AR or CC
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Concealed carry or an AR 15?
I had my concealed carry a few months back, ended up needing to sell it (AKA, wife was constantly on my shit about how I spent 500$ on a gun when our baby was just born) and now I just sold my motorcycle and plan on getting another one. My biggest debate here is between just getting a concealed carry handgun (most likely another XDS) or just getting an AR15. I want something for protection, but want something I'll enjoy shooting at the range. I'm in PA if that makes any difference. Pic related, DELTON SPORT AR 15 5.56 RIFLE for 600. Give me some input /k/
>>30408110
Don't buy a delton
The word is they're shit, at $600 you could at least buy a ruger or s&w if you can't find a decent milspec
>>30408125
Alright buddy. You think I should go with a rifle over a CC?
>>30408110
Get the ccw. More likely to use that than an ar that's at home.
>>30408110
If you're debating del ton or carry, go for the carry. Dpms makes a better ar than del ton, and you'll likely use the carry more. Take a look at the sig p320 as well for a new carry. Costs less than the xds, works for multiple calibers and sizes and is pretty damn fun for range and cc. Also save up more for an ar at a later point in time.
>>30408152
I guess that comes down to personal preference
You can definitely use an AR as a home defense platform, yet it's obviously too big to cc.
My suggestion would be buy a shield or bodyguard off armslist for $300-$350 if you really need a cc gun.
if you don't live in a shit hole with a high crime rate get the AR15 it will be more fun to shoot.
Just make sure it's not gonna piss your woman off again, if she's not happy - you won't be either. (Don't buy a gun you can't afford)
>>30408166
True
>>30408175
I'll have to look into that, my XDs was a 9mm, probably going to look for a 45 this time. I do eventually want an AR, I'm just trying to cope with having to sell my motorcycle and want the most fun as possible hahah. Kids man, sure are a blessing..
>>30408195
I don't live in a shit hole honestly, crime rate is pretty low. I just don't want the price of ARs to go through the roof while everyone is trying to "ban" them or make them harder to buy. Yeah, keeping her happy has become a priority. First time I bought my CC she was all for it but then a week later she started using it against me because of "how much it cost". But I'm not trying to buy a used shitty handgun that might have issues down the road. Trying to find a balance to keep both of us happy
On one hand, if crime isn't an issue where you live, I imagine you'll find carbines are more interesting to shoot than pistols.
On the other, if your Mrs. wasn't happy about a concealed $500 pistol she never saw, she's really not going to be happy about a $600 black rifle.
My advice is get the used pistol. Get her into shooting it. Then save up for the AR later.
>>30408229
For a 45 you can definitely find lower cost than the p320, which is usually 9mm standard. I'd just look around for a small 1911 of you want a 45 for less than an xds or something equivalent. I understand that feel, not a dad but a collegefag saving for his next purchase. Congrats on fatherhood though
>>30408110
Get a Makarov.
+Simple
+Easy to clean
+JHP exist for it too
+Shit won't jam
+You can just hit someone with it
+Cheap
-It's heavy for what it is
-Dick Grips
Or just get a Shield. OR slowly build AR in garage over time adding little by little and she won't notice.
Your wife is bitching about how much shit costs, 5.56/.223 cost more than 9mm.
>>30408229
I got a lnib bodyguard for $300 off armslist - still had the empty chamber indicator in it- probably only had 1 box of self defense ammo through it, it came with a box of SD ammo, a holster, the stick on grips & I love it. It goes everywhere with me - even if I'm in Shorts & a T-shirt.
I also just bought a h&r revolver for $130 yesterday, works perfectly (fortunately I already reload for 32long)
The deals are out there if you are patient & know what you're looking for.
You can always ask to meet at a range to test fire a gun if you're worried it may be a problem.
Good luck
>>30408251
Good idea man.
>>30408259
My biggest issue with the shield is how small it is. I'm 6'4 and have decent sized hands. If it doesn't feel comfortable in my hand, I'm not going to want to shoot it more than I really have to. That was one of my favorite things about my 9mm XDs. Isn't it better to get a 45 over 9mm for cc and range? Thanks man!
>>30408275
Pistol whip CC ;)
>>30408293
Would you recommend a revolver for carry over something like a Glock or XDS?
>>30408110
Get rid of your wife
>>30408304
P320 fag here. Personally I prefer 9mm for capacity and +p loads make up for it. Granted I already had a 9mm carbine so I was already buying 9mm. .45 has stopping power, but takes up more space, while 9mm allows for higher capacity and hot loads can give better performance. It's personal preference really.
Pic related is my cc. A p320 carry model in 9mm. Full size capacity with a compact slide. Also 6'4, so hand size should be similar. Carry in the 5 o clock position in an mtac holster. Currently loaded with sig hollow points. It's an awesome range toy and a solid cc, but if you like tight clothes and Shit of that nature, go a size smaller.
>>30408304
45ACP is more expensive to train with.
Terminal ballistics are pretty much the same as 9x19 and 40SW.
It's slightly better at keeping itself together when penetrating harder targets.
>>30408340
>>30408304
Here's an underside pic too so you can actually see the grip.
>>30408340
How about you carry some real defense ammo like 124gr. Speer Golddot +P?
>>30408340
You need to get some Federal HST 147gr +P, It's currently the best 9mm load available. Performance is nearly identical to .45.
>>30408340
Interesting. I'll have to look into that P320 then. I didn't have any issues with 9mm, I was just told its "better" to have a 45 for self defense. But I was running SD rounds in my 9mm anyway. My biggest thing is wanting a concealed carry without NEEDING the pinky extension on the bottom of the clip. I really liked how my xds fit my hand so I'm going to try and stick with something around that size.
Thanks for both pics
>>30408344
So 9mm I won't have to "worry" price wise about spending a day at the range and slinging roungs for a few hours?
>>30408340
>>30408390
>>30408391
With modern JHPs like the 147 grain Federal HST, there's literally no reason whatsoever to use +P ammo.
The only reason +P is even a thing is because of old hollowpoint designs that required high velocity in order to expand properly. This is no longer an issue with modern JHPs such as the HST round.
>>30408393
>I was just told its "better" to have a 45 for self defense
No this is now just a myth. Modern 9mm ammo like>>30408391 has identical performance with less recoil and you get higher mag capacity
>>30408393
>clip
Abandon thread boys!
>>30408399
>he doesn't like his bullets going fast
>>30408390
>>30408391
I carry federal fmj when outside of my apartment. Apartment walls are thin as fuck and I'd rather not kill one of my Asian neighbor seven fucking kids (I doubt they'd notice) because some shit broke in the place, so hollow points when home.
>>30408393
No problem man. I wear the Xl size gloves and my hand fits this perfectly. That was my grip too, cuz I'd like to have a smaller cc, but I know I wouldn't be able to grip it near anywhere near as well as I can with the carry. 9mm can be purchased bulk for around 18-24 cents a round, and as mentioned about, modern loads are more than enough for self defense, training and messing around on the range. 45 for sd is a bit of a myth as it doesn't really matter. I figure if it takes more than 17 shots to bring somebody down, I was fucked to begin with.
>>30408434
>I carry federal fmj when outside of my apartment. Apartment walls are thin as fuck and I'd rather not kill one of my Asian neighbor seven fucking kids (I doubt they'd notice) because some shit broke in the place, so hollow points when home.
>>30408434
>I carry federal fmj when outside of my apartment.
FMJ is fucking terrible. You need to carry hollow points 24/7
>>30408110
1. Smack your wife in the face and remind her of her place in the world.
2. Regret the life decisions that brought you to have to choose between motorcycles, guns and a soft, fleshy infant.
3. Smack your wife across the back of the head, she's trying to get up off the ground.
4. Get a handgun. Utility trumps fun and cool factor. In the extremely small chance you will ever have to use a gun to defend life or property, it is almost always to be a situation befitting a sidearm or concealed carry weapon.
Or don't, and think back to this post as your wife and baby are getting Jamal'd after you have been carjacked at gun point and you remember you couldn't hide an ar15 on your person for concealed carry.
>>30408446
Bit of both honestly. Recommend something better?
>>30408459
Spare Mag in my car is full of hollow points. I like options so I alternate fmj and hp time to time.
>>30408304
It really depends on your situation
A ruger lcr or s&w airweight are both awesome carry guns imo.
They both can be had for around $400 new, slightly less used.
I carried a sp101 for 2 years. While my wifes lcr sat in a safe in her bedroom.
Some revolvers can also be fired from a pocket reliably (shrouded hammer models)
The bodyguard is just soo much more comfortable & I can even carry it in my underwear (no belt necessary).
I also have a 1911, cz75, and a Glock 21
Which are all fine carry guns also, but as active as I am and because I don't live in a high crime rate area - I still feel adequately protected. I can always gun up if I'm going somewhere sketchy
Really just depends on what's right for you
>>30408474
Don't ever carry FMJ that's just retarded. Federal HST 147gr is what you should be using
>>30408474
Why would someone ever choose FMJ for self-defense, inside or outside of the home?
Not the guy you responded to, but there is literally not a single good reason for someone to not be carrying HP rounds in their sidearm in this day and age.
If you are using a 9mm and carrying FMJ outside of the house, punch yourself in the balls and correct your retarded behavior moving forward. Good HP ammo is the only thing that makes 9mm worth carrying.
>>30408275
>Dick grips a con
C'mon man, that's the best feature. Makes handling it almost second nature.
>>30408407
Sorry buddy, scrolling armslist at th same time so I wasn't paying attention to technical aspects on this thread :)
>>30408434
Thanks for all the advice man
>>30408477
Alright, I'll have to take a deeper look into them then
>>30408483
Can't seem to find any in stock or I would. It's why I have the sig HP s in two of my three mags.
>>30408489
So unload my fmj Mag. Got it.
>>30408489
Pretty sure fmj will do a better job if having to shoot through concealment
Although that would be an unlikely self defense scenario
>>30408523
No problem. Finding the right gun is a bitch sometimes and it's nice having some additional input every now and then
>>30408391
>147 hst
>he fell for the hollow point meme
I carry Buffalo Bore 9MM +P Outdoorsman
147gr. Hard Cast
It's a flat nose bullet, so it's wound channel is created through a "crushing action", making it far superior to FMJ, which tends to leave "self closing" wounds.
it doesn't bleed off energy by expanding so it always goes deep enough to hit what it needs to hit, and it's flat nose means it stays on path when it hits bone by smashing through it, instead of being deflected or start to tumble like most JHP. I like it, because when I drop 2 rounds in the T-Zone, I know it's going to punch through the breastplate, go straight through the heart/aorta/spine and exit, giving me a good wound channel all the way through that'll let off blood pressure from both ends.
>huuurrr dduuurrr overpenettartattiaoirnta
just fuck right off with that shit. overpen is a myth. know your target and what's behind it, or don't shoot.
>>30408529
>Can't seem to find any in stock or I would. It's why I have the sig HP s in two of my three mags.
http://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/products/9mm-147gr-federal-premium-tactical-hst-jhp-50rds-p9hst2
ammoseek.com
>>30408538
>Pretty sure fmj will do a better job if having to shoot through concealment
No, use good hollow points and this isn't an issue.
>>30408560
No you fucking nigger, you fell for the hard cast +P meme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VfWkWMzOI
>>30408571
no you double nigger, you fell for "the poor testing medium by non-ballistics experts in a controlled testing environment" meme.
ballistics gel is a single density medium that FAILS to duplicate the various pressures (both vacuum and hydraulic) present in the thoracic cavity, not to mention varying material density, tissue elasticity, and many other factors. Gel only shows what a bullet can do while in Gel, and in no way reflects real world effects.
What you need is testing on pigs, preferably live, as they closely approximate humans in all of the above factors. also, there is apparently a fuckload about bullets you need to learn.
>>30408603
If hard cast is so fucking good then why did the FBI go with HST?
>>30408615
It's easier to clean up after
>>30408523
I'm 6'2"
258lb
I know it's small in my hands, but it's quite comfortable to shoot imo.
A cc gun that is too big and awkward will end up not getting carried, then it won't do you any good - even if it can hold 20 rounds of 9mm
This is based on my experience of carrying for 3 years. (I work in health care - so I can't get away with a Glock 20 - cause I have to move patients and bend and lift all day). If anyone saw my gun, I could lose my job.
Fucking "gun free" safety zones. Might as well put up a sign saying mass murdering is easier here.
>>30408710
Pic related
>>30408615
>FBI
you think the fucking FBI is the source for best bullet? hey dumbass, the FBI is the whole reason we have 40 sw, and the reason ballistics gel is commonly thought to be "good".
the FBI knows how to match bullets with guns, and that's about it. they're one of the worst organizations for arms info and the point you're trying to make is childish and stupid.
>>30408710
>>30408715
Is that the shield? I'm 6'4, 240. Im a barber and tattoo apprentice though so I don't need to worry about work giving me shit for carrying
>>30408874
That's a bodyguard
The shield is slightly larger all around iirc
- but not by much
>>30408229
If you're having trouble affording a gun, don't get a .45
If you have a carry, get an AR. One of each first then diff varieties of each. One other consideration is securing the AR from your child.
>>30408304
The. Get the 9c. Its basically a double stack shield
>>30408125
I have a DTI sport, they're fine and widely regarded as one of the better budget AR brands. I don't know where you "heard" they were shit.
>>30408125
>shit
They're barrels are 1-9 and you might want to take your BCG to make sure they properly staked the gas key. They're fine.
In fact, a local PD at home uses Del-Ton for their duty rifles after a high round-count torture test where they performed well enough.
Go with the handgun as it will be useful outside the house. You can get a lockbox to keep it in too to keep it from the infant
Is a good condition p250 for $330 a good deal?
>>30408992
don't get a p250
Browning 1911 R1
Glock G17
S&W M&P 9c Compact
Walther Government 1911
All new. Better to buy used? What would you guys choose?
>>30408110
Anything but DelTon. Absolute junk. Build a PSA one piece at a time.
>>30409177
What would a decent build end up running me?
>>30408560
>>30408790
>hard cast for self defence
whew lad
h
e
w
l
a
d
>>30409117
>S&W M&P 9c Compact
this
>>30409036
what's wrong with the p250?
>>30409430
Or a glock 43 9mm used for 460. The other ones are new and run closer to 600 as far as the m&p
What is it with people buying and selling guns like this? If you're not financially stable, don't buy a fucking gun. Work hard and get to a place where you can afford the gun before you make stupid decisions.
>>30408992
It's not a bad deal depending on the condition of the barrel and how well it functions.
>>30408110
CCW, for sure.
>>30409525
shitty trigger. Get the 320 instead. It's the 250 without the suck.
>>30408110
Buy an AR lower and build it as time goes on. You only have to register the lower piece, so having that would prevent you from missing out on an AR after the fact and you can usually get one for fairly cheap. That way you can have a CC and at least start building an AR plus it will be what you actually want. Word of advice, when you're building it build it in a big plastic tub so when you inevitably lose pieces you don't have to look too hard for them.
>>30409748
>>30409739
Thoughts on glock43?
>>30408434
>I carry federal fmj when outside of my apartment. Apartment walls are thin as fuck and I'd rather not kill one of my Asian neighbor seven fucking kids (I doubt they'd notice) because some shit broke in the place, so hollow points when home.
Holy shit this is the most retarded post I've seen all week.
Fucking look up ballistic effects instead of just following fuddlore. HP pistol rounds plug up in walls and act as FMJ--they have more penetration through walls than an AR even. (Wall penetration in a nutshell: typical FMJ rifle > Buckshot = pistol > AR > birdshot).
Use HP all the time dipshit. Use GOOD HPs, like the recommended 147gr Federal HSTs.
>>30408603
>ballistics gel is a single density medium that FAILS to duplicate the various pressures (both vacuum and hydraulic) present in the thoracic cavity, not to mention varying material density, tissue elasticity, and many other factors. Gel only shows what a bullet can do while in Gel, and in no way reflects real world effects.
Looks like someone doesn't know the math involved behind ballistics gel.
>testing on live pigs
Oh, you're just a retard.
>>30409756
It's a good gun. Better though would be the Shield or XD-S since you sound cheap/poorfag enough to not buy a proper holster unless the gun itself was inexpensive, and the 43 is the most expensive single-stack out there.
>>30409748
This is good advice, a stripped lower is like $40-60.
>>30409821
Thoughts on Walther CCP?
>>30410134
Nice handgun, if I remember properly though, it's neutered by the fact it can't use p99 mags at all. Has the same reliable trigger though.
>>30410244
OP here. Just bought a Walther CCP. Fit my hand perfectly, easy to conceal, felt great in my hand. Thanks for the help everyone.
