So I was looking up info on the "Kingston Clan", an isolationists Mormon cult that still practices polygamy and whatnot. (The current leader has over 150 children). Through extortion of their members(many of the original members were made up of the rich Mormon elite. so they also had that going for them), they have come to own an empire of restaurants, clothing stores, brands, etc. worth several hundred million dollars. According to the wikipedia page, they own fucking Desert Tech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_Day_Church_of_Christ. "Financial holdings include: ....... a cattle ranch and a discount store; Desert Tech Firearms; Washakie Renewable Energy....."
How do you feel knowing you're going to have to give shekels to an insane Mormon cult if you want an MDR?
Good thing the gun is vaporware then
>>30219462
DTA's are far from vaporware. Just takes a few months, like any other custom/semi-custom long range rifle.
I don't really care. Ive given money to Bill Ruger when he was still alive, I'm on the market to give money to the Israelis when I find a Jericho cheap enough. By comparison, me giving money to a polygamist death cult is small time.
>>30219449
I went from
GET HYPE SPACEGAT 2000$ READY
to
into the garbage you go.
fuck mormons fuck desertech
>white conservatives who have fuckloads of white conservative children in an America that is becoming increasingly brown and leftist
What a tragedy.
Fuck off, OP.
>>30219624
>if white people act like Muslims it's suddenly okay and not degeneracy
yeah
nah
>>30219647
not to mention that shit usually goes along with kiddy-diddling
>>30219449
better than giving it to turkroaches 2beaqhf
>>30219449
>How do you feel knowing you're going to have to give shekels to an insane Mormon cult if you want an MDR?
I feel absolutely nothing. If demons legally sold weapons, I'd probably buy from them too.
>>30219449
I'd give money to a child rapist if it was legal and he sold a quality product
>>30219647
>polygamy = actually crucifying people in the street
yeah no
>>30219647
Are Mormons blowing themselves up and killing people in massive shootings?
>>30219449
Religious nuts are bad for firearms, the industry, and our rights. It has always been my opinion that the pro-gun organizations should distance themselves from churches.
>>30219543
>fuck mormons
How strongly do you feel about this? How do you feel about JMB?
>>30219693
They just might now that they own a space gun company.
>>30219691
>>30219693
They probably would be if alphabet soup wouldn't be up their rectum in about ten seconds.
Remember what happened the last time we let these sand crackers to their own devices.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
>>30219718
Good point.
>>30219497
Pretty sure he's saying the MDR is vaporware. Which it is.
>>30219718
>1857
>1857
>1857
I cant believe im actually defending mormons, but fuck they are not salafist level of bad. Where would you rather live, salt lake city or raqqah??
>>30219718
>one instance
>one hundred and sixty years ago
Yeah, it's a LITTLE bit different
![Meme-guy-staring-at-computer-screen-thinking[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3aCat3P.jpg "Meme-guy-staring-at-computer-screen-thinking[1].jpg")
>>30219737
>Where would you rather live, salt lake city or raqqah??
...fuck. That is a tough question.
>>30219737
You know what changed after 1857?
The fucking feds showed up.
You're dreaming if you think they wouldn't all be marrying every little girl in sight and killing any outsiders if it weren't for people from another religion having the power to stop them.
Same way these jihadist fucks would be "harmless kooks" if their host governments could actually maintain a monopoly on violence.
>>30219764
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron
There are more recent examples if you want.
>>30219624
>>30219647
>>30219693
Incestuous marriage and polygamy were never part of traditional european christianity. They are, however, some of the practices found in islam most problematic for long term social development, besides usually involving massive mistreatment of females and children. Basically, these faggots are muslim in most every way that counts.
>>30219800
2 examples in the last 160 years? You're not doing a good job of defending your argument.
>>30219800
He just sounds like an utter badass pimp to be quite honest my dear chap
Cool
>>30219787
http://abcnews.go.com/US/allegations-flds-church-police-chief-feared-church-leaders/story?id=30017182
>>30219784
I'm Mormon and even I have a hard time answering that one.
for a male,
>polygamy is the system that produces the highest number of quality offspring.
for a female,
> the best system is one committed male providing food and shelter -- a "husband"
> and a variety of young men to knock her up
stay cucked, everyone
>>30219682
So Desert Tech, then.
>>30220252
>Monogamy ensures every surviving and capable male receives a mate
>Polygamy automatically cucks the majority of men
There's a reason muslims are known to fuck animals you know.
>>30219449
Mormons are pretty strange but at least they don't really fuck with others. Better than Jews, mudslimes, or even some regular Christians.
>>30219653
That can be said about anyone.
>>30220319
at every point in history*, there have been more eligible females than males. monogamy isn't fair to those females.
*except colony situations
Wow who fucking cares
>>30220651
51% vs. 49% definitely isn't enough for everyone to have two. Or even a large percentage to have two.
>>30220363
>Mormons are pretty strange but at least they don't really fuck with others
Mormons are pretty cancerous in the Philippines. Makes you wish the Inquisition was still a thing in the Catholic Church.
>>30220651
>Unfair to 1% of women or 90% of males.
Tough call anon.
>>30220697
Philippinoes are also pretty cancerous in the Philippines
well, not really.
No problem here, I'd rather support white people than niggers, cock roaches, or spics.
>>30220680
>>30220701
are either of you gents reproducing?
so, that makes three for me.
>>30219709
I too support the separation of church and nugget. Toting around a weapon in one hand and a holy book in the other makes you look like a terrorist.
>>30220262
underrated
>>30219820
Things that are part of traditional european christianity
>bombing civilians
>immigrating to a foreign country then committing treason by waging war against it on behalf of a hostile Papal state
I'll take a compound of m-m-muh sister wives in late 19th century fashion over a fucking Papist any day.
>>30220680
Interesting tool to see just how out of proportion things are.
labs.time.com/story/see-the-ratio-of-single-men-to-women-where-you-live/
>>30219709
the concept of "rights" is very much religious & christian
Where do "rights" come from in the atheist world view?
Most organized churchs in the US are supporting leftist agendas anyways, mass immigration, browning of the country, etc, which inevitably leads to socialism
Proud Mormon here, not too pleased that the Muzzies took the Mormon crown for most violent religious group in North America.
>>30221037
yup
>>30221069
Protip: You are born with unlimited rights. Your parents inflict some of the first rules into your life, though many of those may eventually change. Later, you go out into social situations, including school, and learn those rules. Much later, you learn that as an adult you have additional rules to worry about from the government, maybe a few at your job. And yes, some of those rules and restrictions come from religion.
Rights are simply those things that are either untouched by rules or have rules dictating your freedom.
>>30220697
You say that like mudslimes aren't rampant on your shitty little island either.
>>30220743
>he wants to live with three women
Want to know how I know you won't be in the 10%?
>He believes any religion is good
>not realizing every organized faith is designed to control and limit freedom
>inb4 muh pedophile church is better than theirs
>>30221235
Go to bed marx
>>30221249
Go fuck your sister, cletus
>>30219449
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSZ-jrr4LU4 the video of Tim is creepy af. Also the BDSM gay dude in a pleather shirt did not help.
>crazy
The dudes aren't crazy. The main point of it was to corral and fuck as many girls as possible.
>>30219693
>google mormon wars
uh yes they were.
>>30221069
>Where do "rights" come from in the atheist world view?
Secular humanism
>>30221037
>>30221104
If you are a male and you have a college degree in the south, i have good news for you.
>>30221271
>Muh grey man
Every one of those guys is cringe incarnate.
>>30221291
Too bad none of them are attractive.
>>30221309
You say that like if half the retards that spout the shit they do even have have any idea of how the constitution came to be
>>30221271
Video Tim did*
>>30219718
Fascinating
>>30221309
Secular humanism is full retard, and I knew that even when I was an atheist.
>>30219784
SLC is nice.
I've lived all over the place and I'm currently planning on retiring here.
>>30221235
>more he's right
>>30220252
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9iiO_iI5n0
"""""""""""""""""cuck""""""""""""""""""""
>>30221069
>the concept of "rights" is very much religious & christian
No, no it isn't. In a Christian worldview there are no rights. Either you are subservient to god or you are condemned to hell.
>>30221037
Pretty sure polygamy is legal in Canada. That's why all the old-school Mormons migrate there, Right? Also hard to believe it's not legal in The Netherlands and Cuckland (Scandinavia).
>>30221069
>Where do "rights" come from in the atheist world view?
They don't "come" from anything. What you're saying indicates that rights are afforded to man. I think most atheists would say that you are born with rights and kings, senators, and God takes them away.
>>30221553
On what grounds do you have those rights?
>>30221455
Yeah...but you're Mormon. I'd say you are biased.
>>30221309
There are no rights in an atheist world because nothing, not even life itself, has any intrinsic value or worth; it's all just meaningless chemical reactions and quantum physics. That's why atheism is philosophically bullshit.
>>30221564
>Yeah...but you're Mormon.
Actually I've been an atheist for about 25 years.
And thanks to Uncle Sam, I've been plenty of worse places.
I'll admit, I like the Med and some of the California coast, but considering cost of living, Utah is really great.
>>30221560
There are no grounds established by nature aside from natural laws, none of which are broken. It's very common for people to look for someone or something to grant approval for behaviors because of instinctive evolutionary characteristics, but it is up to each individual to assert that they have their own rights.
You have the right to life. Even though hospitals are collectively established to help you enjoy that right, they do not ever afford it to you.
I have the right not to be killed. It is up to me to make sure that is truly the case, not the police.
Honestly, I don't understand what "grounds" Christians believe they are afforded laws when God has a plan from which the world does not deviate.
>>30221519
That's Islam, dummy. It literally means obedience to God.
>>30221623
>nothing, not even life itself, has any intrinsic value or worth
Based on what appraisal exactly? Where the hell do you anti-atheists get this kind of nonsense?
Well I bought Suge Knights music so you know for sure I'm gonna buy this gun.
>>30221658
Based on the beloved atheist concepts of reductionism and positivism.
>>30221632
>You have the right to life
>I have the right not to be killed.
on what fucking grounds faggot? From where do you derive these supposed rights? From the fucking universe or some shit?
>>30221652
>It literally means obedience to God.
1. It means submission.
2. The Bible (which I have actually read) dictates that man MUST declare themselves to be servants of God...unilaterally or suffer condemnation. Even Jesus, the good guy, does not sidestep this fact and very clearly states that an eternal hellfire awaits those who do not give themselves humbly to him.
I'm not trying to debate the validity of Christianity, but it is nothing short of astounding to me how much most Christians do not know about their own religion.
>>30219787
>monopoly on violence
>Exercising violence against those that don't want to put up with your shit because its the regular belief that its ok to be violent....
>he doesn't want his weapons to be designed by a fanatical cult
Protip: those weapons were originally designed and produced for use by the cult. It's the firearms equivalent of money-laundering. For every one weapon they make on the books they probably made five select-fire versions off the books for their own usage when they carve out Deseret from the carcass of America after the collapse and civil war. Why does this matter?
You can be sure those weapons work. You're not buying a weapon churned out using cutrate labor by some shekel grubbing conglomerate. You're buying weapons from fanatics with a fanatical eye for quality control. You're basically buying weapons from Nod.
>b-but I'm a pussy faggot and I don't want to support Nod.
Nod doesn't necessarily need your money and will build the rifles regardless. At least this way you're getting a rifle out of the equation.
Peace through power bitches.
>>30221678
It is very clear to me that you haven't really talked to many educated atheists. We aren't all Nihilist Christ haters.
>>30221069
You are correct in asserting that rights, have religious roots (you need a god for something to be god given)
Even secular humanism is just Protestantism with god abstracted away.
However, you don't really need the concept of "Natural Rights" to conclude that murder and theft are bad ideas. Even if you think you can get away with them in the short term, you eventually just keep making more enemies.
The state thinks it's a good idea to monopolize violence, but this is short sighted thinking. If they were capable of taking a long view they would realize it's better to have the support of an armed populace than the resentment of a disarmed one.
OFFICIAL TIER LIST FOR PATCH 20.16
>God Tier
Quaker
>Weaboo Tier
Buddhism
>Metal as fuck
Hinduism
>Meme Tier
Islam
Christianity
>Shitty Cult tier
Scientology
LDS
>Oy Vey Goyim Tier
Judaism
>>30221698
I made this clear. YOU ARE NOT AFFORDED ANYTHING. You give yourself rights. God does not keep me alive. I do.
Do you believe God gives people good jobs and hot wives too? No, men forge their own futures.
>>30221734
inb4 edgy but
>organized religion
>not being nerfed out of the meta since like patch 1.575
>>30221752
Don't assume I'm a christfag, anon.
I don't get why you would even call them rights at that point. Whatever I fucking want is a right, if I can get it. Why even acknowledge it?
>>30221724
I know. But tell that to Bill Maher and the the neckbeards.
>>30221773
>Whatever I fucking want is a right, if I can get it. Why even acknowledge it?
It's based upon the universality of human empathy. "Rights" are things things that men have in the absence of other humans taking them away.
>>30221724
"Educated atheist" just means someone who is particularly skilled at intellectual double-think.
Positivism is a single lane highway that leads to a single destination. You have no more inherent value than any other chemical reaction in the universe.
If you have not come to this conclusion already it's because you haven't actually put much thought into what the ramifications of what it means to believe in a purely material world where humans have no free will, no souls, or any other metaphysical trump card to differentiate us from a fizzing baking soda volcano science fair experiment.
>>30221734
It is too bad there aren't more Quakers. That's Christianity done flawlessly, right there.
>>30219449
i don't give a shit if it's a good gun
>>30221775
>Those anecdotes are from asking nominal Christians on the street questions, not the ones that go to church twice a week and attend bible study.
True, but I would venture to say that most people who call themselves Christians do not take the Bible very seriously.
>>30221805
>Bill Maher and the the neckbeards
Ugh, no thank you.
>>30221812
>empathy
>universal
>>30219820
yeah fuck those car bombing, beheading, American hating Mormon cunts.
>>30221847
The universality of human empathy does not imply that empathy is universal among humans.
>>30221870
Then it's not exactly universal is it m8?
>>30221249
This.
Just because all religions are equally without convincing proof of their beliefs, and just because Christianity and most popular ones have been the source of authoritarianism before doesn't mean that the point of religion is authoritarianism.
Christianity started out as a subversive doom cult afterall.
>>30221882
Again, what I said doesn't imply that.
>>30221623
Are you retarded?
Morals like everything are based on evolution. They are an adaptation that makes human life safer and easier.
We may not have any point to our existence but that doesn't mean we don't still want to survive, and therefore don't have to be moral.
I don't believe in Idealism, but that doesn't mean I have to be a relativist with my head up my ass, it doesn't mean rights don't exist, they just exist in a pragmatic sense that "rights" is a good way of modeling human attitudes.
>>30221728
>conflating industrialized liberalism and Protestantism
Go to bed Weber.
>>30221927
>We may not have any point to our existence
Why argue that? I'm an atheist too, but there's nothing about life that suggests definitively that there is no intrinsic value or purpose to it.
>>30219718
>Tfw Mormon
This isn't even the same church that owns DesertTech senpai
>>30221678
But anon... soft positivism is the foundation of most modern thought.
To be anti-positivist in general would require you believe in the supernatural to such an extent you believe that the world doesn't even follow logical rules.
Moral antipositivism and legal antipositivism are however fairly defensible.
>>30221306
>1838
Stop gasping at straws, pham. Give me an example that happened on this year. I can give dozens of weekly examples of muslims acting like savages with a raging hard on for explosions.
>>30221623
Atheist simply means someone who doesn't believe in God. Just like religious folk, a bunch of faggoty assholes spew off at the mouth with all their, "A real _____ believes this.", type bullshit and give the rest of us an even shittier name.
>>30221965
Value and purpose only have meaning as relative terms, nothing can have intrinsic value just like nothing is intrinsically big or small except in relationship to other things.
Any argument for human life having a meaning and purpose is circular logic.
We don't need a "higher purpose" though, we can just embrace what we are and make our life's goal to pursue natural human goals, that's good enough for me.
![1310497836236[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/eUbbaVE.png "1310497836236[1].png")
>>30221816
>TFW this sounds more nihilistic than most scientists I know
>TFW I know many scientists
>>30221716
>You're basically buying weapons from Nod.
That sounds fucking awesome tbqh, pham.
>>30221816
Only if you define free will in an incompatible with nondeterminism sense and only if you define soul in a supernatural sense.
Because we are human we want to survive and do things that humans like to do. Trying to require metaphysical justification to sanction this is a trap that we fall into because we are too good at abstraction and we are very goal oriented.
Tell me one reason why people need free will or metaphysical souls or to be differentiated from a science fair experiment in a meaningful way?
One reason.
While you're at it, provide a definition of the word "need" that doesn't require a justification such as "I need X in order to do Y".
Caring about free will and shit is the real doublethink.
>>30221927
>Morals like everything are based on evolution.
We have zero scientific proof of Evolution-based morality. Atheists like to say this, but the most we have found in nature is hierarchical enforcement. There are no ethics or moral behavior in non-hominids. Are YOU retarded (fuck, I wish we could use italics)?
>>30222009
>Any argument for human life having a meaning and purpose is circular logic.
I agree that arguments for intrinsic value to life do run into troubles, but that's only because there is no positive basis for it. I know what you're thinking now "that's what Christians say about God", but here's the kicker. There is also no positive base from which you could argue that life is devoid of intrinsic value. This, precisely because the relative comparison that can be made is the absence of life. To what extent is it possible, at all, to posit that an absence of life is the same as life? Or better?
>>30221816
>>30222070
>Atheists like to say this
No they don't. They wouldn't like to say this for the primary reason that you stated in your first sentence. There are two atheists arguing with that exact conjecture right now.
>>30222070
There is also no language in non-hominids, which is why they aren't sentient.
We don't have to see animals evolving morals to see that our own morals are conveniently all about avoiding and resolving conflict, encouraging sustainable breeding practices, providing mutual protection etc.
>>30221564
>implying everyone in SLC is Mormon
reeeee
SLC is less than half Mormon, which is low considering the fact that Utah was established by Mormons
>This thread.
>All these failures to recognize the existence of natural rights.
>Massive logical failures by anons claiming secular humanism is retarded.
>All this retard tier failed philosophy.
What the flying fuck /k/, I thought you were all more intelligent than this.
Sometimes I'm tempted to believe that I live in a simulation designed specifically to test my psyche and its ability to adapt to insanity presented as reality.
>>30222107
GO AWAY
>>30221734
>lumping all of LDS into one
>not realizing that there are literally hundreds of splinter groups, including OP's Mormons
>calling white bread Mormons a cult
Holy shit you're dumb
>>30222107
Oh shit, look out everyone it's David Hume. Stop posting right now.
>>30221069
The words 'all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights'
They could have said 'god' or whatever, but the founding fathers needed the Christians, the deists, and the secularists to agree to sign the thing, so they worded that in the most vague politically correct fashion so as not to offend anybody.
Its not christian, its not 'not christian' either. Its 'insert whatever belief here' *wink, wink*
>>30221992
Nah. It's been a while, but if I remember correctly positivism was abandoned by most philosophers and philosophers of science because it ultimately led to circular reasoning. It has been replaced with stuff like falsificationism.
>>30221627
You ever get down to moab? I kinda want to move to that General location
>>30222075
Nobody is saying that an absence of life is the same or better.
Obviously living is better... FOR HUMANS.
If you were a rock you wouldn't care if humans existed because you were be a rock, see what I'm getting at?
There is value in human life, we are good at surviving, we like ourselves, we can do almost anything you can think of, but this value is relative to our own experience and how we think about it.
Intrinsic value has the same problem as god, if there is intrinsic value, value that is self justified, what justifies that? if there is god, who made god?
Compare this to the concept of infinity, there is no particular reason why infinity can't exist, but there's also no reason that it has to exist that we know of other than that if it didn't exist than something (the edge of the universe) would have to exist for which we cannot come up with an explaination (an edge is where something ends, how can something end if there is not something different from that thing after it).
>>30222148
Either you are positivist, and believe in nature, you are anti-positivist, and don't, or you are pragmatist and just don't care.
What you are talking about is hard positivism vs soft positivism, hard positivism is where humans are capable of understanding everything and our goal is to understand, and it does have the problems that you say.
>>30221507
Wtf
>>30222148
>>30222164
Let me expand on this.
What you are referring to is "logical positivism" which is like you say a discredited philosophy, related to verificationalism where you have to prove everything and figure everything out.
Soft positivism literally just means you believe in nature.
Confusingly legal positivism and legal naturalism are both positivist, the difference being that legal positivism says that laws are arbitrary but legitimate whereas legal naturalism says that laws are based on nature.
I've always found legal positivism and legal naturalism to be compatible ideas.
>>30222140
It is christian, as muslims or asians religions or everyone else would disagree.
>>30222120
its a meme you dip
go back to space jesus land
Nothing wrong with being a cult
>>30222234
Its more deist than christian.
>>30222152
Expanding on this, there are ~3 types of epistemology.
Foundationism means you think there's a source of all justification.
Skepticism means you think things are not "justified", but it doesn't propose a replacement.
Infinitism means you think that justification is inherently circular and infinite.
Since there is no evidence for the other two, infinitism is the best epistimology IMO.
>>30221069
You're a retard
>>30221623
That's materialism you tard
>>30219449
oy vey.
So many fucking freshman philosophy students.
Sorry, your shit tier university class that you barely paid attention in and was taught by an academic burnout didn't actually teach you anything but lingo to throw around without understanding what it really means or why.
>>30222580
>>30222107
>>30219693
Give it time
>>30222234
Not everyone else.
>most pagan religions
>buddhist
>sikh
>hindu
>maori
>confucianism
Probably MOST other religions would agree with the inalienable rights.
Actually read up on this shit before talking out your ass.
Basically the only religions that would disagree would be Judeism (because they think Jews are inherently better than everyone else) and Muslims (because sharia law is awful)
Maybe Hindu could be said to not support that, since they have a caste system built in, that seems like a whole class of people should be disqualified from having rights by accident of birth. Shinto as well by that reasoning.
>>30220743
Already did, broseph.
>>30221848
>car bomb
Say what you want about radical Islamists, but at least when they car bomb, they have the decency to die with the bomb.
When a Catholic car bomb goes off, they're somewhere else getting drunk, declaring condoms aren't real, and making more car bombs.
>>30221541
Nope. Not legal up here in Canuckland.
The only sort of weird LACK of law we have is:
No antitrust laws, so big corps love to move here
No filming tax, which is why movies (like fucking Marvel... like EVERY damn marvel movie) are often filmed here
Age of consent in some provinces as low as 14... yuck. Although I think it was bumped up to 16 pretty recently
It's not all bad though... I heard strippers in the states can't go bottomless? Or is that just a myth? Because honestly if that were the case, I just don't see the point. Why even go to a strip club for titties and nothing else. Toplessness isn't even considered nudity in Toronto. I see titties around the city every halloween.
>>30219624
LDS != FLDS
Fundamentalist Mormons aren't "white conservatives" like their normal Mormon cousins...these are actual backwater desert degenerates (and I mean literally genetically degenerate from their reduced polygamous genepool).
Fuck them and fuck people like you who knee-jerk to the rescue of groups just because you see them as being more conservative than the norm.
>>30221069
Get the fuck out of here.
>>30221069
Congrats: Worst Post
