ICBMs
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
R-7 Semyorka. The very first ICBM and somehow still the sexiest one I ever seen. Sometimes the Russians make absolutely beautiful stuff
Even became a launch vehicle, based
I love how the nozzles are all aligned and shit. And those little verniers too
>>30473918
Wasn't the V2 the first?
>>30474108
Not quite intercontinental, but yeah the V2 is the quintessential guided rocket and important as a stepping stone to actual ICBMs which were used strategically.
Unmatched design, essential, elegant... but I wouldn't call it sexy.
>>30473960
>Even
Almost every space rocket originates from an ICBM.
>>30474108
No.
>>30473918
Always been partial to the Satan myself.
What I especially like about the V2 is how distinctive it looks. Unlike other missiles the V2 doesn't look like a whole bunch of rocket stages glued together with a warhead on top. It looks like an actual vehicle that carriers a payload. It's sleek, seamless, like it's one whole thing.
>>30474177
True. It's just... I'm frequently surprised by how much of our civilian technology originated from military technology. The other day I was reading about goddamn nuclear submarines and they created the methods to dampen their sounds so they wouldn't show up on radar.
And that shit somehow ended up inside my PC's case
>>30474222
>a whole bunch of rocket stages glued together with a warhead on top
I mean look at the Sturgeon. How does this shit even work? Is it even aerodynamic? It looks they just glued some shit together and made a missile out of it
>>30474205
You'll love its replacement then.
>>30474242
There's just something utterly repulsive about this flying tube
>>30474177
Are those the rockets detached from the ICBM?
Also your pic is the monument to the whole R-7 family and is in fact Soyuz-U. The actual R-7 ICBM looked like this.
>>30474222
There's nothing to be surprised about. War propels progress, and the Cold War did that like nothing before it.
>>30474242
>>30474268
It's just a cap, anon.
>>30474281
Those are side boosters detached from the first stage of the Soyuz rocket.
>>30474335
I know, I just don't think very much about it. Learn about new examples pretty much daily.
I chose that picture because it had those sexy red nozzles visible, I have trouble distinguishing between the launch vehicle/ICBM versions
I remember seeing an even better one but I can't find it right now
>>30474396
Oh jesus fuck I found it
>>30474257
Oh that's very nice.
>>30474396
I have quite a few.
>>30474422
>soviet heavy ICBMs
I love soviet superscience. They invented the most crazy shit like supercavitating torpedoes. I think some of their SLBMs supercavitate as they clear the submarine too
>>30474462
Goddamn if that isn't the most beautiful missile!
>>30473960
I love how the top looks like they stole it off the Saturn-V
The way the first stage fuel tanks taper inwards is so retro-futuristic. Definitely has more character than our tubes next to a bigger tube.
I posted about ICBM guidance circuits on /g/ some days ago, asking how they worked.
>>>/g/55230771
>Autonetics D-17 guidance computer from a Minuteman-I missile.
Pretty interesting answers
>>30474507
"The top" is this and no one stole it from anyone. It is a very basic idea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_escape_system
>>30474554
>US flag is larger than the Russian one next to it
>On their own fucking rocket
I don't know if I should feel pride or not
>>30474585
You should rather feel stupid. It's not Russia's problem American flag uses 10:19 proportion instead of proper 2:3. And if that is not convincing, there's a huge Russian flag on the top that you apparently did not notice.
>>30474635
>This pro-Russian damage control shit
Dude, seriously. You don't need to get assblasted because I noticed something I thought was funny.
Where the Soviets gained my attention with weaponry, modern Russia earned my respect by allowing several of pic related to stay alive.
>>30474701
Facts are "pro-Russian damage control shit"? Whatever.
>this current convo
God damn this got real autistic.
>>30474737
Settle down.
>>30474666
>>30474674
>>30474681
My dick!
>>30474769
>>30474806
Oh come on man. You keep escalating this you gonna give me priapism
>>30474222
>the V2 doesn't look like a whole bunch of rocket stages glued together
>It's sleek, seamless, like it's one whole thing.
Could that be because the V2 only had one stage?
>>30474737
read that as
Fyects are "pro-Rossiyan dyemege cyontrul shyeit"? Whatyewer.
>>30474806
>>30474817
Buran and Polyus?
>>30473918
>russians in charge of painting ICBMs
>everything looks like cigarettes
>>30474890
Yep, written in the file name.
>>30473918
>We need to to go farther, Ivan. Five times farther, in fact.
>Add four more rockets.
>>30474763
... is that the Russia / North Korea crossing?
I expected more fencing.
>>30473918
Have you guys ever wondered, why does it have so many small rocket engines?
Technically it doesn't make sense.
It's because soviet engineers couldn't construct one big rocket engine, so they just put several copies of german V2 engine.
It works, but it's as effective as putting 20 lawnmower engines on a truck. :)
Used to read a long & detailed article about soviet space race, very interesting.
>>30475163
The article you read obviously didn't teach you anything. It doesn't use "many small rocket engines". It only uses five.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-107
>>30475169
What is this?
A rocket for ants!
I want one at least three times bigger then this.
>>30475258
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QIzXI-mlJjs
>Thunk
>>30475163
>>30475233
http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a19966/russia-actually-lights-it-rockets-with-a-giant-match/
They light it with a match.
IDK; I lean to wards the "If it's stupid but it works, it's not that stupid" school of thought. So a lot of Soviet and Russian engineering is quite appealing.
Seeing as Soyuz is the most used, most reliable, cheapest, and longest serving rocket system, whatever design choices they've made, they fucking worked.
>>30475313
The rocket is called Start.
>>30475322
Well.. second cheapest.
Pretty sure the SpaceX Falcon9 series rockets have it beat now for $/kg per launch.
>>30474419
that's rather lewd senpai
>>30475233
Speaking of, I've never really found a textbook description of what constitutes "one engine".
Some might say that the RD-107 is 4 separate engines, while i call it one single engine with 4 different combustion chambers, fed by a common turbopump.
Some will draw the separation at the thrust structure and so on.
>>30474371
>>30474268
It's the world's biggest lightsaber!
>>30475129
I think it's China
这是中国
이 한국어입니다
t. google translate
>>30474585
The ratios are different, dummy.
>>30473918
took sputnik to space too, cuz ruskie science
>>30474177
>Almost every space rocket originates from an ICBM.
Pretty much this. At that time, Space delivery and warhead delivery was interchangeable.
Mercury used Atlas and Redstone missiles
Gemini came from an Atlas and Titan II missiles
R-7 family branched out to a whole bunch of missiles and space vehicles.
Even your DirecTV satellites took a ride on a heavily modified Atlas rocket (and by "modified I mean "in name only"). I think it's Atlas 5.
Rocket launches and failures are equally awesome in my book.
>>30477820
This particular one was some Slav that installed a sensor package the wrong way around.
Little 1.3 billion fuckup. The poor fellow is probably still mining snow in Siberia somewhere
>>30476190
This is just a matter of your personal ignorance, not some definition vagueness. A rocket engine consists of the combustion chamber, pyrotechnic igniter, propellant feed system, valves, regulators, the propellant tanks, and the rocket engine nozzle.
Question ICBMfags:
Is there any technology today that acts as a reliable countermeasure to ICBMs? (i.e., completely prevents delivery of payload)
What are the weaknesses of an ICBM? In other words, if you were to develop a countermeasure, what common design feature would you target as a weakness?
Also, how is this sort of technology not the new arms-race objective? Wouldn't an ICBM countermeasure break the nuclear meta, and bring us back to an era of semi-conventional warfare?
>>30473918
It looks like it has haemorrhoids.
>>30473918
Someday i want to see the Nasa rocket tests they do in the desert, just to see that sheer amount of power gives me tinglies.
>>30478269
There's plenty of countermeasures for ballistic missiles, though they vary in effectiveness.
Obviously the best way to counter them is to hit them before they launch. Alternatively, intercepting them as they ascend would be fairly easy, though getting an aircraft (or even less likely, a SAM) close enough to actually make the intercept would be next to impossible.
Interceptors for the reentry stage are the most common ICBM countermeasure, and they've been in development for decades. The issue that they run into is that individual anti-ICBM missiles/systems tend to have low success rates, meaning you need lots of interceptors to stop a single missile.
So while it may be theoretically possible to build a missile defense shield that would stop all incoming missiles, it's neither practical nor economical. ABM systems had been under development for much of the Cold War under the Nike program, but it was determined that it costed far more to protect a target from a missile than it took for the Soviets to build a missile - in effect, all you have to do to counter an ABM shield is build more missiles.
>>30478269
>Is there any technology today that acts as a reliable countermeasure to ICBMs?
No.
>What are the weaknesses of an ICBM?
Falling warheads can be destroyed by an atmospheric nuclear explosion, missiles technically can be intercepted during the boost phase or en route to their targets before warhead separation.
>how is this sort of technology not the new arms-race objective
It was contained by a treaty before the US withdrew from it.
>Wouldn't an ICBM countermeasure break the nuclear meta
Could happen if there was at least a concept of a countermeasure reliable enough. There is not and won't be for quite a while, so the right answer in no, not in the foreseeable future.
>
http://webmshare.com/Yx0ZO
Here's a launch with sound, since /k/ doesn't support webms with sounds.
>You will never be the sexiest one OP has ever seen
Shit sucks, yo.
>>30474108
It's the concept basis, but not intercontinental. It's just a regulat single stage ballistic missile, its modern cousins being stuff like the russian SCUD's
>>30474222
>It's sleek, seamless, like it's one whole thing.
MAAYBE that's because it's a single stage missile while other more modern equivalents are multi stage? Derp.
>>30478269
>Is there any technology today that acts as a reliable countermeasure to ICBMs? (i.e., completely prevents delivery of payload)
There are 2 main countermeasures. The first being Anti Ballistic Missiles which come in two kinds:
1: Soft Kill. This one uses explosives (either nuclear or regular) to destroy the enemy missile/warhead. Its easier to make but is less reliable and if you use a nuclear bomb, you run the risk of potential fallout and the EMP from the nuke might fuckup your own systems, making you vulnerable for further strikes.
2: Hard Kill. The missile itself is used to ram the enemy missile/warhead. This is the hardest kind to make but it doesnt have the potential downsides the soft kill one has and you insure that if it hits, the enemy missile/warhead will be destroyed.
The other countermeasure is high-powered lasers either mounted on satellites or on planes. The advantage is that you can destroy ICBM's traveling at any speeds but the downsides are the required power, limited range in the atmosphere, cooling requirements in space based lasers systems and line of sight (cant target what is behind the horizon).
>What are the weaknesses of an ICBM? In other words, if you were to develop a countermeasure, what common design feature would you target as a weakness?
A weakness in ICBM's is that they are relatively slow when taking off (boost phase) so if you can get close enough with your ABM's, you can take down ICBM's with relative ease. Another weakness is that they travel with a ballistic arc. A trajectory that can be easily calculated to see where the missile/warhead is going to.
>>30478269
>Also, how is this sort of technology not the new arms-race objective?
It is. Hence the ever continuing development of American ABM technology and Russian ICBM technology. You can see this with new blocks of SM-3 missiles being developed for the Americans and the RS-26 and RS-28 missiles with the Russians.
>Wouldn't an ICBM countermeasure break the nuclear meta, and bring us back to an era of semi-conventional warfare?
Yes, yes it would be the danger is that if any country fears its nuclear detterence is going to be broken, they might decide to launch it all before they are rendered ineffective.
>>30478570
>R-17
>Modern
>>30478644
Relatively, yes.
>>30478698
R-17 is much closer to V-2 than to the current year on the time scale.
>>30478739
And?
>>30478745
And it is not modern.
russia only has a space program because the US funded it in the 90s to build parts for the ISS.
>>30475129
There is no land border between Russia and NK, so gonna go with "no".
>>30479462
>RocketDyne
What a fucking gay name
>>30479470
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea%E2%80%93Russia_border
>>30479496
Everyone liked them until their parent company tried to irradiate Denver.
Of course the government on government action that resulted was probably fun to watch.
>>30479499
Did you not even read your own link dipshit? The "terrestrial border" is a river.
>There is one crossing on the North Korea–Russia border: the Friendship Bridge over the Tumen River
>>30479530
That is a land border. It may be on a river, but it is still a terrestrial border.
Are you a moron? Asking for a friend.
>>30479543
Please, point to the river in this picture. >>30474763
>>30474585
Both scale and and the white space on top is throwing off perspective.
>>30479571
What does that have to do with the Russian/NK border?
The writing on the Chinese arch is clearly not Korean.
>>30479456
But we needed to fund it. They have by far the most reliable tech for getting humans into space.
>>30474419
uhnf
>>30479527
Story?
>>30479692
Rockwell ran the Rocky Flats Plant in Denver. They were doing careless things like letting shavings of plutonium catch fire and vent into the outside air (multiple times), store lubricating oil contaminated with Pu in 55 gallon drums outside where they would leak into the soil.
FBI caught wind of it, wanted to investigate, the Doe told them absolutely not because Rocky Flats was a national security installation and not subject to pesky things like court orders.
DoE told their security that any federal agent, warrant or no, that attempted to gain access to Rocky Flats was to be treated as any other intruder.
DoE Security interpreted this to mean that they would have to shoot the Federal Agents if they tried to enter the plant.
The AG thought better of it, let things die down, and then some time later told the Doe that they needed to brief Rocky Flats on a terrorist threat.
This turned out to be cover for an FBI operation to infiltrate the plant and serve warrants and subpoenas to it's management as well as execute a search warrant issued by a federal judge.
What an interesting time to be alive.
>>30479771
>They were doing careless things like letting shavings of plutonium catch fire
Oh I just looked it up, by "shavings of Plutonium" I meant to say "850 Kilograms of Plutonium in one go."
Sorry.
>>30474177
>Muh dick
>>30479771
>>30479825
What the fuck man, that is realy fucked up.
Was anyone from the DoE brought to justice for this? My heart hopes so but my brain says no one was punished (properly) for this.
>>30479771
God I love the FBI.
>>30479653
they have the cheapest reliable tech for getting into space. Because they haven't haven't invented anything new since the Proton rocket and Souyz.
Meanwhile NASA, Boeing, and Lockmart build fucking Ferraris to do a job that a Honda Civic could do.
Musk and SpaceX are changing all of that though.
>>30479983
No, but the Cold War ended 2 years after the FBI raid, and the plant got shut down, cleaned up, and turned into a wildlife park.
>>30478589
"soft kill" refers to spoofing of guidance or sensors - You're not actually damaging the weapon, just making it not fulfil its intended mission.
Destroying it in any way would be "hard kill".
>>30479983
>Was anyone from the DoE brought to justice for this?
Are you kidding?
There was a class action lawsuit that went to trial and the plaintiffs won just under $1 Billion against Rockwell.
But because the DoE indemnifies all its contractors, the federal government would have to pay (not that it really matters because the Federal government also had to pay for the legal defense team for Rockwell).
But in the end the judgement was tossed out on appeal and the Supreme Court refused to hear it with no comment.
In the meantime, the DoJ convened a special grand jury, which reached the conclusion that Rockwell should be fined $18 million for violating environmental regulations. The DoJ promptly requested the proceeding be sealed so that no one would know for sure what had happened.
The proceedings did leak, but I have never read it.
Congress tried to subpoena several DoJ officials involved with the Grand jury, they all refused. Nothing happened.
So in the end, Rockwall agreed to pay the $18 million out of its own funds, which is generous of them in light of the fact that the GAO awarded them $22 million in bonuses for efficiently running Rocky Flats in 1988.
And another $15 million bonus in 1987
and $25 Million in 1986
$20 Million in 85
and so on
and so on.
No one went to jail.
But who cares, people in Denver at the time only have a cancer risk 4 orders of magnitude higher than the rest of the population.
To say nothing of the workers themselves.
Not a big deal amirite?
>>30480050
Well, not quite accurate but the spirit of your post is correct.
>>30479983
Of course, all this is nothing compared to Hanford.
Apocryphal story of a letter written by a Hanford engineer to management. This was told to me verbally, so I have no way of knowing it's veracity.
"If we continue on with what were are doing, with what we now know, or sons will be ashamed that we are their fathers, and our grandchildren will drive a hundred miles out of their way to piss on our graves"
>>30480160
Jesus fuck. I'm about the opposite of a hippy Whale Wars douchenozzle, but this shit seriously makes me wonder about extrajudicial actions against the people that just walk away from shit like this scott free.
>>30480258
>I'm about the opposite of a hippy Whale Wars
Justice does not have a political affiliation.
I have a framed poster of Semyorka schematics in my room.
Bretty neat
>>30480160
Why am i not surprised about this at all?
>>30480084
>cleaned up
I hope so.
>>30480134
You are right. I must've not remembered it correctly.
>>30480258
It seems like the simplest thing to do would be what the Mothers of the Disappeared did in Argentina.
Just camp out outside a building until you get justice.
If need be, show up bright and early at 6am every morning for years to just sit in front of the DoE.
Of course, these days security is probably too tight for them to allow that.
>>30480310
Absolutely true. However, the venue and vehicle of justice is another matter. It's too late now, since most of the fucks with any power over that situation are probably long retired, but the only way I can think of to really hit them where it hurts would be to identify every single one of them publicly, conjoin them with the faces of the people they put at risk and the land they ruined, and then make sure the public knows exactly where they all are - make it impossible for any of them to be hired at a significant level again. Remove them from power and the act of accruing wealth; seems like about the only thing that would get the proper amount of attention in that set.
And saying that makes me sound like some sort of 19 year old Occupy protester with a deep life crisis over whether to go with the tattoo or dick piercing.
>>30480405
>Of course, these days security is probably too tight for them to allow that.
They'd work either through public opinion or law enforcement to clear you out of there inside a month. Once the press lost interest and moved on, you'd just be dangling meat.
>>30474173
V2 wasn't guided
>>30473918
Looks like they put a bunch of cigarettes together and made a super cig.
>>30480420
See, the key is persistence.
After 20,000 people were murdered by their own government, and the new democratic government didn't prosecute anyone for it, they camped out outside the Plaza de Mayo for literally decades.
You could also just find the individual officials and just stay outside their houses.
Never threaten violence. Don't even hold up a sign. Don't speak unless spoken to.
Just make sure that whenever they go to get mail in the morning, they have to avoid eye contact with you.
>>30480429
It was nominally.
it had gyros to keep it pointed in the right direction during burn phase.
>>30480449
>See, the key is persistence.
>Never threaten violence. Don't even hold up a sign. Don't speak unless spoken to.
It is very, very hard to lead a large group of people to that kind of discipline. Just look at the Occupy movement. Anything like that with a powerful message that resonates with people is extremely vulnerable to internal schism over methodology (see: Black Panthers, or the Civil Rights movement in general) or hi-jacking from power-hungry idiots inside or external forces.
What happened with your example is so interesting because it really was such an anomaly in large group protest psychology.
>>30480481
See, this tactic works with a small group of people who have an intense personal interest in a subject.
Say, mothers whose kids disappeared off the street one day and have no idea what happened to them besides the fact that they probably aren't coming home for Christmas.
Everyone involved has the motivation to stick to it, the pathos to make the protest meaningful to the average person, and a strong incentive not to fuck things up.
Bonus points for people who were personally harmed by civil strife, and so don't want to engage in civil strife.
>>30480503
>Say, mothers whose kids disappeared off the street one day and have no idea what happened to them besides the fact that they probably aren't coming home for Christmas.
Right, but even within that drive set, you'll have people that will want to form a silent accusation protest. People that will want to form a vocal and loud peaceful protest. People that will be prone to protesting violently. People that will want to riot. Even people that will attempt to organize actual violent political faction organizations intent on sabotage or vendetta. Everyone reacts to tragedy and outrage in different ways.
Shit, in the case of Rockwell, it'd be impossible just to get people to give enough of a fuck about something that happened over 30 years ago to do anything about it.
>>30480564
See, this is more something to do if you find out that you've been screwed.
The Rockwell thing is over and done with.
But in the specific case of Argentina, the country had such a long history of political violence that everyone knew that it would accomplish nothing.
This is also one situation where "mothers of the _____" is actually quite a good thing. They're the people who spend the most time keeping hot tempered men under control, and they typically have a breadwinner that subsidizes this shit.
>>30475163
You are dumb
