shooting and /k/
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Why does it seem like most of /k/ ignores shooting as a skill? There's barely any discussion on bettering yourself as a shooter and instead, the majority of threads on the catalog are basically this
>politics
>shtf and other fantasies
>circlejerks over the same pictures of various operators
>same regurgitated garage ad nauseum
Rarely is there a thread that is dedicated to diagnosing shooting errors, showing improvement and discussing drills. It seems like the majority of posters here would prefer to take a picture of their gun over actually taking it out to the range and training.
>>30210355
That's a lot of negligent discharges!
>>30210369
case and point. You only know about Haley because of his ND incident.
let's post memes!
>>30210355
Because the majority of those things can only be improved by small changes in form and lots of practice. Neither of which can be helped by taking to someone on a Filipino rock climbing board.
>>30210384
I knew about him a long time ago, I just wish he actually practiced what he preaches.
>>30210395
Just watch the panteo bloopers. He just goes for speed.
I like Paul Howe's approach to fighting. One of the first thing he teaches is Boyd's loop - while I know Haley knows about the "circle" - I've never heard him talk about it or teach it.
Mental first.
Skills second.
Speed third.
Get ready to fight, learn how to fight then you can work on speed.
Seriously who would you rather take a class from?
>>30210433
Honestly, it doesn't matter once you choose a dedicated, capable instructor, and QUITE honestly it doesn't matter at all once you get the fundamentals down.
Every piece of combat theory can be read, watched, researched about, it's just up to you to go out and shoot. Yes it's nice now and again to take a class to have a dedicated instructor watch you and correct any bad habits that may be forming, but at the end of the day it's all about proper implementation of the fundamentals. Everything else is just theory that augments your ability to properly use a firearm.
>>30210433
Haley throws around "balance of speed and accuracy".
Basically learning at what speed you can shoot at any given range so you can shoot as fast as you can while still maintaining combat effective hits.
I'm pretty sure Haley knows how to fight and has the mental part down. He's just refining that along with his speed.
>>30210433
With all due respect to Paul Howe, speed is a skill. Obviously working on it first before you can shoot a reasonable group slow fire is not a good idea, but speed is just as important a technical skill as slow-fire marksmanship is. For the average citizen who is going to employ his/her handgun at relatively short range, being able to draw in 1.5s instead of 2.5s could easily be the difference between life and death.
>>30210355
I agree with you to an extent.
But honestly half of what makes this board fun is what isnt serious business
Here's a good drill to get used to random reloads and random malfunction clearances.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rctnH3iicko
Because as Geriatric Michelin says, "you get better by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave". Nothing exciting to talk about.
>>30210355
that's why i'm quitting /k/
bye bitches, i'll be back when you give a shit about weapons.
>inb4 libcuck
>inb4 cuck cuck cuck cuck
>inb4 gtfo faggot
>inb4 flim flam the zim zam
On this general note, what's the deal with Front Sight anyhow? My impression is that their training is suboptimal but perfectly adequate, their classes are essentially free, and they make money from inflated ammo prices and selling timeshares-is this roughly accurate?
>>30210355
Most of k does not own a single firearm.
>>30210355
Because there's only so much you can do without being there to physically observe the mistakes that the operator is making.
Paying attention to the central tenants of marksmanship, even, will only carry you so far. Some folks are shooters - others are not. In lieu of this, we circlejerk over funs.
>>30212385
Pretty sure the classes aren't that cheap, their website makes a lot of classes look like $1000 unless I'm missing something. They also sell memberships that most people won't really use, just like a gym or something.
>>30212746
Membership lets you take classes, as I understand. See e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lifetime-Front-Sight-Diamond-Membership-Tactical-Training-Certificate-/282037973614?hash=item41aac5f26e:g:CMEAAOSwKtlWiaTP
>>30212556
Past polls of 200+ posters have shown roughly two thirds own firearms. Stop perpetuating this meme.
>>30212385
is that Ignatius Piazza's company? if so, they're scientologists.
>>30212769
That's certainly a much better price than the website. I guess the whole point is pretending the classes cost a lot more than they actually do to drive sales during "special events"
>>30210355
Someone post the webm of him being interviewed and the interviewer is getting super wet talking to him.
>haven't shot a classifier in eight years
kek
I feel you tho OP. I finally got enough income to get back into it so I'm gonna start actually doing my draw and reload drills again. And actually get my CHL.
>>30210355
I'm Jerry Miculek. I don't need to improve.
>>30212556
What's a k??
>>30213017
Jerry would never say that.
>>30212385
Got to go to a 4 day course there. Was a good experience overall
>lots of drawing from holster
>controlled pairs
>daily lectures about the world of shit you will be in if you shoot someone
>shoot to kill
>pizzabro really seems like a d bag. Never seem him but hate his mail
>>30210355
15%> of this board owns guns and 5%> shoots regularly
>>30210355
Giving good feedback requires watching how a person shoots and see the results. Just checking a target can only tell you so much.
We used to talk about competition shooting a little more often but things have changed. In a lot of ways /k/ feels lot more like the others boards and I don't think it's a good change.
>>30214384
holy shit haven't seen you around in a long time.
>>30210355
that all being said...
pardon my competition gear queerness for a second. so i've got a 3gun/Production rig right now, but i want to shoot Limited. i've got a gun (2011), i'm getting magazines, and i can transfer mag pouches over from the Production rig. but because i've focused on 3gun i got the ELS. which is a 1.75" belt.
so what race holsters fit the ELS besides the Safariland 014?
>>30214367
That doesn't make any sense, but I think your trying to say
<15%own guns
<5%shoot regularly
Lrn2ndgrademath
>>30214499
main problem is the ELS is 1.75", while every other belt out there is 1.5".
should've just gotten a DAA or CR Speed and poked holes in it for the ELS
So how DO I get good at shooting? Are there good trust worthy guides?
I mean, I don't think I'm bad. But I certainly have room to improve. I have the pistol chart for correction, but is it the same for rifles?
>>30211298
>that's why i'm quitting /k/
I really want to stop coming here and 4chan for that matter.
If only I could find a forum that isn't filled with geriatric hobbyists and instead, accomplished competitive shooters that give legit advice.
>>30214823
>but is it the same for rifles?
Absolutely not. With a rifle, you have so much to work with like a handguard, stock and all that.
At most, you can diagnose your trigger. Don't worry, I remember being a newbie shooter looking like a retard googling rifle correction chart wondering why the fuck I can't find one.
>>30210937
This guy's got some pretty damn good videos, thanks anon
>>30210355
Probably because practice, not keyboard warrioring, is what makes you better
>>30214891
Doodie Project or Brian Enos
Just bought this on amazon. Can anybody recommend any other material that will help me git gud
>>30215334
>Brian Enos
heard about him and his forum when I was looking around the grayguns website. Is it any good?
>>30215353
Go watch Pat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzwVXA9J620
>>30215366
yeah. classifieds are good. the noise/signal ratio can get a little high sometimes. Doodie balances it out.
>>30214605
he's still technically correct. rather than saying that less than 15% own guns (<15%) he's saying that 15% is greater than the number who own guns (15%>).
same meaning, different way of saying it.
>>30215400
Are you talking about pic? Because I do like Brian Eno
>>30210433
>I like Paul Howe's approach to fighting. One of the first thing he teaches is Boyd's loop
Boyd was a fucking retard and OODA is an incredibly overhyped version of the very old "do to the other guy what he intends to do to you and do it fust".
>>30215082
For anyone who hasn't gone to the youtube page, here are some other good videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMcc9OmjmWQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQlUsb3Yug8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Q0mxFKDrw
>>30215334
>>30215366
Doodie Project is interesting because it's Ben Stoeger's forum, but it's also infested with trolls and habitual liars, so it really is kind of a wash because you end up spending just as much time trying to sort out the bs from the truth as you do learning.
The Benos forum is okay mostly but is pretty fucking authoritarian in its censorship of any drama. It's fairly high profile so far as competition forums go so a lot of the people giving "advice" are terminal B class shitters (jk, but actually) who really ought to shut their pie holes and go dry fire.
>>30215353
Watch Pat Mac Rifle TAPS DVD, do his four position shoot a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_0i3JSNwc0
Shoot the CSAT rifle qual from Paul Howe as well. A lot of carbine shooters can blaze a 2.5s reload at 10 yards but can't fucking hold a group on an A-zone at 100, which is frankly embarrassing.
>>30214891
I was fine for a couple years because I was actually living my life. Now not so much, shit sucks. If I could find a place that had more experienced people, but the same general feel too it that would be cool but I HATE how every other forum feels. The attitude, the format, everything
>>30215443
Enos has probably the best classifieds for USPSA/Multigun though. and you forgot all of Stegger's nut huggers.
Boomer Shooter looks decent too for Tischauser nut huggers.
>>30215466
>4chan is filled with unfunny trolls and shitposting
>every other place you need to watch your language, talk like a fag and adhere to a "hierarchy" then wait a day to get a reply
>>30215466
Certain other chans let you make your own boards. You could do that and start posting quality content there, people will come.
>>30215429
>"do to the other guy what he intends to do to you and do it fust".
no, it really isn't. in fact, ooda can be applied to literally anything and isn't even combat specific.
ooda is basically a recursive for loop. it takes an argument, formats the argument, performs an operation on the argument, and then uses its own output as an argument for the next iteration until it reaches a NaN argument or other break condition.
it's basic programming flow control for idiots.
>>30215473
Haha, yeah, I mostly lurk to learn shooting technique stuff, not looking to get too geared up right now, so I haven't been to the classifieds. You're right that Doodie is also infested with Stegger nut huggers who are also mostly trolls and sometimes liars. Doodie also has a sort of bizarre bipolar syndrome where's it's totally fine to tell someone to eat a bag of dicks or call them a faggot but people also post match videos with their real names. I feel like the quality has definitely declined over the past 2-3 years, I think a lot of the people who thought they would become USPSA badasses because they read Ben Stegger's book have become cynical and jaded after realizing they're going to be terminally A or M class.
>>30215519
if Stegger decided to shoot a Grand Power tomorrow, the streets would be flooded with Stock II's and other unicorns from Doodie.
then again, i've got the Boss hanger and it's a pretty friggin awesome piece of kit.
>>30210355
>same regurgitated garage ad nauseum
>regurgitated garage
>garage
>>30215543
Haha yeah. I think probably the only place on Doodie with legit advice right now is the training journal section. Somehow the edgy "fuck the industry and fuck your sacred cows" attitude has spread over the vast majority of the site so that even in the USPSA subforum it feels like it's mostly bitching about changes, criticizing things that don't matter, or making fun of Carry Optics.
>>30210433
>>30215429
>>30215504
>OP posts how /k/ is shit, spawning a debate on the merits of OODA as a concept and the credibility of John Boyd
Today was a good day
>>30215579
I'm glad I made this thread. It's been a while since there was a fresh subject of discussion as opposed to "is sig better than cz??".
I never even knew what OODA was
>>30215579
Boyd has his good and bad.
>>30215594
ironically... USPSA Production is split between the DA/SA guys and the striker guys. the P320 is the newest, hottest striker gun and Sig's showing some good support with the new Target coming out soon. the DA/SA guys do have a good argument with the CZ/Tanfos because of how heavy they are in the frame - combined with a light slide and it's a pretty good setup for recoil management
>>30215594
yeah, OODA is a good thing to know.
take OODA as your general flow control structure, and use METT-TC as your device for the "orient" phase of OODA and you've got yourself a pretty good data organisation system.
>>30215639
>ironically... USPSA Production is split between the DA/SA guys and the striker guys.
If I EVER do any sort of competition shooting, I'll probablu end up using my German P226 like a fag. I have a 50/50 love for DA/SA but at the same time, like the consistency of my Shield and I'm looking to getting a P320.
Ernest Langdon is a beast with the M9 and Px4
>>30215661
You'll be fine with the P226 but for some reason I think all the sponsored SIG guys are using the P320. That said I think all the gun hype and bandwagoning is tiresome at this point. Watching the ridiculous internet hype train jump from the PPQ to the cz P07 to the VP9 to the P320 has mostly shown me that none of that shit matters if you aren't willing to do the work.
>>30215713
What mods are you talking about? Because the toxic internet attitude of "you gotta have the mods, man, if you shoot a stock gun you're fucked" is exactly why people on /k/ overreact to modding guns.
>>30210355
>It seems like the majority of posters here would prefer to take a picture of their gun over actually taking it out to the range and training.
False. The majority of posters here do not own a firearm.
>>30215705
it's got a good trigger and Bruce Gray.
Max Michel has the Sig Max for your SS needs.
>>30210355
This entire board just wants to argue and hate on other posters. It is more about that than actual weapon discussion. Weapons is just a topic to fight over.
>>30215705
>>30215768
Is the P320 really that hyped up? I don't really get into the whole x is better x is best and x is shit fanboying.
I primarily want to get the P320 over my second pick, the Glock 19 because it can come with tritiums and has a really nice trigger out of the box along with the different grip size frames.
>>30210355
Why does it seem like most of /k/ ignores gun modification as a skill? There's barely any discussion of bettering yourself as a gunsmith, the majority of threads on the catalog are basically this
>politics
>shtf and other fantasies
>circlejerks over the same pictures of various operators
>same regurgitated garbage ad nauseum
Rarely is there a thread that is dedicated to diagnosing design flaws, showing improvement and discussing results. It seems like the majority of posters here would prefer to leave their home defense to some worthless 9mm fuccboi fucktoy with no mods over actually taking some responsibility and dropping the necessary cash to be ready for anything.
>>30215476
If you've been posting here for even a few years you know what he's talking about.
There's always been trolls and shitposting on 4chan, but lately it seems like /k/ and 4chan in general have been overloaded with them. And for some of us it's too much.
>>30215821
yeah, but it's actually a pretty good pistol and Sig is listening to competition shooters (and by shooters i mean Alma Cole, Yong Lee, and Bruce Gray). it's accurate, grips mean you can experiment, trigger, etc.
>>30215868
>and Bruce Gray
Again, not too big on the competition scene but does he even bother using the P226 anymore or does everyone on the Sig team like what an anon said exclusively use the P320 now?
>>30210355
Dude he's so prepared for when 3 people stand perfectly still equally distant apart from each other at close range...
All you idiots need to do is airsoft to realize how fucked you are if SHTF. Go out and get your ass murdered by kids with toys and realize you need to actually train and be strategically minded, not just shoot at stationary items while sitting or standing.
>>30215961
He does mention in the video that you will most likely be shot in the process if you ever came across a situation like it.
>>30212385
Keiser university of shooting classes
>>30215443
Damn, this dude's even got a video with pat macnamara
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAMhWGLr_k4
>>30214367
sup, britbong here and I shoot weekly with my highly regulated tiny little .22 and every now and then with my 'no shot bigger than 9mmBB' shotgun
I am actually quite good on the .22 in prone competitions and not very good with my shotgun in clay shoots, generally reflecting
the amount I shoot with and the instruction I have/continue to receive with both I believe
the only time I shoot non-competitively is with my airgun at reactive, paper and tin can targets for fun - I find paying for entry into some form of competition helps focus the mind a little more than plinking does any day
>>30215855
What is wrong with leaving your home defense to a stock Glock? Put a TLR-1 on it and you're fine, no overpriced triggers or slide machining needed.
Because you can google that stuff
Discussing it accomplishes nothing
And surprise surprise, the people who actually shoot are out shooting and not posting here
>>30210355
because the best way to ND is to get bad advice from a vietnamese watercolor scrimshaw image board most of the autists here will give bad advice just for kicks
>>30211077
>Geriatric
>>30210355
because no one here has guns or bothers shooting their guns
now fuck off to reddit m8
>>30217399
>thread full of actual advice, referral to outside sources, actual discussion of shooting
>hurr you can't get any good advice on 4chan, this place is full of autists (but not me)
Leave, you shitstain.
>>30215961
You realize these drills aren't designed to teach you a tactic, right? It's a fucking skill drill to git gud at target transitions. This is like telling a boxer he's not prepared for his fight because you saw a video of him hitting a heavy bag, as opposed to a real person moving around.
Also airshitters can't into tactics anyways. Watch some videos and holy shit the incompetence is real. They all want to dress like SOF but can't even be bothered to practice very basic immediate action drills or IMT.
>>30214891
>If only I could find a forum that isn't filled with geriatric hobbyists and instead, accomplished competitive shooters that give legit advice.
Isn't that quite literally a reddit subchan?
>>30217437
>thread full of actual advice
good luck with that faggot
>>30210355
Because most of the people here are unfit, lazy, slobs.
>>30215961
airshit would be fun if it's done like in europe, in that people take it seriously and will call out when tagged. paintball is better because of this.
USA airshitters are all 10 year olds who cheat. Someone post the webm, you know the one. That's airsoft in a nutshell
>>30217462
Concentrated cancer version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpSbTVMRHfU
>>30214384
We could WebMD that shit and tell people the possible reasons why they're fucking up.
>hey /k/ why are my groups always falling off to the left on every rifle I shoot?
>I zeroed and zeroed and zeroed my rifle at 100 meters but now when I try to shoot 200, I shoot high. wtf
>>30217171
Here in the states, we don't have to jump through hoops to shoot real shit, and air rifles are on the store shelf with no glass in front. Some places, given the right settings, people shoot whatever whenever, up to and beyond .50bmg, with absolutely no legal issues.
So, plinking is just kinda part of our culture, and good plinking comes from hitting a visually smaller target. Ask any American male who didn't grow up in a city if he ever tried to shoot a bottle cap or a penny with a BB gun, he will probably say fuck yes.
>>30217572
and then you have 50 shitposts either calling them a fag or telling them they suck because their pants are too tight/loose and another 50 shitposts about sticking their dicks in the gun
>>30217572
oh yeah forgot the part about tripfags shitting up the thread with bad advice and expecting people to listen to them leading to a tripfag circle jerk
>>30215443
I took Patmacs carbine class.
We did that drill for like an hour, and it was exhausting.
Cool guy, good class, learned a bunch
>>30215855
Because most /k/ level modifications are not gunsmithing. Drop in apex kits are not gunsmithing. Self ceracoate isn't gunsmithing. Building an AR isn't gunsmithing.
Milling a rear sight from GI to Novak is gunsmithing.
Properly handfitting new 1911 parts is gunsmithing.
Reaming a chamber for a new caliber is gunsmithing. Recrowning a muzzle is gunsmithing.
Also, "taking some responsibility" and "mods" have nothing to do with each other. You will never "be ready for anything" by buying after market parts.
Also - "worthless 9mm fuccboi fucktoy"
Really? Stop fixating on shit you can buy and actually go learn how to shoot.
>>30210355
There's always reddit
