What will it be replaced with?
>>30167867
Same weapon without the absolutely retarded magazine port. The way FN made the damn thing was rock solid then the good idea fairy shat all over it.
>>30167888
You're an idiot. The mag port is fine. Try using ball and not blanks on it.
MK46 would be my guess.
>>30167907
Nah. Likely the LSAT. The Mag port is fine.
>>30167905
>You're an idiot. The mag port is fine. Try using ball and not blanks on it.
Not the guy you're replying to, but it's true that the mag port is a superfluous feature. Sounds good on paper, but it's so rarely used in the field.
The russians fell into the same trap though. They just drafted a request for proposal of a LMG which needs to be belt fed, but needs to be capable of taking mags as well.
>>30167970
It doesn't hurt the gun so it should stay. What should happen it the qualification course for SAW should incorporate a few 30 round magazines to dispel the fiction that the gun will fail constantly with magazine use.
Hopefully the MG3
>>30167970
Any pics of drawings of this LMG yet? The Russians seem fine with all the PKMs and PKPs they are swimming in.
>>30167993
I wish. It would be pretty cool and would BTFO that british faggot.
Fun fact, it is in use in the Canadian military.
>>30167867
m4a1 with a bipod and drum mags
>>30167970
>The Russians fell into the same trap though.
Not necessarily. It would be a real boon for them because their logistics aren't near as good as the US, meaning they are far more likely to use the feature.
>>30167988
>It doesn't hurt the gun so it should stay.
It makes it more complex and heavier. For something so rarely used, one needs to question if it should stay.
>What should happen it the qualification course for SAW should incorporate a few 30 round magazines to dispel the fiction that the gun will fail constantly with magazine use.
With decent quality mags, it works fine. Except that the rate of fire goes up to retard level high. Means you dumped a mag with probably fairly little effect on target.
Besides, by the time you need to grab mags from squad mates because you ran out of belts, you can probably pick assault rifles off the ground.
>>30168008
>Any pics of drawings of this LMG yet?
Not as far as I know.
It's just a request for proposal atm.
>The Russians seem fine with all the PKMs and PKPs they are swimming in.
Well, from what I've read they intended to replace the RPKs with PKPs. However, it seems now they had a change of heart.
That said, the PKM/PKP doesn't seem like it's going away any time soon. It's afaik meant as an intermediate SAW style LMG.
>>30167867
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
>>30168082
I thought the PKM/PKP was the Russian equivalent to the M240 and the RPK sort of did the equivalent role as both the M249 and the M27 IAR.
>>30168052
>It makes it more complex and heavier.
The material used to make the magazine well isn't even half a pound.
>With decent quality mags
I've used old black follower mags and managed to fire them without issue. The only issue ironically is PMAGs in my experience, even then the weapon will expend the magazine, but the bolt face with shatter the top portion of the spine of the magazine.
>Besides, by the time you need to grab mags from squad mates because you ran out of belts, you can probably pick assault rifles off the ground.
Or your squadmates could not be dead and hand you to them while alive.
>>30167988
But it's not fiction it's true. The 249 is dog shit to me, I went to my platoon sergeant and requested to change that pile of dog shit out for a 240 and my request was granted.
>>30168052
>withe decent quality mags, it works fine
On most of the more popular polymer mags, the saw will attempt to chamber the entire follower on empty, and I've seen it succeed multiple times.
>>30168090
unga bunga
me no need better weapon
solid rock to throw good
>>30168107
Thats an issue with M249s being beat to hell with no replacements issued. And Lazy as fuck armorers not headspacing, firing pin testing, barrel erosion testing and conducting proper PM.
Same thing, but with lighter materials.
>>30167970
>>30168008
This one?
>>30168175
They called it Kord-5.45 or something
>>30168100
>I thought the PKM/PKP was the Russian equivalent to the M240 and the RPK sort of did the equivalent role as both the M249 and the M27 IAR.
Yes, but the russian army has stopped purchasing new RPKs. They decided to let it die out and were supposedly going to replace them with PKPs.
>>30168104
>The material used to make the magazine well isn't even half a pound.
And? It's still extra weight on an already heavy gun.
>The only issue ironically is PMAGs in my experience, even then the weapon will expend the magazine, but the bolt face with shatter the top portion of the spine of the magazine.
There's a few versions of PMAGs which are out of spec for everything except AR15s.
>Or your squadmates could not be dead and hand you to them while alive.
Seriously, I've spoken with MANY SAW gunners. US Marines, Rangers, etc. They all said they never heard of any actual engagement where the feature was used.
>>30168107
>But it's not fiction it's true. The 249 is dog shit to me, I went to my platoon sergeant and requested to change that pile of dog shit out for a 240 and my request was granted.
The US military decided not to purchase long term maintenance kits, because they know better than FN-H how to take care of their LMGs.
It's hardly surprising they act up after all the abuse.
>>30168100
It is but the PKM is light as shit so they just use it in place of the RPK alot
>>30168218
>It is but the PKM is light as shit so they just use it in place of the RPK alot
Still lower ammo count per weight though.
Zastava made a 5.56x45mm PKM. Too bad it never went anywhere. I sure would like to try it out.
>>30168144
This more than anything. People are dumb and don't get the parts replaced even if you do all the work for them and all they have to do is sign it and turn it in. Also if it malfuntcions, it's somehow your fault because you didn't clean it properly. I actually made friend with our unit armorer and he helped me out since our company one was lazy. I never had a malfunctionafter that.
>>30168260
The Army needed to renovate weapons maintenance. Maybe make it an MOS like the Chair Force does.
>>30168189
Its only for SF, who assault buildings with terrorists in it.
>>30168254
7.62x54 or 7.62x51 is better than 5.56 or 5.45.
Thats why Pecheneg (PKP) or PKM is now instead of RPK in Russia.
>>30167867
Actual machinegun, this shit is literally belt-fed SMG.
Now that "single calibre across the entire platoon" meme died, there's no obstacle for it.
>>30168273
Armorer ie small arms repair is an MOS
>>30168431
Isn't it a lateral retain for your unit and not something you can sign up for on your contract?
>>30168420
>fires an intermediate cartridge
>saying its literally an SMG when it literally isnt
>>30168462
Everything full auto below .50 BMG is SMG anon. You're not even going to stop a jeep with this shit.
>>30168090
It is broke though
>>30167905
Am I the only one who has managed to get the saw to run 2 full magazines of blanks through it?
>>30168657
Yes
>Trump becomes president
>Repeals NFA
>Replaces M4 and M249
>Millions of FA surplus floods the markets for pennies on the dollar
>Mass Fudd suicide as their collections are made worthless
Soon
>>30167970
NYET!
mag port is fine
>>30168717
>Trump
>repeal NFA
would be nice but won't happen
>>30168717
i want to believe brother
>>30168717
Trump 2016.
>>30167867
6.5mm CT
>>30168361
"Better" is a really subjective term and depends entirely on what your intended use is.
>>30168874
5.56 M60 when?
>please
>>30168903
>M60
Of look, a faggot that thinks the M60 was ever good.
>>30168820
I'm convinced well at least get suppressors removed from the list but FA would be great too
>>30167888
>>30167905
So like a 46 then
>>30168915
The Danes recently adopted an M60
>>30168894
Those are some pretty impressive weight savings. Have they got it going reliable yet?
>>30169286
Oh watch out the world beating danes bought the shittiest MMG out there.
>>30169337
Don't bully Denmark
>>30167867
We all know the other branches follow what the Marine Corps does.
>>30168657
My SAW wouldn't even keep mags locked in.
>>30168657
I threw my blanks to the bush monster and pretended to fire. Didn't have to clean your weapon after that way. Just turn it in to armory and go get a sammich while everyone else does.
>>30168218
I wasn't aware 16.5lbs empty/31lbs loaded with optic qualifies as "light as shit"
>yes I know it's lighter than the M240L, but that isn't used in a squad automatic role either
>>30170027
now look up the weight of 5.56mm SAWs
now look up the weight of other 7.62 NATO GMMGs
PKM is light, desu~
>>30170021
What did you just yell "PEW PEW PEW" really loudly?
>>30168717
>Trump becomes President
>Trump does whatever he wants
>everything becomes illegal and legal at the same time like a legal Schrodinger's Cat
>>30170180
No. There was 30 to 100 guys all firing their blanks on the range also. No one noticed because they were all "pew pew pewing". I was a Lance criminal sk8rboy.
>>30168052
Quality mags? I used nothing but good old stanags, and I have no complaints about reliability. Linked is obv preferable, but it's a handy feature.
>>30168215
Kek m8, the saw isn't that heavy.
>>30170150
1.1lb heavier than the heavy-barreled mk46, 1.7lbs heavier than the light-barreled mk46, and 2 ounces lighter than the mk48.
>>30168717
I think we should start a movement to add guns to the NFA Registry.
See if you follow my logic:
>only machine guns made before 1986 can be on the registry
>so that must mean you can still buy machineguns!
>lets add all the new machineguns to the registry so we know has machineguns!
>>30170220
>Trump tries to do anything
>Everything gets stalled in a Senate more focused on clusterfucking things up.
>Trump still things he's on The Apprentice
>Tries to fire the entire Senate
>Everything is live on TV
>>30168903
it's outdated, cool but severely outdated
>>30168657
No, the rest of these guys just sucked at their jobs.
Used to use mags of ball and blank all the time, just pull pack on it like a side mounted VFG
>>30168215
The only instances where ive heard of a saw gunner going dry was from my first platoon sgt in the fleet, he said that during the first battle of fallujah his saw gunner in his squad ran dry more than a couple times. But this was also due to hectic supply, near non existant ROEs, and the tactical nightmare of house to house door to door fighting for weeks at a time.
I believe that he would try to carry 3 drums (600 rounds total) with a couple drums peppered throughout the squad.
and even then it wasnt all the time, and it wasnt every day but it was a very rare, very scary variable to adapt to.
I never got closer to running dry with my saw during even the most kinetic situations.
>>30168820
No it could definitely happen.
Once he finds out he can't get newly made gold plated Mk48s to shoot off the top of Trump Tower to celebrate.
But seriously, if his sons put in a good word and push a general "anti gun-ban" bill that overrides all gun control of that nature along with empowering the 2nd Amendment even further to make it clear against all infringements (by defining what infringements are) then yeah FA's coming back could happen off an oversight, getting overlooked by the national CC bill that will greatly make liberals shit bricks instead.
>>30169367
>>30169337
>>30169286
Danes are such Ameriboos.
Their Navy SOF also use pic related: an American successor to the Stoner 63 which we didn't adopt.
>>30170525
still 100% better presidency than under herr hildog
>>30171303
Maybe that guy just had an itchy trigger finger
>>30169427
The Brits tried this in the '80s and very quickly figured out it was fucking dumb, which is why the L86 LSW was effectively shitcanned and replaced by FN Minimis.
>>30171401
yeah and he was probably:
>a boot, therefore crazy nervous and robotically obidient
>in a perfect storm of factors that encouraged a huge amount of lead slinging
>still learning how to employ an automatic weapon effectively in the most intense and terrifying situation imaginable.
i mean shit a large amount of MOH, Navy Crosses, and Distinguished Service Crosses were awarded to pfcs and privates that just kept on doing what they were told waaayy past the point of reason.
>mfw the story of the machine gunner that cut down waves of japs after he was killed because his iron grip on the trigger kept the gun firing until it dry even after death.
>such moto boner
>>30169337
>Shittest
Nothing wrong with the M60e4+
>>30171408
Couldn't be that the l86 was just a giant piece of trash.
>>30167867
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqRNe_qTx7Y
i can dream
>>30168886
Because it's a gun, it's used for killing, bigger bullet kills better. U fuckin' stoopid double nigger.
>>30168657
Works fine, nobody ever screws the blank adapter on right so you get all these dumb complaints.
https://youtu.be/WzILN8xQrQQ
KAC Stoner LMG would be nice
>>30171408
They figured it was fucking dumb because the L86 is less reliable than a fucking INSAS.
>>30170433
it's feels anti-gun, so they should take the bait.
>>30167867
>M249
Probably the M60, RPK, PKM, Negev, or any other superior LMG.
>>30172544
This
>these faggots don't even hunt squirrels with a .460 rigby
>>30167867
in the U.S.? the M27 IAR, outside, no clue
>>30168012
Not, we use the 240 and 249, call em the c6 and c9 respectively.
>>30173144
Look up what's on your tanks.
>>30173144
See
>>30173241
You dumbass Trudeau fag.
>>30173241
That's rad as hell. It's only for the lend tanks inna afghanistan I believe.
>>30173345
>turdeau
What the fuck did you just say about me you little bitch? etc
>>30168874
Needs cheek riser on that stock to use the ACOG.
>>30170257
You're a sharp sk8.
>>30168109
The fuck did you expect? The weapon system is designed to take USGI mags, not PMags.
>>30171366
Looks pretty sexy
>>30168915
The m60e6 is breddy gud
>>30170021
This guy might make general or sergeant major some day.
>>30168717
>Millions of FA surplus floods the markets
>implying FN would ever let this happen
You can't even get surplus M9's due to Beretta's agreements with the military.
>/pol/fags and trump shills don't know how laws and politics work
what a surprise
>>30170021
>Not helping your mates clean their weapons when you are free
It's like you aren't even a fucking team.
>>30168189
>5.45 LMG
>>30168100
>nd the RPK sort of did the equivalent role as both the M249 and the M27 IAR
No.
You can't change the barrel of RPK.
RPK is just glorified heavy barrel rifle.
Russians soon realize this.
Since then they either use PKM if they really need those firepower and extra reach.
Or they just use plain ol' AK-74 instead.
>>30171303
Seems low. My standard loadout was 1000 rounds carried on my person. But then again, you said they had issues logistically
>>30168128
>rock posters
Stick win every time
>>30167922
>That is if someone actually commits to ammunition manufacture.
Not before all weapons become ceaseless.
>>30171303
Frontline in my country is 1600 rounds (most meant to be on the gunner). Why so low, is it because of the bad logistics or what?
>>30167988
Added weight and complexity for a questionably useful feature.
>>30167993
The MG3 is a GPMG, the subject is a SAW/LMG, the US already has the M240B for a GPMG, and it's a better gun.
>>30168090
It sort of is, the M249 is a great design, it's just that like the M9 pistols, most of them are all worn out and at the end of their service life.
>>30168082
The PKM/Pecheneg isn't a SAW, it's a GPMG, like the M240B, MG3 or M60E6, it's an entirely different role, and they're not going to replace it with the prospective 5.45mm SAW
>>30168107
>The 249 is dog shit to me
That's because you've never used one that isn't used up and in good shape.
Try an old beat up junker from any US Armory, and then try a brand new one straight from FNH, it's night and day.
>>30169337
M60E6 =/= Vietnam era M60E1
For a new GPMG, the Danes made a pretty solid choice.
>>30168915
It was shit until the E3 and E4 models
>>30175379
>Wanting an M9
Literally the last surplus gun I would buy
I bet you're a Cruzmissle faggot aren't you
>>30175379
>You can't even get surplus M9's due to Beretta's agreements with the military.
You don't fucking want them, they're worn out garbage, buy a new one like a normal person.
>>30175427
>Not knowing we are going to be at the armory for hours regardless of my actions
It's like youre a civilian who doesn't know how the Infantry do things
>>30168717
I emailed his campaign two weeks ago asking for details on his stance on NFA and the MG ban and they still haven't gotten back to me. They're probably worried I'll tattle to news outlets saying Trump wants to put short-barreled machine guns directly into the hands of vice lords and terrorists, so I can see why they'd brush me under the rug.
>>30168886
don't say that here!
>not convinced there exist a weapon that is superior in every use
>>30167867
A girl can dream...
>>30175972
>muh heat
>muh cost
Why are machineguns so heavy?
What are the parts in the modern LMGs/MMGs on the market today that could most use a reduction in weight?
>>30176190
Because of the heat requirementa and dutability needed.
Furniture realistically and readily
>>30175379
Thats not how it works, asshole. You think FN is sitting on a stockpile of full autos hoping ti sell them to civilians? What is FN going to do to stop them?
negev.
>>30176169
Barrel's quick change.
>>30168717
>implying fudds have full auto collections
I'm seriously starting to wonder where these newfags are getting their definition of fudd from.
>>30175661
Me put rock on stick. Now rockstick. Me king of fight.
>>30176190
>Why are machineguns so heavy?
Receiver and bolt has to be strong enough to handle abuse from heavy firing for long periods of time, as does the gas system (for the ones that run on gas)
The barrel has to be strong enough to last for a very high roundcount, and ideally should facilitate a fast and easy way to swap out barrels when in use, to let the previous barrel cool down, and to keep shooting with a cool barrel (so that's extra weight with the extra barrels)
Having a sturdy bipod is a good idea.
High volume of fire necessitates a high volume of ammunition, so you'll have to carry a lot of linked ammunition.
>>30176725
Ammo and extra barrels aren't the problem because they are necessities, but perhaps some compromises could be made to the barrels (swap more often) or some part of the structure that normally lasts for very long anyway (replace more often) so that the overall weight can be brought down.
Part of the problem with the 249 is that the military seems to have this pathological desire to get its infantry killed from super old guns that haven't had a part replaced since the day it was made. I'm sure that a less durable but very lightweight LMG would be workable so as long as it gets taken care of properly.
>>30176830
>the military seems to have this pathological desire to get its infantry killed from super old guns that haven't had a part replaced since the day it was made
It's called being stingy with money.
>I'm sure that a less durable but very lightweight LMG would be workable so as long as it gets taken care of properly.
Then you'd be wrong, look at the first M60, did alright at first but eventually became shit due to the poor construction, it didn't hold up at all for long use and the military used it for long despite this.
>mfw some autist goes full sperge about magazine fed machine guns
>they build some entire headcanon about why belt fed mgs are only competent on the field today because they can carry more ammunition in a more ergonomic method than the first general purpose machine guns
>still have these obsolete, theoretical advantages of magazine fed mgs in their head that they obsess over like a script
why do they get so triggered by the universal excellence of gpmgs?
it's actually a bit disturbing how some people could be so autistic.
>>30171366
>>30175026
>>30175395
Old and busted. This is what the production version currently looks like
If anybody in procurement had a working brain? Either the FN Mk 48 (literally an M249 scaled up to 7.62x51), IWI Negev NG7, or the MG5/HK121. Drop the M249, bring in a 7.62 gun to fill the SAW role, and replace the M240 with the General Dynamics LWMMG.
>>30175888
>That's because you've never used one that isn't used up and in good shape.
>Try an old beat up junker from any US Armory, and then try a brand new one straight from FNH, it's night and day.
Does Army or USMC even have any 249s that aren't beat up old junkers?
Unrelated question, why are SAW peep sights so much harder to use than M16/M4? They make my head hurt.
Do infantryfags ever affix bayonets anymore in 2010+?
>>30179014
>literally an M249 scaled up to 7.62x51
They already have a GPMG, it's called the M240B, they don't need another one, they're looking to get new SAWs you silly goose.
If they're looking to use a 7.62mm MG they'll use their M240Bs
>>30179308
I think there's some, like how there's still some M9s in good shape, but by and large, most of them are in a very sorry shape from a long time of use.
>>30177025
>universal excellence of gpmgs?
Not everyone agrees on that. Carrying big heavy shit around is a big price to pay for that GPMG firepower. Lots of militaries have gone to medium-power autorifles and LMGs instead, at least at the squad level.
>>30179334
>they're looking to get new SAWs
Since when? This is good news if true.
>>30179308
I don't want play the "muhreens is poor" card. We get a lot of good gear. But I think this is one of the areas budget does play a factor and Army generally will have newer ones.
I was a muhreen SAW gunner and some guys had decent ones but many were busted to shit.
And our bayonets were rusty dull Vietnam era pieces of shit that couldn't cut an MRE bag open. There were reports of guys attaching bayonets during Fallujah iirc.
>>30168431
>>30168449
it is an mos, but at the unit level it's just a 40 hour course with some hands on. they only let you do a few tasks in the arms room and they catch everything else at a semi annual inspection unless something comes up. wait times to get a weapon serviced can be longer than waiting for gauging for some stuff and some people take a few liberties with the manuals.
>>30179373
Nothing official yet, but they can't ignore it for much longer, it's basically M9 tier at this point and they're looking to replace those now.
>>30168628 This
.>>30167867 honestly I feel like the 240 scaled down just a touch would make a great saw. Yeah, I'm saying a 240 in 5.56. Because the quality is so much fucking better in them.
>budget is a factor
>the F-35 exists
These statements are mutually exclusive.
>>30180757
Link your post aspie.
Pretty sure you're talking to me but I'm not a fucking mind reader.
>>30180757
What is hilarious is you think you made some sort of argument.
>>30180785
Here is your (You) or maybe somebody else gets a (You).
>>30179424
>>30180805
Greentexting allows for arguments to be started in the most concise fashion while leaving the details for others to ponder. Just two lines really makes you think...
>>30168029
Does it hurt to be this retarded?
>>30168029
>there are people who genuinely think slapping a bipod onto an M4 and loading it with drums would be a good substitute for a real SAW
>they probably think the Beta C drums aren't dogshit
>they likely don't know what a quick change barrel is either
>>30180882
Buttblasted retard: the post.
>>30167867
hi point powered carbines
>>30168534
but 30 WILL stop a jeep or many forms of lightly armored vehicle
Stop trying to bait me
>>30167867
Bucky's gun in Civil War was the coolest shit I've ever seen. He basically uses a LMG like an assault rifle. Brilliant.
>>30176265
I haven't heard particularly positive things about them. They look nice though.
>>30167867
A gun that guns better.
>>30182472
No, it's not. The 249 can't run worth a damn from a STANAG.
>>30183407
Now that I think about it, maybe that had to do with it being old STANAGs with worn-out springs.
>>30179334
Mk 48 Mod 1 was fielded by the US Army briefly until they finished the M240L
It's trickled down to some other units as well
>>30183271
What have you heard? I've only heard that the US soldiers who've tried them like them a lot more than the SAW since its lighter and can actually use magazines properly
>>30167867
M27 IAR
>>30183407
you sure about that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8NBCPRnKF4
>>30183407
You're wrong.
>>30179014
>eplace the M240 with the General Dynamics LWMMG.
This. So much this. Surplus .338 Norma Mag when?
>>30183407
It did pretty well in that video >>30184627
Explain yourself.
We should replace it with a magazine fed gun
>>30188937
>>30188937
I'm guessing this is a marine that thinks if other branches pick up that dumb IAR he can feel less dumb.
>>30189072
IAR isn't so bad, in concept, it just doesn't make a fitting substitute for a real SAW.
>>30171366
>>30178602
holy shit
was looking for a pic of that Delta guy with their prototype Ultimax in some desert (Syria and recent I believe) but can't find it
>>30168717
>>30168820
You know the executive branch can simply choose not to enforce laws right? People forget that Trump doesn't need Congress to get what he wants done. Its even funnier that he will get Congress though.
>>30187442
a well maintained weapon will perform fine, the 249 suffers from the same stigma the Beretta 92 does. the army doesn't spend enough on maintaining their kit and thus has issues with equipment. the m9 and m249 are great weapons but like any weapon if not properly maintained they will shit the bed
>>30168144
Dis nigga be right. The SAW has a sheet metal receiver that's rated at around 100k live rounds. But most of them had a lot more blasted through them and then there's the blanks which aren't going great things to guns either. Failure to procure new SAWs is indicative of Big Army like to spend money on the big ticket items first but things that Joe D. Grunt, 11 Bulletstopper needs tends to be put on the back burner.
>>30189880
>the army doesn't spend enough on maintaining their kit and thus has issues with equipment
It's not just that, the M9 and M249 are both just really worn out, remember that these guns, while seeing some maintenance, haven't actually been replaced since Operation Desert Storm
