You have to modernize a MiG-21 to make it as effective in 21th century air combat as possible, in order to field it in your new air force. How do you do it and what changes do you make ?
You're a close ally to the US so they might be fine selling you some engines, avionics or weapons.
Bonus points if you also make it effective in ground strike roles.
>>30451928
I'm looking forward to this thread. I've always thought the 21 was a cool looking plane
Just see F-5 modernization programs. Put on a better radar and make it lob AMRAAMs.
>>30451928
A very powerful radar and nuclear air to air missiles.
Missiles can also to be used on ground targets.
>>30451928
Problem with the MIG-21 is there is no real place to put a big modern radar on it.
>>30451957
Same with the F-5. But you can still upgrade to anything and it'll be better than an RP-22.
For ground attack just give it targeting pod capability + lgb/gbus.
>>30451957
I've never heard of electronics warfare packages that attach to pylons.
So a new radar type could not possibly be attached in this manner ?
Being a close ally to the US isn't going to give you new MiG-21 air frames or spare parts in reasonable quantities anytime soon.
>>30451957
Move the inlet backward ?
>>30451965
The older/larger EW systems for stuff like the F-16 used to be installed on the centerline pylon.
I wouldn't recommend putting a radar on the centerline pylon though as it would have a lot of its viewing angle obscured by the aircraft itself. You'd be better off making a closed nose and building side intakes like >>30451976
For a modernised MiG-21 for a second/third world country with close ties to the US the LanceR would be the way to go.
>>30451975
I could be wrong , but I believe that in the hypothetical scenario as posed by OP is that you already have the air frames , so by giving you access to advanced avionics , engines and missiles etc , but you do make a good point about spare parts , as doing business with the US would put you at odds with whomever you would have or could have bought spart parts for the migs from.
>>30451928
>You have to modernize a MiG-21 to make it as effective in 21th century air combat as possible
Mig-21-93. And make it unmanned.
![mig21-93-10[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/q9RGpjk.jpg "mig21-93-10[1].jpg")
"The MiG-21 bison is a pretty neat airplane."
"It is based on the MiG-21 as many of you guys know from the Vietnam (War) era, but upgraded with an F-16 radar built by the Israelis in the nose, active radar missile, and they carry an Israeli jammer on it would practically make them invisible to our legacy radar in the F-15 and F-16."
"MiG-21 had the capability to get into the scissors with you, 110 knots, 60 degrees nose high, go from 10,000 feet to 20,000 feet, very maneuverable airplane, but it didn't have any good weapons. Now it has high off bore sight Archer missile, helmet mounted sight, active missile, and a jammer that gets it into the merge, good radar..."
>>30452000
>jammer on it would practically make them invisible
>very maneuverable airplane
>>30451957
>Problem with the MIG-21 is there is no real place to put a big modern radar on it.
What about making all of in front of the cockpit out of composites and adding many AESA modules. The inlet cone can cover directly in front while the outer parts scan everywhere else.
This is normie humor but it made me chuckle.
https://youtu.be/ctirIlbRpTw
Also, couldn't Mig-21's be the perfect CAS aircraft for nations without a large budget? They're cheap and you can attach rocket pods, as long as MANPADS are out of the question.
>>30451928
>F-5 modernization programs
I put a USB port and fly with a Xbox360 controller.
>>30451989
I see what the Indian Air Force did here, they painted the jet to blend in with the designated shitting fields
>>30452045
But Mig-21's beware, the Persians and their F-14's are on the case
https://youtu.be/pw-YO-Sg37w>>30452052
>>30452045
id buy a shitload of cluster munitions/dispensers from whoever is willing to sell these to compensate for the lack of accuracy and a limited number of pylons
if a deal with russians is not possible due to geopolitical situation, you have to go with israelis (ew suite/countermeasures) and euros or chinese (missiles)
pic kinda related
2 pods of this, a laser designation pod, 2 drop tanks and the gun might be cool for CAS.
>30452114
Forgot the pic
>>30451928
are you talking about modernising existing airframes, or newly built aircraft using the MiG-21 design as a starting point?
Assuming new aircraft, I would play to the MiG-21's strengths, as a fairly cheap, fairly low maintenance aircraft with fairly good speed and climb characteristics I would upgrade the missiles, upgrade the engine and avionics and just have as many of them as I possibly could.
Also I would add folding wings and Zero Length Launch rockets and make them road mobile, so that they could take off anywhere and land on any runway, flat grassy area or stretch of road.
As for the radar space issue, we can separate the radar system and put it on another plane as a set of pods, so one plane is the eyeballs and the other is the shooter
21 is literally the sexiest jet plane ever made
>>30452121
Only using MiG-21 airframes, kinda like South Africa did with their Mirage IIIs.
>>30452138
Looks like an Israeli design
>>30452141
>The work was carried out by Atlas Aviation (formerly Atlas Aircraft Corporation and latelyDenel Aviation), using expertise partly gained by recruiting technicians from Israel's abortedIAI Lavifighter project.
I would put a big engine to make it go faster, and a radar system with a far range. I would also give it a force field and make it 5x bigger and maybe a laser.
Assuming this is a new production run:
Begin with most modernized version
>upgrade avionics to fly-by-wire, replace the dials in the cockpit with more modern electronic screens
>no point in changing the body, but make aerlions, rudders, other moving parts out of composites
>every variant is now a 2-seater
>aerial refueling is now standard
>install radars above each wing, with radomes extending slightly in front. Widen fuselage along wing with a taper in rear. Use space for fuel. Having 2 radars would allow scanning forward/down at the same time and give the ability to track other objects midair better.
Here's what'll make them useful:
>for every 1 production run of the manned version, build 4 unmanned variants. Specialize each of the 4 for:
>a. aerial refueling/forward observation
>b. ground attack
>c. air to air
>d. SEAD/AEWCS
With a a copilot, it would be possible to control a small swarm in air with minimal danger to the people. Since its in the air it wouldn't be jammable since line-of-sight could be maintained.
>>30451928
It already exists. It's the F-7BGI. The JF-17 is also heavily based on the MiG-21.
>>30452000
Bis does not have an Israeli radar.
That guy was selling the F-22 to some veterans by saying negative things about the Indian Su-30SM. He's a shill.
>>30452245
Some of them are equipped with EL/M-2032s.
Probably talking about best-case equipment scenario for the aircraft.
>>30451928
Budget?
Area?
Local politics?
In all honesty, I'd probably not bother. There's cheap as fuck fighters out there today that are relatively modern and come with full avionics suites.
MiG-21s are cool and all but they are way too outdated at this point to be effective other than as rinky-dink toys for tinpot dictators.
If I had a bunch of 21-93's, I'd probably just be happy with them since if I'm using MiG-21s, I'm either too poor to afford decent aircraft and probably on par with my neighbours or I'm India and currently replacing all my old shit with 4.5th gen aircraft anyway.
I mean, sure ex-soviet countries have them but only the poor ass nations tend to keep them around because they can't afford to replace them with anything else.
>>30452258
But if Pakistan can afford 200 JF-17s, I'm sure I could pick up a total replacement fleet when the entire program cost Pakistan $500 million.
Plus block 3 has AESA and can use modern chinky missiles. Thats an INSANE level of tech for any nation to have that would have previously used the MiG-21.
Especially if >>30452233 is right, though I don't know how much is related.
>>30451928
This would be a must:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMIqMaRgOlg
>>30451928
Fill every possible place in it with thermobaric bombs. Install the drone control and use it as a masked missile.
>Akhmed thinks he shot it down when the fake black smoke deploys.
>plane is going straight towards him and his family
>muslim children burn
>so do their parents
>so does their apartment block
>it burns
>here comes another one
See Romanian MiG-21 Lancer upgrade
>new radar
>new comms and ECM
>capable of carrying western targeting pods
>new AA weapon (R-73, Python 3, AIM-9L)
>new AG weapon (Paveway, various jew-made bombs
>upgraded engine and fuel capacity (not by much, but still)
>upgraded nav (GPS and TACAN added)
>F-22 costs about $137 million
>MiG-21 costs about $50000
>Buy ~2700 MiG-21s
>Install modern dogfighting AI
>Alter half of them to fire missiles backwards instead like in fucking Ace Combat
>Send ALL of them on sorties at once
>When dogfighting happens, MiG-21s are seemingly capable of shooting missiles forwards and backwards
>Seemingly suicidal tactics of rear-firing MiG-21s coupled with doggedly aggressive chase MiG-21s hopefully throw off human pilots long enough to get locks
>Sheer quantity makes them an insurmountable force of air superiority
I've done almost no research before posting, how viable is my plan /k/?
>>30452998
>what is maintenance
>>30453015
Could the $137 million for a second F-22 could cover maintenance costs for a bit?
>>30452998
Good luck transporting 2700 MiG-21s anywhere
>>30451928
Basically everything has already being done with Mig-21 to keep it relevant.
>(comparatively) better radar
>double delta wing configuration
>ability to shoot bvr missile
In the end of the day, you might as well as getting newer airplane.
Get rid of the nose intake and install cheek or chin intake (it doesnt need to go mach2) use space for bigger radar. Install cft and a spine for ew equipment. Centerline belly gets a targeting pod. Upgrade cockpit to mfd's or even use two seat version for less stress on the pilot with a wso in the back. Give it the ablility to fire amraams and aim9's, or carry pgms when the pod is mounted.
Thats stretching it quite a bit. But if i had the budget and some arms treaty that said i could only use mig21's. That's what i would do.
>>30451928
Option 1:
Establish a re manufacturing line. Each frame is stripped to the bones.
Since the F-35 project is in full swing...why the fuck not?
R-25 engine
Length: 4,615 mm (181.7 in)
Diameter: 1,191 mm (46.9 in)
F-135-100 engine
Length: 220 in (559 cm)
Diameter: 46 in (117 cm) max., 43 in (109 cm) at the fan inlet
Its basically going to be a stripped down F-35 crammed into the airframe of a mig-21.
I wont worry about fancy flying, and it will just be a bomb/ missile truck.
Option 2:
Use a lot modern technology to create workarounds that ignore existing legacy systems, and give you essentially two parallel systems working off the same power bus.
replace avionics where possible. likely radar, IFF, etc.
I would just use boneyard F-18s for that task, their frames are mostly shot, but the components are still viable. F-16s have a future as drones/ targets, and F-15s are actually still pretty cherry compared to the other boneyard residents.
2A: Replace engine with surplus engines from the F-16 fleet, as they are starting phase out, drones dont have that long of a life, so there will be spare engines, as there are already spare engines. Re-enging an aircraft is not easy, or cheap, so this is a down the road sort of task. There are lots of shitty spare Russian engines laying around, and even more shitty knock off engines made by china and india.
Option 3
Pods/ Conformals. Pod that shit up. Its the year 2016, we dont need a fuck ton of bombs or missiles, just a few really good ones. All targeting and pylon requirements would be put into pods that would interface with existing pylons, maybe even carry some extra fuel. We run one data cable to the cockpit for the independent weapons system and call it a night. Its not glamorous, but its cheaper and simpler than all the other bullshit. All power for this system is generated by a little propeller style generator on the pod/ bomb racks.
When the wings fall , we just move the pods onto the next jet.
>>30453596
I think you could save a lot of weight by removing and replacing all of the really old avionics, wiring, everything in the cockpit (analog instruments and switches) with modern electronic stuff. That's to me one of the most important changes, like putting a new engine, radar or integrating PGM and BVRAAMs.
Also I'm not an aerodynamic expert but the MiG-21 lacks the obvious features of area ruling design, so you could maybe add some CFT or EW pods and not make it that much draggier (or best case scenario even less draggier)
