Why aren't we using superior hillbilly camouflage instead of multicam?
I understand that it would suck in the desert but having a 1 pattern fits all is exactly why UCP was such a 5 billion dollar fiasco
>>30511765
you posted a fucking thread for this?
>>30511765
Multicam is a good one size fits all, especially when you are talking about gear other than uniforms such as pouches, armor, and packs which can't be quickly swapped out.
Multicam provides a neutral base camoflague, much in the same way USMC uses flat brown gear. The uniforms in multicam/W2 work good enough in any environment to at least be a passable stopgap until theater specific uniforms get issued.
>>30511765
because there are no retired generals working in the hillbilly camo companies
get a former commandant "working" for RealTree and you'll see it within a few years
>>30511765
A couple reasons actually.
1. It is not more effective than multicam for use against humans.
2. It costs more to produce uniforms which have complicated pictures as a pattern rather than blotches or amoebas.
3. It's area specific, whereas military patterns are made to enable soldiers to move into different environments under different seasons and weather conditions.
4. Less a camo issue, but the majority of the time, hunting uniforms are made of more expensive synthetic materials.
>>30511765
>a 5 billion dollar fiasco
I really really really hope you are shitting me?
>>30511967
http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-hero-project/articles/2013/10/14/the-army-s-5-billion-new-uniform-already-being-replaced.html
>>30512001
The US military has a tonn of money i get it but this is just ridiculous...
>>30512202
UCP got replaced years ago by Scorpion/totallynotmulticam. He's just a libshit.
>>30512244
If by "years ago", you mean "middle of 2015", sure.
Yeah, Multicam was issued to troops going to Afghanistan, but it was still the standard garrison pattern for uniforms and gear.
That meant that for every soldier who deployed in multicam, they had an identical set of gear (armor, packs, pouches, uniforms) in UCP that was sitting back at base collecting dust. Basically it cost double to outfit every soldier to get them out of the shitty pattern to actually deploy.
Plus all the money spent on R&D and camo testing research (which was actually rather good research, it was just ignored by decision makers).
UCP cost a ton of cash because it was a rushed to field product and there are many indicators it was helped along by corruption.
>>30512406
Name one nation with the capability to collect from America.
>>30512659
Literally what?
This is government spending that went to US defense contractors, not foreign countries, and it was a paid contract, not an outstanding debt.
It was billions spent into the defense industry for a useless product.
These camoflages are arguably superior to many types of other camo, but let's think about it.
These camo patterns are developed for a very narrow reason. Hunting seasons are short, so they are developed for one season, in one area. These are useless in say Florida during the greener months. Duck hunting and deer hunting doesn't take place in afghanistan, the only game there is people. These are made for specific areas.
You can't take these around the world. Arguably it would be better to have each unit have special camo, such as issuing various multicam or digital camo variants depending on location, multicam tropic, arid, etc. But at the end of the day, the money saved is worth it to the Army, and the moderate reduction in camo ability is arguably useless since doctrine dictates a different strategy.
If we were invaded though, however unlikely, I could see soldiers adopting mossy oak to fuck up invading chinese.
And to answer your question, see picture.
>>30512244
>>30512659
Dude seriously, WHAT THE FUCK is with you people defending the army when it's a blatantly retarded shitheap that adopted the-worst-camo-pattern-on-earth? I was in the army, had to wear that retarded shit, and I can tell you that the army has easily the shittiest decision making process with regard to standardized acquisitions that I have seen compared to every other NATO country.
>>30513079
Okay in their defense, yeah the army has a shit accruement policy but whatever, it's a no shit situation here. I have to wear the fucking retarded thing too. But the thing is, the camo developed by the army wasn't retarded. Desert all round brush worked great, it was just one general who interfered and fucked the rest of it up.
>>30513079
Every other NATO country doesn't even contribute the required about sans a few that are essentially irrelevant. We'll do things however we want and for however much we wish to spend. If anyone in our alliances has a problem with that they should fuck off.
>>30513411
Not him, but what does that have to do with a faulty adoption process?
>>30511765
>1 pattern fits all is exactly why UCP was such a 5 billion dollar fiasco
It wasn't designed for multiple environments, it was only named that to make it sound legitimate. It was a political move with profit motive.
>>30513442
>Cost matters
If we used dollar bills to heat our homes, disbanded our military, and told everyone to come collect their debt because we weren't paying we'd still be safe from invasion.
The point is, no nation even has the capability to occupy the USA with or without resistance nor will they for many generations.
>>30512949
tfw no DPM
>>30513593
>all that nonsense
Again, what does this have to do with the US Army having a fucked up procurement process? You're just typing words, but they serve zero capacity as a rebuttal or explanation for what the hell you're trying to get at.
>>30513655
Learn to read maybe? The point being made was it's unacceptable because it cost $5 billion dollars.
It could have been $500 billion and it wouldn't matter.
>>30513118
>Every other NATO country doesn't even contribute the required about sans a few that are essentially irrelevant. We'll do things however we want and for however much we wish to spend. If anyone in our alliances has a problem with that they should fuck off.
What the fuck are you talking about? I said the army has a dicked up decision making process for new gear. I didn't say that nato had a problem with it or that it would matter if they did. I'm saying that their fucking camo is normal/functional shit and the army is a retarded piece of shit for adopting ucp.
>>30513741
>The point being made was it's unacceptable because it cost $5 billion dollars
Not by the person that you replied to.
>>30513785
kek
Are you retarded or just pretending?
>>30513805
Read: >>30513764
And:
>>30513079
>>30513079
>>30513079
>>30513079
the original post mentioning NATO.
>>30512949
http://www.cabelas.com/category/Cabelas-ColorPhase/396159480.uts
I've seen it first hand, the leaves change colors according to the external temperatures. So around 70 plus it's green and under 70 degrees Fahrenheit, it turns brown.
>>30513890
That's not how it works.
>>30513890
Lmao that's some cityfag tier shit right there.
Cabelas is absolutely genius. I bet they can even figure out what type of American Force wheels each shopper has on their Denali/Platinum/Longhorn crewcab 4x4.
>>30513933
I'll be honest, I don't know how to read that graph. What does PWP and FC mean? How far water penetrates water and allows greenery to come up according to what type of soils there are around? Sorry that's just a complete guess.
>>30513938
You're probably right. It's made out of comfy material and of course you'd never want it for out in the field for a long time.
>>30513764
>>Every other NATO country doesn't even contribute the required about sans a few that are essentially irrelevant.
u wot m8?
>>30514047
Who gives a shit about a bunch of culturally enriched noguns literal c u c ks
>>30514067
confirmed for assblasted teen.
>>30514067
>culturally enriched
America pls
>>30514026
The point is temperature isn't a decent indicator of foliage color outside of Bermuda going dormant when it gets cold.
>>30514122
So... 75% white then? Only racist morons distinguish Hispanics as being a race.
>>30514171
>75% white then?
you think that's a high amount?
>Only racist morons distinguish Hispanics as being a race
They are a race retard. And the US is only 60% white with white kids already a minority.
>>30511772
this is how the boards are actually supposed to be used.
Big gay qtddtot generals don't get anything done, because they're poorly indexed and don't indicate to the user whether they contain useful info. Had he posted this in such a thread, no one interested in this topic would ever find it, and thus it might as well not exist.
>>30514203
>
Today, organizations in the United States use the term as a broad catchall to refer to persons with a historical and cultural relationship with Spain, regardless of race and ethnicity.[4][5] The U.S. Census Bureau defines the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino to refer to "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race"[34] and states that Hispanics or Latinos can be of any race, any ancestry, any ethnicity.[35] Generically, this limits the definition of Hispanic or Latino to people from the Caribbean, Central and South America, or other Hispanic (Spanish or Portuguese) culture or origin, regardless of race. Latino can refer to males or females, while Latina refers to only females.
But you're wrong.
>you think that's a high amount?
No. I don't think it matters.
>>30512202
That article is just meant to sound fancy.
That 5 billion would of got cut entirely from the budget instead of going to things the military could use it for if it wasn't spent.
Also UCP isn't that bad. Nothings perfect and camoflage only really lasts up till your into a fight if even.
>>30511765
IR signature
>>30514423
>Also UCP isn't that bad.
Literally, objectively worse than what it replaced. It's bad.
>>30513890
lmao nigga just use ASAT.
Don't need all that fancy shit.
>>30514449
Depends on what you think camo is for.
practically it's not exactly meant to be concealment which a lot of people think it's purpose is.
>>30514541
No. You're wrong. There is a quantifiable difference in effectiveness between UCP and other patterns. The verdict is in, the data have spoken.
>>30514541
The pattern is for concealment, you contrarian retard.
These aren't the days of yore where you need bright colors and unit flags for command & control.
>>30511765
Even UCP looks better than this abomination
>>30514514
I can agree with you I suppose, I just thought I would point it out. Chinese invisible blanket camo when?
>>30512406
>Costs like .5 mil to deploy 1 guy to Iraq/Afghanistan for 1 year
>They get issued with uniforms that will probably be destroyed over the course of the deployment thru wear and tear
MUH $300 WASTE PER SOLDIER
Grow up
The real question is why aren't you using superior hyperborean, volkisch white-aryan camo patterns?
>>30518043
Body armor, rucksack, pouches, the whole personal equipment loadout is doubled.
Plus, even if they burn through an issue of uniforms on deployment, the waste of money for UCP uniforms they left at home is still waste.
When it comes to the cost of all the personal gear, that shit adds up when you're talking in the scale of tens of thousands of troops.
>>30518043
It is a waste retard. All uniforms that can't be used in theater or in garrison (dirty uniforms and FR-ACUs) are a sunk cost. All PALS integrated gear must now be retired from service. That shit costs a hell of a lot more than pants and jackets. Ruck sacks, foliage watch caps, gloves, kneepads, etc. are now just trash.
Kill. Your. Self. You retarded fucking UCP apologist.
>>30513623
>mfw no atacs
you can't see me because atacs
>>30518068
Those patterns lost them the war, that's why.
Which hillbilly camo would you pick. I am partial to Predator camo green deception
>>30513890
>mfw this is useless to someone who hunts in Maine, or anywhere in the Northeast, or North, or really anywhere not in the southern or lower-central US, or at high elevation
>>30518135
Which is why the Americans used leibermuster to make their woodland patterns, the Bundeswehr used Dot 44 to make flecktarn, and the Russians just came out with pic related in 2004. (can you guess which pattern they shamelessly copied?)))
>>30518120
I remember when they tried to create covers for the armor as a cost saving measure and ended up just adding more to the cost.
![5ai13m[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VJGhxJh.jpg "5ai13m[1].jpg")
>>30518210
Oh man, you're actually serious.
>Americans used leibermuster to make their woodland patterns
That's just a blatant lie. Just totally false.
>Bundeswehr used Dot 44 to make flecktarn
Ooh wow, Germany used an old German pattern...then they became the SJW posterchild for the world.
>Russians
You have GOT to be kidding. The Russians are notorious for ridiculous and shitty camo patterns. Their army doesn't even use a standardized pattern so who gives a shit if some of those retards are wearing Nazicam?
>>30518295
>I don't know what i'm talking about, yet that does not mean I'll stop.
German camo lost them the war and then the victors copied all of it? You are literally retarded if you believe the SS camo was trash. Dot 44 was the first camouflage to introduce small and large scale patterns to dither the outline at all ranges and leibermuster was the first pattern to introduce color and dyes intended to defeat optics in the infrared spectrum. literally every decent pattern in the modern era uses innovations Johann Georg Otto Schick introduced. Its ok to be wrong but don't a belligerent retard on top of being incorrect.
>>30514827
>The pattern is for concealment, you contrarian retard.
No it isn't, jar head.
It's meant to break up your outline to aid in concealment but it's not really concealment in itself, concealment would be a bush you hide behind.
If you're moving no pattern is going to conceal you from a human eye. Maybe if your standing perfectly still in one spot for ever and just waiting for someone to walk into where your about to start making a ton of fucking noise and muzzle flash you're camo pattern isn't going to conceal shit.
>>30511815
Underrated post.
Everyone else ITT is naive as fuck.
>>30519310
>camouflage is not for concealment
That is exactly what camouflage is for. The purpose is to break up the human shape and blend into the surrounding environment. That is, by its very nature, concealment. The "bush" you're talking about is the most fundamentally retarded way I've ever seen anyone try to deny the function of camouflage. Not only are camouflage patterns designed to conceal the wearer without the aid of vegetation, but you are implying that bushes or other foliage is always present on the battlefield. Sandy deserts and snow fields still fucking exist in war, jackanape. Besides, you completely ignored what >>30514827 was saying in order to build a rather bizarre strawman. He said "camouflage is FOR concealment", which it is. You said "camouflage is NOT concealment". Uh, okay.
>If you're moving no pattern is going to conceal you from a human eye
...WHAT? Who are you even arguing against? Your initial claim was that UCP isn't objectively worse than M81 and 3-Color Desert "depending on what you think camo is for". >>30514541
Well, that made zero fucking sense because:
A. UCP was said to be a better concealment system by the army when first issued.
B. You gave no other reason for what UCP is used for (not that there is one).
Nowhere, ANYWHERE did anyone say anything about noise and light discipline. Do you realize this? In order for your rebuttal:
>Maybe if your standing perfectly still in one spot for ever and just waiting for someone to walk into where your about to start making a ton of fucking noise and muzzle flash you're camo pattern isn't going to conceal shit.
...to make ANY sense, someone would have had to have argued against this at some point.
This is an excellent example of how UCP defenders are completely ignorant of anything relating to camouflage, in complete denial of mountains of evidence, illiterate, and mostly just very dim overall.
TL;DR: You are woefully stupid and UCP is terrible. Just accept it.
>>30519770
>hurr evry1 is dum its the money hungry guvmint
The post isn't "underrated" you twat. Everyone's heard this joke. Nobody cares even if you are samefagging.
>>30513741
Shut the fuck up Donny.
You are out of your fucking league here Donny. You're like a child that wanders into the middle of a conversation with no idea what the fuck is being said. Nobody is having a difficult time collecting money from the Army at all. The contract was signed and payed for.. Not to a foreign country ( where the fuck did you ever pull that from? ) but to a domestic contractor.
Your misunderstanding of the basis for argument is astounding to me. The military is given a budget by congress,they spend that money until it's gone, and then they have to wait for congress to approve other funding. So YES it would matter if the price was substantially higher, because the budget would be ruined for other projects or procurements.
I guess this common understanding of how military spending works has totally eluded you. You're very welcome for the lesson.
Now shut the fuck up.
>>30519310
>MFW you're trying to defend ucp
>>30511816
Kill it with fire i cant look anymore
>>30511796
this, but additionally cost
Since this thread has devolved into an argument about UCP, let me throw my 2 cents in. I was in the Army for 8 years, and all I wore was UCP. I managed to come in right after all Woodland and Desert cammies were completely phased out, and left before they starting issuing MultiCam to troops in Afghanistan. Here are some reasons why I despise UCP ACU's.
1-The pattern is terrible at doing it's job. This has been scientifically proven, so I won't get into it anymore than that.
2- It is entirely unimpressive. This is important for an everyday wear uniform, because when they're in garrison, troops need to look like professional soldiers, not amorphous grey wrinkly blobs. You see, in an effort to cover their asses, and because of the giant retarded Velcro everywhere, the Big Army decided UCP were not to be ironed, washed only in cold water with very little detergent (gross) and without fabric softener (double gross). What this led to were faded, wrinkly and incredibly stiff uniforms that constantly looked like ass and were highly uncomfortable. Add to that the Army's insistence that you blouse your pants made it look even worse, because to properly blouse pants need to be creased, so when they weren't, they just ballooned out and flopped around like extra skin. (Don't even get me started on some units requirement that they be tucked into your boot and not bloused using bands)
3- The ACU as of UCP's introduction is incredibly uncomfortable and prone to tearing. Why? Velcro. Velcro pockets in 8 different places, Velcro name tapes, Velcro shoulder pads for flags and unit patches. Velcro wears out fairly quickly with a lot of use, so get used to your cargo pockets constantly being open and getting filled with dirt and shit because the tiny hook part of your Velcro ripped off, or simply just doesnt work anymore.
>cont.
>>30523659
They're also very ill-fitting compared to other uniforms I've worn, and makes everyone aside from the muscliest of bros and the tubbiest of fatbodies look like slightly out of shape 30 something's. An old saying we used to have about females in ACU's was ,"If the ass is fat in uniform, you cant handle it," which pretty much sums up how it makes everyone look. Clothes that don't fit will always feel uncomfortable, and doubly so when it's made of some sort of poly-cotton bullshit that will tear skin off your inner thighs and leave your gooch looking like week old hamburger meat. And lets not forget how fucking awful berets not only looked but felt. Not once when I was stationed in Texas did I think, "Boy, I sure am glad I have a black 100% wool sock on my head!" And no one knew how to actually wear them aside from Rangers and *some* Airborne guys.
Had a Sgt. Major somehow make his look like Cap'n Crunch's hat, and he did it on purpose. Shit was all folded and creased.
And another point about Velcro, go look at pictures of soldiers trying to roll their sleeves since that became allowed. Good fucking luck GI Joe.
I'll wrap it up because I think I'm rambling at this point, but they fucking suck. The entire uniform needs an overhaul, not just the pattern. But the pattern was probably the most egregious error in the design, and I'm glad its gone. Even if I'm a little salty it's all I ever got to wear.
>mfw someone tries to defend UCP
>>30523797
>>30523659
I wore ACUs in Iraq in 2008 and I agree completely.
>>30523797
>>30523659
Yeah. I actually like the velcro closures on the chest, shoulder, and ankle pockets. But for everything else this rant is spot on. The cargo pockets being velcro means that carrying any kind of weight in them is a lost cause.
The idea of velcro nametapes and unit patches is fucking horrible for mass issue. The 1% of soldiers who need to have "sterile" uniform identities are just going to wear uniforms with that shit cut off. For the rest of soldiers velcro nametapes are nothing but a liability and they look terrible.
The crotch of the pants is infamous for being terribly stitched.
The extra "elbow pad" and "knee pad" sleeves are pointless and another place for velcro bullshit.
On deployment everybody in my unit wore either Crye, flightsuits, or parts of the air crew uniforms because of how fucking terrible the ACUs were. And that was with multicam ACUs, so it wasn't even the pattern that was the issue, but the uniform itself.
>>30511815
Precisely.
>>30521147
How is that depending UCP lawl
>>30526149
What does this mean?
>>30513741
You're a fucking imbecile, something which doesn't bother me that much, because you'll likely die from a negligently self-inflicted gunshot wound.
>>30514203
Hispanic is actually not a race. It's an ethno-cultural variation inside of one or more races. There are Hispanics who are of entirely European ancestry, and those entirely of African descent. Most happen to be an admixture of indigenous South American and European genetic stock.
>>30518079
>the waste of money for UCP uniforms they left at home is still waste.
You're a fucking idiot and have obviously no experience.
Even if it was only one camouflage pattern, they would still issue you 4 sets to deploy with that are flame resistant. They're also going to get beat the fuck up and you'll probably blow the crotch out on every single one of them.
