First time posting, so here goes. I turned 21, got my permit to purchase finally, and am deciding between the Zastava M70A and the P-64. The Tokarev is in 9mm, $240.00, comes with two magazines and a hard case. The Makarov is in 9x18, $225.00, Polish made in 1967 I think, comes with two magazines and the original military leather holster. These are the prices at stores near me. My primary use is for recreational shooting mostly, but also teaching beginners how guns work and taking them shooting for the first time. Since I go to a very liberal university there are a lot of people that have never shot before. I'll be honest, I'm nearly ready to jump on the Tokarev but I wan't to hear some second opinions. (Picture isn't to scale)
>>30201543
Mak-daddy has a decocker, and SA/DA trigger, so there is more you can teach someone with the platform.
I own both, however (both) my Tokarevs are Russian TT-33s in 7.62x25. One is 1942 production the other is 1951. My Makarov is a Baikal MP-442 single stack in 9x18.
Assuming they're in the same condition, the Makarov is easily the better gun. The trigger is nicer, the grip is more comfortable, and it has an actual safety systems integrated into the original design of the gun.
The Tokarev simply isn't a very good design. A lot of elements stack up against it- trigger, grip angle, bad sights, no/poor safety, and in all likelihood long term durability. Every new shooter I've let try it (mostly girls) has been intimidated by the snappyness of 7.62x25 though that might be different with 9mm. Certainly the grip angle and bad trigger lend no favors to someone interested in just plinking, and IMO the TT-33 is mostly valuable as a collector gun if other options can be had for the same price.
And honestly, the Makarov has a lot of good things going for it. It's actually pretty accurate if you can get around the short sight radius, not just for a compact handgun but in general. It's been totally reliable while both my Tokarevs have seen malfunctions ranging from magazine-related FTFs that needed the detent enlarged slightly, to a stuck case that needed a table edge to open the slide.
If you're really looking for a first handgun that can also serve to introduce people to shooting, I'd recommend a 4" .357 of some type, although it might be out of the price range. For purely recreational shooting you can get wadcutters to really learn how to shoot precisely, and .38 special out of a gun that size is a real sweet spot for recoil- enough to be exciting but not so much that it's intimidating.
>>30201543
>>30201884
The P-64 is not a Makarov design.
It just shoots 9x18, calling it a Makarov is confusing.
And actual Makarov will be better than a P64.
>>30201884
>>30201630
Thanks for the insight fellas. However I will say that a lot of my reluctance for the P64 is definitely because of the cartridge. At the Cabelas nearby they have a shelf about 10 feet long full of 9mm, but there were only like 3 choices for 9x18. Perhaps you can tell me a better place to get ammo?
>>30201908
>The P-64 is not a Makarov design.
My b senpai i didn't know that.
Didn't seem like it warranted it's own thread.
I got a bulgy mak and am making it my ccw. The trigger pull on this thing is like skinning a boar using just your finger.
Is it better to carry 8 in the magazine and manually rack the slide for the more reasonable double action trigger pull or keep one in the chamber and pray the first shot doesn't have to be terribly accurate?
Also thinking about an double wide magazine belt holster. Is 3 full mags a bit excess for EDC?
I have a P64. Other than the horrendous DA trigger pull and the mildly uncomfortable recoil, I'm pretty happy with it. For a $200 gun, it's pretty great.
>>30201908
>>30201973
>Calling a P64 a Makarov
This is a meme cause by Gougebroker. Some ass licker had dumped a bunch of these $100 handguns on there, marked them up to $239, and called them "Polish CIA Makarov" or some shit.
My guess is he's trying to make the P-64 the Nugget of handguns. I predict we will see a lot of these on /k/ in the coming year(s), and nogun/poorfag suckers will buy them, post them on /k/, talk about how it's a great handgun and then adamantly defend them in order to comfort themselves for wasting money on a crappy 6-shot handgun.
Seriously, fuck that asshole who dumped these on Gunbroker.
The P-64 will beat the shit out of your hand.
It's small, it's all steel, and the recoil packs a punch. That being said, it's a fun little gun.
>>30201543
>asks about mak vs tok
>posts neither mak or tok
>pic related
Anyways, there are decades of development between the two models. The tok is much more primitive, has a few stupid things in the design, and is less ergonomic.
That being said, 9x18 is boring as shit to shoot or reload for. I much prefer my tok, just because it can handle rifle level pressures in a pistol cartride, and a 90gr HP going 1700FPS does excellent things to varmints, watermelons, No. 10 cans of nacho cheese, and other such fine game.
Tokarev is the one that breaks firing pins right?
>>30204653
Not gonna lie, they're aesthetic as fuck, but they're worse in every conceivable way than the PA-63, which in turn is just about on par with the makarov, which is worse than just about every other semiauto pistol out there, sans hi-point.
best 9mak coming through
>>30204132
carry it hot with the safety on and practice hitting the safety off as you draw
>>30204132
what?
>rack the slide
I've never shot one, but can you not just cock the hammer?
>keep one in the chamber
why don't you do that anyway? you chamber a round, drop the mag and top it off.
>is 3 mags excessive
yes, but have at it.
>>30201543
Buy a real fuckin makarov, not a P-64.
Bulgy Milsurp Makarov with matching mags and holster in unissued condition can be had for ~$325
>>30205834
>I've never shot one, but can you not just cock the hammer?
13lb trigger pull.
If I had to give an example of how hard it is to squeeze off a round without the hammer cocked. I would say it was like trying to skin a boar with your finger. Or something like that.
I mean it isn't exactly hard to pull that hard but it is a mothering fuck to aim and reliably know the point of release when you are pulling that bastard back.
>>30205834
Sorry read that wrong
>>30205861
>I've never shot one, but can you not just cock the hammer?
I mean technically you can but it is a bit stubby and the tension is heavy. Pretty much impossible to single hand without the barrel reaching for the sky.
>>30205834
Not drop safe. One in the chamber could be bad if the hammer gets caught on your shirt, holster, pant, belt, etc
>>30205861
I have several DA/SA firearms, probably with much better triggers, and I still can't hit jack shit on the DA. But on all of them you can just manually thumb the hammer and take a nice light single action shot. Can you not do that on the Mak? I don't understand this talk of slide racking.
>>30205900
>Not drop safe
>>30205673
>>30205680
Who made those grips? Gustav & Dennis Marschalko made mine. I like the ones that cover the magazine, they fit my hand perfectly.
>>30205900
Don't they have a transfer bar?
>>30205861
>13lb trigger pull.
Aftermarket springs are your friends. I gave $120 for >>30205964 at a gun show several years ago. Added another $80 for springs and grips and I love this gun.
TT33 is a POS
get a P64 and put a Wolf trigger spring in it
