Hussein vs ISIS
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
After trump people have been saying if hussein stayed in power we would not have ISIS. It's my opinion that saddams Iraq is much more dangerous than ISIS. Tell me where I'm wrong, /k/.
Saddam.
>Controlled all of iraq with force when none of the populace liked each other.
>Conquered Syria in under a week.
>Was the strongest military in the Desert with one of the top 5 air forces at the time and a well trained mechanized force that did not rely on allah to give them victory. (See Syria invasion planning)
ISIS
>Has not conquered syria.
>Has not conquered iraq.
>Losing ground to armies that were dropping guns and running a year ago. Also farmer rebel groups.
>Has no power to influence the world economy to the point of it being a negotiation tool.
>Biggest attacks on the US are "mass shooters".
>>30592371
>Conquered Syria in under a week.
You mean Kuwait? Because conquering Kuwait then wasn't a hard task considering he had one of the largest armies in the world at his disposal at the time.
Plus he thought that the Americans had given him permission to invade Kuwait. Saddam's only fault was that he didn't come crawling back after misreading the horribly prepared message that the US was trying to tell him with regards to the Iraqi-Kuwaiti oil dispute.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/gulf-war-documents-meeting-between-saddam-hussein-and-ambassador-to-iraq-april-glaspie/31145
Saddam would have stayed loyal and relatively stable (and through that the country, shame about what he did to the Kurds tho). Had he continued to control the country, and Iran would most likely be even weaker regionally as Iraq would have moved to counter its growth in relative power in the region.
Not outright defending him, just stating some facts and what I perceive would have happened had he never been deposed/got attacked by the US.
>>30592460
An excerpt from the link
"U.S. Ambassador Glaspie – We have no opinion on your Arab – Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960′s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)"
>>30592460
>>30592476
Oops. Yes, Kuwait. Can't believe I mixed those two. How would his army fair against ISIS fighters though?
>>30592712
It would absolutely shit on them.
>>30592371
Saddam is not destroying the Ancient and Medieval heritage of the Middle East for shits and giggles. He also had no plans to conquer the whole region or attack Europe.
>>30592735
Would and did. The world was a far better place with Saddam and his effectively secular government keeping a lid on the snackbars. Those people that libshits and leftists were whining about Saddam having executed publicly or disappeared in the middle of the night? All progenitors of what is now ISIS.
>>30592371
that's where ur wrong, kiddo
B-)
>>30592371
Isn't the argument a moot point considering the presence of former Baathist party commanders and politicians amongst the ranks of ISIS?
>>30592819
Go on.
>>30592858
>power-hungry individuals drawn to centralizations of power
I think former state operatives fit that bill
>>30592371
Don't worry, dudes like Saddam will come out the woodworks in a couple years
>>30592878
So ultimately despite all the edgy hoopla of a caliphate from the ISIS media machine and the moral outrage from the western mass media superstructure the whole iraqi conflict is old school sectarian politics.
>>30592979
I don't doubt the ISIS footsoldiers buy into jihad
I seriously doubt the leaders of the movement do. I'm positive they're motivated by control of Iraq's oil fields.
>>30592371
>Iraq is much more dangerous
For whom?
>>30592371
Pretty straight forward.
Isis is a direct result of the power vacuum created by Obama pulling our troops of Iraq before the country's military\police were stabilized.
Saddam was using chemical weapons on civilians, let's not forget that fact.
>>30593416
>before the country's military\police were stabilized.
They would NEVER be stabilized
Why would competent people be fighting for a fucking shitty puppet democracy?
I'm sure the US imposes all sorts of rules of engagement on them too, so the criminals/terrorists are free to act.
When Assad and his father controlled Syria, and Hussein controlled Iraq, the area was for the most part stable. And if they went nuts, it was confined to that country.
Saddam's Ba'athist officers gladly took command of the Sunni militias and used their knowledge of local geopolitics to gain power on the grounds of "the west killed your family or friends and this is the best way to combat that threat". They don't actively fight the west in their region anyway, it's a clusterfuck sectarian conflict in Iraq and every region treats ISIS differently. The Islamist millenials probably wouldn't have been religious extremists if Saddam was still in power but for 13 years now the only thing they know about the west is JDAMs, drone strikes, and American patrols down Main Street.
And in Syria, when places like Aleppo are controlled by the FSA, SDF, or ISIS, they all have a common enemy and that is Bashar Al Assad. And it's justified by the UN saying Assad used barrel bombs.
What else can he use? He didn't have a military prepared for a NATO intervention.
We made a fatal mistake by "liberating" Iraq and funding the liberators in Syria, and when that chicken comes home to roost we act like we are the victims.
>>30592371
SADDAM WAS REMOVED BECAUSE HE WAS TOO POWERFUL, SAME THING FOR GADAFFI AND MOZADEQ. ALL DUE TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK AND THE BUSH CLINTON CARTEL.
>>30592371
Hussein is IS, you mong.
IS is made up of former Baathists in its leadership roles. Its grunts are Sunnis from Iraq that were fans of Saddam.
There's some religious leaders and grunts, but most are ex-Iraqi army and Baathists
Based National Socialist ruler who the West had no right in taking out.
>>30593455
finally someone with some sense
>oh whats that saddam you want to fuck off to the euro and give the finger to the US petro-dollar well have some liberation
>oh whats that gaddafi you want a gold back system and say goodbye to central banking, sorry nato and the US has to bomb you know oh and you get a bowie knife shoved up your ass
>oh whats that assad, you want to use irans oil fields and pipe oil into europe in competition with the pipeline that goes straight through israel and is US backed, sorry have a civil war and a whole bunch of crazy islamists ruining your country
but burgers probably still believe saddam has things like WMD's or some shit still hidden away with kuwait bullion or some shit lol
>>30593487
Nobody from the US defends OIF except the 03's who got thrusted into that shitstorm and they mostly shitpost on social media about stolen valor and the usual Muhreen bullshit.
>>30593502
And there are a good number of them who speak out against it but there are still vets who act like they are captain America for being present during OIF.
>>30593487
gaddafi was a terrorist
Muslims are the enemies of christianity for the last 1400 years
fuck em
>>30593512
i like you
>>30593512
the thing is if the west had not begun to intervene there then there would've been no hostility. the west being white supremacy (the old kings of europe, all the bloodlines who control europe)
>>30592371
>Somewhere among ISIS's ranks are grizzled veterans of the Gulf War, Iraq War, and the Insurgency.
Jesus Christ talk of doing nothing but war your whole life.
>>30593607
What else are they gonna do? It's not like they haven't fucked every goat and raped every woman in their general vicinity
>>30593522
>the thing is if the west had not begun to intervene there then there would've been no hostility
?
?
?
?
did you drop out of history and never attended history class?
>>30593522
>the west being white supremacy (the old kings of europe, all the bloodlines who control europe)
Jesus FUCKING Christ. Kill yourself.
No one intervened, Arabs were contained on their peninsula, the weak state of the Roman Empire lead to the spread of Islam. Those people were fucking Christians for the most part you niggerlicker, Arabs either raped, forcibly converted or just killed them. Romans did something with North Africa, they used it and build it up. Guess what Arabs did? Destroy everything you pleb. Fuck you.
>>30593607
From all sides of the conflict too, which is fucking crazier
>>30592476
So we basically half assed a letter telling him he has the greenlight to invade Kuwait?
>>30593512
Kek. Crusaders sacked Constantinople, you vatnik. Crusaders also crusaded against eastern European kingdoms.
>>30593665
Thats how korea happened too
Probably others
Vietnam started on a lie
Pacific Fleet put in pearl harbor as bait for the japs
This is how you invent casus bellis and convince your citizenry that you are in the right when its the US starting wars
>>30593670
Myb byzantines shouldn't have massacred the latins huh
>>30593665
Yes. And Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraq oilfields which was the reason for Saddam's invasion. Everyone keep forgetting this. Kuwait was literally stealing Iraqi oil.
>>30593512
And had we not destabilize their government, we wouldn't have to deal with ten more hydra's head fucking over the Christians in the West. Use your goddamn head, you buffoon. Had the Islamist homeland remained stabilized, Europe wouldn't have to take advantage of the justification underwent for their bullshit open border shit.
>>30593680
>Europe wouldn't have to take advantage of the justification underwent for their bullshit open border shit.
This is completely unrelated
The migration is happening because of rampant treason at the top levels of european government, and probably because of Obama as well.
Which has nothing to do with iraq or libya.
>>30593671
Got to break a few eggs to make an empire.
>>30593680
absolutely this 500%
>>30593701
Its cause and effect. If ME is stable, than there are no refuges to come to Europe no matter how many open border traitors are at the head of EU
I'm gay
>>30594260
No and it is retarded to say this.
These two things walk hand in hand, you won't get one without the other. A stable middle east? Doesn't exist and never did under Arab rule, just like Golden Age of Islam and moderate muslims.
None of these things exist, open borders are never good unless your goal is to get fucked real hard.
>>30594260
most of them are not coming from the middle east
They are coming for the gimmedats
And if the ME was stable, they would be fucking invading europe since muslims are war mongering mass murderers by their religion
>>30592371
>After trump people have been saying if hussein stayed in power we would not have ISIS.
Technically true, because part of taking him out of power involve putting a few hundred million people out of work, and these people were recruited by ISIS.
>>30593671
>Pacific Fleet put in pearl harbor as bait for the japs
What's funny is in HoI4 the "Pearl Harbor Gambit" is literally parking your battleships in Hawaii so Japan will start a war so you can proceed to Smack all Japs.
I just thought it was funny to see this portrayed in a strategy game.
We really are to blame for a lot of the mess in the Middle East these days. Hindsight is 20/20, but how many times do we have to make the same mistakes before we stop fucking around?
>"Moderates" like Saddam, Gadaffi, Assaad, etc are propped up and supported for various reasons by the US, in particular the CIA
>"Terrorists" like Bin Laden are trained and armed by the US and the CIA
>When things don't go PRECISELY our way, we will turn our backs on these people, bomb them, destroy their societal support systems (infrastructure, government, political structures existing for 30 years)
Really, it's all very sad. The CIA is the biggest threat to our national security. Never forget that the CIA knew about the highjackers pre-9/11 and deliberately failed to notify the FBI, who could have stopped it. No, they were after the bigger fish, they may not have wanted the attack to happen in such a manner, but they wanted to play an international duck hunt. They were bored to tears after the end of the cold war.
>Oh, they probably killed JFK, too. Even if it was an accidental discharge by a SS agent.
>>30596356
And with regards to ISIS, we know who the fuck all these people are because we gambled on funding and arming Sunni Militias in the Iraqi Civil War in 08-09 hoping that it would stabalize the region. At the same time we put a brutal Shite shithead in power, and we act surprised when he goes after the Sunni militias when we cut tail and leave after 2010/2011?
We really fucked up. Really, really fucked up. And sadly, we'll never have a president who will be able to stop the CIA fuckery, and we'll never cop to being the worst world police ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TZypvhrbe8
>>30596356
CIA isn't responsible for most of the shit that goes down. Far more rests on the White House and department of state. Saddam would have never invaded Iran or Iraq without consent of State. Without Gulf 1 Osama would have remained in Sudan or better yet ended up in Russian fighting for the Chechens'. Hell even in Syria, its the WH and State that have fucked things up. If it was up to CIA the most pro west rebels would have won years ago. You have to remember that CIA is good at picking who it supports, the people they supported in Afghanistan remain US aligned even after US abandoned them, same in Libya. The problem comes when politicians start dictating policy, preventing CIA from maintaining its relationships. CIA picks a side and does what ever is needed to see its guys win, WH and State play publicity games, go back on promises and commitments. The first rule of international politics is to keep your word and its the WH that has the consistency problem not the CIA.
>>30596372
The Sunni militias you guys funded during the occupation were being assassinated and taken out with IEDs in droves after you guys left. Baghdad didn't continue to support or integrate them into the security forces.
The biggest factor in allowing ISIS or AQI to return was the civil war next door
>>30597481
Maliki fucked up. When ISIS started taking the Awaking sheikhs out, instead of doubling government support for them, he decided to play Saddam and kick everyone not loyal to him out, leaving a lot of young men leaderless and jobless. Maliki pulled a Bremer on Anbar.
