What are your thoughts on russian mi 28 and ka 52?
any other russian choppers welcome too
>>30576135
The nose cones make them look like cartoon mice.
>>30576135
The Mi-28 feels like any other attack heli, just a bit larger and with a much better gun.
The Ka-52 is really cool.
>>30576253
Doesn't the 52 have a limited range of motion on the gun pod? Something weird like 5 degrees in any direction.
>>30576253
is apache like any other attack heli?
>>30576135
that side by side design has to be the worst for pilot visibility. is there an ejection mechanism? I see det cord running through the top of the canopy.
>>30576281
>Doesn't the 52 have a limited range of motion on the gun pod? Something weird like 5 degrees in any direction.
Yes, its not really mobile at all.
>>30576281
Yeah, or AH-1, or the Tiger.
>>30576281
Think it's 5 deg to port and 13 degrees to starboard if i remember right
>>30576325
>is there an ejection mechanism? I see det cord running through the top of the canopy.
Yes.
>>30576253
> a much better gun.
the 2A42 recoil could took down the helicopter
>>30576358
so no more falling to your death when Haji shoves a stinger up your ass?
>>30576427
desu fampai I'd rather die quickly in a glorious death with my helicopter than get captured and have CNN broadcast my head getting chopped off
>>30576427
every Ka-52 is equipped with President-S anti IR missile system
so i don't think Stinger could touch them
the system active IR jammer is the silver thing next to the main gun
>>30576135
cool as fuck but severely underarmoured and bad at destroying things
cool but bad at destroying things
though maybe both will be better now that the russians have invented modern air-to-surface weapons
>>30576508
what are some helicopters that are good at destroying things?
>>30576508
>bad at destroying things
what are you talking about?
Russian MI-28N and Iraqi Mi-28NE are removing IS at god speed there are tons of video out there
>>30576508
>Mi-28
>Severely underarmoured
Pfffahahah!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbT-rvZoh_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eet10UdjetU&feature=youtu.be&t=48s
this is the so called Ka-52 ejection seat
Russia too poor to buy them in Significant quantities. Still using Mi-24 on the front line even in Syria.
>>30576508
>now that the russians have invented modern air-to-surface weapons
Lol. What was the contemporary American equivalent of this again?
>>30576807
that looks absolutely terrifying..
>>30576861
there are nothing wrong with Mi-24P and Mi-35M
other than the fact they just lost one of them in Syria
by IS Manpad
>>30576491
>every Ka-52 is equipped with President-S anti IR missile system
>so i don't think Stinger could touch them
>the system active IR jammer is the silver thing next to the main gun
Yeah and no T90s have been lost to Tows because of that missile protection system. Because that makes it so they cant touch them either.
/s
>>30576807
What's the point if the pilots limbs are severed and his neck is broken from the G's.
>>30577004
Shtora-1 and President-S doesn't work by the same principle
comparing ATGM to Manpads is just pure idiotic
>>30576946
>Lol. What was the contemporary American equivalent of this again?
An apache which is not lugging around a troop compartment that is useless 99 percent of the time. Escorting in a blackhawk to do the lifting.
The IFV concept does not work as well in the air as well as on the ground.
Maneuverability is life in the air. Armor Is for the ground.
Until darpa invent's rpg dodging tanks that is (which will probably never happen in our lifetime)
>>30577056
>doesn't work by the same principle
But still both made by russians.
>>30577076
>salty americans
>>30577103
Give me more than one time in iraq and afganistan where the apache would have been well served by being double the weight unloaded and triple the weight loaded with 8 guys and their gear.
>>30577088
This
F-117 is a stealth airplane the same as F-22. Its like the Serbs shot down an F-22.
>>30577076
>1976
>Apache
>Carrying ATGM
This American is of broken.
>>30576994
didnt they lose two
>>30577076
after afghanistan the troop compartment in the Mi-24 is used to carry scout and Spetsnaz
during georgia 2008, many Russian life were save by Mi-24
just look at this pic and work your brain
>>30577199
>>1976
>>Apache
>>Carrying ATGM
In 1968, a contract for full-scale production was awarded to Hughes, and by 1970 the system was being fielded by the U.S. Army. When adopted, the BGM-71 series replaced the M40 106 mm recoilless rifle and the MGM-32 ENTAC missile system then in service. The missile also replaced the AGM-22B then in service as a heli-borne anti-tank weapon.
1972 Vietnam: first combat use[edit]
On 24 April 1972, the U.S. 1st Combat Aerial TOW Team arrived in South Vietnam; the team's mission was to test the new anti-armor missile under combat conditions.[10] The team consisted of three crews, technical representatives from Bell Helicopter and Hughes Aircraft, members of the United States Army Aviation and Missile Command, and two UH-1B helicopters; each mounting the XM26 TOW weapons system, which had been taken from storage. After displacing to the Central Highlands for aerial gunnery, the unit commenced daily searches for enemy armor.[10] On 2 May 1972, U.S. Army UH-1 Huey helicopters firing TOWs destroyed North Vietnamese tanks near An Loc. This was heralded as the first time a U.S. unit neutralized enemy armor using American-designed and built guided missiles (in this case against an American-made M-41[11]). On 9 May, elements of the North Vietnamese Army's 203rd Armored Regiment assaulted Ben Het Camp held by Army of the Republic of Vietnam Rangers . The Rangers destroyed the first three PT-76 amphibious light tanks of the 203rd, thereby breaking up the attack.[12][13] During the battle for the city of Kontum, the TOW missile had proven to be a significant weapon in disrupting enemy tank attacks within the region. By the end of May, BGM-71 TOW missiles had accumulated 24 confirmed kills of both PT-76 light and T-54 main battle tanks.
>>30577232
they lose one Mi-28 in an accident months ago
and one Mi-35M by IS AA fire in 9 of junely
>>30577076
>a troop compartment that is useless 99 percent of the time
Except for all those times when Mi-24 pilots specifically requested another crew member on a mission to sit in this compartment and shoot at towelheads effectively diminishing their ability to fire back. Soviets even wanted to equip it with a back-facing gun turret, but it was cut because a fat general stuck there during trials and got super mad.
>>30577262
>after afghanistan the troop compartment in the Mi-24 is used to carry scout and Spetsnaz
>during georgia 2008, many Russian life were save by Mi-24
>just look at this pic and work your brain
Yes and in afganistan one guy strapped a wounded buddy to an apache wing.
But the thing is america actually has a good medevac system in place of real causually carrying helicopters with proper medical supplies on board and a well trained lifesaver.
We don't need to just shove a downed pilot in the back of a hind and hope he lives until we get back to base.
A troop compartment on an attack helicopter is just shit weight that reduces range and speed and is usless otherwise.
Also Most models of hinds are too underpowered to carry both troops and a full load on the wings at the same time.
>>30577287
ah i think i confused myself over the super cobra that got shot down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tf3RwwJ00I
>>30576281
>Doesn't the 52 have a limited range of motion on the gun pod? Something weird like 5 degrees in any direction.
Yeah but some hinds have a fixed forward large guns and that seems to work fine.
>>30576946
>what is the American equivalent to a flying rocket launcher?
You see Vladimir, the US has had ACTUAL PGM air to ground missiles for quite some time. Even blackhawks make better gunships than the old Hinds
>>30576135
Best helicopters on earth, that's all.
>>30577463
which one?
>>30576718
Weird ... but sweet video, wish there was CC
>>30576807
looks like a pretty calm and relaxing lift-off to me.
except ... rocket engine almost looks tethered to the pilot himself, not the seat ... which doesn't seem overly wise.
>>30577262
rofl ... jesus christ, that has got to be the most emasculated pair of commandoes i have ever seen.
"alright boys, here's what you're gonna do -- ride shotty over the wheels, just tuck your face into the bolsters and watch your legs on the landing. it's just like first-class, once you get used to it."
>>30577341
not the other guy -- you make some good points, but eh, it seems pretty subjective/arguable. Yes, the medivac would have better equipment/training, but it would possibly take much longer to get there versus if you already had an attack chopper with troop compartment on the spot. obviously troop compartment is dead weight for the attack chopper role, but there is something to be said about versatility. comanche was the uber-specialization chopper, and it never made it out of the video games.
not saying you're wrong, i'd rather have specialty choppers myself, honestly.
>>30577727
this
Mi-28 have a small compartment
mostly use for maintenance
but you can fit one for two man in there
>>30577281
So a previous generation missile mounted on an utility helicopter. Well done, but I requested a contemporary equivalent of Mi-24 armed with Shturm, not of Mi-4 armed with Falanga.
>>30577419
Hinds are odd because they can do Boom & Zoom like a CAS jet, while Kamov helis have to do the apache style nape-of-earth flying and pop-up-attack stuff.
>>30576281
That's more for precision training. The Ka-52 is more than capable of turning around the spot or while moving to face targets like a turret would with the added benefit the cannon is much, much more accurate since the gun is mounted snug to the airframe itself and not just some flimsy turret as well as the recoil is better managed.
>>30576412
>the 2A42 recoil could took down the helicopter
Not really. Its no Gsh-30.
>>30577164
That raid on Bin Laden if was truly a raid would be much better served with low-noise version of Hinds. If shit went to town you have heavy weapons in the air and armored pickups for extraction.
>>30577262
>after afghanistan the troop compartment in the Mi-24 is used to carry scout and Spetsnaz
This. Remember the coalition's schtick in the early days of the Afghan insurgency? Insert a team or two of SF who would capture a position and bait the talibunnies into massing up to repel the attack- and when they do those dudes call up arty and airpower to blast them to kingdom come. With Hinds you have heavy weapons in the air at all times as well as armored extraction just like I've said.
>>30577341
>But the thing is america actually has a good medevac system in place of real causually carrying helicopters with proper medical supplies on board and a well trained lifesaver.
That is more than ten minutes away. I'd rather have the medivac hovering above me and could touch down while under fire to haul the wounded out. Every precious moment spent stabilizing and securing the wounded is a moment not spent shooting back and risking getting killed.
>>30579148
>That raid on Bin Laden if was truly a raid would be much better served with low-noise version of Hinds. If shit went to town you have heavy weapons in the air and armored pickups for extraction.
If that was the case 160th would have brought DAP Blackhawks but they didn't because we're not trying to start a war with pakistan. You don't need all that to fight 4 house guards.
>>30579301
>You don't need all that to fight 4 house guards.
That compound was pretty close to the main army academy of Pakistan afaik. Nobody there knows there will be a couple helos striking a compound and that it belongs to their supposed ally. If they detected or were alerted to the presence of black choppers they would've prosecuted the intruders like they do others and shoot them. And if there is exchange of fire I'd rather be on the side with a flying IFV shitting out rockets and atgms and 30 mm cannonfire.
>>30578588
>while Kamov helis have to do the apache style nape-of-earth flying and pop-up-attack stuff.
Not really. They can do both but they do this awesome thing instead where like a tank they move towards one direction at decent speeds and fire at another using all their weapons. So yes, rockets and atgms can be employed while doing this maneuver.
>>30577004
The problem with Shtoras is the system has no way of knowing when and where to point the turret and initiate countermeasures apart from laser detection and manual activation by the crew. This is being remedied by the addition of AESA panels in their new T-14 and T-15 as part of the Afghanit APS that basically detects projectiles themselves instead of just the targeting laser.
The same situation applied to the Stinger vs. Hinds w/ flares. The flares worked great enough, but the problem was knowing when to activate them- the crew only had to guess really. Now with optical sensors all around as part of the President-S system the flares can be activated whenever a MANPAD was incoming, as well as maneuver commands given to optimize chances of ducking the missile.
>>30579652
They wouldn't be able to silence down a hind the same way they could with a Blackhawk.
Hinds are loud as shit, and pretty damn big.
They are also less agile than blackhawks, which is what you need for a quick touchdown and exfil.
If you cover is blown, two of any helicopter, no matter how well armed, is not going to help when you are 200km inside enemy territory.
>>30577836
I-TOW is pretty comparable with Shturm, it's slower, has less range, but a more effective warhead.
A Cobra carrying I-TOW would be a decent match for the early Mi-24 marks in the gunship role.
>>30577474
read boy
>>30579919
>They wouldn't be able to silence down a hind the same way they could with a Blackhawk.
How can you tell? Are you an engineer with expertise is quietening heavy machinery?
>Hinds are loud as shit, and pretty damn big.
All helos are loud as shit, and both are huge helos because of the cargo space.
>They are also less agile than blackhawks, which is what you need for a quick touchdown and exfil.
I'd rather have something that has 30 mm cannons and rockets to suppress enemy firing positions than a quick touchdown. Doubly so when that same helo is armored against small arms.
>If you cover is blown, two of any helicopter, no matter how well armed, is not going to help when you are 200km inside enemy territory.
You'd be surprised. Not everyone has IADS, or even just the sensor nets to cover the relevant parts of their territory. If you flew in undetected chances are you can lose them by using the same route. They can scramble jets but unless those are Mig-31s optimized for sniffing low signature cruise missiles flying really close to the ground you would more or less get away.
>>30579919
>They are also less agile than blackhawks
This is outright bullshit. Clumsy Hind is a meme that needs to die a slow and painful death. In real life it is fast and agile enough to preform anti-missile manoeuvres.
>>30576135
Love the look of the shark, the dual rotors are sexy AF and give it really good handling. It can turn and twist however the fuck it wants.
>>30577262
goddamn the apache is one sexy motherfucker! i remember i built a scale model when i was a kid, after all this years still looks so awesome and advanced. i wonder what is the replacement for it or are helis obsolete now?
>>30576135
Combat helicopters are all shit except for shooting peasants that can't shoot back or plinking tanks from behind a hill
>>30580964
t.mad goatfucker?
>>30580909
Poor IS-2
>>30580944
That's not an Apache bruh.
>>30579148
>If shit went to town you have heavy weapons
Couple of hinds wouldn't do shit if pakmil got that heated up to begin with
>>30581047
>Couple of hinds wouldn't do shit if pakmil got that heated up to begin with
You only need to fight the rapid response units- which in most cases are a bunch of guards armed with small arms deployed via armored cars with maybe a HMG mounted- a Hind would be overwhelming in the firepower department against such opponents.
>>30581012
WAT
>>30580964
They're great for removing muslims
>>30576135
Mi-28 is a Hind with ridiculous amount of armor. Ka-52 is a very decent machine with some extremely innovative technical decisions (like crew saving systems and build-in protection system) and extremely high price (for Russia, of course).
>>30580909
less visible recoil
>>30577262
This thing needs a little more crown molding for my taste.
>>30577614
Go big or go home
>>30576807
Guess it's better than dying in a crash
>>30577164
Same reason why Russians only been using MI24P's as CAS support with 80mm rockets instead of being troop transports, just in the same way an Apache has different loadouts for mission types. Instead of weapon payload, they just get a different helicopter or variant usually already assigned within the division.
