The best thing that ever happened for the anti-gun people was the association of the left and anti-gun sentiments.
If guns become a left VS right thing, than gun rights will lose, just a matter of time. You can't hold onto gun rights if half of the people were convinced that their stance is anti-gun just because we let people pigeonhole liberals and socialists with the anti-gun platform. And all this bashing 'marxists' and 'libruhls' online is contributing to that anti-gun victory.
If the is pro-gun, and if, say, half the left is pro-gun, that will cement any pro-gun victory.
Post leftists with guns, because it will be the leftists with guns who will save the 2nd amendment, if its to be saved at all.
Just tell em about the Battle of Blair Mountain, the Ludlow Massacre, and the Homestead Strike. People on the left fought industrialists with guns to get modern labor laws.
I can respect an actual Socialist or Communist a hell of a lot more than I can respect the American left.
At least Gommies are willing to fight for what they believe.
>>30505615
It's funny since left wing death squads are historically more real than right wing death squads.
I don't get why niggers like malcolm X and the black panthers and Che and other commie or leftist or whatever revolutionaries get so much hate despite being actual revolutionaries who fought with guns and understood what war was
I mean I get disagreeing with their opinions but what I'm trying to say here is I don't get why liberals in particular think guns are bad when it's always been through a gun that they've accomplished shit anyway
>>30505615
>And all this bashing 'marxists' and 'libruhls' online is contributing to that anti-gun victory.
Neosocialists are anti-gun, there's no two ways about it.
Sorry.
Has there ever been a documented grabz wearing a Che shirt?
>>30505760
Nigger looks like Big boss fucking hell
>>30505738
>I get disagreeing with their opinions
reminder that this is a picture of law-abiding citizens exercising their rights and that the reason you would have ever thought otherwise is because they were painted as maniacs by racist leftists.
>>30505738
>liberals in particular think guns are bad when it's always been through a gun that they've accomplished shit anyway
That's the point. They don't want YOU to have them. You're clearly racist, stupid, or both. They are """""mentally superior""""
>>30505799
What I meant was "You niggers are free to disagree with whatever because you have the right to your own opinion" because I wanted to avoid a "che was an evil bastard!" "No he did nothing wrong!" thread derail
>>30505770
Hory shet
>>30505809
That doesn't make sense though. There's a bunch of people who idolize Che and the black power movement shit yet still disarm themselves and vouch to never use guns. I'd expect them to be pretty pro gun and want to train and read up on shit in preparedness for whatever "revolution" they want to have
>>30505770
>>30505837
This is why mgsv is one of the worst games. Because it attracted secondary shit like you two niggers that never played the fucking games
I dont think you understand why most modern leftists are anti gun. Modern liberals are the losers of western civilization, and since they cant join 'em, they want to destroy 'em. The left is against anything masculine or assertive and anything seen as self sufficent is ridiculed. ("Why have guns you have the police?") The left vs right dynamic used to be real men disscusing and debating ideas, those people are all gone and replaced with the modern fags we have today.
>>30505615
You're framing it as half the population being right and the other left, that's retarded. Just convince them not to be leftist cucks.
>>30505909
People are getting pigeon-holed on both sides into caricatures, that's the point. All these blanket generalizations EVERRYONE does fucking sucks.
>>30505615
In America at least, your argument holds absolutely no weight. Since the 1980's, liberals have heralded the tighter and tighter restrictions & gun laws as well as restrictions on other basic freedoms recognized by the Constitution. That's 4 decades of undermining the rights of American citizens.
So when conservatives actually, really, LITERALLY have to remind prominent leading liberals that they can't suspend a person's 2nd Amendment rights by ignoring their 5th Amendment rights, AND THE LIBERALS DON'T CARE, then the liberals have no leg to stand on by saying they are "pro-gun".
Gun rights in America are not a standalone issue. They are associated with and interconnected with other rights of the citizen, rights given by God and enshrined in the Constitution. Liberals do not care about the rights of the individual citizen, because the rights of the individual are forfeit for the liberal's vision of what is good for the total citizenry. This is wholly and completely anti-Constitutional.
Get rid of your 8th grade communist obsession. In the real world, communists kill and rape and destroy nations. They destroy economies and spread war and aggression.
Also late 20th & early 21st century liberalism is a verifiable mental illness.
>>30505615
I do not understand how anyone who is against the people's ownership of firearms can call himself a leftist. Sad are the days when equality is synonymous with a larger, more priviliged state.
>>30506109
>rights given by God
Fucking K E K
>>30505615
Inane post.
The left only supports civilian (or rather "revolutionary") possession of guns when they aren't in power. They are in power, so naturally they *don't* want civilians to have guns. That isn't going to change in the near future.
How do you go from THIS....
>>30506339
To THIS
>>30506352
This is how.
>>30506352
Not that the far right is much better
>>30505839
American left isn't about revolution, it's about using the ballot box to get free shit.
If you chase off the capitalists, there won't be any free shit left to steal.
>>30505615
For fucks sake OP, here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3Lm_gu-ZY
>>30506359
Welcome to propaganda and the year 2005. As long as the times are good, only the lower class morons will be openly found in the far ends of the political spectrum. Things are changing again, for the worse, sadly.
>>30505615
>Leftism always wins out against Conservativsm
>Gun control is a part of leftism
>Therefore Gun Control will inevitably win
Yeah naw, fuck off. Gun control isn't some part of the progressive agenda by happenstance, it's an essential component to its totalitarian end goals.
>>30505615
If enough leftists could be convinced that guns are good we might get full autos legalized again.
>>30506434
>Things are changing again, for the worse, sadly.
We have a false economy propped up on borrowed money.
When the price of oil goes up to $150 a barrel and stays there, all hell will break loose. The only reason times have been so good is because we have been consuming 100,000 summers worth of sunlight over the past century. We are still fundamentally a solar powered species. One that just happened to luck into gigantic natural stores. Once those stores are exhausted we go back to real time collection, and nothing comes close to the energy density or utility of crude.
>>30505865
It's past you're bedtime.
>>30506503
More advanced solar power would do as well as nuclear power. Electric cars will work just fine as well.
>>30506228
literally read the Founders' documents
Then fucking kill yourself
>>30505865
This
In the Spanish civil war, won the wrong side.
>>30506594
I'd rather if the fascists and the Reds somehow exterminated each other. That would have been a victory.
>You will never kill leftists and toss their corpses into mass graves for Franco
Feels bad man.
>>30506559
>More advanced solar power would do as well
It wont.
1kW per 1 square meter at noon intensity. That is the best you are ever going to do, and it isn't good enough. My car makes 180kW and it is pretty slow.
Besides energy, we use oil for nearly everything. The only reason we are able to grow enough food for everybody is because of petrochemical fertilizers. Everything is made out of plastic. If you look, oil is used everywhere.
Nuclear solves the power problem (and it is really the only way forward), but it doesn't solve the raw material problem.
>>30506557
NO I HAVE NOT EVEN GOT MY TENDIES YET
>>30506594
The Republicans really weren't Communists, at least at first, despite Fascist propaganda. They were left-leaning but distrustful at the USSR. However due to the Fascist interventionism they eventually accepted heavy Soviet meddling and the NKVD purged many Republicans to replace with loyal Stalinists. George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia goes into all this.
Had they won early on they would have allowed Spain to be better off than under Franco, who was a pretty stagnant ruler.
>>30506567
God's not real and the constitution won't save you from minorities.
>>30505684
>>30505615
Workers are cissexist assholes, why should leftists support them lol.
>>30506567
>literally read the Founders' documents
Then it's some "primal impulse" or whatever else rather than God. Basically all Founding Fathers were deists.
>>30506567
I love this meme and it sounds like you didn't fucking read anything either
m-muh in god we trust
>>30506677
>God's not real
Debatable, depending on how you define God and/or deity and/or an intelligent creator. Atheism is just man shouting into the vastness of existence that he is the lone intelligent & supreme being in the universe. It's arrogant and asinine.
>>30506677
>the constitution won't save you from minorities.
Nope, it sure won't. But the Constitution recognizes my right to keep and bear arms, and those arms will fuck minorities right up.
>>30505730
Um lol. No.
>>30506742
hey man, what did i ever do to you? :c
>>30506742
pro 2nd minority here
Same to you
>>30506109
Approved.
>>30506735
>Basically all Founding Fathers were deists.
While this is a meme that just won't die, I won't argue too much. Many of the Founding Fathers were influenced by Deism, but they were not Deists. In fact, the only reason this meme exists is because many of the more publicly recognized and familiar Found Fathers were functionally Deists. Like Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin, for example. How you rate the Deist influence that was found in other Founding Fathers depends on how much they strayed from the established teachings of their respective churches. Washington was a good Anglican and a host of other Fathers were Christians as well.
>John Jay
>Patrick Henry
>Samuel Adams
>John Adams
>Alexander Hamilton
Even the skeptic Benjamin Franklin was enthralled by the sermons and evangelism of George Whitefield, a rabid, foaming at the mouth Calvinist.
>>30506741
Not a meme when its true comrade
>>30506742
>Atheism is just man shouting into the vastness of existence that he is the lone intelligent & supreme being in the universe
Dank strawman mate, apparently atheists completely deny that alien life or God could exist. Exceedingly few atheists say firmly that "God does not exist", and are usual treated like jackasses by their own kind.
>>30506753
Good. If a crazed, methhead honky breaks into your house, then by all means shoot the fucker.
>>30506817
>apparently atheists completely deny that alien life or God could exist. Exceedingly few atheists say firmly that "God does not exist", and are usual treated like jackasses by their own kind.
Then functionally, they are not atheists. Not in the cultural sense of the word (for the past century or so). They'd be better described as skeptics or deists or agnostics.
>>30505684
Don't forget Oklahoma's Green Corn Rebellion.
>>30506687
This.
Fucking white males deserved to be shot up on both sides.
>>30506774
Based Lewis. In a perfect world, he and George Orwell would have been bros.
>>30505760
>wearing a Che shirt
No, but Che himself was a fan of disarming the villagers he terrorized.
>>30506594
go eat a dick commie
>>30506833
You don't get to redefine the definition of atheism when it doesn't suit you.
Atheism is a disbelief or a failure to believe in the existence of God or gods.
Many atheists label themselves otherwise because of the stigma that the title of being an atheist holds, which largely stems from theists who don't understand the definition.
Somebody who says, "God does NOT exist", is a complete and utter fool who is treated as such by most people.
Most atheists are agnostic atheists, basically saying, "I don't know if God exists because I don't see proof, but there is no proof that God does not exist, so I cannot take a stance either way".
Atheists and agnostics in practical application are one and the same.
>>30505615
are we being being raided by reddit and /leftypol/?
>>30505615
What/who did the anti-gun leftist meme even originate from?
>>30506670
>They were left-leaning but
When there were fucking Carlists and other monarchists on the side of the republicans I find blanket statements like this incredulous. Everyone conveniently forget fascism was revolutionary ideology when it comes to this discussion. FFS the main resistors who got shit done in Nazi Germany were the traditionalist Prussian conservatives and a Lutheran pastor.
>>30506750
>Um lol. No.
May I cite this brilliant dissertation in the future?
>>30505848
Eat shit faggot, best gameplay of the series. Would've been perfect if it was completed
>>30506893
>You don't get to redefine the definition of atheism when it doesn't suit you.
Not me doing it bro, it's Western thought since the late 1800s.
>Atheism is a disbelief or a failure to believe in the existence of God or gods.
Then someone saying "There is no God." meets this criteria, no?
>Many atheists label themselves otherwise because of the stigma that the title of being an atheist holds, which largely stems from theists who don't understand the definition.
Hmm. Maybe police your own terms better in the public sphere then? Come back in 100 years when you've reclaimed the word for your "agnostic/deistic/skeptic/practical" definition.
>Somebody who says, "God does NOT exist", is a complete and utter fool who is treated as such by most people.
And yet he is still an atheist right? By the definition you provided?
>Most atheists are agnostic atheists, basically saying, "I don't know if God exists because I don't see proof, but there is no proof that God does not exist, so I cannot take a stance either way".
Okay.
>Atheists and agnostics in practical application are one and the same.
Which is why pure atheism, by the cultural definition of the term for the past 100 years or so, is complete lunacy. You and I seem to agree on this.
>>30506919
Leftists that wanted mandated collective peace and prosperity, but didn't want to get their hands dirty in the process? It is funny how the left was once associated with the working class labourers who busted their asses for shit pay in poor conditions, and now it is pushed by well-groomed nu-males who have likely never used a hand tool that wasn't attached to a latte machine whilst fiddling with their 500 dollar phones.
>>30506893
>redefine the definition
kek
>Atheism is a disbelief or a failure to believe in the existence of God or gods.
Aren't you doing the thing you just said you shouldn't do?
>atheists are agnostic atheists
So they are agnostics, as in not atheists.
>>30506919
From all the socialists & communists who disarmed their citizens and then murdered them.
>>30506905
We have this thread like every two weeks. They eventually get tired of being reminded of their stupidity and shamble off.
>pic kinda related
>>30506919
I think when people complain about "liberals" and "leftists", they keep forgetting that left-leaning moderates and centrists who vote democrat are primary factor, but that admits too many normal people, about half the country, so they just focus on the tumblrinas and politicians.
It doesn't look good when somebody says "I love america and its people, except that 500% of them are faggots'.
Poor libertarians, socialists, and other ideology minded people. They get stuck having ideological convictions when most of the people are pragmatist centrists who are the main force between both parties in a two party system.
>>30506951
Different anon, but you simply need to go to the root of the words to know their meaning.
(a) = the lack of
theism = belief in a deity or deities
(a) = the lack of
gnosticism = the belief that knowledge is certain
>And yet he is still an atheist right? By the definition you provided?
He is a gnostic atheist. The same way there are gnostic theists and agnostic theists.
>>30506976
>except that 500% of them are faggots'.
I meant '50%', not 500% kek.
>>30506968
i want these redditors off my 4chan
>>30506919
>Russian SFSR constitution of 1918 has right for workers to keep and bear arms because arms were used to throw off opressive capitalist overlords
>USSR constitution of 1924 has no right to bear arms because it turns out that the people would also use arms to try to throw off oppressive communist overlords.
>Basically every communist govt since has disarmed its citizenry
>>30506873
And blacks
>>30506982
>He is a gnostic atheist. The same way there are gnostic theists and agnostic theists.
Just like there are people who are a fifth gender and otherkin amirite?
>>30505615
>>30506817
>>30506893
>>30506919
>>30506976
>>30506982
ITT: People who un-ironically change the definitions of liberal, communist, socialist, and atheist whenever they feel like it
>no true Scotsman
Get fucked, all of you.
>>30505615
Nobody made it left vs. right. The left started incorporating gun control into their platform. The liberal globalist worldview does not incorporate an armed, self-reliant populace.
People bash marxists and liberals online because they're the ones enabling these anti-gun fucks to get into power, and generally opposing other freedoms. Name even one prominent leftist today that supports gun rights. You can't.
>>30507052
>The liberal globalist worldview
Since when was globalism just a liberal world view?
Jesus man, you drank the coolaid didn't you?
The left being scared of guns is a good thing.
The conservative people who want to be left alone having guns is good.
The leftist people having guns so they can implement their shitty revolution where they arrest everyone over a certain pay rate and people who trigger them would be a horrible thing.
It's awesome that it worked out the way it did.
Authoritarian pieces of shit don't have guns.
Non authoritarian people do.
Bow go back to revleft you pinko fag
>>30507052
>The liberal globalist worldview does not incorporate an armed, self-reliant populace.
Just saying, libertarians are open-borders, free-trade, capitalism and globalism kind of chums, but also very pro-2nd amendment.
So uh... fuck you.
>>30505615
You are not wrong. It is only a matter of time before our freedoms are gone.
Let's hope for a grandfather clause
>>30506919
the majority of modern leftists are shitters who shout for upheaval while secretly enjoying the comfy status quo, and will do whatever they can to protect said status quo, which includes civilian disarmament. They fight against the working classes and are essentially traitors to their own cause, often without realizing it.
t. leftist
I think people are combining everyone on the left and the classical liberals/libertarians and the socialist/communist fellows into a some super hyper left united group represented by college straw trans-men.
Just to have some sort of symbol to collectively hate and blame for everything. Its tiring.
>>30507415
>conservatism
>non-authoritarian
Ayy lmao
>>30505706
They're willing to murder millions of people too, for the crime of being white/christian/successful/owning property/etc
Easy to respect huh
Because a conservative and tradition society like 1950s America was very pro-gun. So pro-gun that the majority of 1950s/1960s americans were pro gun control and gun bans... wait, what?
>>30507570
>"The fifties"
>graph starts at 1959
>Stupid leftist idea that all conservative ideals are summed up by a simplistic Andy Griffith Show like America
>Didn't even look into polling methods over time, sample size, compare to other polls, etc
>>30507585
>>"The fifties"
>>graph starts at 1959
You think the trends suddenly reverse themselves starting in 1958?
>Stupid leftist idea that all conservative ideals are summed up by a simplistic Andy Griffith Show like America
America wasn't conservative and traditional in the 1950s?
>Didn't even look into polling methods over time, sample size, compare to other polls, etc
You expect a thesis paper and a bibliography in a 4chins post?!
>>30507605
>You expect a thesis paper and a bibliography in a 4chins post?!
"I can't substantiate my argument: The Post"
>>30507605
>You think the trends suddenly reverse themselves starting in 1958?
Well we'll never fucking know, now will we?
>America wasn't conservative and traditional in the 1950s?
Define both of these things, defend said definition, and then prove that this period of time did in fact meet those criteria.
>You expect a thesis paper and a bibliography in a 4chins post?!
Of fucking course I do
>>30507626
>Well we'll never fucking know, now will we?
Good point, I will try and see If I can find out more and post results later.
>Define both of these things
Actually, you bring up something interesting. In that what is considered 'traditional' and 'conservative' keeps changing with the times. Where are all them Dutchmen with their powdered Whigs and wooden clogs at?!
>>30505684
and Matewan. my great grandfather, and his family, were in town for that. they were part of the town defense. my grandfather was a little boy then. them hillbillies didnt take no shit from them fucking detective faggots.
those old detective agencies were nothing more than PMC's. they killed anyone the govt said to, and they were nothing more than govt sanctioned death squads.
>>30506742
>It's arrogant and asinine.
the universe better slap us and prove we're not as cool as we think we are, then.
Waiting.
>>30507663
>the universe better slap us and prove we're not as cool as we think we are, then.
Don't worry, it isn't as arrogant and asinine as you are.
>>30507671
if God isn't arrogant and asinine why does he demand we worship him while withholding entry into the magic fairyland of rainbows as a carrot on a stick?
>>30505738
because even more than the so called right, the left see anyone not of their political aristocracy as knuckle dragging imbeciles, filthy peasants and serfs that should have no means to affect change in the system, nor weapons to defend their rights as citizens.
>>30506559
and what happens when you run out of the lithium and other deposits to make the batteries for said electric cars?
lithium is one of the big natural resources of Venezuela and afghanistan.
>>30506677
oh fuck, i wish we had a master shake Vocaloid, running posts on /pol/ through that would be the beginning of some of the stupidest shit ever.
>>30507715
Strip-mining of other planets and asteroids.
>>30507725
holy fuck that would be amazing
maybe we can pay Dana Snyder to read some choice /pol/ cuts in Shake's voice
>>30507730
how? are you going to make a electric rocket?
>>30507754
its i read all the posts, that i dont think in the voice of Jungle Recon from AFT.
The fastest growing segment of the civilian gun market is black women. After Orlando, new purchases (that is, gun buys from people who did not already own guns) among gay men absolutely skyrocketed. Liberals currently champion gun control schemes that their own logic and arguments can defeat. We need to stop sticking to traditional, conservative arguments like defense against tyranny. They're good points, but liberals do not respect them. You have to use their language, not ours, to subvert them.
Gun ownership used to be a liberal platform. It can be again. Unfortunately, the gun industry has spent so long marketing to conservatives that they've done it a little too well and have alienated the other side. Don't be a part of the problem, be a part of the solution. But there is little ideologically consistent liberal position that should actually favor gun control, and this is obvious if you really take the time to engage what they believe rather than combat it.
Now listen up.
For instance, liberals - with despicable republican support - currently champion banning guns for people on the no fly list. They do not respect arguments over things like natural rights. We can either try to explain that to them, which demonstrably doesn't work, or try arguments they do respect. For example, you could argue that such laws disproportionately affect minorities, and is thus racist. Definitely an issue of liberal concern. Do people named Mohammad not deserve the right to defend themselves from the oppression liberals claim is omnipresent around them? If they do, then the No Fly List is indefensible and using it to ban guns from people who have done nothing wrong and not been convicted is indefensible. Furthermore, point out the sheer hypocrisy of anyone on the left embracing a program started by Bush and the Patriot Act after spending years arguing against it.
>>30507821
Criminal gun violence disproportionately affects blacks. Blacks disproportionately live in areas of higher crime and are more likely to be victimized than whites. Self-defense needs to be, for lack of a better word, marketed to them along these lines. Making guns more expensive and more difficult to access, making them more costly with things like "gun violence taxes," disproportionately hurts the rights of minorities to arm themselves against threats they are statistically more likely to face than whites.
For a more radical argument - don't argue defense against tyranny against the fedgov. They see big government as an ally and arguing to fight against it is a fool's errand and unpersuasive. Instead, try arguing for Black Lives Matter. Yes, BLM is stupid, but they respect it, and we must use that, so hide your power level for a while and consider this. BLM argues that the police are SYSTEMIC in racism. I put that in caps - systemic. It's not merely isolated cases of individual police officers being racist, but there is a SYSTEM of violent oppression against the black community. This is a core concept of BLM. If there is a SYSTEM that is violently oppressing them, then it is not their right to fight back against that system? If so, is not the Second Amendment's defense against tyranny perfectly relevant, today, in 2016?
This is how you sell gun control to liberals. You have to work it into their logic and use their language - frame guns, AS THEY ARE, as tools to fight oppression. Framing it in language they've grown to see as opposed to their interests just turns them further against guns. We need to frame guns in a way that they comprehend and respect. This is how you sell gun ownership to liberals once again, as it was before.
>mfw someone call himself a "Liberal Socialist"
How can an individual lack such common education?
>>30507829
Remember: Subverting an ideology requires using its own language and ideas against them.
You can't start by directly confronting things they form their worldview around. We must embrace those things and introduce slight alterations in those core ideas by exploiting flaws or holes in what they believe. I firmly believe gun control is a poorly considered issue for most liberals, one born purely of emotions and bumper-sticker-tier memes and phrases, not complex analysis. This really shouldn't be too difficult.
If you're too retarded to figure out how to sell gun ownership to people who are absolutely obsessed with the idea that privileged, powerful groups who cannot be fought with peaceful democratic means (money in politics, gerrymandering, etc) are constantly oppressing them, well, you're no more retarded than the gun industry's marketing teams, but still, that's pretty fucking retarded.
>>30505615
The whole gun issue is a libertarian vs authoritarian issue.
>>30505684
Leftists dont care about that shit today, they just care about making sure to change their social media pictures to this weeks current event and liking each others facebook posts about refugees or the lgbtiasupvt or whatever community
>>30507682
>demand we worship him
He asks. You choose.
>withholding entry into the magic fairyland of rainbows as a carrot on a stick
Transcendence and salvation is a personal choice anon. If God were really so arrogant and asinine wouldn't he be the perfect narcissist, seeing only a perfectly cooperating and obedient mirror image of his own greatness in creation? And instead here we are with the free will to disobey him. Besides, there are doctrinal differences as to what gets you in.
>>30507907
>You choose.
Great choice. Eternal suffering in hell or servitude to god.
>>30507915
>Eternal suffering in hell or servitude to god.
Kek. Your understanding of Christianity is fedora tier. It's late, and I;m tired, so I'll just tell you to read The Great Divorce and got o bed.
>>30506434
>hard times make hard people
>hard people make soft times
>soft times make soft people
>soft people make hard times
>>30507992
Yeah no. I'm not going to bother. The only use I could have from that is debating with Christians and I can't bother debating with feeling retards anymore. If a person is irrational enough to believe in God, there's no point in trying to rationally convince him otherwise.
>>30508001
>tipping this hard
>being a newfag
>using geeps wrong
>>30508013
>muh fedora
You're just proving my point here. Might as well talk to animals.
>>30508001
>getting this worked up and creating this whole debate just because one person said "God given rights"
>>30508025
I'm not the only anon posting.
>getting this worked up
Isn't this pretty much the opposite of that? Not bothering myself with arguing with retards?
>>30508033
no because you're still bothering to reply
>>30508037
Replying is fun though.
>>30505615
They shouldn't be but they are.
Now fuck off.
>>30506594
What about [spoiler]muh pantanos[/spoiler]?
>>30505615
>ITT: Wahhhhh im a socialist and wear che guevara shirts and hang soviet flags in my room but i also am pro gun!!!!
>>30506359
O hi private Pyle
>>30508001
>>30507682
>I'm anti-religion but I know nothing about religion
>My favoriet person in the world is the lubless atheist
You are just as bad as the anti-guns
>>30506919
>muh not true communism hasn't been tried!!!!!
Communism is fucking retarded
>>30506998
That's untrue when it comes to Yugoslavia which had (and ex members still have) a high number of guns per capita compared to most of the free world, USA and Switzerland excluded.
People need to understand that political parties focus on hot button issues that attract single issue voters. Polls on gun control are a bit misleading. The truth is many people vote for democrats specifically for gun control, but most don't care. They might lean one way or another, but gun control isn't a huge issue to them. The number of people that are terrified of AR-15s is a lot smaller than the number of people who wouldn't mind if they were banned. The opposite is true to. Many republicans who report being against gun control wouldn't lose sleep over semiautomatic rifles being banned.
>>30505684
>he thinks the modern left is for the workers
wew
>>30508548
Serbia, in particular, is well armed. I guess they just don't want to give up their guns.
>>30508574
This actually means that the rights focus on converting people to be 2nd Amendment zealots is a pretty good strategy. It is why the NRA has only become more and more powerful.
>>30508001
>won't bother reading about theology
>poor understanding of the Christian faith
>hate Christians because parents divorced/caught me kissing a boy/git diddled by priest
You know this is exactly what antiguns do right? Just replace Christian with gun
>>30505738
Refer to Scott Adam's article regarding how "common sense" gun control will never work between the left and right in this country
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/146307088451/why-gun-control-cant-be-solved-in-the-usa
The right cares about rights while the left cares about fee fees
>>30506339
>>30506352
You realize they're literally the same, right? The Red Guards were a bunch of retarded college-aged fanatics who idolized Chairman Mao. Today, we would call them SJWs.
>>30507436
>the third-world hordes from Somalia and Venezuela will totally support my individual rights if I just share enough maymays on Facebook
Lolbertarianism in a nutshell
>>30507436
>libertarians are globalist
>libertarians support the right of local governments to make law
pick one
Fucking lolbertarians really are hopeless.
>>30506616
To be fair the fascists in WW2 did spend themselves hastening the fall of communism ultimately. A better end they couldn't have found.
If they hadn't inadvertently sacrificed themselves and thrust the west into super power status I cannot even fathom how many more deaths the USSR would have caused, it's difficult enough to fathom how many lives communism claimed as it is.
>>30508982
>modern pseudo-"liberals" = classical liberals or current libertarians
wat.
>>30507570
Yea I dnno, the idea that America was more conservative at some point in the past is really just a lie.
If anything, America is the more conservative today than any time in the last 100 years.
Especially if you don't count the imported liberal voters.
Stuff like the civil rights act would not pass today.
>tfw no republican-removing tomboy gf
It hurts inside my soul
>>30507821
>>30507829
>>30507862
you'd have to be mentally ill to think about gun control this much
Theres 1 million things more important
A pro-gun liberal is still a damn liberal
>>30508996
Not sure what you mean fall of communism.
Communism is still going strong, its more popular than ever in the west, its rapidly growing in south america, still dominates in africa, china is still communist, etc
ITT: Christcucks literally can't stop sucking gods flaccid niggerdick
>>30506998
>>Russian SFSR constitution of 1918 has right for workers to keep and bear arms because arms were used to throw off opressive capitalist overlords
No it didn't
>19. B цeлях вceмepнoй oхpaны зaвoeвaний Beликoй Paбoчe-Кpecтьянcкoй Peвoлюции Poccийcкaя Coциaлиcтичecкaя
Фeдepaтивнaя Coвeтcкaя Pecпyбликa пpизнaeт oбязaннocтью вceх гpaждaн Pecпyблики зaщитy coциaлиcтичecкoгo Oтeчecтвa и
ycтaнaвливaeт вceoбщyю вoинcкyю пoвиннocть. Пoчeтнoe пpaвo зaщищaть peвoлюцию c opyжиeм в pyкaх пpeдocтaвляeтcя тoлькo
тpyдящимcя; нa нeтpyдoвыe жe элeмeнты вoзлaгaeтcя oтпpaвлeниe иных вoeнных oбязaннocтeй.
It:
1. Installed mandatory conscription.
2. Working class had privilege to serve in Army as armed conscripts.
3. Non working class served as non armed element in Army.
Personal right to bear arms was not in Constitution.
December 10, 1918 it was somewhat corrected by People Commissars Committee legislation.
It required for everyone to give up all weapons (punishment up to 10 years of jail). Expect Communist Party members. They may had one rifle and one revolver.
>>30509049
>hurr durr Berkley is raising western cummunists
zzzzz
gommunist guerillas have been a thing in shit america for over 50 years.
but the only communist threat that's ever really mattered is the same one. the soviet union didn't die, it just reorganized with the same people pulling the strings.
ww2 did ultimately cause its failure to achieve global hegemony. which was both the ultimate and immediate goal of communism.
bearing that in mind i won't speculate beyond the fact that people seem to be awakening to the notions of individual rights, albeit slowly. the west could do better but it also hasn't devoted the same numbers of personnel or funding to influencing foreign populaces and still faces cultural divides in 5/7 continents, but fuck them. Africa and south America will be spent before they care to truly self govern and non-communist asia sees as an ally against china.
>>30505865
> why most modern leftists are anti gun.
Not only modern leftist are anti-gun. Old school Bolsheviks banned guns as first thing to do. Leftists = anti personal rights.
this thread derailed
>>30505760
> he never played peace walker
Laugh. Point and laugh.
>>30506627
My family sided with Franco. My grandfather still speaks highly of him to this day. Did have a relative who was a famous Spanish anarchist author and physician.
Feels pretty good.
>>30506634
Synthetic fossil fuels
>>30509110
the only communist threat that ever mattered has been the domestic communists
Who, like I said, are more popular than ever. Yes berkley and other schools are raising communists.
The US government is filled with communists engaging in agendas aimed at "social justice"
>gommunist guerillas have been a thing in shit america for over 50 years.
They haven't been running the countries down there until recently
>>30509110
Also: Africa is being colonized by the chinese now, they are communist, china is communist.
Phillipines just elected a communist president
Vietnam is still communist.
I see a lot of people who wish to pretend that the Soviets were the entirety of world wide communism....
It's so completely untrue!
Hell, the neo-cons whom Trump is purging from the republican party were all communist Trotskyites in origin.
>>30509469
China isn't as communist as it calls itself but more ultranationalist.
Philippines elected a populist former communist.
Vietnam is in fact still communist in name but now an economic partner of the west primarily for fearing its 'communist' neighbors.
The former soviets who still run Russia proper aren't the entire world of "communism" but they are still the only ones waiving the true banner.
>>30505615
>>30505615
More like the workers were cenrists compared to what the left has become. Modern day "Leftist Gun Owners" are nothing more than traitorous cunts that have no problem with more gun control or disarming the populace. Latin America is no exception when it comes to that example
>>30507497
>Generalizing conservatism
It varies from country to country based on the cultural values and founding principles
>>30509036
>on /k/
>not worried about gun control
I don't care which of the Terrible Two you're shilling for, you don't belong here.
>>30505615
Nothing should be a "left" VS "right" thing.
Go figure.
>>30509504
>Russia proper aren't the entire world of "communism" but they are still the only ones waiving the true banner.
>Yet calls China ultranationalist
>Implies Vietnam isn't communists
I'm pretty sure the commies became a bit more liberal with economics considering the famines and shit they have to face while still implementing ideology and authoritarian use of force on its own people.
>>30507510
I respect my enemies so as not to underestimate them.
I don't even know what communism means anymore. Seems like "thing I don't like" at this point
>>30509504
Clearly communist does not refer to countries directly ruled by Communist Party's
Nor to communists in the west who teach/spread communist thinking.
Nor to socialists who view communism as an ideal to strive for
Only referred to those g*ddamn russians, who are still secretly communists.
>>30507391
Because Reagan, Bush I and Bush II were great defenders of the 2nd Amendment, right
>>30507436
How's that Johnson/Weld ticket going for you?
>>30509036
Is see nothing wrong with that anons post.
Well thought out premises brought to a logical conclusion.
He is actually adding to this conversation and attempting to further our cause.
And your response is tl;dr crazy
If you think about gun control as much as that other cunt then are a boot licking faggot and maybe you don't belong here
>>30508023
>Might as well talk to animals.
You probably already talk to your cat anyway since nobody believes you're intelligent enough to have a discussion with you. Reddit cucks do not count by the way.
You don't understand much more about the universe than deists do.
I'm not a believer myself, but I have the humility to not pretend something doesn't exists just because I don't believe in it.
There are lots of unexplained phenomenons, and your mindset just is a liability to any attempt at having a better understanding of them, both from a scientific and religious point of view.
The fact you can't understand this is why you'll never be a scientist or never have any sort of wisdom to share.
Yes, you're a fedora tipper, and yes, you're being ridiculous.
>>30510874
If you *don't * think...
>That feel when Anarcho Communist/Syndicalist
>That feel when statist "libertarians" hate you because you're a leftist
>That feel when statist leftists hate you because you like guns
Feels bad, man. Anyone have that picture with Marx, Orwell, and Malcom X and their pro-gun quotes?
>>30508530
Communism is retarded BECAUSE it's practically impossible to implement (though that is true of any system that involves a "temporary dictatorship" stage; America was lucky to get a leader like Washington who was willing to give up power and transition to democracy rather than becoming an autocratic military dictator). And Stalin is really a poor example of anything related to Communism, he wasn't committed to Communist ideals and really just was a generic military dictator.
>>30508855
Rights are really just another form of fee fees though.
>>30511281
>Anarcho Communist
>>30510482
neocons are globalists too.
And come to think of it, the based quote in >>30506774 applies pretty well to them too.
>>30511281
>Anarcho Communist
>>30505684
Also in Oka Quebec when armed Mohawks resisted the local government building on their land without permission. Pic related.
>>30505615
Lefty gun lover here, I believe in gubment oversite and the right of the people to kick it's ass if it starts doing things it shouldn't
>>30511542
>>30512035
Nothing wrong with hoping for Utopian ideas even if they'll never see the light of day.
>>30512438
>I believe in gubment oversite
Richard Nixon created the EPA. Government regulations by itself is not a left right issue either.
>>30512542
Seriously though.
>anarchism
>absence of government
>communism
>a form of government
>>30512438
>Lefty gun lover here
Fuck off.
>>30512569
>communism
>a form of government
Not really, in fact it's typically defined as a "stateless classless society", so it is actually inherently anarchistic.
>>30512587
Y tho.
>>30512661
Ideologically it is part of the anarchist movement, however pretty much every society that calls itself Communist has ended up being a military dictatorship.
>>30512661
>Not really, in fact it's typically defined as a "stateless classless society", so it is actually inherently anarchistic.
You can't enforce classlessness without a strong central government to stamp out counter-revolutionaries. Hell, you can't even prevent commerce without a Big Brother style government.
Good luck :^)
>>30512661
You are talking about primitive communism where everyone lives like African tribes.
>>30506893
Somebody who says, "Santa Claus does NOT exist", is a complete and utter fool who is treated as such by most people.
Saying something does not exist does not imply knowledge of everything in the entire universe, it means we have no evidence for such a thing existing.
>>30512264
no actual fighting happened
>>30509092
Can you source this for me anon? I don't understand vatnik-runes and have read things in English that conflict with this.
>>30509507
>bolt action shotgun
>harpoon
>wicker chair
10/10 would operate with
>>30513092
He is saying only members of the party were allowed to own weapons. That's the whole point of communism. If you are a member you have all the rights of the party (in theory), if you are not than ...it's not going to go well for you.
>>30513247
>He is saying only members of the party were allowed to own weapons.
Yes I understand that entirely. I just can't read Russian so I would like a source describing what the anon described, including the arms control instituted by the commissariat, in English.
>>30513247
and to expand on this is the English translation
https://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/government/constitution/1918/article1.htm
>For the purpose of securing the working class in the possession of complete power, and in order to eliminate all possibility of restoring the power of the exploiters, it is decreed that all workers be armed, and that s Socialist Red Army be organized and the propertied class disarmed.
>and the propertied class disarmed.
See the propertied class were not part of the people aka the party hence they are to be disarmed.
>I'm a pro gun leftist!
>I believe in the right to own firearms and that the government should regulate what you can and can't own at the same time!
>>30505615
Left VS, right Is a freedom thing not a gun thing. If you think leftist would ever be convinced to leave the 2nd amendment alone you have not done your research.
>>30513359
Another double think here
>23. Being guided by the interests of the working class as a whole, the Russian Socialist Federated Soviet Republic deprives all individuals and groups of rights which could be utilized by them to the detriment of the socialist revolution
In this part they state your rights are totally dependent on if they think you can cause damage to the Communist revolution or not. So basically you have no rights unless they say so.
>>30505615
Then leftists shouldn't keep pushing for them. If leftists weren't all about gun control, it would be one less thing I have to both about leftists. Until then, fuck all of them.
>>30506164
>I do not understand how anyone who is against the people's ownership of firearms can call himself a leftist. Sad are the days when equality is synonymous with a larger, more priviliged state.
Noted socialist George Orwell agrees.
>>30513589
*one less thing I have to complain about leftists
>>30513590
The left of today isn't about equality. They are about "my way of thinking is more equal than yours", which is the biggest crock of shit that a large group of people have bought into ever since extreme leftist fiscal policies.
Sage because this belongs on /pol/ more than /k/.
>>30505615
In the future, the media, the government, the politicians and the political parties will change the narrative, so gun rights won't be a left vs right thing, but an extremists vs "common sense people" thing.
Here we have two and half far-left parties that defend the right of the people to own weapons for three simple reasons:
>allow small farmers and natives to protect their land from politicians and big farmers
I'm talking about really rich people who owns half of the state and hire the police to go around killing people to get more land.
>let people hunt
You have no idea how important this is, a small farmer who lives 10 days away from any town needs guns and ammo without the "common sense" paperwork the government and the media wants.
>so the poor can protect themselves from criminals
The media will talk about blacks or another minority dying to blame racism, but they'll never say how most of the victims are poor. The janitor who lives in a dangerous place needs to carry a revolver or a pistol and keep a rifle at home to fight the crack addicts.
The left and center left are too busy discussing if faggots can change their names while the right and center right can't stop sucking the bankers, they basically turned into a gray center that represents no one. Here and there you'll see a politician from the right defending gun rights, but he'll be labeled a fascist.
I'm believe they do this to make the discussion something boring and force the population out of politics.
>>30513673
Will the left ever recover from their authoritarian streak?
>>30506998
>Leninism
>Communism
He ruined the left forever.
>>30507052
A major reason this has happend is that the center(which used to be known as liberals) was twisted by the media as being leftists. The social democrats today are far more to the right than the socdems of days gone by, not to mention the actual revolutionaries.
>>30507460
this
>>30513074
They killed a cop though.
>>30508996
>classical liberals
Classical liberal logic is what today we call anarchism, a far left ideology you fucking retard. Modern right-wing "libertarians" are just a fake, even their name is stolen from true anarchists.
>>30512697
That's because under Marxist theory there is an intermediate stage between capitalism and communism, that is the "worker's state" aka socialism. Most communist countries just never let go of that stage.
>>30512748
No I'm not, that's literally the definition used by Marx.
>>30512744
I'm just telling you what communism is, not whether or not it's practical. Besides, I see no reason why a state can't regulate or control markets while leaving personal freedoms intact.
Enforcing economic equality would be particularly intrusive imo, at least it doesn't have to be in the way the USSR or friends was. That came more out of a complete lack of political freedoms that was more a result of the soviet political system.
>>30514024
Wouldn't really call that fighting. there was a clash with police before the army got called in, one of the few times the Natives were actually in the right with regards to there land claims.
>>30505615
The problem with most pro-guns is that there are only two camps, "SHALL" and everyone else.
>>30514056
Tbh classical liberal (libertarian) principles taken to their logical conclusion should end in some kind of minarcho-syndicalism or market socialism.
>>30505615
>If guns become a left VS right thing
It already is.
>>30514078
What are your principles then? What are some gun control measures of recent history you would have supported/opposed?
>>30512697
>>30512744
>>30512748
From the main man Marx himself:
>Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.
Communism is just the movement which proceeds capitalism, not some capitalists nations or parties calling themselves communist.
This is what really drives me mad about people who have not read Marx, he is way more radical than you can ever dream in your simple "state-anarchy" mindset.
>>30514077
Tbh with all the shit natives have to put up with I'm surprised they don't do this kind of thing more often. There's a ton of resource development done on their land without permission or compensation, I'd be pretty pissed about that.
>>30514084
Pretty much yeah, but market-socialist- however dumb they are,- are still radically left-wing.
>>30513470
How is that contradictory? Unless you live in total anarchy, government regulation of what the public can own is inevitable.
>>30505615
I don't agree with a word that some backwards, sister fucking, Confederate loving Johnny says, but if he wants to burn a bank with me, I'd let him.
The greatest divide is between Bourgeois and Proletariat, all others are secondary.
>>30514173
please be bait
>>30514173
Total anarchy always leads to some form of government, and thus regulation.
>>30515080
>if he wants to burn a bank with me, I'd let him.
I have to agree with you there, you degenerate commie.
>>30512542
Except there is when you base your decision making on these terrible and unrealistic ideas.
>>30506109
I work at a public defenders office, plenty of liberals who very much believe in the rights of their fellow americans.....2nd amendment included.
>gun owning, conceal carry having liberal.
>>30515250
But they'll still vote for the party that wants to kill you or put you in prison over the wrong kind of inanimate object.
Gun owning liberals are Good Germans. Nothing more.
>>30515300
Piss off, Phil.
Not all Liberals vote Democrat.
Hell, you probably vote GOP which is just as bad as voting for the Dems, they work together to screw the common man.
>>30515300
well both main parties are kind of shit when it comes to personal liberties, especially on a local level.
>>30512692
Because you have no idea what you're talking about.
You probably describe yourself as a "lefty" because you A.) believe in income redistribution based on some misguided care the the poor, or B.) think its cool and edgy to be culturally leftist and support all kinds of degenerate lifestyles.
Neither one of those 2 makes any sense when you weigh them objectively. And both of them lead people like you to vote for people who trample on the rights of citizens in pursuit of making wealth & power "more evenly distributed" and on making society more equal/fair/diverse.
You're a faggot. Shut up.
>>30515387
>>30515300
now with pic....
>>30515390
you sound like a corporate serf...
>>30512552
>Government regulations by itself is not a left right issue either.
One could argue that is a Jeffersonian vs Federalist issue, however.
>>30515365
once they colluded to keep it to only two parties, they essentially became one party...
picture unrelated to post content
>>30515387
Sucking cock and smoking dope and a minimum wage are not universal inalienable human rights spelt out in our founding social contract.
>>30515419
sorta....Jefferson was all about regulating banks
>>30515453
That's different tho. Banks are niggers.
>>30515433
sure there are....
>>30515390
Dafuk does this have to do with gun rights? Polarization will kill the 2nd in the end...
You hate everything about a person's views sans they agree on guns? Why dwell on that shit and not work on the common ground?
I swear conservatism gets fucktarded with it's exclusivity of views. You turn away potential allies.
>>30515433
>Sucking cock
>Liberty
>smoking dope
>Pursuit of Happiness
>minimum wage
>Life
Try again, faggot.
>>30515463
as a group the founders were pretty hostile to big multi-national corporations too and those big interests paying off politicians.
>looks at east india company.
>>30515417
>You're playing into the corporate game
>See the corporations are trying to turn you into little Eichmanns sp that they can make money
>Yeah man, the corporations
>Right now they're raping the world for money
>We don't need corporations!
>We don't need money!
>You just haven't been to college yet.
Grow up.
>>30515485
>Why dwell on that shit and not work on the common ground?
>I swear conservatism gets fucktarded with it's exclusivity of views. You turn away potential allies.
Butthurt libfag detected. Read anon's comment here >>30506109
Gun rights are NOT a standalone issue and never have been.
>>30515490
well said....
>>30515433
Don't forget feticide
>>30515523
Monopolies engineered and chartered by the Crown aren't really representative of the free market tho. It's a red herring to suggest that the Founding Fathers didn't want a competitive market economy in the new US.
>>30515527
>Grow up.
damn you really enjoy life on the plantation don't you?
banking has gone from 2% of the GDP in the early 1970s to nearly 25% today. the economy is rigged, you aren't part of the game you're a pleb.
>>30515400
What about him?
>>30515433
And the constitution only mentions the SCOTUS. There is more than what is explicitly spelled out. The document is even built that way. Read the 4th or the 10th amendments.
You don't like gays, unions or abortions, boo hoo. You also can't come up with a decently ballsy way to arrest the lot of them without becoming the lead-tablet needing jackboit you hate. So you like many conservatives just make existence harder for those you don't like with passive-aggressive laws like a pissy housewife. You edge in "right to work" or make abortion so expensive to provide the clinics all shut down, or support public servants who get on a pulpet over issuing marriage licenses when that's their fucking job in the first place!
Then you wonder where these sideways chip-chipping away at gun rights comes from? The state level BS drafted in those same pissy housewife ways, where the fuck do you think they learned that?!
>>30515527
>t. NSA
>>30515490
>>30515540
>minimum wage
>life
How fucking stupid can you get?
Oh, right. Pot smokers.
>>30515420
>once they colluded to keep it to only two parties, they essentially became one party...
Well said!
Now, nothing short of a Revolution can stop them.
Nice gun, by the way. Is it yours?
>>30515549
they didn't like monopolies or corporations charted by Washington either. Jefferson wanted to design an agrarian economy in Virginia for instance.
>>30515606
so....what does boot taste like?
>>30515490
>removing spics
Life
>removing juden
Liberty
>removing kebab
Pursuit of Happiness
>>30515669
>t. upper middle class white 20-24 year old
>>30515453
He also wanted to stop the industrial revolution from ever happening in america. Because wage earners are unamerican faggots, In his world view.
>>30506109
>Reagan banned FA and vocally supported an AWB
>Bush Sr. import ban
>original awb had many GOP votes
>tea party designed to removecsaid fucks usually ran someone so batshit the democrat wins instead
>GOP ran a guy in 2012 who signed an AWB into law in his state
The DNC incorporated gun control as a plank. That is very bad, yes but it doesn't make republicans your ally or republican-ness your litmus test for gunrights
>>30515629
In a Capitalist society welfare is allocated privately in the form of wages. Minimum wage is, in essence, society deciding the minimum amount of welfare one can subsist on. At the present it is too low in many cases, requiring us to supplement Capitalist welfare with Socialist welfare.
>>30515629
how do you feel about roads and public education?
>>30515669
I don't know, but my guess is you should be able to find out if you come out here. You sound like the type he goes after.
>>30515697
point is the Founders were not a unified front in re economic policy.
>they were pretty solid on gun rights though.
