the long ass rifle who's running away just now?"
>Achmed, if I make my goat wear a burqa, is it still a sin to copulate with it?
>"Guys what the fuck was that, my left ear is bleeding and it smells like fireworks"
>"We think that guy over there with the gun shot it next to your ear, Hakim."
>>30625596
The Norks aren't the sharpest tools in the shed but those are obviously parade weapons, it's specially decorated by an artisan to stand out and look flashy for the purposes of military parades.
>>30609696
>>30625667
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_Tkiv_85
Yep Finland still uses the mosin nagant. Worked well for them last time, why not.
>>30611582
No, you can get 7.62x54r that isn't corrosive
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/762x54R%20Novosibirsk%20148grn%20NON-CORROSIVE.html
