>tfw Operation Barbarossa, the biggest invasion in history, began 75 years ago today
How the mighty have fallen
>>30367405
b-b-but mein Fuhrer, didn't you say we would not fight another two-front war? Can we please finish off England first, pretty please?
>>30367555
never tell me the odds
>>30367555
>>30367656
>TFW you catch yourself wishing that Hitler wasn't such a hopeless psychotic optimist who botched the second half of WWII believing he could roll trips every time
>because if he hadn't thought that way, the first half of WWII would never have happened
>>30367881
Trips says Hitler won and we're in the wrong universe.
>>30367405
Protip: Winter is cold
Why they chose the name though?
>>30367904
The cold wasn't really an issue.
>>30367912
Barbarossa was a Holy Roman emperor that went on a crusade against Islam, Hitler believed his war was a crusade against Bolshevism.
>>30367922
Immobilization because of the weather and snowfall made it hard to supply an offensive, meaning that the German army was essentially sitting still in the winter while the Russians had time to build up their forces. The lack of offensives is best seen in the fact that less Germans died in the winter months than in the summer months.
The cold makes battles like Stalingrad harder and it sure would suck to be stuck in the cold with litte supplies and being encircled, but the cold itself is not a game changer.
>>30367927
Huh, the guy was preserved in vinegar after death for road home and essentially a pickle.
>>30367555
Soviet Union was entertaining the idea of pushing west. Hitler caught himself in a shitty situation as he pissed off and was at war with the two military powers in Europe that could have helped him fight the Russians and he now had to prepare for Stalin potentially making moves on soviet terms. Everyone would have turned on Russia at some point if Hitler didn't push his agenda first.
>>30367957
so the cold just caused logistic problems.. So saying the cold "wasn't reallt\y an issue" is dead wrong.
>>30367405
>invade the largest front in history with limited war time production, shitty allies, strained logistics, inferior tanks, a whole other front, against a numerically superior enemy with massive materiel aid from your other enemies.
>almost win
>>30367881
https://youtu.be/uUyDcGSMPEQ?t=55
We'll never know what could have been ;_;
>>30367914
>The cold wasn't really an issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClR9tcpKZec
>Indeed, we have seen it recently here in this war, naturally all of our weapons are styled (‘zugeschnitten’) for the west. And we all had the conviction…that was until now (mumbling)…it was just our opinion, since the oldest times…one cannot wage war in wintertime. And we have…the German tanks…the German tanks have not been put to the test to perhaps prepare them for winter-war, but test-runs were made to prove that one cannot wage war in winter.
>>30367555
"Look I wish we could just finish off England too, but the fact of the matter is we have reason to believe the Soviets are going to make a move themselves soon. Don't worry though. We have only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down."
>>30367405
HAHA
>>30368011
Maybe I'm just a sperg, but your original posts with the image made it seem you implied the cold caused the Germans to freeze to death en masse like a lot of popular "history" tries to imply. It's really the consequences of cold rather than the cold itself.
>>30367957
It's not like Russia in summer is particularly great for invasions either
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasputitsa
>>30368045
Yeah, Hitler is talking about the strategical effects of the winter and its intraversible nature rather than the cold
>>30368020
If you mean getting close to moscow then yeah.
But almost is not enough.
>>30368062
Rasputitsa ends in May, giving you a 4 to 5 month gap.
>>30368059
not my pic, just commented your claim.
>>30367405
>How the mighty have fallen
>>30368078
Given how stacked the teams were it's impressive that Germany was able to even make it to Moscow.
>>30368026
Probably something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnE7gckfr58
>>30368126
Someone asked in yesterday's Barbarossa thread where these were from but it 404'd before I could reply.
It's from 'Mein Krieg';
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGbu16FU2j8
>>30368142
>>30367555
>finish off England
>implying
The Germans always seem to have had a vastly inflated opinion of what they are capable of, given their track record.
>>30368119
Sometimes being the first one to strike gives you a advantage. Soviet army in the middle of reorganisation. Stalin somehow not taking the idea that hitler strikes first seriously is also a good thing.
But lack of manpower, resources etc made them fail with alot of other things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I98P1AxQRUM
>>30368173
Has that guy just been there for a while or did he get flattened by a tank? fucking hell
>>30368150
where is this from
>>30368193
Both. Happened quite often. See >>30368142 for German opinion on enemy dead.
Four or five of the American victims of the Malmedy massacre were found crushed as well.
>>30368201
Same doc as >>30368142
>>30368193
Probably died in the middle of the road and no one was bothered to move the body as tanks and trucks rolled over him
Wehrmacht, the gallant warriors and great gentlemen.
>>30368326
and here are the vatniks, was only a matter of minutes
>>30368062
It's also easy to forget the Eastern Front was largely dependent on horses. No Red Ball Express for Ivan.
>>30368326
Source?
>>30368373
>>30368059
In 1941 they lost 113 thousand men to frostbite alone. Not to mention automatic guns and engines would not work as oil and grease were frozen.
>>30367405
Soviet Union's war machine would have completely swallowed Europe in 1942 if it wasn't for Operation Barbarossa. We can only thank Germany for their sacrifice.
>>30368326
>When you have an army hundreds of thousands strong some of them are subhumans
Do we need to bring out some liberator stories about Ivan and the lads on tour in Germany?
>>30367555
With what landing craft and force? Captured river boats modified to carry troops, no real navy and no air superiority?
Operation Sea Lion was going to be a shitshow if not downright impossible even with the requisite air superiority over Southern England.
Germany was so utterly doomed the second it invaded Russia. The Soviets had already prepared to move to Samara should Moscow fall, and the Germans simply could not manage the strategic depth with their genocidal policies that alienated the local populous.
Also reminder that despite the myths, the Germans never inflicted a 2:1 kill ratio on the Red Army. The differences in deaths was from the Germans just murdering lots of civilians and prisoners.
Nazism died 75 years ago today.
>Britain not beaten
>Invade USSR
>Retreating at the gates of Moscow
>Declare war on the US
Why were Nazi's so stupid, /k/?
>>30368493
Germany kind of got roped into it when Japan chimped out at Pearl Harbor, they had a defence pact.
>>30368480
>Also reminder that despite the myths, the Germans never inflicted a 2:1 kill ratio on the Red Army.
The Germans did inflict quite a few deaths in battle though if almost 9 million soviet soldiers died. 6 million or so soviet soldiers died in battle or went missing/unaccounted for. Germany lost about 4 million in action or unaccounted for. Maybe not 2:1 but the German army was certainly close to 1.5
>>30368480
>German prisoners died in captivity: 374k
>Soviet prisoners died in captivity: 3600k
And now the question lads: which side has signed the Geneva convention prior to the war?
>>30368493
Hitler was a good orator, not a good military commander or strategic thinker.
For a better idea just how unprepared they were (from 'Soviet Order of Battle - Deadly Beginnings').
>In addition to chronic equipment shortages brought on by the rapid expansion, none of the new divisions ever had a chance to complete any unit training, and many did not even get any basic crew training done on what equipment they did have. A report on the status of the tank units in the frontier districts (Baltic, Western, Kiev, Odessa) dated 17 June - just 5 days before war fell on them - was an unrelieved list of shortcomings:
>1) "training is intermittant and uncoordinated"
>2) "gunnery instruction is running two or three months behind schedule"
>3) "coordination between...troops within units is bad."
>4) "the mechanized (motorized rifle) regiments...have no conception of their proper role"
>5) "wireless operators are inadequately trained."
>and so on for 17 items...
>Tank drivers in the units in the Baltic Special Military District averaged just 1-1/2 hours' driving time: just enough experience to get them to the battlefield and killed. As you will see in the section on individual tank divisions, many units were missing 50% or more of their non-commissioned officers and junior officers at the beginning of the war. This meant that even when the unit had all of its personnel, there was no one with enough experience and expertese to train them. Finally, even if the trainers and trainees had been on hand with enough time, there simply wasn't enough equipment to train them on.
>>30368526
A sudden and perfidious nature of the attack
Millions of POWs captured within first months and killed over the course of the war
"Dilligent" German account of losses that ignores the fate of wounded Wehrmacht soldiers sent back to Reich and considers executed Soviet civilians as enemy's combat casualties.
And yes, German numbers against the western allies were also bullshit, claiming consistently more total kills than the allies lost even if we include tanks that were only damaged and quickly returned to service into the actual allied loss numbers.
>>30368532
Germans didn't really care about the Geneva convention since the USSR didn't sign it either, western PoWs were treated a lot better.
>>30368480
A lot of the German losses were towards the end of the war when they were on the retreat, the K:D ration up to 1943 must have been a lot better, altho it wouldn't really have mattered anyway.
>>30368684
19th Tank Division
>On 22 June 1941 the division was nearly at full strength for personnel, with 9347 men present for duty. However, it was short almost 50% of the NCOs authorized, and over 33% of the offiicers and technicians. The two tank regiments had a total of 34 BT tanks, 122 T-26s, and 7 OT-26s. The howitzer regiment had all of its authorized guns, but the division had only 20% of its trucks and a little over half the tractors required. This meant that in the initial marches, most of the division was on foot and could not keep up with the tanks, and when tanks broke down there was no way to recover them. The division went into battle on 24 June, and by 26 June 1941 had only 4 working tanks left, and had lost half the howitzers in the division. Later disbanded.
20th Tank Division
>The 20th Tank Division never received any modern tanks, nor in fact many tanks of any kind. On 22 June 1941, the division had only 30 BT-5, 3 T-36, and 8 OT-26 tanks on hand, and while there were 8997 total personnel assigned to the division, 20th Tank Division was short almost 75% of its required NCOs and 50% of the officers and technicians. In addition, although the howitzer and rifle regiments had all their authorized guns and heavy weapons, the division had only 244 trucks of all types and 38 tractors, so the bulk of the division's men and equipment could not be moved except on foot. 20th Tank Division fought under 9th Mechanized Corps across the Ukraine until early September, when both were destroyed in the Kiev encirclement. By then the division was little more than a rifle brigade; in one of its last official strength returns, on 25 August the 'division' reported a total of 2400 men, 12 guns, 6 mortars, and 0 tanks on hand.
>>30368493
USSR got humiliated pretty hard, sure the Germans were worse, but it's not some great victory Russians make it out to be.
>>30368742
25th Tank Division
>This division, along with the rest of 13th Mechanized Corps, was "completely understrength" on 22 June 1941, according to the Western Front's deputy commander. 25th Tank Division was the best-equipped unit in 13th mech, but it only had 247 T-26 tanks, most in dire need of major repairs. The reconnaissance battalion was missing trucks and motorcycles, and anti-aircraft battalion had no equipment or weapons. While the howitzer regiment was fully equipped with guns, it had almost no trucks or tractors to pull them, and the gun crews were all away in training camps when the Germans attacked! The division was directly in front of 2nd Panzer Group's advance south of Minsk, and was officially disbanded on 4 July 1941 - one of the first divisions stricken from the Red Army order of battle, in the war.
26th Tank Division
>The 26th Tank Division had barely started organizing when the war started. Formed without a base of equipment or personnel from a tank brigade or cavalry division, this 'tank' division had no tanks, no armored cars, no heavy howitzers, no antiaircraft guns, few trucks, and virtually no unit training. Effectively, it was a rifle regiment with a battalion of howitzers attached. By l July the Soviet high command was officially listing the division as "without equipment", acknowledging that it was no longer had a combat value. The division strength report of 7 July showed just 3800 men and 5 guns in the 'division'. it was destroyed in the Minsk pocket and officially disbanded in mid-July 1941.
>all this misinformation
What could Britain do in 1941? Nobody ever asks this question. Britain had basically little strategic impact on the decision to invade Russia. In June 1941, the UK was a non-factor. Sorry, my Brit anons.
Furthermore, the Germans - including quite a few regular Wehrmacht units - committed tons of atrocities in the USSR. The only reason people suggest otherwise is because of historical revisionism that portrays the Wehrmacht as independent of the NSDAP.
There's so much meme history in a single thread I just can't take it.
>>30368026
I need more 3rd Reich hype vids stat
>>30368532
Nice source.
This is also possibly my favorite meme, that all the deaths instead were because of Evil Nazis killing POWs.
>>30368493
>Britain not beaten
To be fair, Britain did jack and shit. Africa was, at best, a sideshow and of never any major import to the war.
>>30368760
29th Tank Division
>The 29th Tank Division was the best division in llth Mechanized Corps, but on 22 June 1941 it had only 3 KVs, 24 T-34s, and 160 light T-26 tanks, including 19 OT-26 flamethrower tanks. The divisional artillery had no 152mm howitzers, the antiaircraft battalion had no guns at all, and there were "almost no tractors for (any of) the artillery". 15% of the tanks on hand were in the repair shops when the war started.
>Located at Grodno, near the border, 29th Tank Division went into battle on the afternoon of the first day of the war. The division speedily shot up and subsequently destroyed in the Bialystok and Minsk pockets. It was removed from the Soviet order of battle in the first week in July.
30th Tank Division
>The 30th Tank Division, like many units formed from an existing Tank Brigade, was very short of trucks and tractors for the rifle regiment or the artillery, even though both those units had all their authorized weapons. The division had just 243 T-26 tanks on 22 June, and only 120 of those managed to make it out of the motor pool on the first day of the war. 30% of those broke down on the first move, and by 23 June the division had only about 40 working tanks left. With most of the rest of the division already on foot for lack of motorization, the entire division was overrun and destroyed in the Minsk pocket and officially disbanded in early July.
If anyone wants the pdf: https://mega.nz/#!1Yw0gRxY!IwZQK-yXjvxrXFKD1lO6iWSNnjisLn7uryCjwmhmcMw
>>30368771
>>30368020
>inferior tanks
kek
>>30368020
>>30368819
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLKiAasovtE
>>30368181
Sweet picture, here's another.
>>30368785
>herp dee derp
>Britain dun nuffin all war long!
For starters, good luck landing at Normandy after sailing across the Atlantic.
>>30368854
What?
>>30368769
>What could Britain do in 1941?
Support French resistance
Bind troops, especially the Air Force
Threatening Italy from the Mediterranean
Preventing trade across the Atlantic so that Germany relies solely on Romania for oil
Also it was obvious that they would step up their bombing with the support from the US
>>30368181
bump for flag on tank
>>30368876
What are you what-ing at?
>>30368854
>couldn't even stop weserbung despite having complete naval superiority and the luftwaffe couldn't do shit on the western portion of norway
>dick around and do nothing in the Med all war long
>beg burgers for destroyers because you can't build any yourself
>have to beg the commonwealth to actually fight for you just to make landing in a desert in africa
>proceed to circlejerk with monty for months on end accomplishing nothing
>meanwhile just letting the atlantic wall go up with no resistance at all
>get completely keked out of the far east from the very start to the point where brave Aussies are the second major allied naval power in the pacific after burgerclaps
>b-b-b-but we did errything!
British War Goals:
-Preserve Poland
-Keep the Empire
-Secure foreign bases and colonies
-Not be ignored by both Stalin and Roosevelt at Yalta
-Not be relegated to winning a participatory medal at the end of the war
Failed in all accounts.
>>30368918
>b-b-b-but we did errything
I don't remember claiming that, merely that 'Britain did jack and shit' is demonstrably not true, nothing you posted refutes that.
No need to sperg out about it friend.
>>30368964
>have total naval superiority wherever you want
>don't even consider taking any offensive actions until 1942
>do so in Africa of all places, a strategically insignificant place
Yeah, they did do jack and shit.
>>30368834
>>30368895
Colors really bring life to the past. No longer being a distant black and white history it is suddenly brought to life with colors that you see right now at this moment.
>>30368918
>beg burgers for destroyers because you can't build any yourself
Correction, they couldn't build enough fast enough.
>have to beg the commonwealth to actually fight for you just to make landing in a desert in africa
No begging involved, no need for that. Additionally Commonwealth forces were only involved in the naval side of things during Operation Torch.
>proceed to circlejerk with monty for months on end accomplishing nothing
What do you mean?
>meanwhile just letting the atlantic wall go up with no resistance at all
It wasn't a wall, it wasn't even complete by the time of D-day. Not to mention how do you expect them to stop it being built?
>get completely keked out of the far east from the very start to the point where brave Aussies are the second major allied naval power in the pacific
Strangely enough the British were occupied with some other things in Europe at the time, no idea why of course.
>>30368121
>no hippies
>no liberals
>no leftists
Eh you can't have everything why can't we have a government that isn't a liberal gun grabbing fuck fest, and at the same time doesn't go full hitler killing every body who isn't agreeing with them. Just put your people first before any foreigners don't let other countries tell you what you can and can't do, let your citizens own guns, have a good army and don't be a welfare state, give criminals honest sentences not waterd down becasue they're minority or of some belief, don't censor the press, support nationalism and so on. It's like utopia that we will never achieve.
>>30367555
No you Dummkopf!
Der Ivan is preparing for an invasion we have to hit them first before they can attack us
>>30368830
>german tanks were worse than russian tanks
sure thing, your detailed argument really has shown me how it was
>>30368070
> The cold prevents machines to work
> Not cold related
>>30368020
>almost win
It's like a participation award. Germany wasn't even the last loser. Just all around mediocre.
>>30369112
Try reading a book instead of /pol/ idiot
>>30368493
I know you're just a fucking shill but I kek'ed whole heartedly
>>30369068
>Not to mention how do you expect them to stop it being built?
Yeah, what could possibly be done against fortifications on a coastline well within safe striking distance of any ship when you have uncontested naval supremacy and your enemy has shown to have anemic at best naval strike capabilities and you only have a few aircraft carriers.
>no idea why of course.
It had nothing to do with conducting any offensive operations, that's for fucking sure as the Far East fleet was made into a joke in mid 1941.
>>30369133
nice source
>>30369026
>Africa
>strategically insignificant
>offensive actions started in 1942
What?
>>30369026
I can't really be bothered arguing with you since you clearly have a bias on this topic.
>no offensive actions until 1942 in Africa of all places, a strategically insignificant place
The Americans joined us, it wasn't just the British. Attacking Italy wouldn't have been possible without taking Africa first, it also kept the Germans away from important British possessions in the Middle East and the Suez canal. Hardly 'insignificant'.
>have total naval superiority wherever you want
The lack of German naval action at the time goes to show that the British Navy was hardly doing 'jack and shit'.
>don't even consider taking any offensive actions until 1942
That is patently untrue.
>>30369160
And what is pootling about in a small area of the water like the Channel with some of your primary assets well within range of land based guns that will have an easy time hitting you as you sit completely still to ensure that you can accurately hit land fortifications?
Strangely enough its easier to replace concrete bunkers than a battleship.
Furthermore, whats the point? The British hadn't come up with plans for D-day at the point, how did they even know it would occur and more importantly they'd have no way of knowing exactly where they'd land in a few years time.
What benefit do they gain from shelling beach defenses that they don't have to attack?
I'm sure that if you sit and think about that for a minute or two you'll realise that you're just being pedantic, there was no need to attack the Atlantic wall if they weren't intending to land at the same time.
>It had nothing to do with conducting any offensive operations
And everything to do with Europe being more important to Britain, you know, since its right next door.
>>30368166
>>30368443
Hitler didn't have a plan to finish off England because by the time France surrendered he was already drooling over Russia. He just believed England would surrender any day now.
>any day now boys
Hitler had a multitude of squandered opportunities to finish off England. Could have
>not let Dunkirk brits leave via canoe
>had some half-assed invasion plan ready in place
>stuck with any one of his air attack strategies instead of constantly changing them
Churchill believed Hitler would have a good shot invading right after France fell. England completely had its pants down, and he knew it. They were arming farmers with clubs and spears.
>>30369350
He also didn't finnish RAF when it was the weakest since he wanted revenge city bombings.
>>30369342
Sorry, that wasn't worded too well, but you ought to get the idea.
Two quick videos about Barbarossa, why at the time it seemed feasible and why is was ultimately doomed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft-dYaZKxwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3zFG14CqB8
I don't know if I want to go that far and say that German victory was possible, because it would involve many changes to what actually played out, but I can see why they launched the operation. At the time they were in a pretty good situation: The US was not in the war yet, Britain was on the defensive and incapable of really fighting back in Europe (Even with the loss of the Battle of Britain for Germany it wasn't something they immediately had to worry about), and the Soviets were recovering from purges and their previous war with Finland. If there was a time to begin the war with the USSR, they picked the right one.
>>30368114
>smoker
they never had any kind of dignity in the first place
>>30369200
>The lack of German naval action at the time goes to show that the British Navy was hardly doing 'jack and shit'.
The Kriegsmarine was only ever capable of being a fleet in being from the very start. The fact that they managed to bottle up the Home Fleet from doing anything of import and even kept them so much as harrying Weserbung speaks volumes to the competency of the RN.
>>30369342
>And what is pootling about in a small area of the water like the Channel with some of your primary assets well within range of land based guns that will have an easy time hitting you as you sit completely still to ensure that you can accurately hit land fortifications?
>Naval gunnery can only hit things if they are stationary
This alone negates your entire post. You know nothing of naval warfare.
>>30368493
>be biggest country in the world
>almost get defeated by a small european country which was at a 2 front war
Are Russians actually proud about this?
>>30368026
It pisses me off so much when people compare Trump to Hitler.
That's such a fucking insult to Hitler.
>>30368819
frozen petrol
broken leaf springs
high ground pressure
frozen mud caught in interleaved road wheels
torsion bars susceptible to mines
weak gearbox + 15 tonne over weight
alloy block v12 cant run at max rpm
front drive sprocket puts more stress on tracks
front mounted gearbox requires a prop shaft go under the turret basket
Ferdinand and panther have insufficient vision ports to counter infantry advance
panther can catch fire when going uphill or down hill due to accumulation of leaking fuel in the sealed engine bay
complex and flat armour that is expensive to fabricate and ineffective given its weight
anti tank guns range between insufficient to barely contemporary
>>30369457
>anti tank guns range between insufficient to barely contemporary
I leld more than i should have
>>30369435
>That last guy that ran past the barrel
>>30369413
well, we just don't know yet. trump may kill millions of mexicans. one mexican is worth half a jew.
>>30368480
if you count every volkssturm kiddo and grandpa into that statistic, well... then it's maybe true for the german MIA/KIA
but then... to be fair, you should also add every killed partisan/etc. into the loss of the russ
>>30369489
>If the germans won't kill you your comrades will.
>>30369350
>>30369371
>not let Dunkirk brits leave via canoe
That wouldn't finish the British off, weaken them as far as being able to conduct any overseas campaigns, but it wasn't going to make it any easier to invade.
>had some half-assed invasion plan ready in place
They had a barely assed plan, even a good plan wouldn't have worked though. They'd have need naval and air superiority (not going to happen) and landing craft that couldn't be sunk by simply sailing your destroyer past it quickly.
>stuck with any one of his air attack strategies instead of constantly changing them
Even if they kept attacking airfields, Fighter Command only had to move airfields out of the range of German aircraft.
The Germans never had a good shot at invading, it would have been a complete disaster at best. Even with air superiority, the Germans had no way of stopping British naval assets sinking most of their invasion 'fleet' and harrying any attempt to resupply those on shore.
Don't forget, an invasion of mainland Britain would have been an all or nothing situation, even with air superiority, RN assets would have got in amongst the German invasion forces and they would have caused havoc.
>>30368769
>Britain had basically little strategic impact on the decision to invade Russia.
how can anyone be so wrong? read a book
hitler invaded russia to force the UK to give up/accept that the 3rd Reich is the dominant power of europe
>>30369404
>bottle up the Home Fleet from doing anything of import
Important things such as? Keeping the German fleet a fleet in being helped.
>>30369404
>you know nothing of naval warfare
See, you've picked on one thing since you're utterly unable to come up with a justification for shelling defenses you don't intend upon attacking whilst risking ships for NO GAIN.
>Naval gunnery can only hit things if they are stationary
Not what I said. When ships are hitting land targets you don't see them steaming around at 20 knots at the same time.
Until you can come up with a useful reason for risking RN ships to blow up some bunkers you have no current intention of attacking, this discussion is over.
>>30369457
Ferdinand and Panther only came into action for the first time at Kursk, two years later. Ferdinand was a specialized vehicle that was not supposed to counter infantry and the Panther was a medium tank, both were focused towards anti-armor roles.
But if we're speaking about June 1941, then German tanks really were not that bad. The Soviets mostly had T-26s and tanks of the BT series. Compared to the Germans (And their allies) with Pz III, IV, and 38t. These were perfectly usable against most Soviet tanks, as were the anti-tank rifles that were still being used. The real threads were the T-34 and KV (Which by this point were not as common as they would be later). Despite that, the Germans had undisputed control of the air so even these heavily armored tanks could be assaulted from the air.
>>30368382
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur83MLafhlU
It's pretty riveting, and it gives more shit to the Soviet leadership than the Germans.
My grand grandpa killed slavs in that op an lived to tell about it. I'm so proud. Such honor to have killed Russians.
>>30369569
Although I will concede that 'completely still' was an exaggeration, naval bombardment of shore targets still requires a steady course, making the ship incredibly vulnerable to shore based batteries and aircraft.
Again, like I said, why would they risk their ships for no return? Why is NOT risking their ships for no return a negative?
>>30369573
>The Soviets mostly had T-26s and tanks of the BT series
and a shortage of radios precluded coordinated flanking attacks
>Despite that, the Germans had undisputed control of the air so even these heavily armoured tanks could be assaulted from the air.
also with coordinated use of artillery
they did up gun the pz4 to deal with the t34
and I feel that the tiger and panther are a response to both British and Russian tanks respectively
but nashorn is my favourite
considering longer range engagements were preferred anyhow
>>30369538
>The Germans never had a good shot at invading
Because they never planned it - Hitler had this religious belief that as soon as France surrendered, England would quit as it had no skin in the game.
Like I said, Churchill was terrified that the Germans would invade right after France fell because they were utterly unprepared. He only realized after the war that the Germans were utterly unprepared as well.
If you think England was un-invadeable, you're disagreeing with Churchill, so I'm content to call you wrong.
>>30369652
The Tiger was partially a result of German experiences fighting the French heavy tanks like the Char B1. Those tanks were incredibly hard to take down and could deter larger forces from entering an area. The Germans used them either for long-range shooting (Where return fire from Soviet tanks was ineffective) or for infantry support where the armor was good and the 88mm had a decent HE performance against enemy infantry. They really were great tanks when they could be supplied and maintained.
Radios, as you mentioned, were a huge advantage that the Germans very much utilized to coordinate planes, artillery, tank, and infantry.
Even though it had many flaws, one of my favorite vehicles of the war is the Ferdinand. Big, heavy armor, great gun, interesting history, and it's a Porsche. Second would probably be the Jagdpanther.
>>30369682
Look, stop whilst you're ahead, the Germans couldn't successfully invade.
They didn't have purpose built landing vessels.
They didn't have air superiority.
They didn't naval superiority.
They didn't have experience in large scale landing operations.
They couldn't land enough tanks (see lack of purpose built landing craft).
Even if they landed, they wouldn't be able to then supply any of their forces (Again, see lack of purpose built landing craft and lack of naval superiority).
I'm content to tell you that no matter what Churchill was terrified about counteracts the Germans complete inability to pull it off successfully.
He wasn't some sort of omnipotent military God, disagreeing with him on something doesn't make me wrong, that is an idiotic assumption to make.
>>30368114
Fuck you man, no wonder dudes like Ehrler said fuck it
>>30368114
How have I never seen this before
>>30369682
>>30369720
Actually come to think of it, you screwed yourself in your own post.
>if you think England was nu-invadeable, you're disagreeing with Churchill, so I'm content to call you wrong.
>He only realized after the war that the Germans were utterly unprepared as well.
>>30368493
That image is funny, seeing as how VDV are humongous faggots.
>>30369607
>naval bombardment of shore targets still requires a steady course,
You're a retard. Navies were hitting each other with cannon while moving on moving targets for decades prior to WWII. You're willfully ignorant and not even worth speaking to, especially if you consider the Luftwaffe's maritime strike to not be a complete joke let alone naval cannon deployed by the Wehrmacht to even have similar range of a light cruiser of the day.
>>30369526
gotta love christie tanks
>>30369748
The photographer, Tony Vaccaro, was an actual soldier so a lot of his stuff isn't disseminated like signal corps photographs would be. His work is pretty gritty, being from a soldier's perspective.
>>30369489
>You see Sergiy if you expose self to shell as it leaves artillery you build up tolerance to them
>>30369735
She's actually a Hungarian refugee, if that helps.
>>30369965
He also took a lot of the actual, legitimate combat photos from the war, whereas a lot of the signal corps guys have a reputation for staging scenes.
>>30370001
When was Patton's 3rd Army in Poland?
>>30369874
You STILL haven't given a justification for bombarding the Atlantic wall when they weren't going to land at the same time or soon thereafter.
But sure keep babbling on about something you're wrong about, unless you seriously think Navies zig zagged about like crazy whilst firing on each other, a steady course still means they're moving.
>>30368493
lol wtf, chile marked as communist when it was ruled by a right wing dictator at the times of the cold war and is neoliberal as fuck
>>30367555
Germany's only chance of bringing Britain to the negotiating table was to defeat Russia. They did Barbarossa *because* they couldn't beat Britain, not in lieu of it.
>>30370061
What?
>>30370130
Yeah I don't get that either seeing that lots of German/Italian expats went to southern South America after the war
>>30369457
> post a pic of a Czechoslovak tank
> that was in production from 1938 until the end of the war
>>30368114
Where is there supposed to be a woman in this pic?
Because the guy in the center, is a... guy.
>>30367979
>Soviet Union was entertaining the idea of pushing west.
Kek.
Please explain how "killing all your generals" in the RKKA would help Stalin to push against West?
/pol/ get out
>>30367405
>Nazis BTFO
>>30368441
Sowing wind and reaping storm etc.
Revenge is always righteous.
>>30371001
>/pol/ get out
Awfully huge assumption there. Also Stalin's purge backfired on him royally when he tried to take over Finland. It doesn't mean that the Soviet Union was done with their goal of a worldwide worker's party. Additionally the Russian military were in positions considered to be for advancing rather than retreating or defending indicating potential aggression towards its neighbors which was apparent in the invasion of Poland. Stalin assumed that Hitler wasn't going to focus on Russia until later in 1943 or so and was preparing for an inevitable showdown with the hope that he would be able to make the first move. Make no mistake it would have been either Stalin attacking the Nazis or Hitler attacking the Communists.
>>30371115
Sure fits with the WWII end, where Stalin offered German Neurtrality and reunification, with an Austrian solution.
"Those fuckin communists, Hitler did nothing wrong"
Polack get out.
>>30371151
So are you just going to be a butthurt little gremlin or are you willing to discuss two military despots with large supplies of manpower going at eachother?
If I could kill Balts again, I would do it.
And this time, I would genocide these fucks completely. I would cut off their balls and make them beg and pray for mercy to Hitler/USA to come to their help.
Then, I would burn their house, kill their families and present their skewed corpses to the world at primetime TV.
Anyone who wants to intefere with my punishment against these craven collaborists scum will get a nuke in their face.
>>30370133
Wut...that's stupid. England wasn't holding on banking that Russia would swoop in and save them. If anything they were more worried Russia would actively support the nazis.
>>30369751
Dude learn to fucking read. Your point is basically the same as my own, Hitler fuck ed himself by not preparing.
>>30369720
BECAUSE HITLER DIDN'T PLAN or prep AN INVASION YOU DENSE CUNT
You are literally ignoring and repeating me at the same time.
Anyone got that kursk infograph?
>>30368830
Why do slav buttfuckers get so mad whenever someone mentions the fact that the soviets almost got their shit pushed in if not for the fact that they had ridiculous support from US/GB?
Russians should've been put into the dirt after ww2. Too bad Patton died before he could get those subhumans.
>>30368771
I got you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sle1E9QgHNE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdGBedH7Pxo&index=3&list=PL1tzOsff8lusGnDkXGSd3vzWX9Ei4y7uN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOnfV0-0apE&index=4&list=PL1tzOsff8lusGnDkXGSd3vzWX9Ei4y7uN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5fbmEy1GL4&index=2&list=PL1tzOsff8lusGnDkXGSd3vzWX9Ei4y7uN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXxPkpOTx9o&index=10&list=PL1tzOsff8lusGnDkXGSd3vzWX9Ei4y7uN
>>30368326
>things that never happened
IF you ever saw Come and See you'll know that only the SS troopers in the movie are the only germans, the rest were granted rights to fight under Germany's authority. (bulgaria, etc.)
>>30371328
NO AMOUNT OF PLANNING WILL GAIN YOU NAVAL LANDING EXPERIENCE, LANDING CRAFT OR NAVAL SUPERIORITY.
Planning isn't a fucking panacea that magically fixes glaring holes in your countries military abilities. No plan would make an invasion of Britain realistically viable.
>prep AN INVASION YOU DENSE CUNT
Picture related, shit-for-brains.
>>30371263
>your point is basically the same
Its not. You said that thinking Britain was nu-invadeable was stupid and that if I disagree with Churchill, who didn't know any better, I'm wrong.
I said that no amount of planning would allow the Germans to invade and that I Churchill didn't know any better, so disagreeing with him doesn't instantly make me wrong.
>>30368020
>fighting against an army that has 0 air force
>losing
>>30372396
This one?
>>30369126
It's more related to shitty German production than to the cold itself. You don't blame a swamp for you being an idiot stuck in one, right?
>>30368426
It only means poor logistics were the problem, not cold. Cold didn't cause German logistics to become shit. It just revealed how shit it was.
>>30369716
yee the char B1 was boss as fuck aside from that one weak spot on the side
shame they never got used in groups with hotchkiss h35 but I do find it odd that the germans did not learn from the char B1's tacktcal shortcomeings
and repeated the idea of a slightly mobile hard point that can be avoided till arty/ground attack is moved up
>long-range shooting (Where return fire from Soviet tanks was ineffective)
the charts show a policy of keeping the between 500 and 1500 meters away depending on angle
>or for infantry support
ive been wondersing how so many tigers end up in the city aside from witmans rampage
>one of my favorite vehicles of the war is the Ferdinand
porsche did have some cool suspeion and engine disions but mostly too compex to implement
and he really got shafted by being pitted against Herschel
its the sort of thing that wasted allot of time and effort
the stug 3 is the only reason I got into afv
from the moment I saw that weird gun mantlet I had to know more
>>30374052
If you've never read it, I highly suggest Tigers in the Mud by Otto Carius.
It's a little dry at times, and there's some mistakes regarding Soviet weapons, but it gives a very good view of how demanding the Tiger was and how it was pressed into numerous roles. Basically it boiled down to you treated the Tiger well, she treated her crew well.
By no means perfect vehicles. But far from the reputation some have given it today of being worthless.
>>30374383
>Tigers in the Mud by Otto Carius.
I have been meaning to get around to that
just wasted time on 17th century English literature
as well as translations of old Greek stuff
>Basically it boiled down to you treated the Tiger well, she treated her crew well.
cool thing about the tiger and panther suspension is that it allows the gun to be fired from the side
where as allied tanks of comparable fire-power would tip over or otherwise become unsettled
not so good for the gearbox so I am surprised by accounts of its mobility
it would be embarrassing to be flanked by something so large then having to deal with its armour
75 mm Sherman had troubles and would resort to some crazed actions if they could not get at the side armour
they would try to bounce a shell off the ground and up into the belly armour
or try to get a hit on the turret ring or optics
aside from track damage the only easy way to stop a tiger would be to shoot off the muzzle brake or damage the recoil damper
apparently the gun can not be fired safely if either is damaged this is also true of the German tanks with the anti tank 75 mm
>>30369487
>that guy who tripped and fell
>>30375343
clearly the result of false advertising
