I fairly recently learned that most soldiers don't carry sidearms, because why would you carry a far less powerful and accurate weapon system, when you can just carry more ammo.
This makes sense, but do some soldiers carry both? If so, can I get some examples? Thanks in advance.
>>30533747
only officers and senior enlisted have side arms
that and usasoc
If you have to resort to your pistol, you're already dead
pistols are only for fags that are too lazy to bring their rifle when taking a shit
>>30533747
Military Police
What purpose does a sidearm really serve in the military?
>Just as a backup?
>mercy killing/warcrimes?
>tactical suicide?
Officers and senior NCOs are allowed to carry sidearms because they have the authority to execute enlisted soldiers that fail to obey lawful commands on the spot, so they can go armed at all times, but enlisted men are only armed when being put into battle.
that's why the officer stands in the back, to prevent troops from retreating
>>30533788
Kek. I was a pilot and when deployed we carried m9s when on the fob and our m4s when out on mission.
>>30533801
Ivan plz
>>30533747
MPs, security soldiers and operators.
>>30533801
Wut
>>30533747
Senior NCOs, officers, MPs, random assortments of people who might not have practical use of a rifle. Occasionally people like machine gunner carding troops may be issued one for personal defense.
Here's a dirty little secret though: The vast majority of people issued a pistol don't do more than the required bare minmimum of training on it. People on deployment don't want pistols because they think it's an effective weapon, but because having a pistol allows them to not have to carry a rifle around everywhere on post with them. The fact that officers spend more time running around post briefings than in the field is a big reason they always get them.
>>30533801
T. Commissar of the imperial guard
>>30533817
Why would operators not just carry more ammo like soldiers? Forgive my ignorance, but don't they typically operate in teams? And the whole reason most infantry don't carry sidearms is because they have a team of people covering them while they reload, and it makes more sense to just carry more ammo.
>>30533795
Useful for self defense.
If you're training and in close quarters with shadey local nationals, a pistol is good to have.
If you're primarily a crew served weapon operator, it's good to have for defense.
If you're in a bombsuit to clear out a probably, but maybe not dead enemy body, it's good to have.
They have their uses, but it is admittedly very niche. On an open battlefield, the average infantryman won't really make use of one. An infantryman usually isn't going out with less than a platoon of friends, so even in the highly unlikely event his weapon is permanently jammed up on patrol, it isn't the biggest deal.
>>30533832
Defensive first line. For individual self defense sometimes a pistol makes more sense than a rifle.
Also things like PSD from a vehicle might be served with a faster reaction from a pistol.
And it's *nice* in case your rifle goes down, which is a bigger deal for operators than for normal troops due to operators sometimes having less backup, shorter range, and higher intensity contacts.
MP can into side arm at all times
>>30533747
Out of curiosity, what vests are those Marines or maybe even corpsman are wearing? I don't recognize it as their MTV or plate carrier.
>>30533869
That makes sense. They're MPs. I figure they would use their sidearm more often than their M4 on base, especially in the states. Kinda silly doing police work with a rifle our.
>>30533869
>>30533885
They're also massive faggots
>>30533763 this and this >>30533767
>>30533747
What kind of stance is that? Looks like an ancient stance you would see guys with revolvers do, usually cops. I'm talking like 19th century shooting here, perhaps even earlier if you consider the typical stance someone would shoot a muzzle loaded pistol with.
>>30533896
Looks like practicing the basics of shooting one-handed. That's just getting the feel for it, it will not look like that in combat or once they start adding tacticool training elements.
>>30533896
They're are shooting like their right arm is done for.
>>30533917
>Shooting with my left hand
My target better be closer than 10 feet
>>30533801
Historically, yes but not in the 20th century. I'm not sure summary execution was allowed under the last iteration of the articles of war circa WW2.
Due process & all that.
It is also to assist in keeping your soldiers from fragging your ass.it's not for use on the enemy so much as to keep your own people off you.
Also, MP's carry them, even in the field along with their SAWs, 240's, M4's, Mk 19's etc.
Not sure why we did that in the woods other than we had 'em.
Flight & vehicle crews to some degree.
>>30533933
Other than that, only real operators who need a secondary weapon & fob pukes who are required to have something but don't wanna carry a rifle around but have the juice to get one issued ie staff officers etc.
>>30533867
Worked dragging supplies all around to other contractors (builders, raven branch), we were issued both. But usually you carried your side arm with you around town, mostly personal defense and anti-hadji repellant.
>>30533917
>>30533925
Alternate hand drills.
For when your other mitt is damaged or occupied, e.g. dragging a casualty
>best be practicing more, then
>>30533825
>Basically this.
I always used the 'EOD so need one for closein safety', but basically it was for when fobbitting around to the showers or getting a coffee
>>30535301
Or for when you're too busy with your 'primary weapon'...
>tfw in HKIA-N
>>30533747
Is that the official US navy pistol stance?
>>30535335
L O N D O N
O
N
D
O
N
>>30533801
Not one step back comrades
>>30533747
Carried a SAW in Afghan, kept an M9 in a chest holster. Actually earned my CAR with the M9.
>>30535370
Is there any instance where a machinegunner has to use his sidearm ? I can't think of any.
>>30535433
Self defense at close range where a machinegun would be unwieldy.
Saw Israeli Military Police with Browning HP's and Galil's in the 1990's
>>30535442
Then it means your platoon or your squad has been annihilated and you're on your own. At this point, you're fucked anyway.
I was a Combat Engineer, I carried a Mossberg and an M9 when we were doing a lot of door-kicking in Iraq. Other than that trying to get the Army to issue sidearms is rather like trying to teach a pig to sing, they wouldn't even let us train with the things prior to deployment.
>>30535433
I found myself needing to fire overhead of my squadmates, and was NOT about to do that with my SAW.
>>30535520
Not true, we were engaged at close distance from a treeline. Whole squad lived, senpai.
>>30535520
>Dipprasad Pun, CGC is a Nepalese sergeant of the Royal Gurkha Rifles who was decorated with the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross for an act of bravery during the War in Afghanistan on the night of 17 September 2010. Pun, then an acting sergeant, single-handedly defeated 12 to 15 Taliban insurgents who were storming his control post near Babaji in Helmand province.
>Immediately prior to the engagement, Pun, who was with the 1st battalion Royal Gurkha Rifles, was on sentry duty at a checkpoint guarding his unit's compound. Taliban fighters, planting bombs near the compound gate under the cover of darkness, suddenly surrounded and attacked his post with AK-47s and RPGs. Acting Sergeant Pun, alone and believing he was about to die, decided to kill as many of the enemy as possible. During the engagement he reportedly spent all his ammunition (more than 400 rounds), used 17 hand grenades and a Claymore mine before battering the last fighter with the tripod of his machine gun. Two Taliban were still attacking his post when he set off the Claymore mine.
Don't stop believing.
>>30533801
Well spoken, Commissar. Praise the Emperor.
>tfw you will never brain a jihadi with an m9 and shitty fmj ammo at close range
>>30533747
holy shit.
Couple of things. Always carry a sidearm. If your main weapon malfunctions or get's knocked out (enemy fire, ect) What the fuck are you going to do?
What happens when you're carrying a long gun and have to knock on a few doors? Ever tried to carry your rifle around your house? It isn't easy.
>>30535595
Gurkhas are fucking scary.
>>30535620
why live?
>>30533747
MUHREEEEEN armorer fag here.
Most of what has been said is true. Only Officers and Senior Enlisted primarily carry pistols. Depending on where they are deployed and their job, they may be issued a rifle as well.
Also. there are certain jobs that, regardless of rank, do get a pistol as a primary. Clergy, Medical not on front lines, certain techs, and armorers. During my time in the Corps, I was issued an M9 as primary. Reason being I had to lug around all my gear, standard tools, specialty tools, and spare parts. It's a lot of gear. Having a rifle as primary would have made my job a lot harder to do and remain ready and able to engage at a moments notice.
The nice thing about it was all the butthurt and tears from Officers when they attempted to order me to ditch the pistol and get a rifle and were smacked down by command. Makes me hard just remembering it.
>>30535657
Yes it is. They specifically train you on how to do so. Clearing buildings isn't that hard with an M4.
>>30535595
That would be some very conspicuous gallantry indeed.
>>30535799
Training doesn't always equal real life anon.
Have you ever been to the third world? In many of these buildings lifting my rifle is near impossible.
>>30535595
>mfw this post
NEVER GIVE UP
>>30535812
>lifting my rifle is near impossible
Maybe if you weren't so weak.
>>30535812
>>30535657
Also, your post implies you can use your sidearm as a replacement for your rifle. I highly doubt that your hitting anything past 25 meters. At that point, you may as well just start yelling "BANG BANG" as loud as you can.
>>30535657
i believe OP was referring to how 90% of combat arms soldiers can be in for 3 years without once firing or carrying a pistol
really it's just NCOs, officers, MPs, or people who otherwise arent carrying an m4 or who are valuable enough to warrant the sidearm. anyone else is, on paper, will have his 50 buddies to either side to fill the gap while he fixes his primary.
>>30535820
Not him, but have you seen how much crap you can pile on a rifle these days? I wouldn't be surprised if it weighed as much as a 240.
>>30535837
>Also, your post implies you can use your sidearm as a replacement for your rifle.
That's... what? What the fuck are you talking about?
A sidearm is exactly that, a sidearm. A tool not for main use. Either as a backup(no, you won't be engaging past 25m) but you will be able to cover.
As for knocking, go in with carbine first. Situation requires tighter control, sidearm. Some of these indoor markets don't fit one than one person a lane.
>>30533763
Which is dumb and lazy of them. Instead if taking the pistol for themselves, they should give it to the 240 gunner and carry a fucking M-4 instead of making someone with a giant weapon carry another rifle on top of it.
t. Salty 240 gunner
>>30535433
MGs are kinda clunky to reload, and also near-impossible to use from a standing position if you get hit in an arm.
>>30535987
Wait, you seriously carried a rifle as well? Why? Literally every gunner I have ever seen in my life had a sidearm.
Even then I don't envy them at fucking all.
>>30533801
>>30535657
90%+ of soldiers are not issued a sidearm and can not simply request to carry one.
You are talking like a tacticool civilian who hasn't into military.
>>30535987
Our 240 gunners had no M9s. Fucking SNCOs and ociffers took them all.
>>30535987
> dumb and lazy
no shit, its Officers and Senior NCOs
>>30533747
Personnel manning pedestrian checkpoints pretty much need pistols, because during a pat down rifle is a hindrance and a liability. Also Iraqis and other middle easterners tend to be fucking terrified of pistols. Because executions tended to be done with pistols.
That's my father's take on it. He ran the main gate for a FOB in Mosul Iraq for 8 months in 2005. He fought tooth and nail to get pistols for his guys for the fear factor.
>>30535657
You've never served
>>30536105
>soldier
huehuehue
90%? really?
>>30533801
Commissar pls
>>30536143
>middle easterners tend to be fucking terrified of pistols
Depends on where. Afghani dirt farmers cared far less about my pistol than Iraqi city-dwellers who experienced the Saddam regime.
did the Army really stop letting people carry side arms(personal as well) because drunk Marines kept having duels and shooting each other?
>>30535896
Then don't put that shit on the rifle.
>>30535987
Are you a Marine? Because I'm pretty sure Army 240 gunners just carry the 240--only the USMC is dumb enough to make their infantry carry two primary weapons a la cawadooty
>>30533801
>>30533801
T. Joseph Stalin
>>30533747
Working in the armory for a bit and had to keep a 9mm on me. When I became a tank commander we all had 1911's which was a bit odd, we also kept a rifle.
>>30533832
Mostly because they just want to.
>>30535837
Hickok45 hits targets at 80yards with a pistol, he missed maybe one out of every 15 shots.
not even a machinegunner but having 331s carry an A4 along with the 240 is messed up.
>>30533933
>Historically, yes
No, actually. No. Not even historically.
The only people that did that shit was Soviet Russia, and even then, the evidence was anecdotal and it possibly only occurred on a few occasions during the German push to Stalingrad
>>30537287
Hickock also did competition shooting and probably puts more rounds through pistols in a month than most people would in a 4 year enlistment.
>>30533801
Yeah I remember that too,I was once hiking around Foy and there it was this Foxhole Norman trying to charge the town,but he failed and behind the lines in the trees area there it was this crazy ginger probably a major swearing at this poor guy,then he reached his pocket and unleashed a fucking K5 and proceed to chamber a round,luckily a non armchair general stopped him and then some 29th ID faggot entered the server,rushed through no man's land,relieve uncle Norman,blitzkrieg all the way through german lines and saved the day.Then the admin banned him cause he offered sigaretten to a group of pows and killed them all
>>30537518
Fuck man, you were there too? I didn't know what the fuck was going on that day.
>>30533747
Tank crewmen all get side arms
>T. was tanker
Travis Haley was force recon not SOF or MARSOC and he shot a dude in the head with a .45 while he was in.
>>30536143
I vaguely remember a deployed naval/marine officer of some sort carrying around the sword they're allowed to buy and scaring the absolute piss out of Iraqis because of the implications of carrying around a sword or something
>>30533832
>>30533867
Also when conducting PowWows (I forgot the fuckin Arabic word) where an officer, his PSD or Operators have to sit down and have tea with a village/tribe leader. Rifles don't come inside the room because "they are for war" but they can keep their pistols because "they are for defense". You never know when someone's gonna get uppity.
>>30536342
>because drunk Marines kept having duels and shooting each other?
Funny, my dad who was in the Marines back in the first Gulf War mentioned this. Was this really a thing?
Only time my dad used an M9 was when some Iraqi was walking up to his vehicle when he was stuck in a bunch of traffic. Pointed at him with it and told him to back the fuck off
>>30537691
>able to notice the dude's safety was on then shoved the ak away from him, drew from concealment and shot him twice in the head in under 2 seconds
Haley is one hardcore motherfucker
>>30533767
Well...not always
>>30533747
I'm HUMINT and I get one.
It's neato and makes the other pogs jelly.
>>30533747
Back in the early days of Afghanistan we didn't have a lot of pistols with us, I had mine because I was a scruffy Lt, but for the most part we just sort of 'made do' and I'd loan it to my SAW gunner when needed in urban environments. By the time we hit Iraq though, made sure we had a lot more spare for those times we might need them
>>30544074
anyone in HUMINT 1. wouldn't say they were. 2. would never use the word "neato". I call bullshit. Anyways, 3924 here, we got M4 and M9 just for surf and berth team shit. I would rather have had just a Mossberg for that kind of shit
>>30544120
Nigga I talk to other HUMINT dudes here all the time. The fuck you on about?
And you obviously don't know intel that well if you don't think we use the word neato.
>>30544127
You can spell, so your probably white... yet you use the word nigga? Is there anything about you that is real?
Real question from total no knowledge about armies and deployments.
Do snipers carry anything besides the long distance rifle?
I can't imagine assault rifle + precision rifle that seems too heavy when you add the snipery gear, plates, disguise, etc..
Do they actually get to go full on counter strike and get snipe+ high caliber gun? Is it realistic IRL?
>>30533767
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Chontosh#Navy_Cross_citation
>>30544186
I don't know shit about armies and deployments as well, but isn't that the point of having a sniper-spotter duo as well? Sniper lugs around that big rifle while spotter has spotting equipment and, say, carbine?
>>30544140
>your
Oh the ironing.
>>30544186
>Do snipers carry anything besides the long distance rifle?
Generally depends on the mission, shorter trips into indian country of 1-4 days they might carry a carbine or something, longer than that and they'll generally rely on the spotter and team for their support.
Stop thinking video games have anything to do with real life
>>30537287
standing still in a relaxed environment shooting at a stationary pre-ranged target. it's still a hell of a feat but there's no way it compares at all to a battlefield situation
>>30544285
the guy says he has no knowledge on the topic no need to be tacticool
>>30533747
Me in CoD
>>30533747
Because when they'll spray all their ammo for primary weapon they need sidearm.
Of course it wouldnt' be a problem if military adopted .50BMG bolt action rifles and train people to hit things rather than spray and pray but tell that to somebody and they'll be
"b-b-b-but if I'll have 1/10 inch calibre ammo designed to kill small birds I will kill you in 300 shots which I will line up easily and fire in 20 seconds because there's no recoil, y-y-y-ou will achieve the same effect with one round that's why you're inferior"
>>30533747
Every groundpounder carries both, but officers (in the Air Force, at least) only need to qualify with the pistol.
I read the book american sniper and i'm pretty sure he mentioned using a pistol in a firefight while clearing a building
>>30544342
I wasn't being mean, you'll just get a black and white answer from me.
Want a hug fest go join a social club
>>30544390
I know life's not a video game that's why I hoped someone who maybe served or personally knew about this could answer.
From the behind the keyboard point of view, it feels life it makes sense to have that emergency option especially when the weapon you carry is restrained to long ranges.
What if the spotter dies?
What if you get separated?
Fuck I wish some armyfag would answer. I'm genuinely interested in this.
When you admit video games got you interested in /k/ in the first place people immediately assume that you cannot make the difference between IRL and games.
I don't know why.
>>30544364
>>obvious bait
>>30544446
>muh AR, it fires rodent-killing ammunition, 20 rounds may kill my enemy, maybe, I am so happy I have my AR instead of rifle that would be so fucking ineffective to kill man-killing ammunition and which single round turns the enemy into a mess, because I'm a limpwristed faggot who can't stand recoil at all.
>>30533747
If you're teeth but you carry an LMG/MMG or otherwise unwieldy rifle you might bring a sidearm for FISH etc.
British officers, vehicle drivers, any kind of crewman like tankies, aircraft, boaties etc etc, snipers and SF and SF Support like 1PARA elements all are trained and armed with pistols.
For those wondering which, it's the P226 and the M9.
JIDF here. desu I've only ever seen them on people with non-lethals taking up their hands, they tend to come in handy in those situations. See: Marmara
>>30544520
Oh, and I've also seen them on operators a few times, which makes sense, because they're easily concealable even without luggage, so they're pretty much your best friend when doing shady work.
>>30533869
kek
>>30544568
Why don't these people change their surnames... jesus christ
>>30533747
Machinegunners, officers, SNCOs. We also had some extra pistols on deployment and gave them to our pointmen for clearing houses. Sometimes you just need a pistol. Though with M4s becoming the new standard issue, there's probably even less reason for them.
>>30533795
1. Getting another chance of honorable death instead of ISIS capture.
2. Need for be armed all the times because of green on blue attacks in the bases.
>>30533801
Calm down Ivanov
>>30533801
> We warhammer 40k now
>>30533853
Still seems cripplingly overconfident to not have a back up weapon. Hope for the best prepare for the worst and all that.
But hey I guess they decided they needed the extra ammo more.
Doesn't the British SAS put a big emphasis on pistol use and training?
>>30535595
This is what you do when fighting a dishonorable opponent. You don't surrender, instead you accept your fate and decide to take as many with you as you can. It might be more than they have.
>>30533747
That one marine with the tac light on his pistol gives him a +2 to hit during night fights negating the darkness -2 modifier but also gives his enemy's a +1 initiative to spot him due to him giving away his position and +1 to hit.
>>30536492
It's not so bad if you equip the Fast Hands perk, but I myself typically choose Scavenger in that slot
>>30544614
what else do you expect from a professional buddy fucker
>>30537518
Fuck, what game is that? RO2? Some refrence that flew above my head very fast?
>>30536157
Yes.
Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Sailors.
The vast majority are not issued sidearms. That is the entire topic of the discussion, and the question being asked. They don't carry sidearms for the most part.
>>30536342
Carrying personal weapons hasn't been officially allowed since before WW1. Some soldiers may have gotten away with it here and there, but that's not the same as being allowed.
More often, a soldier will find or be passed along a captured sidearm once they get into theater. That happened even in Iraq, but to take that sidearm home was a big no-go. I'm sure a few people did, but if you got caught it was felony tier.
>>30544186
It depends. If somebody is using a semi-auto long distance rifle in a reasonable caliber, like .308, it may well serve them as a general combat rifle.
If somebody is lugging a .50 caliber rifle up a mountain, then it more likely is disassembled in a backpack until they set it up, and they have a carbine with them. But if you're carryingg something as huge and pain in the ass as a .50, you probably have a very specific purpose in mind for it.
>>30544749
>Doesn't the British SAS put a big emphasis on pistol use and training?
Again, SAS is an element of troops who will be tasked to operate unconventionally and to fight with sometimes smaller numbers. Exactly the folk for whom a pistol has more use.
This is not to say that pistols have no purpose for normal soldiers, but that in the grand scheme of things their use is so niche that it doesn't make sense to take all the effort to arm every single soldier with a pistol. The cost/benefit ratio just isn't there.
>>30535987
Officers carry a sidearm to enforce order within their own ranks.
The sidearm primarily exists for uppity enlisted personnel who refuse to obey orders. Either the officer or his PSG is tasked with putting a bullet in a lower enlisted monkey's head.
>>30545268
Ar-are you serious? You've never seen Band of Brothers?
>>30544445
Part of why the army adopted the sr25 was to give snipers a versatile weapon.
>>30535613
this is way better with sound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEGo41443iI
>>30544445
It depends. If somebody is using a semi-auto long distance rifle in a reasonable caliber, like .308, it may well serve them as a general combat rifle and that's all they have.
If somebody is lugging a .50 caliber rifle up a mountain, then it more likely is disassembled in a backpack until they set it up, and they have a carbine with them. But if you're carrying something as huge and pain in the ass as a .50, you probably have a very specific purpose in mind for it.
If you are carrying a bolt action, better than 75% chances you are carrying a carbine too, and the bolt action is slung on a pack.
>>30533767
You forget about Sergeant York anon?
I'm a marine security guard and we use primarily pistols, but we also use the m4 and 870.
Mostly this is due to the state department, if the usmc had their way we would only use m4's
>>30545398
Yes, because this happens in modern 1st world militaries so often.
>confirmed for watching enemy at the gates too much
