http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/06/14/lcs-program-changes-review-john-richardson-navy/85865948/
>Instead of three mission modules being available to switch out on deployment, the Navy is looking at moving to a “one ship, one mission” approach, where each LCS will be designated as surface, anti-submarine or mine countermeasures ships with the ability to switch out if needed.
>Instead of three mission modules that can switched out in theater, we will move [to] something simpler: one ship, one mission
That's right, want to swap from SUW to ASW? You have to sail all the way back to Wisconsin to do it.
>>30461574
>You have to sail all the way back to Wisconsin
>>30461586
>OP picture
>Not getting the joke
What's hilarious about this is that in trying to make refitting magical, they only succeeded in making it 100x easier than ever before.
> gj navy
>>30461574
>>30461586
>It's hard to sail to Wisconsin
Well Alex, I'm gonna have to say, what is the St. Lawrence Seaway?
>>30461574
I told you faggots that's what they are going to do, another time MURRICUNT got things wrong again, no longer surprise there, now we are just waiting for you faggots to admit that these 2.5 trillion dollar lemons are turds
>>30461574
>Wisconsin
>Sailing
>>30461656
Sprey sprey go away, the F-35 is here to stay!
>>30461574
Why not copy the Chinese?
They have missile boats that can carry different missiles for different missions. Like Land attack, Anti ship or anti air or anti tank.
>>30461795
>I can only measure a ships worth by what weaponry it has
>>30461666
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lawrence_Seaway
Milwaukee is a port.
>>30461795
Because the USA already has ships specialized for land-attack. They're called aircraft carriers. And for anti-air the USA has special ships called "destroyers" that hold a fuckload of missiles. And for anti ship duties, the U.S. has Seawolf and Virginia.
The LCS is best thought of as an auxiliary ship that can handle side missions so the big guys can stay where they are needed the most.
how did they manage to fuck up making a frigate?
>>30461574
>LCS
It's like a synonym of "kek" by now.
>>30461574
they have issues with crew training if they take the modular approach. hey it's great if you can swap gear, but when you try to get trained pers to use it then you start running into problems.
>>30461877
Worth more than the LCS for sure
>>30461944
What was the modules for?
>>30461965
They didn't. LCS will serve its purpose well. Hell, they even revised the design to include a few extra weapons just to appease the critics. There is no reason for further concern unless you have something new to add.
>>30461965
By not defining it as a frigate to begin with.
>>30461574
>want to swap from SUW to ASW? You have to sail all the way back to Wisconsin to do it.
Said nowhere in the article.
>>30462011
>I have no idea what the needs of the USN are or what weaponry LCS have
>>30461998
This is where someone posts that picture of a new Russian frigate smoking up a bridge, but without damaged engines.
>>30461998
What the fuck when was this
>>30462074
A few months ago. CENG wasn't on the boat and some dipshit forgot to add oil to a critical engine part when doing maintenance. The whole thing shredded itself and it had to be towed back to a shipyard.
>>30462030
No more module swaps in theater, says it right there in the article.
Austal USA and LM only have LCS components in continental USA so that's where they'll have to go.
Honestly it's the best way to go. In-theater or deployment swaps were going to be dubious at best.
>>30462038
Still shit though, right?
If they copied the Chinese way of using common VLS and then just swap the missile for what mission they have then it would've been better.
>all three in-service Freedoms have had serious engine issues
I want to like them, but fucking hell.
>>30461586
>what is the Welland Canal
>>30462098
The article also says they no longer intend to swap modules, which you quoted, so make up your mind.
>>30462243
No, it doesn't say that at all actually. It merely implies that the extra modules will be kept in the US.
>>30462136
>Still shit though, right?
No, and Chinese cold launch VLS are nothing to be envied
>>30461656
>>30462261
>it doesn't say that at all actually
>the Navy is looking at moving to a “one ship, one mission” approach, where each LCS will be designated as surface, anti-submarine or mine countermeasures ships
>>30462136
A towed sonar does not go in a VLS tube.
>>30461574
It makes more sense than switching the modules out in theater. If you need to, you COULD do it, and you could refit at any big port if it was so desired, but it's not going to be their policy. This is a good thing, it gives a dedicated crew focused on an objective.
>>30461574
NO THEY ARE NOT
they only just buying one module per ship. instead of 3 modules for every ship.
Its a budget thing. instead of transporting the ship + 2 extra modules to the theater they just keep them all on ships with a few spares in theatre and a few more back in the states.
They are just not committing to by one of every module per ship.
>>30462000
>they have issues with crew training if they take the modular approach. hey it's great if you can swap gear, but when you try to get trained pers to use it then you start running into problems.
I thought that some crew were assigned to the "module" and not the ship?
>>30462457
Other anon here, yes, that was the case. Now those crewmembers are going to be assigned full time to the ship, unless they decide to swap them out, which is still possible, but not... I'm struggling to find the right words here. Recommended?
>>30462391
>with the ability to switch out if needed.
>>30462593
>if
Meaning very rarely.
>>30461656
>another time MURRICUNT got things wrong again
They didn't get it wrong, that's exactly what the Military-Industrial Complex wanted from the start, as now the Pentagon will say they need all kinda additional LCS as each can only do one thing.
It's all about soaking the taxpayers....
>>30462856
Well yeah, they don't need to be changing them willy nilly, now do they? If there's going to be a significant mine threat, they can still change to the MCM module if needed, and so on and so forth. However, it'd have to be done back closer to home than in any old port.
>>30462136
Err, that's exactly what the Mk 41 does.
I've been complaining about the lack of 2-4 Mk 41s since the designs first came out, over a decade ago.
>>30462261
What they're saying is that they are probably going to cut back on the number of modules to be purchased (they're all years late and over budget). There may be a bare handful of spares, but it's hard to be certain at this point.
>>30461998
>Quality LM ''''''''''shipbuilding''''''''''''''
I actually hear Austal's going to win the remaining contracts but who knows, the DoD are corrupt as fuck.
>>30461795
>They have missile boats
They also have the luxury of not having to leave their sea. Tiny ass boats can't project power.
>>30461656
Fuck off, Billy Lind
>>30462269
What's wrong with Chink VLS?
>>30464814
>le China can't project power meme
These are two PLAN vessels. In Africa.
>>30464854
cold launch < hot launch
>>30461574
>Anti Sub sytem
Literally just a fucking helicopter dragging a Sonar buoy behind it, can't operate in 6' seas, can only do so for 6 hours.
>Air system
Literally just another Helicopter on board
>Surface warfare
TWO whole 37mm canons mounted, the exact same type used on Marine Corps AFVs.
>No missiles
>Draft too fucking big, mast too fucking tall, to be actually used in securing shallow areas.
>Now the first Navy frigate in 60 fucking years to be commissioned with no active missile systems; an FF instead of an FFG.
Seriously, what the fuck was the point?
>>30464882
>two PLAN
>two
>This is Chinese projection
Regardless, Missile boats are defensive ships and have shit endurance.
>>30464993
Y tho?
>>30461574
Hahah the fuckup saga continues
>>30465009
The FFG LCS has not even been finalized yet, the curret LCS's will keep their mission bays and wont be FFG's, ever.
The LCS FFG will be something like the LCS's made for the saudis, and the weapon loadout is VERY impressive.
The draft is fucking fine for littorals, 12 feet is NOTHING. The cyclone patrol boat has a 7ft draft.
The Anti sub system is not just a helicopter dragging a sonar buoy, the mission module is not even complete (but nearing completion). It has a towed, very powerful sonar and VDS working in concert bistaticly.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE NORMIE GO HOME
>>30462013
>They didn't. LCS will serve its purpose well.
No one even fucking knows what "its purpose" is now.
>>30462269
Most Chinese VLS are hot-launch now.
And, there isn't much necessarily wrong with cold-launch.
>>30465216
>No one even fucking knows what "its purpose" is now.
Mine hunting, sub hunting, and irregular warfare/littoral operations. Same as it has always been.
Now, a FFG variant will be made for it becuase the base ship modularity is that good for dedicated missions, which retards like to take as a negative. Why, i have no idea.
>>30465227
>And, there isn't much necessarily wrong with cold-launch.
Missile failing to ignite means you are going to have a bad time in a true VLS. If its at a slant, it takes up far more space.
>>30465012
In 2011 during the Libya war, China sent 7 ships in a squadron to Libya to pick up Chinese.
In 2015 they sent 5 to Yemen to do the same.
>muh only missile boats
The Chinese Navy only has 150 missile boats which are dedicated to fucking with Vietnam/Flips.
The other 200 ships are ships able to circumnavigate the globe.
>>30465230
The purpose has been changed at least 3 times now. And now we are adding a "frigate" variant as well.
Why didn't we just build more OHP's?
>>30461619
This. A trip to port to change missions. What's different about this than what they were planning originally?
>>30465243
No it does not. And missiles failing to ignite is irrelevant since failure rates in 2016 are nearly 0.
And they use true VLS. The newer frigates and destroyers have been modified or were made with hot-launch.
>>30465267
Read the article
>>30465251
Thats not entirly accurate.
The PLAN has a ton of "sub chasers" (one gun wonders) that cant really do that, The Type 53 frigate would have a hard time doing it, and the Type 56 Corvettes could not without intense replenishment. Alot of their conventional subs could not do it either, because they have to go back.
>>30465265
>The purpose has been changed at least 3 times now.
No, it has not.
>And now we are adding a "frigate" variant as well.
Yes, and? Does that change the LCS's mission? No. It just means a variant will be made. Does that change current LCS ships missions? Nope.
>>30465273
>And missiles failing to ignite is irrelevant since failure rates in 2016 are nearly 0.
>nearly
Then its still an issue.
You cold launch a missile, and it fails to ignite, its coming back to deck, and hard, metal, warhead, and fuel filled.
For very large missiles, cold launch is fine. But for normal VLS dutys, it is inferior. There is a reason why china moved to hot launch, because it is better.
>>30465285
Fuck off faggot reading is gay.
Just post traps.
>>30465009
At least try to make it look like you have knowledge of the ship you are talking about.
>>30461619
LCS have made a lot of things become practical.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L05RJ87Cg-4
Why not both?
Russian Gorshkov's UKSK fires hot launched 3M14 land attack missiles and cold launched 91R1 anti sub missiles.
>>30465840
Why get cold launch if your VLS can hot launch?
Is putting a on booster too hard?
>>30461647
OUR CANUCK SEAWAY
KEEP OUT MURICANS
KEEP OUT
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>30461998
fixed
>>30461574
>with the ability to switch out if needed.
>LCS
DESIGNATED
ANTI-SHIPPING MISSILE
MINCEMEAT
>>30463520
It was always like that, though. The navy likes the sound of "modular", but doesn't ever want to actually spend the money on extra modules that would sit around unused, so there was never a real point to modularity. If they'd actually bought extra modules, they'd probably have stopped building modules, and built extra ships to carry the extras in inventory in the name of "saving costs"
>>30462457
>>30462472
yes, but unless that particular module is used then those sailors are shore based and having to conduct simulated training. if it is permanently affixed then so is the crew with it so they're getting constant at sea time, and can do their thing for realz, even if there is no immediate enemy. and if they just deploy the module all the time anyway, then there is little to no point in not having it welded in.
the alternative is that the module is constantly at sea, but moved from theatre to theatre via airlift as a threat arises. but probably they can deal with those sorts of threats simply by forwards planning to have a ship in theatre, which means the entire need for moveable modules becomes irrelevant, and the few times it might be useful aren't worth the logistical complexity.
>>30463520
Have you looked at the budgets or plans for the future at all? They were never going to have many extra modules.
>>30467110
Why even waste an AShM on this crap?
>>30468227
Well, if you don't care about your submarines.
>>30465012
Cant wait to see china take seattle with two ships loaded with a million soldiers each.
>>30461795
You are now aware that the US doesn't have to copy the Chinese, because they already mastered that shit.
> Anti-ship
> Land attack
> Anti-submarine
> Six different kinds of air defense, including anti-surface
> All at the same time.
Do you even lift, China? Get on my level.
>>30461795
Go big or go home. The USN goes big. The PLAN stays home.
Which is to say, different doctrine, different missions, and the US can do multirole missile ships just fine.
>>30472022
>Get on my level.
AB: PESA
52C, 52D: AESA
sorry burger.
To be fair Chinese DDG are later (and more advanced) designs.
>>30472265
Zumwalt: SPY-3 AESA MFR
AB FIII: SPY-6 Dual Band AMDR
>>30472344
Zumwalt: Plz Nigga. 32 down to 3? Superior technology for sure.
AB FIII: playing catchup are we?
>>30472445
I sense the tingling anus of an angry Chinaman, let me help.
The Type 348 Radar on an 052C and 052D is shorter ranged than a SPY-1 on a Burke or Tico.
>>30472445
>Superior technology for sure.
Only need 3 instead of 30? Yep, pretty superior.
>catch up
Kind of a weird way of spelling superiority.
This was something they were obviously always going to do
They had never intended to have extra modules lying around
If they had done this from the beginning, they would have had a better ship without as much delays
But w/e
>>30472344
>Posting a radar that literally does not exist and won't be installed for another decade
Embarrassing
>>30472445
>Playing catchup
No, we have a design so great at its role, that it's been produced for decades and constantly updated. It's like the F-15E of the seas.
>>30472581
this
The LCS is a fucking travesty, the modular design failed now they have to spend even more $$$ to make it work.
>>30472486
>I sense the tingling anus of an angry Mericuck, let me help.
First of all: AESA>PESA as a general rule.
Hence AB FIII (vaporware for now) is getting a AESA UPGRADE.
Unless you have certifiable numbers, you're talking out of your ass about range that neither party will confirm or deny.
>>30472610
>AMDR does not exist
https://news.usni.org/2015/05/14/raytheon-successfully-completes-critical-design-review-for-amdr
>won't be installed for another decade
https://news.usni.org/2015/03/30/ingalls-shipbuilding-launches-first-ship-since-destroyer-program-restart
>Beginning in Fiscal Year 2016, the Navy will upgrade the ships to a Flight III configuration, which will include the Air and Missile Defense Radar (AMDR).
>>30472651
It's not that it failed, but that it couldn't ever succeed, which they would have noticed if they put a little thought into it 10 years ago.
>>30472673
>Flight III
>Vaporware
L.E.L
https://news.usni.org/2016/05/01/bath-iron-works-will-build-first-flight-iii-arleigh-burke-ddg
>>30472673
No one is claiming that AESA does not have advantages over PESA, but that does not change the fact that the Type 348 is a copy of a Ukrainian radar with a range shorter than the "greater than 100nm" official range of a SPY-1.
>>30472755
>May 1, 2016 article
>will build
>artist's conception
agree, vaporware
>>30472651
>modular design failed
>except that it not only works but it makes new technology easy to integrate onto existing ships.
>>30472801
>Issued a PSN
>"Vaporware"
You look dumber and dumber with every post. Will you be screming vaporware when its keel is laid later this year? Will you scream vaporware when its towed out of drydock for fitting out next year?
>>30472797
"Official" range.
Nice "proof".
Why doesn't the Zumwalt and AB FIII just stick with the "superior" AN/SPY-1?
>>30472874
Because simply being the best is not enough. You must be better every day.
>>30472862
>"next year"
>not vaporware
You're rather dumb yourself.
>>30472874
Because using a better radar than a better radar rustles your jimmies all the more?
>>30472905
Why do I get the feeling you are the angry Chinaman who used to REEEEEE about LCS getting AShM, claiming it was also vaporware.
>>30472905
>its litterally being sourced as we speak
>Vaporware
To easy.
>>30472926
The same one who said the F-35 would be getting cancelled any time now.
>>30472826
If it works so good why are they doing away with it?
also
>no anti-ship missiles
>only short range land attack missiles
>no CIWS
>tiny gun that does 0 dmg
yeah no it failed
>>30472887
>No one is claiming that AESA does not have advantages over PESA
>Because simply being the best is not enough. You must be better every day.
bro you're sending mixed messages ..."officially"
>>30472982
A good PESA radar can be better than a poor AESA, but you would never admit such a thing.
>>30472929
too stupid it seems
>>30472955
They are not doing anything with the LCS except making a FFG varient because it is that damn good.
>>30473008
>A good PESA radar can be better than a poor AESA, but you would never admit such a thing.
you mean your 3" dick can be better than a 7" one?
>>30472955
>If it works so good why are they doing away with it?
Did you actually read the OP's article?
>no anti-ship missiles
If you do not count Harpoon or NSM.
>only short range land attack missiles
The VLS Hellfires? They are for killing fast attack craft, and are extremely good at it.
>no CIWS
RIM-116 is CIWS
>tiny gun that does 0 dmg
It is a dual purpose gun, not a gun meant for shore bombardment.
>>30473014
I agree, in light of the evidence that guy is dumb as hell. Flight IIIs have been planned since '13.
>>30473036
A 3" long 2" wide dick is better than a 7" long 1/4" wide dick.
And in that regard, you are now aware that a SPY-1D has 3x the nodes as a Type 348 radar.
>>30472982
bro you are responding to multiple anons
>>30473071
>admits having a small dick
Second of all, the Chinese never "officially" indicated the number of nodes.
>>30473036
Its funny because the type 348 has ~1,400 transmitters total (both faces), but the SPY-1 has over 4000 PER RADAR.
Oh, and before you ask...
www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.cfm%3FARC_ID%3D604&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwi-wbCp7NPNAhXh5YMKHXzZAuIQFggaMAY&sig2=n5anGP7oZmiNdU3ncyt2tQ&usg=AFQjCNH5F00z_WOmaLE6qbXRXX_6fFOBOQ
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_348_Radar
>>30473202
sorry I don't hear "official" (which you deemed earlier to be the definitive data).
>>30473142
>admits having a noodle dick
China doesn't have to admit the count when it is a copy of a Ukrainian radar.
>>30473285
I didnt say shit, offical or not.
You need your dear goverment to tell you whats obvious.
SPY-1 is fucking big.
>>30473142
>Admits having 1/4" wide dick
>>30473052
>If you do not count Harpoon or NSM.
LCS has Harpoon?
>>30473302
woah calm down fag.
Just looking for something more..."official".
>>30465872
Because Russians and Chinese can.
>>30473323
Unfortunately that was the burger who claimed to have a 3" dick.
Try remedial English to avoid future embarrassment.
>>30473388
The USS Coronado is expected to fire some at RIMPAC.
>>30473457
Try remedial English to understand basic metaphors.
>>30473397
You can look all you want, the chinese does not release shit.
What we do know is the spy-1 is significantly bigger.
>>30473457
Given you associated yourself with a 7" dick, then accepted the widths, you might want to take your own advice on english lessons.
ladies, ladies, ladies:
allow me to summarize what has transpire so far:
good PESA > poor AESA (unofficial)
100nm > 160km (unofficial)(cutting it close though)
>>30473388
One is attached to the USS Coronado right now
>>30473388
remember, this is vaporware
>>30474716
just in your head
>>30474730
these don't count
>>30461656
alright, literally the f35 is irrelevant
>trump becomes president
>assuming he doesnt flip his party and get us nuked within 3 weeks
>raises defend spending by a few trillion because freedom
>US implements individual role fighters instead of JSF's or MRAs
>A10 gets a face lift, designated something fancy, (a11-a14-a20)
>better trust to weight engines, steath coating, retrofit old a10 airframes to fit a larger 40mm rotary cannon, instead of brrrt is now just a loud ass EEEEEEEEEEEEE
>cut the loses on the f35, airframes are scrapped and used for a fully designated ASF, pulling shit from the f22 and parts of the f35 design, svtol ect.
>instead of bitching about brrrrts /k/ agrees the us military finally has enough freedom and has made good strategic development decissions
>in a perfect world.
My GF might be on one of these if she's "lucky" but since she's a grill she'll probs be permanent shore duty, kek. I had no idea what an LCS was when she was talking about it but after reading through this thread it looks like total shit. The navy blows anyway.
>>30475371
fuck off newfag
>>30475425
okay, bud
