so in light of the Orlando nightclub attack, and all of the gun control talk that followed (not to mention the talk before hand) whats your take on all of it as a whole? Mass shootings like this, gun crime, general crime, terrorism, ect.
Do you have any ideas on how to help curb these things? Are there any gun rules/ regulations youd suggest, even if its something you wouldnt say outside of an anonymous image board?
I only ask becuase I find you guys more mature then other boards and as a gun owner myself who thinks current gun control ideas hogwash Ii want to know if you had any ideas rather than just saying "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED' and ignoring it, I feel a little embarrassed when thats all I hear
>>30362233
I think that we don't have a gun problem, and why should we trust to government to regulate who has a gun when this nutjob was able to get his hands on one?
>>30362233
Gun control laws don't work.
Doesn't fucking matter if a """terrorist""" or a fag did it or what specific gun in a specific caliber is used. Doesn't fucking matter.
All that matters is this shit is happening way too often and it's only getting worse as time goes by. People need to start getting into guns and train then carry. Until then, this type of bullshit will keep on happening. People need to stop being pussies and letting these assholes get away with killing people this easily.
The media overblows this bullshit because they're a bunch of sensationalist dickbag vultures.
We don't have a gun problem. We have a nigger, spic, and hajji problem.
>>30362290
But crime rates and gun violence have dropped across the board. Stop spreading this lie.
And generally speaking, gun laws have loosened since the late 80s
>>30362233
Pretty much the only thing that could have stopped the Orlando shooting was better investigations of radical Muslim Mosques. The one the shooter attended was the same one attended by the first American suicide bomber in ISIS service in Syria andthe Imam was constantly putting out rhetoric that the WBC would blanch at. Additionally the kid's father headed a "charity" organization that was a front for funneling money to the Taliban in Afghanistan.
My take on the whole thing is that we as a Western society stood and fought against a modern critique of our civilization (Nazism). I don't understand why we can't stand up to both a pre-modern (Islam) and post-modern (Cultural Marxists) critique.
>>30362313
>Stop spreading this lie.
Yeah fuck you and your stupid thread.
>>30362233
Almost every massacre for the past thirty years has been a young male tripping balls on psychotropic drugs, or a Muslim.
Solution: Deport non-citizen Muslims and make brain-chemistry-altering drugs a lot harder to prescribe.
None of this addresses or is a cure for the fact that young black men commit damn near 60% of murders and all other violent crime.
>>30362340
But it's not my thread buddy
I think we do have a problem with gun violence/crime, but so does every other country in some form or another and each one is unique for their own specific circumstances
the problem I have with gun control is the people who push for it often lump together all these different problems using cherry picked data and strawman arguments that, when analyzed for more than 3 minutes, dont add up like they tell you they should and outright lie to you
I say let people arm themselves, if youre law abiding and want to learn, who has the right to deny you knowledge. I find it disturbing other countries dont allow this and act like theyre superior. Yeah there are some problems with heavy gun ownership but guns exist and arnet going to disappear so lets get as many good guys armed as possible
the only recent gun "law' id get behind, and im probably going to get shit for this, are mandatory safety classes. Suck it up, go sit at a gun range for an afternoon and learn some things. At the very worst you got out of the house and met some like minded people and maybe even help a new guy out. Just make them free and at a reasonable date
>>30362366
but young Jerome and Jamal killing each other out in the sticks with their ill-gotten Hi Points doesn't factor into shit with some people.
make the FBI run backround checks and tell the ATF to go fuck themselves. That way if anyone has ever been on a watchlist the FBI can flag them and do a thorough background check before letting them buy a gun.
Business should all have mandatory emergency plans and at least 2 armed guards in all places that hold more than 300 people. Mag restictions but no fucking bullet buttons. Also i think people and all police should be trained to recognise premeditated violence facial expressions. Also large rewards for terrorism tips and harsher laws for gun violations
My take?
>Native born American
>Self-radicalizes
>Nothing short of Orwellian thought-policing by the Feds could have stopped him
>Everything short of that was tried
>He kills a bunch of people
>The Right goes off about immigrants and Muslims
>The Left goes off about gun control
>Both want to roll back constitutional rights by Legislative and Executive fiat
>Meanwhile people are still more likely to be struck by lightning, killed by car accident, or beaten to death by the police than die to a terrorist attack
>The public cheers as their "champions" roll back their rights on all fronts
Fuck it, I'm joining the security state.
>>30362454
>premeditated violence facial expression
the fuck does that mean? You ever walk through a crowd of people at a mall, everyone already looks pissed off and wants to murder eacother
>>30362233
Niggas gonna nig, crazies gonna cray.
Really, I think we should just lift end user laws directly from cars. Note the end user, so you won't have to worry about shit like manufacturers being legislated. The only sticking point is one of inspections, but that can be mollified by a flat five dollar fee.
UKfag here, might just be my inner nanny state but these propositions dont seem too ridiculous, right? If im wrong explain it to me because Id rather hear it from you guys then another libtard
>>30362582
these right here
>>30362582
>>30362604
They all ignore due process and allow virtually no appeals process. Even if such a process existed, they would be backlogged if these measures were applied heavy-handedly.
Basically they allow guns to be outlawed through the backdoor.
>>30362604
The problem with this is it doesn't specify the criteria of who and how some one got on these watch lists to begin with. This would also lead to a slippery slope bit of logic where if you fit the criteria to be on the list, you're a bad person, when the criteria could be vaguely written to mean nearly anything or anyone. Technically, the list they have now for this sort of thing put all cops, security, military, and anyone with some sort of self reliance on the list. It would eventually morph into anyone that can make do for themselves with little to no government help wind up on the list.
TL;DR:
>If you're not 100% dependent on the government, you are a threat and go on the list.
TL;DR2:
>Like Communism, it sounds great on paper, but horrible in practice.
>>30362708
Plus, if you're putting someone on a secret watchlist because you think they could commit a crime in the future, why the fuck would you warn them first?
>>30362726
You don't know what the watchlist is actually for yet, but if you follow the logic you just posted to its rational conclusion, then you will understand exactly what it is for.
>>30362726
>why the fuck would you warn them first?
This is the argument the FBI director made, Loretta Lynch told him to suck a cock. They don't care, they will do it with or without rational justification, because of what >>30362724 said
>>30362604
Isn't the bottom left what we have already
>>30362233
If every citizen of the country was locked up in purgatoryish solitary confinement with no rights whatsoever there would be no mass shootings.
A reductio ad absurdum argument surely but gun rights really comes down to
1.) Should people have the personal freedom to have access to things that are quite effective in certain situations but potentially dangerous to themselves and others if misused or would one prefer a more restrictive but "safer" society.
2.) How well do you trust the government/the humans that are in charge of the government and their representatives (the police etc) to fairly enforce and not exploit these rules.
3.) Even if things find a good equilibrium between the people and the state, there are enough mentally aberrational that even if only trusted with a plastic spoon they would find a way to fuck things up for everyone. How quickly should the society be expected to react to this threat? What solutions could be in place to facilitate a quick reaction?
Wish I remember who said it but after the Charlie Hebdo shooting someone said along the lines of "we can live in a society that could have prevented this (cameras and SWAT on every corner) but I'm not sure if I would want to live there".
OP, if the US actually gave a shit about gun fatalities we'd look at 2 primary factors.
1. The drug war, and how it contributes to violence in our urban centers. (We will never do this because middle class America isn't being effected, outside of not being able to score a joint or a line of coke now and again.)
2. Why so many white males are choosing to put a bullet into their vital organs rather rather than seeking help from another human being.
We need more guns.
>>30363003
You forgot population density and diversity.
>>30363016
Plano TX has both, plus a shit ton of guns to boot. It's also one of the richest cities in America per capita.
You really think black, Latino, Asian, and white teenage boys are out shooting at each other over a city corner block when their parents are pulling down 60k+ a year?
>>30362233
>mass shootings like this
unnecessary tragedies
>gun crime
awful
>general crime
slightly less awful
>terrorism
might as well be a buzzword at this point, honestly. similar to high power assault raifu
It all seems to just boil down to malevolent people doing evil things and I don't think there's any way to get around that.
Freedom isn't free, friend.
>>30362233
I don't really think anything needs to be done. The amount of gun deaths that aren't suicides or gang violence is fairly negligible. People are going to kill people en masse if they want to. I think, personally, the gun control and regulations need to be lessened.
>>30362868
Nope.
The liberals vetoed both GOP gun control bills because the ebil NRA provided input during the drafting process and apparently approved of them.
>>30362233
Honestly the best way go put a stop to the mass shooting thing in general is to stop giving the maniacs so much fame for essentially shooting fish in a barrel. It gives their plight the exposure they want, fills their shitty egos, and of course encourages the copycat phenomenon.
Of course the media would never do that because of their profits and agendas, so expect every tragedy like this to be spun into a circus.
The gun control argument is completely influenced by the media. The truth is, there is no gun problem, but if the media pushes its 'outrage' at mass shootings then people will react to it. Most people only consume one type of media, and that is whatever that pops up on their facebook feed. If its dominated by 'people banding together against guns' then the general tribe mentality is to blindy follow and withhold critical thinking.
Let me give a different example. In NZ, there is a housing 'crisis' in Auckland. According to the media, its so bad that families are living in cars to survive. There was a 'protest' where hundreds turned up and slept in their cars for a night. The truth is, only a few people were sleeping in cars and thats because they were scrooges that actually wanted to in order to save money, no families.
Tl;dr, its all media agenda and perception
>>30363116
People say 'but you cant stab 50 people as easily as shoot 50 people'
If he couldnt have got a gun, he could have just made a car bomb and drove it into the building like they do everywhere else that has difficult gun access.
If guns magically disappeared from american homes, maniacs would just bomb places or firebomb places, or commit other drastic acts. They want to kill people not shoot people
>>30362429
Since nobody gave you shit for that terrible idea, I will.
The reason mandatory classes are bullshit (beyond just saying SHALL, which is true) is they basically are a way of saying "hey poor people, fuck off, you don't get to defend yourself."
You could accomplish the same thing without destroying the 2A by just having shooting sports in high schools. If I'm going to be forced to pay for some sluts abortion, she should be forced to pay for highschool kids gun education.
This thread was moved to >>>/pol/78145999
