So the Wayne LaPierre said that people should carry guns when they go to bars and clubs because of alcohol. But restaurants are okay. Like you can't get fucked up at a wine bar or from the drinks they bring to your table?
People can drive cars after having gone drinking, what makes guns so different? Bullshit.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/19/politics/donald-trump-chris-cox-nra-orlando-shooting/index.html
>>30336685
Isn't a "no carry in bars" rule part of what failed to stop the massacre in Orlando?
>>30336721
Yep.
>>30336721
>>30336829
But a new law/rule will work... Somehow...
I thought it was allready illegal to carry in bars?
>>30336940
Depends on the state. For example, it's legal here in Oregon
I have a solution, a DD/CC law. You're carrying, you can't drink. In turn, if you're in a group the group now has a DD. Of course there would have to be systems and other bullshit in place to prevent the bartenders from serving them alcohol, but it's a start.
Gotta disarm the population so its easier for mind controlled killers to depopulate the whites, bruh.
>>30336940
It varies by state. In Maine, it's legal to carry if the bar isn't posted (it's up to the owner) and you stay under a .08 bac.
>>30336940
Varies wildly.
CA-No law
NV-Basically like DUI with a .10 limit
AZ-No carry where posted and no drinking where not posted
NM-Confusing, but a variation of 51% law
MT-Open carry only
FL-No carry
What makes it okay to drive when not intoxicated, but not okay to carry a gun when not intoxicated?
If establishments forbid their patrons to carry and be able to protect their lives, should they not be responsible for that instead?
>>30336685
>in just one week the NRA has decided to throw gun rights under the bus and now supports a complete ban on carrying in establishments that serve alcohol and a ban on purchasing guns for people on a secret list
What the fuck just happened?
It's bullshit. If I can drive a car at 0.08 I can sure as fuck carry at 0.08.
I'm not saying this is true for everyone, alcohol makes some people crazy and guns amplify that, but guns are so deep in my brain that I could be dying of alcohol poisoning and I still wouldn't do anything stupid. That shit gets ingrained.
I don't carry off my property when I drink because the penalties are too severe if I got caught, but I still carry on my property and go shooting/hunting on it if I've had some whiskey or something (my house is on 62 acres with a private gun range). In my mind you shouldn't drink OR own a gun if you're not competent enough at both to do both at the same time.
>NRA being bunch of retarded and spineless white geriatric fuckstains that do nothing to protect the 2nd amendment
>a shocking surprise
Yes. I do support banning the carrying inside a bar. I will leave my Ed Brown® 1911 along with my Galco™ holster inside of my Ford® which is then enclosed in a Snapsafe™ Lock Box and drink heavily to forget the fact that my wife is fucking my neighbor Armando and Tyrese and how I haven't seen my penis in years due to my 'investment'.
Remember to support American firearm companies such as Winchester®, Remington® and the Freedom Group!
>>30337521
What this anon said.
The NRA doesn't protect the rights of individual gun owners, they protect American firearms manufacturers and businesses. There are other gun rights organizations that actually go to bat for the individuals, just got to look for them.
>>30337438
I'm as pro-gun as anyone else on /k/, but there are a lot of dumbfucks out there, anon. Some drunk people just can't keep their shit together. Spend any amount of time at college bars and you'll see people being fucking belligerent when drunk.
>>30337900
That's why I think 0.08 should be law for carry. We trust those dumbfucks to drive up to 0.08. I'm not saying "unrestricted" but fuck, it sucks not being able to carry and have a beer with dinner.
>>30337141
Yeah idk man. They were looking so good compared to the 90s.
>>30336685
Should've said it's fine to carry in a bar if you're not going to drink, which it is.
>>30336940
MN you can carry in a bar, but you can't blow more than a .04.... so you can have like one or two drinks and still be legal.
>>30337737
Care to name a few, I'm genuinely interested. My Massad Ayoob books are woefully out of date.
>>30338435
Not the other anon but Second Amendment Foundation is my pet organization being as I am in WA.
>>30337521
>this fucking meme
The NRA isn't perfect, but nobody ever lost a primary on account of the JPFO. There is a reason that the NRA is the liberal boogeyman.
(I agree with >>30338492 that SAF is good. GOA may be good depending on how Hollis v. Lynch goes. Heller Foundation seems based but they never actually do anything as far as I can tell.)
>>30336940
In Montana you can carry in a bar long as its open carry and your not drinking alcohol. Just cant cc in a bar
>>30338319
Come to Maine. That's the law.
>what are designated drivers
Women and alcohol don't mix at all. The other day I was out with a female friend at a bar having a few Coronas. By the 5th one she was staggering around and holding onto the counter while I was fine.
I would not want someone in that state to have a firearm.
>>30338492
It's hard for me to really support them because while I think they're doing the best work out of everyone I also think they're trying to force compliance with gun laws via court cases and while that's good I think it's a short term solution. We're fighting a culture war and eventually if culture shifts against guns far enough the courts are going to side with the majority, no amount of court cases can stop significant enough popular opinion (see Scalia's amazing dissent on gay marriage, whether you're for gay marriage or not. I'm all for gay rights but god damn that's a good read).
We need an Appleseed for people who have never touched a gun before/don't give a shit about history. We need something approachable, something that a random on-the-fence mom and dad would feel comfortable taking their kid to just as a fun event to do on the weekend. We need approachable events with SCAR's and deagles to convert video game retards into actual gun people.
We need programs to take people shooting, for free, while trying to keep them from feeling out of place. No politics, no bullshit, no baggage, and with actual competent marketing. I'd donate to that as fast as I could hit the donate button.
Fighting legislation and winning court cases is important but it doesn't mean jack shit if in 30 years nobody wants a gun.
>>30338907
Are you retarded? Anyone who weighs less is going to be affected more by alcohol, or any chemical for that matter.
>>30338949
That's my point, if carrying while drunk is legal then it has to apply to women and men. If you set an arbitrary limit like 4 standard drinks then the men are going to be fine shooting intruders but the women will be a danger to themselves and others. Best to just say no alcohol with guns at all.
>>30336685
>justifying drinking and carrying by saying drinking and driving is okay
don't do that
>>30338943
What we need are less idiots flying their Gadsden flags while insisting on treading on the rights of others. We aren't going to attract people to fight for gun rights when a good portion of the politicians fighting for gun rights also want to shit on the rights that others care about. Why would someone choose a politician who supports rights that they don't utilize while wanting to shit on rights that they do utilize over a politicians who shits on rights that they don't utilize while supporting rights that they do utilize?
>>30338999
>If you set an arbitrary limit like 4 standard drinks
That's why every law about alcohol consumption goes by BAC and not "amount of drinks" that can vary in alcohol content you fucking tard.
>>30336685
Wayne LaPierre is a retarded faggot.
I should be able to go into a bar with a gun, sit at the counter and drink water.
>>30339073
To your first point, it's because our current crop of politicians, on both sides, don't give two shits about protecting everyone's right equally and fairly. As demonstrated perfectly clearly with this last round of madness. They are perfectly willing to shit all over everyone when it's "their" issue. But they'll hold themselves up as paragons of freedom when it a different issue.
>>30338943
I was just at a gr8 event like this a couple days ago, put on by a state-level organization. Although we did make people pay for ammo.
>>30339073
Like >>30338943 said, it's a culture war thing. People with a principled commitment to liberty are a rounding error and a principled commitment to liberty is not a politically viable strategy. Not now, and really not ever. Under this model, I worry that attempts to pander to the left (which, let's be real, is what you're suggesting) will lead to us giving up all our positions while still being fundamentally shut out of the tent. Cthulhu swims leftward, but hitching a ride won't end well for us.
I could be wrong, though. It's not like there's some underlying logic tying tribal positions together. Maybe we'll see a shift.
>in any case, I'm not sure who you're thinking of exactly
>the NRA used to talk shit about violent video games but that was back when talking shit about violent video games was all the rage among Ms. Grundies from all sides of the political spectrum
>the gun community is full of gays and Asians and on an average saturday my range has more black people on it than an average whole foods
>(which speaks to the point, I think, that it's not about diversity [or whatever] as such--it's about which tribe you're in. Diversity will be used as a club to beat you if you're not in the tent and quietly ignored, for now, if you're in the tent.).
>but anyway I think you're relying too much on the media portrayal of gun owners and not enough on what they're actually like irl
>>30338610
>The NRA isn't perfect, but nobody ever lost a primary on account of the JPFO. There is a reason that the NRA is the liberal boogeyman.
That's irrelevant when they're willing to sell you out to maintain that status.
>>30336685
jesus christ, why would anyone play with guns when they're intoxicated?
how is that not illegal where you live? It's a fucking firearm not a toy.
>>30342220
No, it's extremely relevant. The NRA is a Schelling point for coordination. If the NRA's willing to sell us out, where do we go and how do we know we'll all go there? That's a rhetorical question--I know there are other organizations. My point is that the problem is not whether they exist, it's how to coordinate. The NRA's position as the natural flag to rally around is important. Now, it CAN squander that institutional capital if it fucks up badly enough, but it's not a purely binary proposition, it's a sliding scale.
(Additionally, given the history of the NRA and the GOA, I suspect an internal coup is more likely than a mass exodus.).
>>30342280
>an internal coup is more likely than a mass exodus
fudds vs mallninjas
You guys should look at reality for a moment.
Letting people carry in bars is something that people who are on the fence about guns (ie fudds, people who think that pistols and rifles are alright for civilian ownership but not a grenade launcher or MANPAD) will view as being contrary to common sense. You might say "Screw them; they're basically antis anyway for being in favor of infringement!" but consider that they are important because having them in your camp politically allows you to have a majority when it comes to public opinion that you would not otherwise.
Furthermore, think about the fallout of letting people carry in bars. Any time that there is a drunken altercation that results in a shootout, it will be spun by the media into proof that we need a blanket ban on guns and that the reason things like that keep happening is because of special interest groups like the NRA throwing the American public under the bus. Any time some chump in a bar thinks he's going to stop the bad guy and be a hero, only to hit some innocent bystander instead is, from the standpoint of winning in court, going to be extremely difficult to defend to anyone who isn't rabidly pro-gun.
People here often say that there is a nefarious anti-gun conspiracy to disarm the population. If that is the case, why would you be in favor of a measure that gives political ammunition to said conspiracy? Because that's what letting people carry in bars does in the current political climate.
>>30342979
>Any time that there is a drunken altercation that results in a shootout, it will be spun by the media into proof that we need a blanket ban on guns
This already happens, but without any relation to alcohol and bars. This should not be a counterargument. The answer is that we must make it clear to them that this is not a counterargument by providing the data to the contrary.
Similarly, we also need to make it clear to neutrals and fudds that alcohol-serving establishment carry is not nearly as much of a problem as it seems it is by explaining that such a thing can and has been implemented reasonably and has never led to widespread serious danger - the very same way that the antis, when they attempted to work everyone up into a frenzy over Florida being one of the first states to implement licensed CC and therefore about to have blood running in the streets or what the fuck ever, were proven definitively fucking wrong.
Trump didn't even mention alcohol, he just said 'people at the club.' I'm sure no one in their right mind thinks being hammered and having a loaded gun on you is a good idea.
Related: I was at a fast casual place that serves alcohol yesterday and some wannabe John Wayne cowboy hat and everything was OC'ing while drinking a beer. He obviously wasn't drunk or causing a scene but I wanted to turn him in just for being a douche (illegal in my state to carry and have a drop of alcohol in your system)
>>30336721
>>30336921
How about armed security being allowed in bars?
I would like it if you couldn't walk on the floor like the other bouncers, you're just the certified "asshole with a gun" just in case some fuck brings his 30-30 off his gun rack because he got too drunk and decided that someone sneezed in his general direction.
>>30343707
How about everyone being fitted with a device that lets law enforcement instantly remotely incapacitate them? You could fit everyone with a wireless modem, a drug pump and a container of a fast acting paralytic/deliriant then activate it if anyone starts shit.
That way, if anyone tried to start shit, anywhere at all, you wouldn't have a problem with police response times, they could literally watch through cameras and press a button.
>unironically supporting carrying in bars
Fuck that, I would literally avoid going out to any bar and club from that point on. Hitting on girls is already a gamble in terms of getting into potential fistfights, imagine unknowingly hitting on the girlfriend of a drunk roided insecure fag who now has a gun.
I don't think the people who support these proposed policies have ever stepped foot into a bar or nightclub.
>>30336685
in north carolina its been legal for a couple years that you can carry in bars and places that serve alcohol but you cant drink while carrying. it was mainly because you used to not be able to carry anywhere that sold alcohol. like applebees...
>>30344011
>but you cant drink while carrying
>Put pistol on table
>Chug a beer
>Put pistol back in holster
>Repeat with each beer
>>30342979
The best position to state would be that people shouldn't drink while carrying. However the difficulties in drafting a workable law make legislating this meaningless. Point out what laws already exist in states with bad versions and why they fail.
You get the "common sense" point across while providing education.
>>30344032
There's always a loophole
>>30344716
If they ban that or deem it illegal in some other way you could always throw your pistol up in the air as you take a drink and catch it afterwards. It might make the criminals more likely to target bars with low ceilings.
>>30336685
I told you faggots they would be coming. It will be slow and methodical but your 2A rights are under attack
>>30344011
Here in NY you can both carry and drink in bars. We rarely have any trouble.
>>30343974
What's stopping him from shooting you after hitting on his girlfriend now?
>>30345224
What's stopping that happening in the street?
>>30345248
Pretty much my point. It happens very rarely and a law against carrying isn't going to stop a guy from getting pissed off and murdering you.
>>30344848
>NY
>can carry
My sides
>>30345429
NYS is a lot different than NYC, man. My county is functionally shall issue and doesn't even give non-CC permits.
>>30344631
Like many other laws, its something they'll get you for after the fact.
I don't see how your point is relevant
>>30345910
What are you talking about? I specifically said laws wouldn't work. The NRA position should be that it's irresponsible to drink and carry, but laws designed to stop it won't work and shouldn't exist.
>>30337006
Its based on responsibility in Iowa. Can't legally carry if intoxicated but you can carry in a bar. Though that's only because "bar" as defined by the state sometimes included restaurants due to high amounts of alcohol served.
>>30345987
The laws are to punish you after the fact of some drunken altercation with a gun; they are retroactive by design
>>30347183
How exactly is a law that makes it illegal to carry in a bar retroactive? You break the law the second you step in the bar with a gun.
