If the G11 was adopted could it have been a success or a failure?
Yes.
>>30562063
Yes.
Yes!
No
>>30562063
Sure
>>30562063
More important: If yes, would they make civilian versions of it, and also start experimenting with bigger calibers?
If yes, would the few who entered service be destroyed, put in a warehouse somewhere, sold to poorer nations or converted to civilian use?
>>30562063
Not without some form of active cooling. Also, I imagine clearing any kind of weapon malfunction begins with "Completely disassemble the rifle..."
>>30562063
Technically and in the field?
Yes.
Politically and financially?
No.
Germany had to re-arm the entirety of the former East German army and the G11 was too expensive to be the service rifle. Given the economic cost West Germany encountered in restructuring and repairing the infrastructural mess the communists left behind, spending an inordinate amount of money on weapon orders for what was (in logistics terms) two armies was out of the question. Thus, the Kraut Space Magic was sealed away.
>>30562306
>50 cal G11
yes please
>>30562063
Possibly
>>30562323
*tips fedora*
Communism has never been tried. The government is your friend.
pure sex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoTU-X0qbnQ
no. too slow to load and reload. if you kept your mags loaded your ammo is susceptible to water/moisture/oil/contaminant damage
>>30562063
It would have been quickly improved, cheapened, given attachments, etc., but it would have probably overall paled in comparison to many other firearms on the Civillian market.
It would probably get quite a few countries to adopt it, but then quickly either find a method of converting them to something else with a case that's cheaper and more readily available, and then eventually convert back to the original caliber as things got more common.
But sadly, I think it would be quickly replaced as more reliable and cheaper things got developed and only ever remain in service as a rear echelon weapon for countries that even keep it at all.
It would be cool as fuck to have one though.
>>30562551
Didn't show off the burst fire! >:(
>>30562585
In short, it would be a short term success and while it would never be popular it would still be remembered as the first general issue caseless assault rifle.
Kind of like the STG-44.
Not really good, just the first one people remember and it got heavily modified and upgraded into something worth a damn eventually.
"we had the choice between reuniting Germany or chose a new assault rifle, we chose the cheaper option"
it is essential /memecore/ when it comes to guns. It looks cool and is a special snowflake but other than that it's unpractical and extremely convoluted while not providing a large enough improvement vs existing designs to be viable
Can this gun be fired in space?
How could this have fared?
>>30562766
They contain their own oxidizer.
Yes, they can be fired in space.
>>30562551
How the fuck do you fire a gun at -45?
>>30562063
No
>>30562063
The answer is uncertain...
>>30562770
The problem with this was that the flechette was garbage at wounding
>>30562766
Any gun can though the lack of atmospheric pressure might be a problem to fire a second shot.
>>30562693
Stop the memes.
One phrase: gas jet cutting.
Caseless is a great way to make a gun worse.
CT-polymer is the true path.
>>30562997
So does mean instead of wounding it killed or that it wasnt very deadly
>>30563694
They don't fragment and rip up your innards like bullets do, they just poke into you and sit there. It's like being shot with a nailgun, albeit the nail is flying at thousands of feet per second, but it's still not that damaging compared to a tiny bullet that will break into pieces, rip holes in your intestine, and leave you bleeding out of multiple internal wounds. Also they could get blown off course extremely easily by wind so that doesn't help.
>>30562063
[KRAUT SPACE MAGIC INTENSIFIES]
>>30562382
How does it feel to be retarded?
Why didn't the G41 get more attention than the kraut shit brick?
>>30562313
Congratulations, you're the first poster to have actually researched the firearm in question and provided a thoughtful comment. In other news, brass makes a good heat sink.
>>30562592
Listen closely
>>30562313
All one needs is different kind of propellant.
Or you could design a propellant that is super resistant to heat, but the primer is activated by electrical charge rather than hammer. A caseless pulse rifle is great sci fi shit.
>>30562766
Any modern firearm that I can think of could be fired in space. But I don't know what effect the vacuum would have, especially on gas-operated self-loading rifles. Plus, they would overheat really quick.
No air means no air cooling. That heat can only go one of to places: the rest of the rifle and/or your hands.
>>30562693
>Reloads from the muzzle like a revolutionary war musket
Who in their right minds thought this was a good idea?
>>30567064
are you fucking retarded? the magazine is slide in above the muzzle, not into it
>>30567084
Same fucking thing. This idiot box is impossible to reload while prone.
>>30567021
Or, you know, radiate away.
>>30567124
"german engineering precision" is often just a synonym for no user input.
>>30567139
>implying
Radiation is done through electromagnetic waves. Do you seriously think that removing a weapons primary method of heat dissipation will have no effect?
Normally, air cooled guns work like this: heat causes the molecules to move about more. Much of the energy is transferred to the air molecules surrounding the barrel and action. This air moves away naturally, providing fresh, cool air molecules that the energy can be transferred to (if the air molecules were the same temperature as the gun, there would be no net loss of heat for the gun since the air would transfer it back).
In space, gas particles are so rare that it's a vacuum. That heat can no longer be transferred. Now radiation will occur for most hot objects, but it loses heat at a much slower rate. The gun can't simply decide "oh, I need to find another way to lose this heat. I'll just radiate more!"
The rate of radiation will not change. Its independent of the convection/conduction.
>>30567139
Radiation requires transfer. Heat doesn't radiate away to an appreciable means in a vacuum.
>>30567298
>>30567292
Yes, convection is better. But unless you're using a GPMG, cooling is no more a problem than lack of oxygen.
>>30562808
>pic related
>>30567311
You realize that more heat would be lost from the expended casings than the radiation, right? Black body radiation is not a good method of cooling. Any sustained combat would cause problems without a dedicated heat sink.
>>30562063
why do people suck this gun off so much?
It looks ugly as fuck and probably heavy af too
>>30567693
>8 lbs
>heavy as fuck
>>30567693
1800 RPM
>>30567693
caseless ammo is a possible next step in firearm design and the G11 was almost put into service
It has the ergonomics of a cinder block, costs way too much both to manufacture and to shoot, is slow to load and offers no real advantages over a more conventional rifle. Literally "please kill me, end my miserable existence": the gun
>>30562326
That doesn't sound rational in any sense. But I guess it's not about being rational at that point. Nonetheless, my dick is diamonds now. Thanks anon.
>>30568052
The F2000 is shaped like a boat yet happens to be extremely comfortable to hold. The G11 doesn't look that bad, and if it was put into service, there would be an inevitable 'A2' model with improved ergos and everything else.
>>30562551
I love the way Japanese masturbate to white inventions. It's like, omg, these white people are fucking gods. Thank kami-sama they rescued us from our idiocy.
>>30564266
>How does it feel to be retarded?
you have no idea how good this feels, anon.
Do you think caseless ammo might have been more of a success if they tried using a more conventional platform to fire it (e.g. redesigning a G3 to fire caseless) instead of trying to make a space gun? Or did the caseless ammunition itself necessitate some really complicated means of loading and firing?
>>30568181
All existing guns revolve around loading a hunk of brass, firing, then ejecting it.
Designing a weapon to use caseless ammo was a reasonable step. Letting some art major pick the design was their problem.
>>30565163
The reason they used such a small round is because it generates less heat. You are acting like they didn't think this through. Plus Germany is not known for its hot weather.
>>30562551
They got the same guy who does the gundam narration?
"It's okay" -jssdf
>>30567124
its even better for reloading in prone position then a bottom magazin fed gun if you just think about it for a second
>>30568297
>>30568458
When I am on the two way shooting range I can't even use my hands.
Shut up weeb kid.
>>30562063
>shitty round
>heavy gun
>no options for sights/optics
>ammunition that has tons of problems with storage temp and humidity
>absurdly long magazines make it harder to carry reloads
>ridiculous feeding system
>complicated re-loading
>very slow mag change
>thin barrel that overheats quickly
>shit trigger
>non-adjustable stock
>cannot be repaired in the field
>difficult and complex maintenance procedure
The G11 is a piece of shit
>>30568498
kek you tard
>>30562382
You mean it's never been tried... by the "right" people.
>>30568458
I have thought about it for 30 mins. Breaking sight picture to reload your weapon is still stupid.
>>30563646
LSAT is pursuing both. Polymer is the *backup plan*.
>>30568508
Agreed, except for
> very slow mag change
And
> non-adjustable stock
At the time, the stocks were solid and non adjustable as well. And for the slow mag change, that can be trained
>>30568643
so you keep sight picture durring a reload of your rifle?
>>30562063
>>30562063
Failure. It would've been shitter than insas and l82 combined
>>30568508
>shitty round
50 gr going upwards of 3000 ft/s, projectile's the same length as M855 but smaller diameter: better SD and probably better FF = better BC = loses velocity slower, shoots flatter.
>heavy gun
It was fucking 8 pounds unloaded. Go lift.
>the rest
Yeah pretty much.
>>30562313
or the possibility to swap the chamber on the field to avoid cook off and reduce overheating issues
>>30566977
Do you know how propellant works, heat makes it expand rapidly in a chemical reaction caused by a small amount of heat and pressure from the primer
Otherwise wouldn't they have fuckin came up with different propellant to make every assault rifle an LMG?
"Couldn't they just science the physics part away?"
great shitpost
>>30568806
>It was fucking 8 pounds unloaded. Go lift.
I can hold 35lbs at arms length for 120 seconds. I get an erection when I do this.
Come at me bro
>>30562063
Yes
>>30562063
my understanding is that it was revolutionary in it's features, not it's overall effectiveness
remember this was made in the 60's, so it was really divergent in terms of design
>bulpup
>caseless ammo weighting half of what 5.56 does, lack of fragmentation apon impact would have been an easy fix
>break away from iron sights
>floating barrel
>shift to smaller calibers
>It achieved a 100% higher Ph than the G3
>cocking without racking
>very clever manual ejection of dud shells, not sure how effective it was
dev was delayed by multiple changes in caliber, and it only "failed" in that it didn't double practical accuracy; which would be nie impossible
the feed mechanism was very complicated, yet highly effective
It would not be that long of a shot to argue that it could have been simplified, yet I don't think the Germans were afraid of that because field repairs are for guns that break; and highly trained troops could be trusted to keep their weapons in order
if it had beneifted from the voec ellectrical ignition system it would have been GOAT
always wondered why the magasine wasn't integral, why you load the mag with the bullets, the second step seems redundant to me, though erhaps it was just due to the storage needs of the round
>>30562693
>It looks cool and is a special snowflake but other than that it's unpractical and extremely convoluted while not providing a large enough improvement vs existing designs to be viable
What do you expect? It's German.
>>30562693
Where were soldiers supposed to keep those xboxhueg magazines while in combat?
>>30569000
I'm just asking how you consider it heavy when it was 8 pounds unloaded and less than 8.6 loaded. Given how light we've gotten AR-15s these days, I'd love to see what would happen if the US civvie firearms industry turned its attention on a civilian semi-auto G11 in some alternate universe.
Can you imagine a G11 buried in M-LOK? Sheesh.
>>30569814
>unpractical
what makes you say that, also unpractical isn't a word; you mean impractical
>extremely convoluted
I think a case has to be made for why the complication is actually an issue, there is the cost; but aside from that it seems to be more a millitary design doctrine issue
>not providing a large enough improvement
that's been holding us back for decades, there ARE better weapons, just nobody an be bothered using a new gun that isn't integratable for costing reasons
>>30569828
looking at the design I see no reason the magazines couldn't be shorter at the cost of total rounds held
I also don't see why the magazine coudn't be made integral like a semi-auto shotgun, and the plastic mags in the video kept for ready to use rounds
also here is food for thought, the rounds arn't double-stack in the magazine which makes it simpler
but why not simply have two or more of them loaded at once?
I'm sure a box feed system would be achievable, you can store the rounds in a cube where brass rounds have to be belted or stored in unwieldy drum mags
>>30562063
In German it sounds like gay-elve
An insider once told me the last nail in the coffin was higher ups not wanting their troops shooting gay elves
Screenshot this before they realize we found out
>>30569859
>Tfw you will never witness nutnfancy cerakote his G11
>>30569828
In their pouch
Germans are marsupials
Caseless ammunition when
>>30562693
That is so fucking scifi and badass.
>>30567693
>why do people suck this gun off so much?
2000 rpm burst fire, 600 rpm sustained fire and caseless ammo.
End of cold war defense cuts in Germany killed it. Sure it had some teething issues, but it would have been as major change infantry firepower to as change from bolt actions to assault rifles was.
>It looks ugly as fuck and probably heavy af too
It was light as fuck. Form follows function and beauty is in eye of beholder.
>>30568668
did you see how those things change mags? the way you have to line them up, and the stupid dial you have to turn. it could never be as fast as "push a button, slap new on in"
>>30568806
ballistic coefficient and standard deviation have to do with accuracy, not terminal ballistics. BC barely effects loss of velocity and saying it "shoots flatter" is a stretch. It's a lighter, weaker round than the 5.56 nato, which is already light and weak. You know the terms but don't understand how they apply to actual ballistics and terminal effect on target. Go read more, learn more, and grow up a little.
>8 pounds unloaded. Go lift.
Spoken like a true civilian that's never carried his rifle further than from his car to the gun range
HK have an entire underground storage facility full of "prototypes" they hashed together with unlimited budgets from the German governments over the years.
>>30574883
*sectional density
>>30563646
>CT
CT?
>>30568153
Well, without the West, they'd be choking on
The Dragon's cock right now.
>>30562612
Whats wrong with the STG44?
>>30575344
I think he just mean it was overshadowed by it's offspring
it was a technological bridge to better designs
It doesn't matter if it worked or not. Caseless was already going to be be a thing.
>>30575344
It's a flawed, first generation product. Parts life is below average and the trigger pack is a convoluted mess. It's also very heavy for what it is. 8mm Kurz is also a very underdeveloped, underperforming round in it's issued form. All of this is very excusable and given enough time to properly mature the STG would have grown into a fine rifle. As it stands, it's essentially a beta rushed to market.
>>30575063
Cased telescopic
>>30567383
Underrated post
>>30576886
Isn't the basic inner workings of the STG still relevant, and went into the G3 and some other common "contract" german rifles/SMGs?
>>30568508
Read my mind, and then some.
>>30577314
See >>30576537
I meant that while it would have been an okay gun by the time it got into production, it would have been quickly fixed into a much better second generation firearm and it would be overshadowed by its offspring but nonetheless remembered fondly as being the first.
>>30567124
Unless you have little T-Rex arms I don't see how oh could possibly think that.
>>30567383
What in the fuck...
Anyone knowledgable about the Canadian and US caseless and CT rifle efforts? LSAT and this new Canadian carbine in particular.
http://www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/en/dynamic-article.page?doc=the-evolution-of-the-smart-gun/i5xyz550
>>30577784
There have been almost no updates recently. I've looked into it but there's no much info. BTW the pic there is a mockup made from aluminum extrusion lol, it's an ergonomic test pretty much
>>30568681
Yes
>>30562063
Damnit they fixed the G11 wiki
>>30578456
It's a very ugly mock up if u do day so myself.
The LSAT program has moved along very well but there doesn't seem to be that much funding for a carbine version. I don't think the army has really thought about a path to replace the M4 yet, and I don't really blame them. But it would be kind of silly to just adopt the LMG and not standardize the 5.56 CT round. I'm not really sure what direction the army wants to take the program desu.
