I was watching a thing about WW2 the other day and how when pushing in to Germany the Americans couldn't make much progress at all against German positions in a Forrest where tanks and air and artillery strikes were not an option. And that lasted until the battle of the Bulge counter offensive.
I also think I read something a while back about how the Iraqi military trained by the US was so ineffective once America left because the Americans sim ply trained them to bunker down and wait for air strikes/artillery, so when the amrerican firepower left, so did their entire training.
I'm going to guess that Americans are weak against Ewoks too.
>>30534515
>Americans sim ply trained them to bunker down and wait for air strikes/artillery
This is false, but they came to rely on it because the reality.
Equality based initiatives.
>>30534515
During WW2 they lacked squad level machinegunner, BARs "kinda" filled that role, but American-used BARs were garbage when used as LMG in comparison to their export models(which had better bipod, quick-replaceable barrel etc.).
>>30534593
Kek
>>30534515
>Americans couldn't make much progress at all
Well no shit they couldn't at the Battle of the Bulge. That was why it was so successful, the allies had it minimally manned and equipped. The area was full of understrength units awaiting replenishment while the bulk of allied strength was directed north and south to stabilize the frontline.
>>30534515
Letting women serve.
>>30534606
Really? I felt like it fit into the more mobile tactics the Americans used.
The BAR is a very uniquely American thing.
>>30534515
Officers aren't exposed to enough criticism. Careerism.
>>30534651
>The BAR is a very uniquely American thing.
Not really.
It was typical 1920s-30s military thinking that valued accuracy over firepower.
>>30534515
Pretty sure this is a b8 thread, but I'll answer sincerely anyway.
>I also think I read something a while back about how the Iraqi military trained by the US was so ineffective once America left because the Americans sim ply trained them to bunker down and wait for air strikes/artillery, so when the amrerican firepower left, so did their entire training.
The ineffectiveness of local nation troops comes down to the fact that you are asking American soldiers to train people who are in many cases literally illiterate in their own language and who can not do basic math. As much as you can huehuehue about stupid Americans who join the military, they can at least read and do math to a functional degree.
This really handicaps American trainers who have to act as both military trainer and school teacher to a bunch of grown men.
Many of these local nationals probably also don't give a fuck. They are just there for the easy paycheck, and unlike the shitheads in the US who join the military, there isn't an entrenched system of career NCOs to kick them in the ass.
Add to this that culture in the Islamic world has a fascination with "being tough". By which I mean that, culturally some things like "looking down your sights" or "wearing body armor" are seen as unmanly. Notice the amount of Islamic propaganda of dudes who are way to skinny to pull it off attempting to fire GPMGs from the hip as if it's effective.
>>30534662
Scottish Officers are based as fuck, from their history of the upper class being educated amongst the rabble.
>>30534651
Not really, I believe it was more of a case where they developed the doctrine to suit the equipment instead of the other way around.
>>30534694
cont
Add to *that* the leadership culture in the Islamic world which is all kinds of fucked. Because of culturally entrenched fears that leaders have of being usurped they insist on micromanagement, so a unit in the field may be paralyzed while waiting for orders. On top of that, in places like supply warehouses, the sign of "good leadership" is a full and organized warehouse- which means that the people in charge do everything in their power to *not* distribute equipment. Now, in western culture we have those problems too to some degree, but it is 10000x worse in the Islamic world.
Now also realize that in joint LN-US operations, if combat happens, the LNs know that the US forces will always fight back as hard as possible. So they get lazy and make the US take the lead, and even though US forces prod them forward, at the end of the day every low level US leader is more concerned about killing the enemy and stopping the threat to their men than to getting the LNs experienced.
So when the US leaves what you're left with is a clusterfuck of bad leadership, paralyzed cultural deference to higher leadership, low troop motivation, inexperience putting any training to use, illiteracy that gimps any kind of field level tactical planning, and shitty supply chains.
>>30534515
ya'll know what to do
>>30534694
>>30534718
cont cont
For the question of holes in American doctrine, I think the biggest flaw is the increasing amount of micromanagement by commanders.
As communication technology gets better and better, high level commands are constantly requiring more reports and more explainations of choices made at the lower level. High level commands are getting in the ass of low level commanders, and are dictating local SOPs without really having experience in individual areas.
This is a problem most apparant at company level IMO, where the company commander, who is normally pretty close to the ground conditions and troops should be given reasonably unfettered voice in controlling SOPs and methods of conducting missions, so long as whatever he is doing is proving to be effective in the outcome.
>>30534730
Have a reasonable discussion and tell you to fuck off?
>>30534694
>>30534718
That sounds like something the US should have accounted for and try to correct.
I'd hate to say it but from the attitudes of both civilians and soldiers, America really only half-assed the war.
From not really trying to win hearts and minds on the individual soldier level, to knowing we they destabilized a region for no god damn reason outside of political interests (lol, weapons of mass destruction).
Its like the united states military are a group of mercenaries who aren't getting paid enough.
>>30534795
It's a very tall order to ask soldiers to train locals up from literally illiterate to be a full fighting force.
The trainers care about their jobs, but you are asking them to do a decade's worth of basic education *AND* to train local troops to be effective soldiers.
And the timeline to do it is always compacted because there has always been a threat where LN soldiers are needed, and because LN soldiers are needed to stablize the local government.
>From not really trying to win hearts and minds on the individual soldier level
Individual soldiers, commands, and taskforces have been trying their asses off.
>to knowing we they destabilized a region for no god damn reason outside of political interests (lol, weapons of mass destruction).
Not a choice made by anybody who was tasked with training locals. I'm giving you the description of what happened and why from the perspective of the soldiers carrying out the policy, not the political policy makers. I am keeping it confined to the practicalities of the ground level, not the /pol/ arguments of the merits of invasions and/or pulling out of country made by political administrations.
>>30534766
>I think the biggest flaw is the increasing amount of micromanagement by commanders
This coupled with how ever the hell officer/staff NCO promotions work leads to a lot of instances where it seems their doing stuff to check a box on their resume. Wanna make E-8? Gotta get that infantry company post. Want your own company someday? Better go out on patrols just long enough to get enough stories for your buddies in HQ to slam together a medal with combat V story that never happened.
>>30534593
/Thread
>>30534900
Officers especially do have problems because they need to have accomplishments in order to progress.
This sounds good, but in practice it can really fuck stuff up.
For example, I was with a very good unit with an outgoing CO who was great. He made sure to get everything really in order to allow the new CO to come in and have a smooth ride.
During the transition the new CO actually tries to make the unit look as fucked up as possible. He even (and I got this right from the armorer) tried to get the armorer to toss some signed quarterly paperwork to make it seem like the outgoing CO had forgotten to do it.
This was all in an attempt of the new CO to be able to write a bunch of bullet points about how he fixed up such a fucked up unit. It was a fucked situation and really the new CO had no incentive to not do this because writing "Took command of a new unit, everything was fine" on his OER doesn't win him a promotion.
>>30534651
Unit level tactics were the same everywhere, with varying degrees of emphasis based on equipment.
>>30534940
I remember when we had our first award ceremony after Afghan, all the platoon commanders got at least a NAVCOM with V for such things as "spotting targets" and "Providing suppression with his M4" while most of the Purple Hearts went to E1 to E5s.
I mean, I get why the CO did it, he was a cool guy in the end and didn't want to fuck over his LTs in what might be their only shot at a combat deployment but it left a real sour taste in my mouth.
>>30535026
Blanket awards are the same all over. Everybody in my unit under a certain rank got an AAM, everybody over it who went in the field got a Bronze Star for going on the same missions.
>>30534515
We have a military doctrine?
When the hell was I taught that in basic?
>>30535026
And that's the real problem here, to even be "a cool guy" (read, a decent, unfucked commander), you have to feed into this bullshit situation they've created just so you're not fucking over legitimately decent junior leadership
>>30534515
>I'm going to guess that Americans are weak against Ewoks too.
Nah, the US would just set up a parameter and massacre them. You do realize that the Star Wars have as much tactical knowledge in it as a 12 year old autist.
>>30534515
staying power.
Time is on the side of the insurgents, since the US will pull out eventually from every conflict.
Also, the US won't secure all villages, city blocks, and rural areas, so people are free to recruit, set up ambushes, set up IEDs, and terrorize collaborators.
>>30534515
>Iraqi military trained by the US was so ineffective
Nah, that's because they just suck. They got their asses kicked the same way Indians got their asses handed to them by 3-5 militants in a city.
>>30534795
>From not really trying to win hearts and minds on the individual soldier level,
Friendly reminder that "hearts and minds" was a strategy that was only adopted because the government took advice from CAIR on how to defeat muslims. It's not a way to win a war, every boot on the ground knew it wasn't effective, and every commander that tried to disregard it was punished severely. "Hearts and minds" is a shit strategy(if you can even call it such) that doesn't work.
Too much reliance on high-tech stuff increases the logistical burden. Between this and fighting wars overseas, which consumes more manpower on transportation, the tip of the spear shrinks. Also bad intelligence.
>>30535100
Sadly it seems like a harder problem to fix than the broken as hell cutting score system
>>30535333
>bad intelligence.
Why is intelligence so bad, anyways?
>>30536845
From what I saw the Hadji's weren't stupid and would knew what we could hear, so we got a lot of misinformation just to screw with us passed down.
US army progressed pretty much as fast as their supplies could catch up.
>>30534624
This is honestly really sad to watch.
Why do we keep letting them think they're cut out for the military?
Like I don't feel like shit every day that I will never be a Navy SEAL, because I know I'm not cut out for it. But if everyone around instead said "Oh come on now, a fat, pudgy, out of shape 20 year old like you can definitely be in the special forces! It's 2016 after all! It's your determination that counts!" I would feel like a complete failure after I tried and failed miserably.
>>30534683
>accuracy over firepower
What's the difference?
>>30537074
Suppressing fire. You're trying to keep a decent sized area afraid to move, not 'one shot one kill' motherfuckers at 300m. Reloading every 20-30 rounds and (to a point) having a tight group isn't conductive to this.
>>30534651
it was essentially a less effective bren gun, and was used in a similar fashion
>>30534766
I've personally experienced this. I work at the Company level, and once upon a time during a 30-day stretch training in the field, something broke. No problem, I got some guys together and we proceeded to fix it.
Unfortunately all of our shit is now connected to a vast GPS network that monitors literally every single thing we have and reports it on up to Battalion and whoever wants to look at it up on higher. I know for a fact our Battalion commander has a big screen set up to just watch the stuff on a big map like the Starship Enterprise. So the little dot that indicated our equipment went red.
In the middle of trying to fix it, I shit you not: He called us 15 minutes after we started. THE, BATTALION, COMMANDER. He wanted to know exactly what was going on, exactly how it broke, exactly what we were doing to fix it, exactly how long it was going to take, and why it wasn't already fixed 5 minutes ago. This turned what would have otherwise been just a 30 minute operation into over an hour because it was as if Battalion were more interested in us documenting and reporting the problem than actually fixing it.
I'm under the impression this is the future of the Army so I'm getting out now.
>>30537170
Oh and here's the cherry on top of the shit sundae:
What often happened after repair operations like these is that I would inform the head honchos in Battalion FIRST... THEN I'd turn around and inform my COMMANDER to keep them in the loop. Because that's how far Battalion was up our asses.
>>30534795
>hearts and minds
Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum.
>>30537228
Run, my man, run before peace time consumes us all.
>>30537041
>"But you're not a woman, and if we cheered you on it wouldn't be equality. And equality is all that matters!"
All this really is is "m-muh equality". Funny how they want equal treatment, but suddenly when it gets handed to them and it becomes too hard, they demand that we pander to their every whim, and if we don't we're bigots.
