How much formal firearms training do you /k/ommandos have? I've been in and out of the local police academy for defensive/tactical handgun training for about a year.
>>30175640
4yrs of military training is a list a mile long, when you look at the individual training evolutions. I might post one in a few hours, but prob not. Hopefully some other grunt will list every fucking individual course they went through at SOI and beyong.
Morning ATF
>>30175647
>when you look at the individual training evolutions
It would be interesting if there was a way for a civilian like myself to take training courses that are generally only held in the military.
>>30175640
I'm a Corrections Officer, and I got 3 days of training with the revolvers we use pretty recently, but that's about it.
>>30175690
>3 days of training
Did the training budget get downsized? I refuse to believe that 3 days is the norm, and if it is, I worry for the moment when your colleagues actually have to defend themselves.
347 mornings of military conscription
9 years in a line PLT + all the schools/courses.
>>30175640
None but I sit at home and smoke a lot of camels.
Does that count?
>>30175673
Then you better join up, idiot
>>30175746
And give up my cushy corporate job? No thanks. No need for the name-calling, either.
>>30175750
Sorry, moron, it just seemed obvious that if something were only held in the military it would only be accessible by military personal, being the weakest memeder of your corporation isn't going to help you there
>>30175640
Was required to qualify on small arms in the Air Force.
I've taken both long gun and hang gun NRA approved courses.
Up until recently I, literally, had a shooting range in my back yard.
>>30175702
>I refuse to believe that 3 days is the norm,
This is actually very normal for a lot of LEOs.
>and if it is, I worry for the moment when your colleagues actually have to defend themselves.
Exactly one of the reasons cops don't have the best reputation for marksmanship.
>>30175761
>if something were only held in the military it would only be accessible by military personal
I was talking about if said training was available to paying clients via an organization like Academi. Unfortunately, Academi blocks off most of their 'High-speed' courses to only current SWAT and military personnel. I'm also sensing a very aggressive and unpleasant vibe about you.
>>30175774
>Academi blocks off most of their 'High-speed' courses to only current SWAT and military personnel
Solution; stop pretending to be an operator and join up if you think you have what it takes to learn the skills
>>30175784
Not pretending to be anything, just trying to have some fun like most of /k/. You're starting to sound like some military elitist.
>>30175774
The aggression and unpleasantness is because his 4 years of hardcore operator training have done nothing to provide meaningful job skills for his return to civilian life... basically just another bitchy welfare queen that thinks the military is the ultimate achievement.
>>30175640
Military, Pat Mac, and Ken Hackathorn classes
>>30175690
We spend a week going over firearms. Maybe 2 days at the range. Then once certified we go once a year for firearms qualification. Normally takes 1 day. Not like it matters though since we don't carry guns in prison.
>>30175705
Finland?
>>30175640
None, I've been on an indoor range about eight times and impressed a vet on his private land. I wanna say I read about this shit whenever I can find decent material to wat on the subject, but book smarts doesn't really translate to ability, so yeah, must be the arcade and console shooters.
>>30175823
At least every six months, m8, your skills decay after that.
>>30175640
>How much formal firearms training do you /k/ommandos have?
>>30175647
>4yrs of military training is a list a mile long
>>30175730
>9 years in a line PLT + all the schools/courses
Ok so I'm home from work now, I still have my circa 2003 USMC School of Infantry handbook. So keep in mind, the following list is purely the introductory formal training that Marine grunts undergo in School of Infantry, before they get to the actual FMF.
ea. of the following are individual, formal training courses
>m16a2 service rifle (consists of 3 individual courses)
>m249 squad automatic weapon (consists of 1 course)
>m203 grenade launcher (consists of 2 individual courses)
>munitions (consists of 4 individual courses)
>land navigation (consists of 2 individual courses)
>communications (consists of 3 individual courses)
>nbc defense (consists of 2 individual courses)
>offense (consists of 5 courses)
>defense (1 course)
>patrolling (5 courses)
>military operations on urban terrain (2 courses)
>leadership development program (consists of 16 courses)
i intended to type out each individual course but fuck that, this shit is not worth it.
I've got a SOTG CQB course, Nautical Navigator course, and Combat Hunter course under my belt in addition to the early formal training. But that's all.
>>30175934
How does it feel knowing you wasted all that time?
>>30175946
to be honest, it feels pretty lame
>>30175934
Thanks for taking the time to share all that, anon-kun.
The police university college and conscription service.
>>30175640
On the military side:
Basic Rifle Marksmanship
and dozens of small classes
US Army Marskmanship team lead training
On the civilian side:
CIFSO pistol training x 6
Centermass Tactical- personal level rifle instruction
I am at the point now where I teach at my unit and compete.
>>30175774
>I'm also sensing a very aggressive and unpleasant vibe about you
Kek, and I'm getting the odor of pussy off your posts
>>30176025
Okay, then.
>>30176034
Fucking lol, I'm saving that picture. Knowing this place I will have need for it in the near future.
>>30175640
let met let you in on a secret....
most military training sucks.
You'll get better training, with more hands on time, and a better understanding of a weapons system at a private class
this is why places like blackwater (or Xe, or academi, or whatever they are this week) and the crucible exists
>>30175770
dont confuse intial training with recertification/qualifications
recerts/quals are always a shit show
>>30176066
Another secret, taking a class doesn't guarantee that you will be any better than the average schmuck
>>30175774
Oh ho, sensitive are we?
>>30175770
>Exactly one of the reasons cops don't have the best reputation for marksmanship.
spoken like a true fucking pog
the reason police have shitty markmanship in a high stress situation is because its a high stress situation you dumb fucking mook
because an adrenaline dump makes your hands shakey and tour fingers not work, because you get tunnel vision auditory exclusion, because you're trying to move and shoot and someone that is most likely moving and shooting, or you've already been unexpectedly injured and have to compensate for the injury, or try to avoid innocents deaths, or about a billion other reasons that literally no amount of training can compensate for
>>30175640
It's not that hard to become highly trained in firearms and hand-to-hand combat without ever joining the military. There are LOADS of places that will gladly train you all of the deadly defensive and offensive tactics/fighting styles to an expert level to where nobody would ever fuck with you if they knew what was good for them, including special forces operators.
It just will cost some money being that you'd be taking classes, not as much as people think though. You'll be WAY better off than anyone in the military, though. The training would be much more personalized so you'd get more powerful much faster.
Hell, most of /k/ would be better off spending that $500 from their first shitty gun on training. Knowing how to defend yourself to an expert level will make you stupidly confident, because you really have nothing to be scared of, ever. If you're also trained in firearms and have a CCW, just forget it. Nobody would ever dare fuck with you because for all intents and purposes, you have the self-defense training of an elite special forces operator. You know how to kill someone with an ass-hair for all anyone knows.
>>30176066
This is true.
>>30175797
hes probably just bitter because he chose a stupid mos like "3711e recycling specialist" and has to sort through shredded paperwork and remove all the iced tea cartons that are half full of dip spit
>>30176094
>Knowing how to defend yourself to an expert level will make you stupidly confident, because you really have nothing to be scared of, ever. If you're also trained in firearms and have a CCW, just forget it. Nobody would ever dare fuck with you because for all intents and purposes, you have the self-defense training of an elite special forces operator. You know how to kill someone with an ass-hair for all anyone knows
This is what man children actually believe
Is Gunsite good?
>>30176094
When's the last time you walked through a black neighborhood tough guy
>>30176102
All of this about muh OPERATOR is a load of shit. 95% of the information is available and classes are taught. If anything, you wouldn't have the discipline that a genuine military operator would have, but why would you need that when you're just using all of it for self-defense and a proficiency in fighting? You're not handling secret documents or rescuing a fucking hostage, here. This is just for you to know on the chance that a dindu and his friend feel like fucking with you.
Even the most shit-tier amateur boxers still fuck people up on the street that try to fight them. There are videos of that sort of shit everywhere.
Most people don't know how to fight at all. Even kids in high school that wrestled were for all intents and purposes, being trained to fight and there are videos of wrestler kids pulling some shoots on another kid that wanted to fight them and totally destroying them because they were trained in some way to fight via grappling.
>>30176111
>wide hips
>flat ass
A shame
>>30176113
nignoggers aren't scary if you have any formal training in CQC by instructors.
>>30176115
Yup. Power law distribution strikes again.
>>30176120
>>30176132
Its all the angle, show her standing and she will have a flat ass
>>30176076
true, you have to research the classes and try not to get retarded instructors.
and also what you can take away from the class and make your own
>>30176113
the first thing most training would teach you that situational awareness is paramount and to avoid situations where you might find yourself needing to use the training.
>>30176113
>When's the last time you walked through a black neighborhood tough guy
>implying anyone sane would live anywhere near one
>>30176094
>so you'd get more powerful much faster
>>30176159
ok dude
so if you will gladly post a blacked out but time stamped DD-214, alongside a blacked out civilian training certificate or bill of sale, then we will ALL KNOW
that you are not completely and utterly full of shit and speaking out of turn.
>>30176091
12 pound triggers, like those required by NYPD, don't help.
>>30176249
this. those DAK sig's really don't help.
>>30176208
sure, allow me to go hunt down all my paperwork and certs and arrange it all so I can satisfy the anxiety of an anonymous internet kommando....just wait right there
>>30175702
>>30175770
He's a corrections officer, not a full blown LEO. I am a nurse in a prison and I chew the rag with a lot of CO's, and not one of them has ever fired in the line of duty. Mainly because 99.9% of the time they are unarmed.
>>30176208
Eight years of goju-ryu, here, from back when karate was still cool. Avoidance and awareness were big on the evening class soapbox series our instructor liked to give. "Train for the worst and work to never use it" is a common maxim
>>30175770
>CO thinking he is a LEO
lmao
>>30175640
i shot 90 rounds through a M9 during Officer Training School. 45 to practice, 45 to qualify. one poor guy only had like 3 hits on paper - and they were all from the red hat seeing if his pistol worked.
the only other person who failed that i knew of was a girl who always managed to be glammed up with perfect makeup. probably 8/10 face, 4/10 body. i didn't understand it.
>>30175640
basic training marksmanship training and shooting on my own for practice from what i learned.
>>30175750
make some military friends and go shooting together and ask them questions
Oh, God. This could take a while. I'll just list better classes:
Handgun II at both a local and state level (mainly unorthodox positions)
Handgun III at both a local and state level (mainly advanced movement)
Vehicle Borne Ops (training for if engaged from a vehicle)
Fugitive Investigations w/ US Marshals had a large firearms section with the 3 day building clearing section
Carbine II (unorthodox positions)
Carbine III (advanced movement)
Active Shooter II & III (more building clearing)
Haley Strategic LE Performance Package (cool stuff)
Haley Strategic Team Tactics
>>30176751
And speak for yourself when discussing cops and their poor marksmanship...
>>30175804
Niggers nig out, realize they wasted the beginning of their lives, enlist because they have no choice, are braiwashed and trained to kill, think they have achieved something because they can point a gun at things, get old, leave the military - and realize they are still niggers and no one has started caring about them in the last 15 years.
>>30176751
And also, 3 days is spend on firearms in the academy and then you must qualify yearly by shooting better than 75%. Which is stupid to me. If you can't be bothered to train yourself better than that, you can't be bothered to survive. There are all sorts of training opportunities out there and at most departments, just put a letter in. They will send you!
I was a conscript for 14 months, so absolutely fucking nothing.
>>30177145
In my state it's actually 5 days though, but 3-5 days is common.
>>30177158
What country are you living in?
13 years, 1 PARA.
>>30179174
Shit tier in Yurop.
>>30175934
>SOTG training course
Fucking loved those two weeks. Those guys are a trip and I learned a lot of good shit.
Time on the range and some 3gun are the only forms of "training" I've ever had.
>>30176094
>thinks private courses are better than military training
>thinks doing a twenty hour course makes you as good as four year 03xx with combat experience
>thinks a sixty hour course is the same as the recon/SF/buds training pipeline and all the grueling hours of muscle memory building that go with it
>>30175702
I'm a Corrections Officer. I work inside of a prison
When in the prison, we're completely unarmed. All I normally carry are cuffs and a radio, my facility doesn't even get OC spray or Tazers.
The only time we're armed is when in the patrol car, the tower, or out for something like taking an inmate to the hospital.
There's no real need for us to have tons of training, when the chance of us seeing a weapon is so minimal.
If you get on the tac squad though, you get monthly firearms training.
basic handgun
basic rifle/carbine
no long range stuff we don't even have anythign past 50 yds indoor or outdoor. Its something I really want to get comfortable with along with reloading.
>>30175934
>combat hunter
man didn't that shit die already?
Always stuff getting replaced when a new general wants to add something.
The stupidest course ever was some small unit course they had the "ncos" teach ran by the boot lts so it was in house incestual training to quote pat mcnamara. Got some dicksucker who never went to combat teaching some boots a course run by a boot lieutenant
>>30176751
Are the ones without a training company listed done by your dept. or are you just omitting the name for privacy's sake?
>>30176544
I know a POG or two, but they aren't of much help.
>>30175761
Wow. Looks like you dropped the soap this morning. What are you a Trump supporter too?
>>30176751
>>30180712
Interested in knowing, as well.
>>30180712
Other than the class with the Marshals and the HSP classes, they're all my agency or another local agency.
>>30183331
I take that back. The Active Shooter classes were FBI, though they were taught by local agency guys assigned to FBI task forces rather that actual agents.
>>30176529
>>30176392
Correction Officers in most jurisdictions are fully sworn peace officers, and have full powers of arrest on and off duty. To call them "not real" or not law enforcement is completely ignorant. Their job is different from policing, but is equally as important and is a critical part of the criminal justice system. Go inside and fuck with one and see what happens to you; they are law enforcement.
>>30183538
Fugitive Task Force anon here,
I never said anything negatice and appreciate the job you guys do. I had to work in the jail for 6 months prior to going through the academy and would not want to make a career out of it. You feel locked up too. 12 hours in a concrete box sucks. That said, I never had an ounce of firearms training in the jail and was dissuaded from interfering in any off duty incidents prior to being mandated. It's been 7 years since I worked in a jail so maybe stuff has changed or maybe your jurisdiction/state/whatever is cool with it where mine wasn't. I've been on patrol for 4 years, spent 1.5 years as a gang/intel detective, and now a year on a Fugitive Task Force. I can see this being different id you worked in a prison though. Do you work in a jail or prison?
>>30183643
Negative*
>>30175640
Lots of heavy weapons training, a bit of m4 and m9. Tdy and such.
>>30175640
I went to my schools pistol rifle club and for a semester practiced and shot 3 postion small bore.
Going to do a appleseed and NRA personal protection in the home, and maybe a course with my buddies on defensive shotgun use
>>30175640
Military training, some paid private instruction, a fuck ton of unpaid private instruction from a guy way more operator than myself.
Going into LE soon, so expecting more.
>>30183643
Usually state powers trump those at the county or municipal level, and in my state they most certainly do.Prison is generally as you describe it, but with much greater faculty and opportunity. Granted off duty incidents are not desired, but the fact of the matter is that they're potentially going to happen given the size of the agency. Only a few days ago, an officer received a package outside their residence which contained explosives, causing him to be hospitalized. Truly, carrying is more for personal protection than enforcement, but on the street there's always going to be a time where one may witness something heinous or see another officer in need of assistance and its another asset to the residents of that community.
Those cops that have the attitude that its a shit job, or its below them need a reality check. Its equal but different, its care, custody and confinement, and nothing but.
>>30183538
I'm the first guy who commented about getting the 3 days of training. I work in a closed security female prison, which is the biggest prison in the state. Sometimes, it's enjoyable working there, other times I hate it. It mostly depends on where you are in the prison, and who you're working with at the time.
>>30183831
Its very rare in corrections that someone is going to be shooting back at you. Not everyone is going to be working an emergency response team. When you have a baton, cuffs and a radio, you have to be ultra vigilant. Could you imagine a road cop with no jail or prison experience full stripped of all his gear except for what you have inside? He'd be fucked.
>>30183803
In my state, no power trumps the power of the Sheriff and his deputies, since they are the only LE given their power by the constitution, but I know what you mean. It is equal but different. At the same time, however, not many COs can step out on the streets and do what I do either, which was our Sheriff's concern.
>>30175640
Jesus, where to start?
>father retired and became a shooting instructor after navy
>first job at a range
>roughly 16 years pretty much daily
>uncounted classes, camps, contests
I have pretty much become useless these days, arthritis has ruined my grip. Otherwise, my experience does not mean shit to be honest, it's a hobby for me, I don't train FOR the purpose of actually applying these skills, which sets me apart from people I train and instruct for part time. I'm a hobbyist, some of these guys are training to literally apply the skills. Just because I'm well versed does not make me any more capable than 90% of the guys that are training specifically to protect themselves in inevitable combat situations. It's sad, I can see it in their eyes sometimes, the ones that are fighting their hardest in practice, knowing this is going to be real someday soon. Meanwhile I go home safely, my only other trek being a range and the grocery store on Fridays. Training is one thing, I have that, but I won't be needing it anytime soon, at least, hopefully not.
>>30184236
Oh otherwise:
NRA certified, some other random useless certifications. These days I mostly do SOPs and Vest Cam video critique. I occasionally travel for course setup and mentor startup ranges.
>>30184209
That makes sense that the sheriff would be higher. In my state, firearms are strictly controlled and state correction officers are among a small subsection of peace officers automatically exempt from civilian handgun registration and security licensing requirements, just like a police officer would be. Some county jails require their correction officers get pistol permits for any firearm that is not issued to them, whereas a police officer doesn't need to even bother. So someone working for say a city correctional department or a county jail is going to jump through more hoops to attain the same status, whereas the state agencies are written in automatically.
>>30184429
My state exempts all COs from permits as well. When did you recieve your 3 day training? Is your firearm issued?
>>30184506
I'm not the three day training anon
There is no three day training per say, its part of a live in academy, and you're taught how to Operate an AR-15, .38 Special Revolver and a 12 Gauge shotgun. No firearms are issued for personal use, except for those working in very special details or in parole. However it is allowed and acceptable for a personal weapon to be obtained for off duty carry.
fuck more than I can count. got sent to a couple of schools in the USA by the CF which was awesome training, and countless range time after that. on one deployment we did 6 week straight of 6 day a week gunfighter static and manoeuvre ranges, I didn't even want to shoot my civy guns for a while desu senpai
>>30176094
>You'll be WAY better off than anyone in the military
lmfao
>>30184824
He's a devil delta seal dog
>>30184602
Which regiment are you with?
>>30175640
y'all better not fuck with me I went to NAVMACS school in norfolk
>>30175640
NRA courses
>>30175640
About 36-40 hrs a year through work. Every couple years I'll try and take training on my own. Not all of it is firearms, I think treating trauma is more important than being slightly better at shooting. Carbine courses and shit are just for the lulz.
>>30176091
Training mitigates this you fucking summer fag.
NYPD have 13 days basic training.
12 pound trigger pull still makes it a real cunt to shoot tho.
>>30188894
In fact have a picture of the difference between factory standard and NYPD standard
Guess which is which.
Here's a fun fact.
Training and instruction don't make you good.
Practice makes you good. Structured, purposeful practice.
How many "classes" do you think someone goes through to be a USPSA Grandmaster? How much "instruction"? Little, if any.
You see this also in the fitness world. Motherfuckers go to all these Crossfit "certifications" to learn how to do olympic lifts or jump rope or some other bullshit. And they're still weak as hell.
The best thing 99% of you could do is start a structured dry-fire/live-fire training program, the same way that you would do Starting Strength or something. Metacognition and self-reflection are your friends.
>>30188894
Are NYPD officers as liberal as they seem? On the officer.com forums all I seem to see from them is stuff like "why do you need to own a rifle" and "we're the only ones around here who need to carry guns."
>>30188986
ETA applies to shooting.
Tactics, room-clearing, etc. are of course different - information based, although they too need practice to become efficient.
But learning shooting from going to a bunch of weekend classes is like playing an instrument or learning a martial art. Quality instruction only serves the purpose of guiding and speeding up the skills that you are developing on your own.
>>30188993
You should see the Trooper-NYPD beef, shit gets nasty when they leave the boroughs and go upstate for a little vacation.
>>30188993
Allot of them are cunts and get brainwashed by the PBA, you know the whole Sheep dog and we are the guardians type thing.
I love guns, I believe if I can have a gun you can have a gun (within reason like not a felon etc)
Also Officer.com is a weird site, allot of NYPD on there are old boys and where most likely in during "bad times"
>>30188986
>USPSA shooters don't take instruction
Wanna know how I know you're a fucking idiot? You take the training to learn how to practice properly then you go and practice in between your annual or biannual training. No one in the thread is saying you don't practice in between training you strawman arguing faggot.
>>30189055
Not the other guy but damn you are overreacting badly. There are way too many fat fucks with pimp AR15s trying to tell people what parts they need or what belt to buy. Then when you ask them what makes them an expert, they tell you who they've trained with, and if you try asking for some scores on common drills (FAST, el-prez, KD4 test, whatever) they clam up because they shoot like hot garbage despite 6 weekend classes over 2 years.
The other guy didn't even say not to take a class, just that most GMs take very little instruction, which jives with my experience.
>>30175647
Non at all and I am doing fine
>>30189104
The OP asked for formal training, a weekend with your 0311 cousin for $100 isn't formal training. He is arguing a straw man that training is unnecessary and all you need is to git gud.
>>30188986
>Motherfuckers go to all these Crossfit "certifications" to learn how to do olympic lifts or jump rope or some other bullshit. And they're still weak as hell.
while i agree with you that practice is paramount your assertion amounts to saying that professional instruction isnt requires to learn. Also that the skills required for puposefully operating firearms and applying tactics is somehow natural.
you have to be shown these things before they can be practiced just as you need to be shown how to work out to achieve specific goals
>>30189104
That's another thing if you are fat and your giving tactical advice than your just a joke.the only taken seriously was my high school tracher former Navy base swcc nugget collector and can do 100 rep set push up.dont take advice from the guy who can't even do 1 push up or pull up but has ak 2k rifle with another 1k of optics on it
>>30189217
Learning how to write so people can understand you is a useful skill to have.
>>30175640
read a book once (okay, mostly just looked at pictures), talked to friends about it frequently. go shooting maybe twice a year.oh yeah went through armorers school in military (26 years ago,really just a paper shuffle) and that's about it i think.
>>30189191
That's generally true but oftentimes people think they've learned more from a class than they really have. Many of the basic classes, even from really legit instructors, are just "here's how to grip, here's how to draw, here's how to reload, let's run some drills."
While it's best to learn how to grip a pistol in a class where someone can supervise you, you can also find videos of instructors like Mike Pannone, Shannon Smith, Bob Vogel etc all explaining grip. Obviously you don't get much feedback but video analysis, live fire testing, and self criticism will help you mitigate those issues.
And honestly some technique is not so hard that you need a shit ton of instruction. After reading Ben Stoeger's dry fire book, watching a shit ton of videos of him drawing his pistol, and dry firing maybe 3-4 times a week I took my draw (to sight picture, OWB kydex holster) down to 0.9s, a time a lot of people seem to think is impossible unless you're a genetic beast or someone who shoots 100000 rounds a year. That shit isn't hard.
>>30175640
I read the manual.
Off and on for 10 years, I don't mind sharing, if I'm not already on a watch list, then they suck at their job, wouldn't make much difference either way, I'm fuggin deadly m8 :DDDDDD
Trained with/by
>SEALS (retired)
>US Army Rangers (current)
>US Natl Guard (lol)
>US Marine Scout Sniper (retired)
>PMCs (current)
>DoD (former, guy was pretty creepy)
>Coast guard medics
>Lots of smaller fish
In charge of training
>Couple different SWAT teams
>US Natl Guard (lol)
>Private bodyguards
>>30189172
And a weekend with Paul Howe isn't going to make you even a B class shooter.
Look at that faggot Corey from Range Time. He's boasts about how he's taken like 40 tactical courses, and he still like a mid-level shooter.
I stopped taking classes when I realized my time and money was better spent reading books, reloading and running drills.
I know dudes that have taken every class under the sun and still shoot like shit, and I know guys who are Masters and Grandmasters who have done nothing but dry-fire in their garages five days a week for six months and shoot matches twice a month.
Classes teach technique, they can't teach skill.
>>30189336
>>30189336
>After reading Ben Stoeger's dry fire book, watching a shit ton of videos of him drawing his pistol, and dry firing maybe 3-4 times a week I took my draw (to sight picture, OWB kydex holster) down to 0.9s, a time a lot of people seem to think is impossible unless you're a genetic beast or someone who shoots 100000 rounds a year. That shit isn't hard.
Exactly, thank you.
Yet motherfuckers still have dozens of "what sights are quickest on target" threads, like it's something that's just going to happen with the right gear or technique.
>>30176111
Yes
I was considering taking a handgun class to help me suck less ass, but that shit's expensive.
A few hours with ex military instructors.
Hundreds of hours of practice for idpa comps.
>>30189372
>straw man
>>30176091
>because an adrenaline dump makes your hands shakey and tour fingers not work
No, it doesn't do that all? Why do people keep saying this, have you never had an adrenaline rush in your life? The shakes and twitches don't come on until after the situation is over and you start to calm down.
>>30189528
Nope practice pistol shooting is the only wat
>>30189035
Don't think I've ever seen any Trooper-NYPD friction. Then again most of the interactions I've seen have been retired NYPD.
>>30189931
You realize nobody said not to get training, right? Just that training alone won't make you a good shooter.
>>30176091
>e reason police have shitty markmanship in a high stress situation is because its a high stress situation you dumb fucking mook
Explain why they have shitty marksmanship on the range then. Have you ever shot around cops?
>>30175640
Not sure what counts as "formal", as I've never worn a uniform.
There is a local school about 45 minutes from where I live, and I am a regular there. They are local police and competition guys, and are quite skilled. They also get tons of guest instructors, and I've taken a few of those.
All in all
Local School classes
Handgun 101 x 2
Handgun 102
Defensive Shotgun
Carbine 101
Carbine 102
Simmunition Class
NRA RSO class
Smaller Guest Instructor
Handgun under stress (shit tons of cardio before firing to simulate stress)
More Well Known
Masaad Ayoob Mag 40
Bob Vogel Hangun
Frank Proctor Handgun
Pat Macnama Carbine
Appleseed
I'm in no way shape or form a badass, but I've really enjoyed getting instruction and spending 1-4 days in a class. It really should be said though, that classes help a bunch, and I've learned a ton of great stuff, and gotten help in correcting mistakes, but it's all useless unless you practice, be it dry fire drills at home, or applying the lessons on the range.
This weekend I RSO'd a CWP class, and it never fails to amaze me how much stress and adrenaline that people deal with when just taking a simple draw and fire CWP class. It's like they are ready to carry a gun to defend themselves from a bad guy, but they literally start to crack while shooting under a timer.
I would strongly recommend that most shooters take a class, be it a quality local group, or a fancy big name instructor. It's fun as shit and you learn a bunch.
>>30190151
>>30188986
>good shooters don't need do classes
>git gud
>classes don't make you good
>structured and purposeful practice
>implying training doesn't give structure and propose to your practice
>implying that anyone before above post even mentioned classes shouldn't be accompanied by regular practice
>>30189372
No, but a week with Paul Howe and 6 months of practicing what you learned then another more advanced class followed by practice does. Rinse and repeat to your desire.
What you're implying is something akin to soldiers don't need trained, just give them a gun and ammo and range time on the weekends and they'll get good.
>>30190881
>being this rustled over someone else's opinion
Lighten up, will ya? You're already reaching so hard to try and find offense in what others write.
>>30190920
>spouts retarded opinion and then doubles down
>roflmao don't be so rustled
>>30190881
Somebunny's assflustered.
The competition shooting world is filled with guys who git gud by practicing at home and posting on the internets. You can literally watch this happen through their training blogs.
>>30190932
>not even that guy
What I'm saying is that most peopl have an inflated ratio of training time to practice time. How many hours of training does Vogel do a year, versus how much does he practice? He shoots around 25000 rounds a year and dry fires around 10 times that. For him to take 1 class or 2 classes is barely a drop in the bucket compared to his actual practice routine.
>>30190932
Not even me, but how's this for doubling down:
Smart people can comprehend and process information from books and video, and apply proper physical self-awareness and meta cognition to continually re-asses their progress and work on their weaknesses.
>>30189336
Good points, and thanks for the recommendation.
It's been my experience (in things besides shooting) that getting some hands-on, real-time feedback from somebody who knows what they're doing is definitely valuable, but I agree that that's going to be the tip of the iceberg.
>>30189336
>>30192102
Are there any good sources on dry-fire training for carbine/rifle?
>>30192119
look up books on amazon by ben stoeger, brian enos, dave seeklander - search "dry-fir" and "refinement and repetition"
>>30175745
Thanks for making it easy to kill you and steal all of your shit.
>>30189528
>that shit's expensive
Is a few-hundred dollars too much for you?
>>30192119
I concur with >>30192672 on pistol. If you're willing to let yourself be put on a mailing list, Mike Seeklander's competitive pistol book is free right now if you sign up on his website. He also has carbine books but I am not an expert on long gun stuff so that's a bit out of my lane.
>>30192119
>>30193472
Also, I just realized you only asked for carbine stuff. My bad. Honestly the general principles are very similar. If you adapt the drills in the Stoeger dry fire book to carbine I think you will be reasonably successful. Do a little looking for reduced size targets that are appropriate for rifle distance (appleseed should have some) or make your own.
>>30191211
Smart people realize books and instructional videos are supplemental to proper training and that they aren't SMEs when beginning a discipline. It's "proper practice makes perfect" not "practice makes perfect." An amateur doesn't have the necessary experience or skill set to be self aware of ingrained mistakes they are making. Those that do, "naturals," are a rarity. Most people require training and seeking training is the conventional wisdom.
>>30191075
>Rob Vogel
Oh, you mean the competitive shooter who is also a police officer and a member of a SWAT team? You mean that guy doesn't have firearms training?
Aside from his training as an officer, you don't think he didn't sit down with better shooters when he was starting out and have them instruct him, show him what he's doing wrong and how to get better?
>>30175640
Zero
I put a lot of time into researching techniques, improving mine, and getting to the range, but I've never taken a formal class.
>>30191075
You kind of reiterated my point I made here >>30190914 so yeah, glad we're on the same page.
>>30176159
>the first thing most training would teach you that situational awareness is paramount and to avoid situations where you might find yourself needing to use the training.
>please don't get into a situation that shows you how much money you've been wasting at my classes
>am okay with carbine, decent with pistol, pretty good with shotgun
>see some of the people posting in this thread and figure that come shtf I might as well just off myself because there's no chance of defending my cans of beans
>>30195707
Bob Vogel has since retired from the police and is now a full time competitive shooter and an instructor himself. And honestly, I highly doubt his department training was of any serious benefit to him once he got past the beginner stages of his progress. A lot of police firearms instructors complain that they can't cover anything advanced in in-service-training because there's always a handful of shitbags who need all the help they can get just to pass qual, and then everyone else is stuck listening to the exact same discussion of how to grip, draw, etc for the twentieth time. Also Vogel's draw technique and grip technique are pretty crazy compared to a lot of other shooters, he does some weird shit that I can't recall anyone else teaching, and definitely wasn't taught by his department.
Ben Stoeger used to be a part-time cop, but he definitely didn't become a national champ because of his cop training. Again you can easily count up his round count and his dry fire and I bet you whatever training he once had is under 1% of his total shooting. Furthermore a lot of his technique is not what people are teaching conventionally especially in police/tactical circles, hence all the controversy about the index draw or whatever.
Regarding videos, I think shooters have a slightly irrational distaste for learning technique off video. If you can learn proper squat and deadlift form off video you can probably learn to grip and draw a gun off video. Obviously video can't really teach you stuff like shot calling, which requires experience, but some stuff is very monkey-see, monkey-do.
>>30189172
He's right tho. Boy, you sure are mad.
>The OP asked for formal training, a weekend with your 0311 cousin for $100 isn't formal training.
Neither is going to a shooting match every month and spending six hours hanging around bullshitting with other shooters. But spending a lot of time around quality shooters, watching them, and talking about shooting, can make you a hell of a lot better.
Quality shooters, though. Like Master level. Hanging out at your local gun range doesn't qualify.
>>30188894
It is fuckin weird imagining an NYPD LT on /k/, but I guess that's the age we live in.
We're 6.5 lbs trigger pull here. Can't imagine nearly double that. Fuckin' New England, man, but even we don't have it that bad.
Stay safe brother
