>automatic fire is useless they said
https://www.mca-marines.org/leatherneck/2014/08/hits-count-marine-corps-rifle-marksmanship
>>30198909
semi automatic fire is useless and a meme, the core had its best k/d and hit ratio when the springfeild was standard issue FACT
>firing more rounds at a moving target is more likely to score you a hit
They needed a study to confirm this?
No time for additional range time to train marksmanship. Everyone is watching another powerpoint on SHARP.
>>30199041
When you say springfield do you mean a bolt action?
The military is adopting sabermetrics? What will they do with the old recruiters that 'know a good rifleman when they see one'?
>>30198909
>"The data also showed that overall, semi-automatic shooting was more accurate than burst or automatic for kneeling and prone while the multiple-round methods were better in the standing position."
>However, at 140 meters, the shooters, on average, required one less trigger pull to hit the target on burst than on semi-automatic, indicating burst might be more effective at longer range.
It says nothing about automatic, so yes.
Still useless.
>>30198909
If they'd just switch to 5.7 they'd only need one shot and it'd be over anyway.
"Full auto is useless" is a dumb meme that civvies tell themselves to feel better about being cucked into not being able to get select fire.
Semi-automatic is usually better but there are plenty of times in which full auto out of a rifle is very useful, and those times aren't suppressive fire, which is usually better with well timed staggered semi-auto.
>>30200526
Explain what those times are, please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyTCb3kG2BQ
>>30200549
>only issues listed revolve around poor training, skill, and implying that you always have to click from safe to full before shooting a target
lol
>>30200642
What do you mean by the last one? Just carry the rifle on auto the whole time? Cause I know of a lot of legit guys who will not let you on their range if you move with a hot gun off safe. NDs have happened with that kind of shit even in the SMUs.
>>30200642
Also I was being genuine when I asked for situations in which auto is better than semi. I haven't heard of many apart from suppressive fire, so I was wondering what you had in mind.
>Soldiers are able to effectively use FA in a controlled environment
Wow who could have guessed. Now lets do that same test while they're getting shot at and have been hiking for several hours.
There is a reason why burst fire exists.
>>30200684
I don't see where the article discusses full auto, just 3 round burst.
Also:
>The data also showed that overall, semi-automatic shooting was more accurate than burst or automatic for kneeling and prone while the multiple-round methods were better in the standing position.
>>30200526
Most people I've met who actually own full auto firearms either say it's useless because the police are called almost immediately or it gets dull Mag dumping over and over.
What's with the M27 anyways do Marines like it or do they beg for a M249 again? I know they probably enjoy the lighter weight but I am talking functionality.
>>30200684
>Now lets do that same test while they're getting shot at and have been hiking for several hours.
Great argument against aimed fire too.
>>30199041
I think that has more to do with it being the one war where the Marines were actually deployed and used as marines, which is, you know, what they're for.
>>30200667
Hitting moving targets or groups of targets (with an LMG)
>>30200719
Who calls the police over automatic fire?
If there was a question to safety, what makes the difference?
>>30199050
It is the Marines.
>>30198909
Your average jarhead doesn't need an automatic weapon. thats why you have you a squad broken down by fireteams. certain marines are machine gunners and you assault with suppressing fire. most of the time, youre returning fire against pop shots while the hajis are running away, anyways
>>30198909
>Muhreens confirm a concept that has been known for more than half a century and that the US military has had trials for guns developed around
Now if only we could get back on track with developing more controllable ways of putting more rounds down range for the average soldier instead of this "rifleman concept" marksmanship nonsense and bigger boolit bullshit that people keep repeating because that's how they did shit in "the good old days.".
>>30202777
>project salvo
Was that the project where you had a gun with 5 mini-barrels inside it's barrel which each fired a bullet?
>>30203021
Pretty sure there was a gun with a barrel that split into multiple smaller barrels in the early trials. It was the first in a series of trials that tested a ton of bizarre guns including the HK G11.
>>30200719
>it's useless
Boar exterminators would like a word with you
>>30199041
You mean back in WW1 when everybody else had bolt actions too?
Do army dudes and muhrines in combat with M4s ever use the burst option?
seems like in every vid i dun seen of combat in the iraq or afghanistan they shooting semi auto only
>>30200526
Uhh, I worked with SF teams and they told me that the only time they ever use full auto is when they're dicking around at the range. They do say that it's useful for the Australian peel drill, though.
>>30199097
he means the Springfield 1973 i think
>>30203264
From what I've seen and heard, burst is viewed as either useful for forcing semi-controlled suppression or seen as something only needed by people who can't utilize controlled bursts from automatic weapons.
Automatic is a suppression technique, bursts have all the wildness of automatic without its ability to let you determine precisely when the 'enough bullet' threshhold has been reached
>>30202777
Do it like the Russians do.
>>30201017
Marine here, the M249 has been and will always be a whopping piece of shit.
>>30203286
Seconded. Quite a few retired milfags in my area. Gun shop resembles a bunker armory.
>>30198909
>Muhreens learning that moving enemies during combat become harder to hit.
Fucking amazing.
Why do American military """assault rifles""" don't have muzzle brakes again?
>>30200657
Army Combat MarksManShip actually drills putting it back on safe every time you go back to low ready after each controlled pair.
>>30207467
Because M16/M4 have really soft recoil and negligible muzzle rise.
>>30198909
Did IQs just drop overnight?
The only reason the IAR scored better was because of the red dot sight which is issued standard on top of the Trijicon TA-11 sight.
Did you fucking retards actually read the article?
Well no shit a zero-magnification reflex sight would be better at hitting moving targets than a magnified telescope...
>>30207467
Muzzle brakes are good for day combat. At night or in low light conditions they impair the shooter's vision because of the bigger flash. Western armies are built around exploiting their technological advantage, including night vision equipment.
And while the sound volume sent in the enemy's direction is lower with a muzzle brake and thus aids concealment, the sound stress on the shooter is just too great, even with hearing protection. This also causes many unexperienced shooters to flinch, ruining their accuracy.
Check out the targets they were using.
Now that's a fucking great training tool...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbTelkmC7k0
>>30207467
>>30208585
>>30208712
Are you people retarded? They've had muzzle brakes since the M16A2 from the early 80s.
>>30208585
>Because M16/M4 have really soft recoil and negligible muzzle rise.
>u wut m8
>>30208767
but that's wrong, that's a flash hider and it's been on there since the M16A1, the only thing the A2 changed about it was no cutout on the bottom of the flash hider so it didnt kick up dust when shooting prone.
>>30208784
and yeah, not even that guy, but the AR-15/M16 wass specifically designed around a gas system that produces less muzzle rise because the energy is directed straight back, a muzzle brake would do little for controllability when .223 is already puny as fuck and the M16 barely has any muzzle rise.
>>30208696
>implying
>A finding produced by the post-experiment reports from the shooters, rather than from the data, was that the reticle in the M27 optics provided a better reference for aiming at moving targets than the Rifle Combat Optics (RCO) on the M4 and M16.
>>30208802
>the only thing the A2 changed about it was no cutout on the bottom of the flash hider so it didnt kick up dust when shooting prone.
>it's just a flash hider that only directs gases out the top
One of the other reasons for removing the cutouts on the bottom is that doing so makes the flash hider function as a compensator/muzzle brake.
Flawless study. Have every belt fed weapon in the U.S. Arsenal converted to semi only.
>>30201987
>Who calls the police over automatic fire?
I do.
My neighbor has some sweet full giggle rifles and I call the sheriff on him 4 or 5 times a year, been doing it for a decade. He has never figured out I'm the one doing it cause I shoot at his place all the time.
Sometimes I have my wife call while I'm over there just to watch the deputy who has been there a dozen times resounding to a call he knows is stupid but he has to respond none the less. Every now and again a deputy will grab their rifle and have some fun since the neighbor will offer the ammo.
It's a great troll cause he just can't figure out who the hell is calling the law as we live in the stiks and everyone knows everyone.
The best part is when he goes off on one of the few people who are a little less than complete gun nuts like the rest if us which causes everyone else to suspect them of being some kind commie idiot.
Good times man, good fucking times.
>>30208894
wow you are a cunt
>>30208849
>missing the point this hard
Most of the people against automatic fire aren't even talking about belt feds, you autist. Obviously a gun that weighs literally twice as much and is supported by a bipod is a lot more controllable on auto than a carbine.
>>30200436
>One less trigger pull
>Burst is 1-3 depending on how long you hold the trigger
>Semi is one shot per pull
No shit.
>>30206410
Opinion discarded.
>>30208845
nope
>>30208845
That's not really the reason that was actually given, just the random musings of internet gun folks. Because of the large front opening of the A2 birdcage the pressure inside the muzzle device is low, making it extremely ineffective as a compensator.
>>30209027
No I'm not.
If you don't into real live long term trolling that's your loss, nothing makes you happy on the inside like driving other people slowly insane. I have several trolls that have been going on for years and years.
Here's one I stole from a movie I saw when I was a kid.
I have been adding around a gallon of gas to my sons gas tank every morning while his lazy ass is asleep for about two years because he runs it dry before filling it up.
I can't wait till he starts running out of gas all the time when I stop adding fuel to the tank. He'll probably lose his job but fuck him for not doing the right thing and keeping his tank full like a normal adult.
>>30201190
Learn some basic history on the Vietnam war and the transition from the M16A1 to the A2
The problem isn't not hitting anything, It's expending all of your bullets in a couple seconds while hitting nothing.
Automatic fire is a good way to chew through all your ammo while accomplishing nothing. Semi fire kinda forces you to take aim, same with burst fire.
>>30209152
Wow such an epik trol!
Simply epik! :)
>>30209159
It's my dead uncles fault really.
I used to get sent to visit him in NYC a few weeks every summer.
He would make me get up early and we would go to a subway and pretend to fuck around in the turnstiles when the trains were coming during the morning rush.
Once I figured out we were making a few dozen people late for wrk every day I realized the power I could have on strangers. For the price of a few tokens my uncle taught me how to find inner peace. Find your own real life trolls. Start with shopping carts. Fill a few up with the smallest items you can for the restock people.
The old stand buy of adding embarrassing items is perfect. Especially when you can get in line right behind someone with sight on the bottom of their cart. When they bend over to get that stuff add the personal, condoms or whatever. Old ladies get so fucking embarrassed it's hard not to bust out laughing.
>>30206410
Oh so you had on in '84? How did you like in panama? What about the gulf? You know before they were 30 years old
>>30203264
In the 82nd, our m4s don't have burst anymore, they changed the lowers to just semi or full auto
>>30209152
If only of this shit we're believable. Oh well
>>30209531
It's all true
>>30208894
>>30209152
I've been trolling my son and best friend neighbor for years. I highly recommend finding a way to fuck with strangers. I know a couple old timers who bought RO hats online and fuck with every last shooter under the age 25 they see at the local public range. Swear to god, I've seen them do it or I pronbably wouldn't believe it myself
Old women are the worst, they will completely blow peoples mind by saying the most vulgar shit you can think of out of earshot of everyone but the one they say it to.
>Hurr durr full auto is a meme!!!!one111eleven
>M2, M240, FN MAG/Minimi/M249 etc. MG3, MG4, CIWS, Vulcan, Minigun, GAU18, Phalanx, PKM, PKP, Kord etc all exist and employed by militaries the world over
>>30209946
That argument is about how accurate the average fighter is with full auto instead of bursts you complete spergmaster, bnot if they exist.
>>30209523
Can confirm, it's throughout the entire Army now, even the m4's for basic
>>30210309
Autismal breakdown of argument.
Trying to reduce like 500,000 factors that affect accuracy into it being about full or semi auto.
>>30210352
Listen autist. We're all just chewing the fat, you want scientific evaluation go to fucking snipershide or something.
>>30200667
Quick situations at extremely short ranges. Achieving fire superiority. Firing through concealment.
>>30210352
>Doesn't know what a control is.