Why are Germans incapable of winning long-term wars?
>>30165222
Thy don't have a mass of resources to call on.
At least not to Russia or Britian levels.
>>30165222
They always bite off more than they can chew
Extreme nationalist sentiment can lead a country to believe it's stronger than it is
Prussian and later German military doctrine was always focused on quick, deciding, preemptive attacks in order to make the war as short as possible because due to their lack of resources and natural borders they would always end up getting bled out eventually.
>>30165363
Okay then
Why were the Germans so bad at quick, deciding, preemptive attacks?
>>30165366
Old generals that can't into new warfare
>>30165366
But they're good at it, 1866, 1871, 1939/40 it worked great, 1914 they were stopped only 80km before Paris.
Lack of: coal, oil, cotton, wool, iron, rubber, copper, nickel, lead, glycerol, cellulose, mercury, aluminum, platinum, antimony, manganese, asbestos, mica, nitric acid, sulfur. You know, critical materials necessary to produce energy and sustain industrial output to outlast opponent in prolonged war. Stuff you use to make military hardware, ammunition, equipment and explosives. Demographics and mobilization ability are also important.
In the end, nation's strength is always determined by two measures: the amount of natural resources and the capacity for war.
>>30165366
They really weren't, it's just that it doesn't matter how good of a fighter you are if you're fighting against 10 people at the same time. Fighting should ideally be the least important part of war.
>>30165366
they're good at it, but when you're fighting empires it's the long term that counts.
>>30165366
They were devastating in their tactics. However these tactics can't overcome the sheer number of resources the Allied powers had at their disposal. They come close but could never finish off their enemy.
>>30165222
the same reason they thought the Tigers and Panthers were good tanks.
>>30165222
why are you incapable of fighting 6 niggers at one time?
>>30165465
But I'm not, as long as I've got my six friends at my hip with me
because they are subhuman
>>30165473
I guess the seventh round is your enemy
>>30165489
Always save one for yourself, bro.
>>30165473
yeah but there were like 70 million niggers and they had guns too
>>30165505
Sounds like my kind of Friday night
>>30165474
slavic subhuman pls go
>>30165222
Depends on war, really.
In WW1 it was all Prussian militarism and in-fighting. They could've actually do something against Russia in 1916 but they've had to waste manpower on Verdun and Somme. So they've got Brusilov offensive and Russians continuing to fight for another year, on top of enormous loses in experienced soldiers.
Then when they've actually did the spring offensive in 1918 they've quickly dropped the initial direction(cutting off BEF/Belgian Army from Dunkerque - aka race to the sea v2) and were just moving clue less here and there in the general direction of Paris.
In WW2 it was plenty of other problems but mostly going dipshit on several separate occasions.
Like look at Stalingrad. You've had entire 6th army in the area, along with plenty of mechanised vehicles while the flanks were defended by Hungarians and Romanians, who were under-equipped. They could've do otherwise - throw the grunts into meatgrinders where lack of equipment matters less while using the mechanised/motorised force for securing the flanks as the Soviets would outnumber them anyway, so they needed to stay mobile and answer the attacks by concentrating their force locally, but no, it didn't happen. And then they've got attacked from the flank, regardless at whatever quality Hungarians/Romanians like to attribute to their armies - it didn't work for them so well - and they were routed, as a result the 6th army was completely cut-off and ultimately surrendered.
That's on top of terrible intelligence - they've missed the existence of 500k soldiers in Kursk area. Which means that aerial reconnaissance was either not done at all or simply ignored.
>>30165222
>"Poor old Germany. Too big for Europe, too small for the world." - Henry Kissinger.
>>30165584
German WW2 intelligence was pretty much filled with corrupt people though
>>30165597
The Abwehr hated Hitler and went out of their way to fail at every opportunity.
Admiral Canaris literally told Franco to show Hitler a little backbone and as a result Franco didn't permit troop access into Spain to attack and seize Gibraltar.
>>30165597
This. Abwher command realised pretty early that operation meatgrinder was a lure, but they decided to go full retard with it anyway, and told Hitler it was legit.
>>30165338
This
If Hitler wait a little more with the attack of Russia maybe the results were different
>>30165584
WW1 was mostly von Kluck being a complete retard in 1914
>>30165681
It's kinda sad Germany didn't executed operation Seelöwe
>>30165700
Because you want to see the channel filled with corpses once the royal navy swapped in and cuts them off?
Autism level micro-managment of Hitler and Auftragstaktik of High Command didn't mesh well.
>>30165222
1. Lack of industrial capacity and resources.
B. Being surrounded by large continental powers
iii. Belief in the specious stereotype that Germans are inherently efficient, and will get the job done regardless.
>>30165705
Churchill was pretty adamant that Britain never surrendered, do you think Britain would have tried to pull a Japan if invaded, it was defiantly patriotic enough at the time
>>30165770
No because the RN would have just swept the channel clean over and over
>>30165222
Because they can't into logistics necessary for a global conflict.
North Africa left them without oil.
Bombings left them without industry
Really, they lost production power even as allied and soviet production ramped way the fuck up.
We could hit them at home, they couldn't.
>>30165841
Britbong, you're tooting your horn mighty loud.
>North Africa left then with no oil.
If North Africa was necessary, then Hitler would have sent more then a handful of divisions and a moody general to that front. Africa was a favor to Italy. Germany got most of her oil from Romania and synthetic plants. It was not until the last weeks of the war that the anglo-american bombing campaign touched them
>bombing left them with no industry
That's why production went up and at the end of the war it only affected 4 percent of their total industry according to Speer. Even into the first months of 1945 it was projected to be almost equal to the year before that.
The problem was lack of manpower to deploy the equipment and fuel to use it. Once their fragile dependence on Romania collapsed it was over. Speer noted that at any point where the Allied airforces could commit to a 2 week straight campaign over Romania, the war would be over much sooner.
Why are Americans incapable of winning long-term wars?
>>30166180
>>30166187
Yeah, being a bunch of uneducated racist hicks probably has something to do with it.
>>30165222
Because they're led by leaders that constantly shit on them. Hitler only managed to bring Germany back on its feet using short-term economic solutions only to plunge the country into war again. Even on the first years of WW2, Germany was already using food stamps to feed its people.
>>30165474
This, Hitler admitted it before rage-quitting.
>>30166187
>stahlhelm
4th (or 5th Alien/Moon/Space) Reich confirmed.
>>30166191
good luck fighting a war with woman in your troops.
And a shitload of people from different nations who only came to your country for a wellfare check.
>>30166180
The media shows one dead soldier and all the populous suddenly things war is bad and bring the troops home.
>>30166226
Agreed. The problem is the exact opposite of 2nd and 3rd Reich Germany. Lack of national will to do the hard stuff, at least when a media is capable of sending direct unfiltered access to the American people.
Could you imagine modern American journalism was present in ww2?
>>30166206
>>>/r9k/
post your military id
>>30166248
If they were present in WWI, there wouldn't have been a sequel. One embedded reporter with a live feed choking to death from mustard gas would be the end of that national support.
>>30166248
>>30166226
Why is this a constantly spouted meme? The Iraq and Afghanistan wars went on just fine despite Le Media Coverag :^) and there's still forces there now.
>>30166288
A coalition of western Industrialized nations vs a bunch goat fucking extremists and by 2008 most of the countries were pulling out of the conflict zone after a dozen+ dead with Presidential candidates campaigning on pulling the troops out for the people.
If that is the case for fucking Taliban and Al Quaeda, then what about fighting the Wehrmacht or the Imperial Japanese, or even the fucking Italians?
Easy access to the stench of war kills resolve.
>>30165222
Germans go to war like knights go to tournaments. Chivalry, honor, respect of rules, etc.
Brits and Russians on the other hand go to war like for street fight. The only thing that counts is victory. They fight as dirty as possible to win.
>>30166346
>>Germans go to war like knights go to tournaments. Chivalry, honor, respect of rules, etc.
You can't be serious
>>30166346
...Even as a self-confessed Wehraboo, I find this is not at all reality. Please don't pursue it. You'll only draw the Britbongs and communists.
>>30166346
>Germans are honorable.
Yes and medieval times were the most respectful time for combat.
>>30165489
Yeah, he's just an acquaintance, friend of a friend, you know.
>>30166346
>Germans go to war like knights go to tournaments. Chivalry, honor, respect of rules, etc.
>>30166466
well, it's not like they were at war with the jews
>>30165435
The panthers were good tanks you hooked nose kike. The Tigers were shit though.
>>30166366
>>30166378
>>30166466
Schlomo go home.
Also, it's absolutely not in favor of Germany. War is a dirty business.
Fact is that Germans had a certain vision of how wars should be fought and how not. Ex. The SS trained classic boxing, while the Brits teached the Fairbarn & Sykes combat method, which the Germans called gutter fighting. Of all nations, the Brits were probably the craftiest and dirtiest of all.
>>30166466
>>Germans go to war like Smash Bros. players go to tournaments. Scrubbery, ""honor"", demanding anything that beats them be banned, etc.
>>30166466
Honor only applies when fighting worthy opponents, not taking care of pests.
>>30165222
They are winning the war on Germans though
>>30165584
>having your inferior allies make the primary offensive effort
No.
You don't use mechanized equipment to hold flanks, you use them for breakthroughs.
>>30165473
>swing out wheel nugget
Штo?
>>30167017
Correct
>>30167002
This is true, honor, especially in the forge of combat was upmost in the mind of the German soldiers.
From a young age they were instilled with a respect for strength and honour among battle brothers, and this can always be seen in their combat behavior. No matter how ferocious and big the battle the Germans would always win with honour, pride, and strength.
*Taught. "The Brits taught the Fairbairn & Sykes method."
And damn near a third of you Cheeto-dust-covered proto-autists are in, or have actually graduated a no-shit above-high-school college/university.
What the fuck is wrong with you people? Do you like sounding stupid, on purpose?
Fucking illiterate scumbags.
>>30167182
>No matter how ferocious and big the battle the Germans would always win
Anon I have some bad news
because this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl46Eh_OBhg
>>30166346
>Germans go to war like knights go to tournaments. Chivalry, honor, respect of rules, etc.
>>30166466
>Muh juice
>Muh 8 gorillion
But seriously though, these were the people that conquered France and immediately took all their art and treated their country like a summer home, made capitulation humiliating for no reason, and then forced children to fight at the end of the war.
>>30165366
Yeah bro they're so bad they can't completely conquer the entirety of western and eastern yurop and north africa within two years with next to no failures at any point
>>30167256
> forced children to fight at the end of the war
well, can you blame them? I mean, the Russians were coming.
>>30167280
No, you really can't. But it still is a "dishonorable and unchivalrous" thing to do
>>30167280
> the Russians were coming.
You know, if the Germans didn't treat Slavs like subhumans and force them into slave labour / murdered them by the millions, then the war would've proceeded much more calmly.
>>30165222
A few bad strategic choices. In both wars, especially the second they were not as prepared as people think.
The lack of long range bombers was a crucial factor.
Al they bite more than they could chew. War is just a means to an end. If They could have hold off to their conquests, and administer them correctly Europe would proabably be in a different place. better or worse?
I dont know.
>>30167037
Stalingrand was a point to take over, not to break through.
The prize here was the control over Volga and cutting important node in Soviet railway system. Everything further east is basically worthless, on the southeast you've had oil fields which were another prize of the campaign.
My point is that the only thing Germans achieved in trying to take over Stalingrad with 6th Army was leaving their flank exposed for inevitable Soviet counter-attack on said flanks. Now Romanians and Hungarians couldn't possibly hold their ground there(because of rudimentary field and anti-tank artillery) but they could've brawl with Russians on the streets of Stalingrad with minimal German help. Probably wouldn't achieve much more than Germans but they would free Germans to protect the motherfucking huge flanks of the salient they've created in that offensive which would certainly allow them to at least slow down the encirclement significantly.
And the Soviet attack on that part of the front, regardless of who would defend them was absolutely obvious because it allowed for relatively easy encirclement of German forces so it would be smart to not take too much risk.
>>30167303
but slavs are subhumans
>>30167013
Americans OP pls nerf, shotguns unblalanced noob weapons remove now.
>>30165841
The peak of bombing campaign marks for the peak of German wartime production.
Strategic bombing is overrated(that being said - IT HAD an influence, just not as big influence as other things had), Harris outside of his "let's bomb Dresden" idea was completely clueless but imo. the bombing make him the best airforce commander ever. Same goes for his American counterpart whoever he was.
>>30165222
Possession of a superb military machine lead them to underestimate the importance of correctly inserting themselves into resource reach military alliances. Perhaps due to unwillingness to share power with other world powers of the time.
>>30165473
So what your implying is Germany would have won if they had overwhelming destructive capability, like nukes? No shit...
>looks like the seventh one is for you.
>>30166970
>The panthers were good tanks
No
>>30167358
>the peak of German wartime production
Wasn't that because Speer finally took his head out of his ass in 43 and transitioned Germany to a full war economy?
>>30165222
The gist of it was that when Germany became Germany France, who was incredibly butthurt over no longer being the largest and most powerful nation on mainland Europe, worked with England and several other powers to keep Germany from getting access to colonial provinces like what everyone else already had and used to feed their own economies.
Fast forward to WWII and the closest they managed to do was to take over a lot of territory to draw resources from, but because they lacked the ability to get a number of vital resources not found in Europe(like rubber, and only the Allies could synthesize it) and the fact that, while they had one of the largest economies in Europe, it was dwarfed by that of the Soviet Union which was itself dwarfed by the industrial juggernaut that was the US.
>>30167182
I like to believe that all this honor shit true but I just can't. Looks good in movies, gets you killed in real combat. Honor doesn't mean shit if you're dead which unfortunately makes the dirtiest, craftiest warfare the smarter and better option.
>>30167002
>Of all nations, the Brits were probably the craftiest and dirtiest of all.
Hence SAS, MI6 etc having such a good reputation. The Brits very rarely have the power to win on land in europe, so resort to plots and subterfuge.
>>30167256
well then i guess the best thing to do is gass every single jew ever because of the action of portion of them.
this argument is litterally the exact same as SJW's saying colonialism happened at some point in the past so we have to import 6 gorrillian rapefugees as penance.
>>30165800
>the key to defeating the royal navy lied in the fact that every vessel had a preset kill quota. Therefore, I simply launched wave after wave of men into their weapons, until they reached their quota and simply shut off.
>>30167810
>brits very rarely have the power to win on land in europe
bless, he seems to be retarded. read up on your history. going back 700 years every time we see fit to go into europe we kick fucking ass. brit policy has always been to keep europe divided so no one is strong enough to cross the channel, other than that there's no point going in
>>30166338
People have more appetite for war if they perceive it as just. We haven't had a just war since 1954
>>30166970
>The panthers were good tanks you hooked nose kike.
French and Belgians disagree. And they've used Panthers for longer than Germans.
>>30167788
It doesn't mean the Germans couldn't into dirty warfare. Just, when not in combat, Germans were all about their pride and strength and discipline. While, despite their ra-ra-royalty crap, the Brits tend more towards "u mot m8?"
>thread full of jews
well what did i expect from /k/ikes
>>30165366
The Germans have always been fairly competent at the tactical level.
However, they always fail at the strategic level.
>>30166206
>good luck fighting a war with woman in your troops
>>30166180
Because there was no way the United States could have won in Iraq or Afghanistan without permanently occupying the country. Vietnam is debatable, but the US lacked the political will to make a military push into the North, and soon lost all strategic momentum as a result.
>>30168765
Fuck off back to /pol/
>>30167185
Learn how to link other comments to yours, you fucking imbecile.
>>30166970
>you hooked nose kike
>>>/pol/
>>30166346
>Chivalry, honor, respect of rules
>Germany
>>30168053
Big Book of War
>>30166346
Kill yourself.
>>30167491
No, it's because Speer took Germany's head out of its own ass.
Seriously, how fucked is your country that the man you go to in order to fix your war time production and economy is the dude who designs buildings?
>>30168947
Ze rules sagt wear your yellow star und go to camp. Sieg Heil.
>>30167358
Bombing could not knock out the entire German economy, that's impossible, even with the huge forces the Allies had at their
disposal. The allies tried to do this early on and couldn't do it.
What it could do, and later did, was knock out large percentages of specific industries, which the bombing raids did with great success starting from early 44.
> But with the attack of nine hundred and thirtyfive daylight bombers of the American Eighth Air Force upon several fuel plants in central and eastern Germany, a new era in the air war began. It meant the end of German armaments production
> ...
> After this attack our daily output of five thousand, eight hundred and fifty metric tons [of petroleum] dropped to four thousand, eight hundred and twenty metric tons.
-Albert Speer
You can say that the bombing campaign only destroyed 10% of Germany's industrial infrastructure, but that number includes 90% of your oil production and 60% of your locomotive production.
>>30166466
Why do people still post that shopp
>>30165505
>yeah but there were like 70 million niggers and they had guns too
Don't worry we have backup
>>30169867
Shit, what is this from?
>>30169882
South Africa
>>30169520
>dey dindu nuffin dey was good boys
>>30169931
If you can tell what that is you are lying to yourself
>>30170158
If you can't you shouldn't be on /k/.
>>30170158
It's almost certainly a Walther. It's too small to be any full size service handgun.
>>30165222
Surrounded by enemies, short on people, natural resources and fertile agricultural land. These were both the causes and stumbling blocks of their expansionist policies that led them into both WW1 and WW2. Both times the strategy was rapid KOs on every front, both times they got bogged down JUST enough that it all fell apart.
>>30168069
Yeah you bongs did a bang up job in 1066. Is that why you stopped at 700 years?
>>30170550
>What is every major English-Franco war to follow?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNqFJCypk7c
>>30165222
Imagine the grief a teenager must feel in that situation, knowing the war is lost, that your family is dead, and the future entirely uncertain. All foundations and stability in your life are gone.
>>30167303
This is literally no different than how the Soviets treated them.
>>30166191
>that's waycisssss
Go suck a Bernie's cock, you pathetic excuse for a man.
>>30166466
That's picture is fake, you daft imbecile
>>30165222
it's like sun-tzu-sempai said
>>30165435
God fucking damn look at those QTs on the left. Too bad they're probably dead now
>>30173216
looks like a picture, are you implying it's not a picture?
>>30165690
I think you mean Von Cuck
Awwwe yeeeeeeaaaaaaah
>>30165222
Because they plan for the best possible case scenario
>>30166346
M'lady.
>>30166900
We are all at war with the jews
>>30173216
yuh nigga dey germans dindu nuffin they wuz good boys it was da russins mayne bix nood
>>30166191
kys sjw cuck
>>30174869
Kill yourself you inbecile nigger
>>30165473
This gun holds seven bullets. I'm a professional. You can't fool me old man.
>>30169520
1. Germans used all kind of captured weapons. From the size it's definitely not a TT-33. We also cannot see the typical protruding barrel of the P38 or P08. Could be any compact pistol from WWII like the Korovin TK, the Walther PP/PPK, the Sauer 38H, the Mauser HSc, a Frommer 1919, or the Dreyse M1907.
2. The cropping is a common graphic tool. There were mass graves everywhere. The mass grave's size doesn't matter. War crime is war crime.
3. He's holding a coat in front of him. Difficult to do so with the hands tied behind the back. Also the left sleeve is perfectly visible. The white dot is definitely a hand.
4. Not only German troops wore German uniforms. Ukrainian and other Einsatzgruppen often wore German uniforms, too. There are no historical proofs about order no. 428.
6. Maybe
>>30165227
>Britian levels
*Cough* United States *Cough*
>>30166970
>panthers were good tanks
>weighed more than a KV-1
That side armor says otherwise.
>>30169520
Someone has that pic where a german soldier gives water to a Soviet POW during the time of the Battle of Kursk with the Meme description and the true description.
>>30165389
>1914 they were stopped only 80km before Paris.
werent they outflanked?, not necessarily stopped iirc
>>30165681
Yeah. and he should have listened to his generals who told him it's retarded to have a no retreat or execution rule
And also maybe he should listen to his military advisors who told him a jet powered fighter would be a good idea since it had proven to be an unmatched foe in the air. And he should also have accepted the MKb 42 sooner than he did.
>>30168786
nice anecdotal fallacy, 98% of women will fair immensely terrible, and the roles they can take are limited and will certaintly NOT include direct combat.
Yeah you MIGHT be as mentally capable to handle the stress, but you still weight 140 pounds and you have 30-40% of the upper body strength than a man so it's going to be hard to pull your buddy to cover when he's twice your weight and wearing 100 pounds of gear.
Just saying..
>I don't mind women in other roles such as mechanic or supply, but direct combat just seems like a REALLY bad idea in my eyes. I might be wrong though
>>30165222
Lack of reliable resource sources and the bad habit of chewing more than they can swallow
>>30165366
They were not that bad, look the bliztkrieg and the URSS invasion.
The problem is when they lose inertia and start to bog down, that's the point where the problems begin.
>>30165584
>That's on top of terrible intelligence
This, one million times this, the German intelligence services were not bad, but an unmitigated, humongous disaster from day one.
Not only they would get fooled constantly by the allies (operation MINCEMEAT as a prime example) but their intel gathering at the field sucked too, wasn't rare situations like "I wake in the morning, have some breakfast and then realize that the spearhead of an entire soviet army is starting to pound the troops 200km ahead and no one has warned them beforehand".
They fought all the way to Moscow without updated maps.
>>30175998
We can only wonder how it would have played out if Hitler hadn't been in charge.
>>30176086
>They fought all the way to Moscow without updated maps.
i like how that can be interpreted as criticism towards the Abwehr, but also as a compliment to the Wehrmacht
>>30165338
>They always bite off more than they can chew
This.
/thread
WW1? Austria/Hungary and Germany bit off more than they could chew in a fit for "glorious conquest"
WW2? Germany thought it could take over the world, again "glorious conquest"
>>30176014
>and will certaintly NOT include direct combat.
Sniper may not be a direct combat role
But it is still a combat role
>>30166346
please dont put us brits in the same category as genocidal maniacs
>>30167002
when a hun is throwing around gas and slices your throat with a spade because bayonets just arent doing it I dont think the type of fighting taught is really a matter. In one of the christmas truces of 1914 the truce was broken when a german sniper shot a brit.
>>30173132
>This is literally no different than how the Soviets treated them.
I hope you're not retarded enough to believe that if the Germans didn't act like fucking apes that the Soviets would've still been as vengeful.
>>30177198
Considering that throughout Russian history before the 20th century, Prussia/Germany had been one of Imperial Russia's most common allies (a friendliness that managed to come back in the 1930s despite WWI, Best-Litovsk, and the powers that be), yes, I think it would have been far more civil had the Germans not massacred, raped, and pillaged their way across the USSR to the point that even the other ethnicities that originally welcomed them as liberators came to hate them. The problem with starting a war of extermination is dealing with the consequences if you lose. But nobody ever thinks they'll lose when they start the war, else they wouldn't have started it in the first place.
>>30175998
Hitler's give no ground order actually prevented a collapse along the Moscow fronts during the counterattacks of 1942. The issues started happening when German armies were getting encircled and cut-off by quicker Soviet armies in '43-44, by which time yes it was time to back off. He made good and bad decisions, but the post-war cabal of German High Command would like you to believe that they could do no wrong and only lost to the Russians because of Hitler.
>>30165407
>Fighting should ideally be the least important part of war.
Fucking THIS.
>>30165404
>Lack of: coal, oil, cotton, wool, iron, rubber, copper, nickel, lead, glycerol, cellulose, mercury, aluminum, platinum, antimony, manganese, asbestos, mica, nitric acid, sulfur. You know, critical materials necessary to produce energy and sustain industrial output to outlast opponent in prolonged war. Stuff you use to make military hardware, ammunition, equipment and explosives. Demographics and mobilization ability are also important.
All this plus lack of resolve and allies
>>30177340
Britain had the resolve, intelligence, and american's industrial output as support.
Really, bongs are natural problem solvers, puzzlemasters if you will. Best radar, best cryptography, best anti-detection, and a best friend named 'Murica
