Military training thread
ITT: we discuss the real purpose of contemporary military training
ITT: I raise some issues deriving from the fact better warrior training can be achieved privately by most individuals, without joining the army.
I also argue such private training might be best training for most practical purposes.
I have detailed my views in the following 4 posts.
TL;DR =
### For those of us who still want to adhere to such ideal of:
>self-sufficient politically conscious citizens who are ALSO good prepped warriors ready to defend their loved one
is there something the army life can give that cannot be achieved by reading books, training with loyal friends, and learning /fit/, /k/, /out/, and /ck/ skills on our own?
>>30164693
1/4
I've been watching this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTHIsscwZjg
Aside from being a particularly broing video for all purposes, it made me think of two or three related issues.
>a moral issue
>a strategic issue
>a practical issue (concerning me specifically)
>>30164699
2/4
>moral issue
Some people here on /k/ celebrate the army and the military in general. But, apparently, unless you are some kind of officer, special ops, or have some special role (e.g. doctor, mission planner, sharpshooter), life in the army means endless training which is not meant to boost your skills but just to dumb you down.
This "dumbing down" is necessary to make you a functioning gear in a bigger apparatus.
The aim of most of this training is to transform you into an order-answering robot; not to transform you into a better human being.
I think the moral issue is this: most people who celebrate the army life either refer to specific roles (e.g. combat roles, officers, etc.) or they do refer to some kind of idealized militia of citizen-warriors, who do their duty and yet participate democratic choices within the walls of a besieged town.
Most people think:
>I want to be a soldier.
As a consequence, they conclude:
>It would be amazing to join the army
However, what they really have in mind is:
>I want to be an authentic warrior
And they should realize:
>Most of people in the army are not warriors. They are just mindless gears in a big machine -- cannon fodder at best. Labour hands and nothing more.
With this, I do not mean to same there is little honour in those who choose to serve. I respect their choice, but I have come to realize their grunt daily life is not the warrior life many have in mind.
>>30164706
3/4
>strategic issue
It goes unsaid, however, that the self-sufficient and autonomous warrior advertised by ancient textbooks is a figure that does not work very well in contemporary conflicts.
You can play the
>knight
>samurai
>Roman legionnaire
In your backyard. At best, you can be
>guerilla fighter
>militiamen
>war prepper
But in the reality of recent (and not so recent times) wars have little to do with militiamen and vigilante preppers. Rather, they have a lot to do with logistics, moving goods and weapon system around, and transforming everything into a chess game with the help of computers, analysits, and a horde of zombies that will go here and there without questioning why -- just because it is their job to do so.
This kind of transition was already true even during Roman age.
>At the times of the Republic, the Roman legionnaire was still a warrior-citizen and a militiaman prepper.
>At the times of the Empire, Roman army became an army of engineers and proletarians, who fought to earn wage and not necessarily for the country. Well, if anything, they sided with the military leaders who ensured their rights and supported their vets (e.g. Caesar)
The former man, the warrior-citizen of our dreams, is good to defend a tribe, a village, or a city.
However, if you want to defend an Empire, or to expand it, what you are looking for is the second kind of man: the professional. However, the professional is just a waged pair of arms and legs, with a brain proportional to his combat (or logistic role). No special honour, just law-abiding servicemen.
The issue here is not just moral, but strategic: if you have an Empire, you need an army of zombies/grunts, not of citizens. Nowadays many zombies/grunts are incidentally also citizen just because they are entitled to their vote. But in most missions they participate because it's their job, and not because of some national ideals. In fact, politics is usually banned from the army daily workings.
>>30164711
4/4
>practical issue
Once we have demonstrated that the moral ideal of the warrior-militia-citizen is strategically suitable only for low-scale conflicts, the practical question is:
### For those of us who still want to adhere to such ideal of:
>self-sufficient politically conscious citizens who are ALSO good prepped warriors ready to defend their loved one
is there something the army life can give that cannot be achieved by reading books, training with loyal friends, and learning /fit/, /k/, /out/, and /ck/ skills on our own?
Thank you for reading and participating with your thoughts and answers.
>>30164693
Good thoughts.
>>30164877
Thank you.
Actually, I would like to know if someone has a wiki or a spreadsheet that collects all the kind of things you can learn yourself.
And also, possibly, the times needed to achieve an intermediate level of training.
For example, I know that as long as guns are involved, some military personnel only gets initial training and then they spend the rest of their lives in the office.
I was wondering: how long does basic training last? 3 months? How many hours are spent shooting?
Is there a place where I can find a syllabus?
>>30164693
Milfag here. 90% of 'military training' these days is lawyer coverage/liability control: hurrdurrdonthazeniggersandfags.exe
>>30164956
So my OP is not just wishful thinking.
Do you confirm most training nowadays is just for the purposes of "fitting in" and has little to do with actual conflict?
Anyway, is there a syllabus for new recruits I can publicly access? Just for the sake of knowing how many hours you spend doing this and that?
>>30164983
Can't help with any openly accessible stuff, but there definitely seems to be a ludicrously disproportionate amount of time devoted to non-combat related 'training': be nice, don't haze, respect women, worship minorities, ad nauseum. I have joked that I would gladly take a pay cut and waive any charges brought against me in exchange for never having to take another of these ridiculous sessions again. What's worse is that most are online, but many require actual, physical attendance by personnel.
We used to make fun of the communists for 'political indoctrination' and related ideological demigogury...well the West has done a full 180' and has its own form of required political brainwashing. I just wish it extolled the West and the virtues of Democracy instead of 'celebrating diversity' and related pablum.
>>30165115
>be nice, don't haze, respect women, worship minorities, ad nauseum
Are you from the U.S.?
>We used to make fun of the communists for 'political indoctrination' and related ideological demigogury
As far as I know there are authoritarian elements that are shared across the political board.
It's like being taught to hate Krauts because of their bad cooking.
So you exterminate Krauts.
But guess what? Bad cooking abilities might be found across the board, and actually there were Krauts who had pretty good cooking abilities all things considered.
So you realize the problem has always been being a bad cook, not being Kraut.
Now substitute Krauts with "Socialists" and "bad cooking" with "authoritarianism".
They taught you to hate socialism because it is authoritarian, but the problem is not socialism per se (there are non-authoritarian versions of it), but authoritarianism in general.
You sided with anti-Socialists believing that by wiping out Socialism you would wipe out authoritarianism. But now that Socialism is dead for all practical purposes and capitalism is a thing... authoritarianism is still a problem.
20+year lifer
Basic training is just that. 90% of it is basic life and group/team skills - how to follow orders under mild pressure, basic fitness, some skills, how to dress yourself and live in a team in barracks.
Initial training for your job/trade/corps (whatever your army calls it ) is still elementary skills, tactics, weapons, how to coordinate yourself in a squad/team/section
When you get to your unit you're still a boot/jube/fng - it will take at least a years training cycle to get you up to being a soldier.
>Then the real training starts
Now, any juvenile delinquent can give you the same drill sgt shoutie crap as basic training. Some shooting ranch can give you basic shooting and solo maybe even small team tactics.
But no private school out there can teach you how to breach a concertina obstacle from an APC or Helo assault under SFMG livefire and 81mm and 155mm live HE firesupport then call-for-fire a gunship run of 2.75in onto the final objective...
>and thats just your 'basic' infantry skillset
>>30165300
>But no private school out there can teach you how to breach a concertina obstacle from an APC or Helo assault under SFMG livefire and 81mm and 155mm live HE firesupport then call-for-fire a gunship run of 2.75in onto the final objective...
I thought you just needed a wire-cutter of sort, live fire cover from your team mates... or eventually you blow the whole thing up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPFI6fEhfhg
>>30165300
what army do did you serve in m8?
>>30165300
Thank you for your answer.
>>30165345
Straya.
>>30165341
Sure just give any retard a set of wirecutters and send him up Omaha beach, it'll be fine.
> k/unt trips over getting down the boatramp, shits himself at all the noise, and cuts his thumb off trying to unfold the cutters, then after his bulletriddled carcass squashes the wire down and the rest of the trained squad climb over him, somebody has to scrape up Pte Shitstain and shovel him into a bodybag
>we dont do all those years of training just to waste time
>>30165300
Gib most stories pl0x
90% of "military training" is not very good and probably does not involve the usage of weapons at all even
and not "HURR PUSSIFED MILITARY t.civilian", i mean it's mostly shit like reading manuals for specific models of radio and learning how to use fire extinguishers, or even more boring shit like memo-writing or how to properly dispose of various sorts of trash
same for "military grade" and other mallninja buzzwords, it doesn't mean it's good or robust, it means it conforms to some arbitrary set of standards on threading sizes. and not threading for silencers, threading for bolts on office chairs and shit. there's "military grade" desks out there, all it means is that they have holes in the corners for cable management and an adjustable board for putting your keyboard on. that's it.
You don't have to do a tonne of special snowflake exercises to be fit for the military.
Running with and without weight, press ups, sit ups, and core exercises like deadlifts, squats and bench is all you'll really need.
There's loads of these military training programs supposedly run by "Ex SAS SF USAF ABBREV IAT ION Operators" that are basically crossfit tier, doing many arbitrary and basically useless exercises that involve movement you'd never actually do in real life.
>>30165637
>basically useless exercises that involve movement you'd never actually do in real life.
this is why I like the FORCE test in canada. the requirements are weaksauce (but thank fucking god because i am so out of shape) but the concept is that it's all simulations of shit you'd actually do while working instead of just push and sit ups
iirc it's:
>sandbag lifting, lift a thing and then put it back down 30 times to simulate loading a truck or some similar activity
>typical shuttle runs but you have to go to prone at each mark, to simulate running into cover and getting down, then moving again
>sandbag shuttles, walk a thing to a point then sprint back for more (they also enforce walking with the load, because in a real situation, you'd be yelled at for running because workplace liability and hazards and fragile loads and such)
>large sandbag drag 25m long to shut up the people who are all OMG HOW IS A WOMYN GUNNA HAUL ME 2 COVRE IF I GET SHOT ;_; well it's literally a test you have to do before you're allowed in now AND you typically re-do it at basic once or twice in pairs with your platoonmates
it's a nice balance between melodramatic LE WARFIGHTRE :^) stuff and the actually reasonable expectations of loading up recruitment vans for public events and shuttling boxes eggs into ships' galleys
>>30165576
not that guy (i'm canadian) but what would you like to know? I've done my basic, my trades course, a naval damage control course, and got to do a couple of training sails and "alongside weekends" (basically you get a tour of a ship as a new employee to it, getting shown where all the equipment is and how stuff works, etc)
A professional military gives large scale standardized training. You could argue that "Me and my 7 friends practice small unit tactics and are really good" but trying to then integrate you team with a dozen other teams in a wide reaching operation, all who have their own varying levels of training and ways of doing things it will turn into a shit show.
>is there something the army life can give that cannot be achieved by reading books, training with loyal friends, and learning /fit/, /k/, /out/, and /ck/ skills on our own?
Even if your basic grunt is only averagely trained, command and control is far more important. You and your 8 friends might be combat super stars, but bubba's group next to you idea of training was shooting at targets from the prone at 300m and dual wielding uzis for cbc. They shit themselves and run away when s bullet cracks overhead, and your team is outflanked and and nothing in the world can save you.
How can you confidently say every man is capable in all necessary areas when everyone has done stuff in their own time and not been taught, tested and passed from an approved instructor with approved materials? Going on K is not good if you just post in gun waifu threads.
>The aim of most of this training is to transform you into an order-answering robot; not to transform you into a better human being.
Meme, I don't know how it works in the US army but you are absolutely not turned into a mindless drone. Soldiers are supposed to be adaptable, when your a private you might just do as your told and leave it at that, but as you start taking on rank responsibilities and decision making are given to you.
>>30165663
What did the trades course involve?
>>30165707
Communications, so a mixture of tutorials on how to use various simple NATO codebooks and standardized maritime signals (signal flags, lights, etc), and a bit of IT. We also still do morse code for whatever insane reason. There's also fleet maneuvering -- signals to move are promulgated in terms of the whole fleet, not of individual ships. So we have to understand how the ship is intended to be moving. Same for if you're on the ship that's telling others what to do, the officers say what they want, it's our job to figure out how to express it so no individual ship gets the wrong idea and, say, tries to take someone else's spot.
I don't have my clearance yet, so I could only do half the course, but the lesson plan is unclassified (I actually have a hard copy of it) and is basically just how to operate various crypto devices and procedures that are rapidly becoming deprecated anyway.
>>30165655
The force requirements were just a dumbed down version of expres, it was made to be easier to pass and that's not a good thing
>>30165832
EXPRESS was indeed harder, but it was also just a number of pushups and situps.
And 2bh, I don't think that standards have to be that high. Most people are not in roles where you need to be doing crossfit every day, and if you are, you are going to be doing crossfit every day as part of your job.
>>30165899
>I don't think standards have to be that high
Are you a woman?
>>30165903
Why would he have to be a woman to think that? Most POG jobs don't need high physical standards at all.
>>30165973
The forces aptitude test was adopted specifically to make it easy for women to join so it just stands to reason
Its never men that think test should be easier and requirements lower, always women. In the military, for jobs, for entrance to uni, women always think they should have an easier go of it, and do
>>30165973
>using the phrase "pog" unironically
t. civilian
but yes, the spirit of your post is right -- like 90% of people in any given first-world force are going to be in a role where physical fitness literally does not matter. And that includes "combat" roles, sailors, airmen, etc. You don't need to do crossfit every day if your job is to monitor radio traffic in a tent all day.
>>30166003
>specifically to make it easy for women to join
>for jobs, for entrance to uni, women always [have an easier go of it]
>>30166018
Every Marine a rifleman
>>30166018
POG is used pretty regularly, at least when I was in 05-10
>>30166018
>civilian
I'm in the USAF faget. I just don't get butthurt over the POG. We have the word nonner to upset non-mission essential personnel instead.
>>30166031
>>30166018
You two faggots should get together. With your POG faggotry combined, you'd make great infantrymen
>>30165663
What coast are you sailing on this summer, fag
>>30166033
>butthurt soldier/marine POG detected
Go ahead, call me Chair Force, you'll feel better.
>>30166026
I've literally never ever heard it spoken aloud even once, and only see it with regularity on /k/ from people complaining about arbitrary fitness requirements
>>30166036
west coast best coast east coast beast coast
>real purpose of military training.
To teach a man how to survive 10 sexual harassment power points a day.
>I raise some issues deriving from the fact better warrior training can be achieved privately by most individuals
the private citizen will get less power points on average, but if he works in an office he will get all the training he needs in surviving them.
>I also argue such private training might be best training for most practical purposes.
it's always good to train for the inevitable powerpoint so that you can get through one without blowing your brains out.
>>30166049
I would expect as much from a NCI op. Lack disiprine to understand that east cost is infinitely better
>>30166021
It was developed as a gender neutral test for the military, instead of making women complete the men's tests to serve with men they adopted an easier test for everyone
As far as jobs go there are a lot of gender quotas in place officially and unofficially, this means it doesn't matter if a male applicant is better than a female, she will get the job. This has happened most recently with Trudeaus cabinet
Uni admissions take several factors in to enrollment, grades are one but if you are a minority or a woman you will receive preferential enrollment, where a white male would require a 4.0 GPA a minority or woman would only need a 3.0 to be picked over the man
>>30166049
It's used IRL a lot in the American military, maybe that's why you haven't heard it spoken since you're Canuck.
>>30164983
Havent finished reading the thread. But I'm a guard member and I graduated basic training last year. It gets split up into three phases which all emphasize different things, red phase, white phase, and blue phase. During red phase you focus a lot on basic drill and ceremony, attention to detail, working as a team, and just learning how to listen and kind of adjust to a high pace lifestyle. White phase is continuing to tighten up what you learned before hand, and now you start to hone in on basic warrior skills like shooting, reacting to contact, combat lifesaver stuff, and the 'cool stuff'. Then you get into blue phase. Blue phase comes back into focusing in and tightening those things learned before. About this time you turn your weapon in and start going through different testing on all you've learned, and do more advanced d&c for graduation and stuff. Then you graduate, and get the hell out.
For a lot of soldiers like myself, I haven't done anything I did in basic again except shoot. I'll never throw a grenade again unless crazy stuff happens. But the training I see today just seems silly. Like you said, non conflict related. I have a lot of people ask me about tactics and stuff and when I tell them I don't know I get a lot of "Oh, aren't you in the military?" And all I can really say is that I'm just a common guy who drives in the military. But I'd agree with most of what you've said.
>>30164693
>the real purpose of contemporary military training
That depends on the mos, dumbass
>>30166049
In infantry units it gets used all the time, ironically and unironically
>>30166045
[Spoiler] Chairforce[/spoiler]
>>30166106
You can only split it between ironically/unironically if you see it as an insult and not a label, which is what it makes more sense as.
>>30166108
Don't you feel better now?
Learn to take a joke, warrior.
>>30164706
>However, what they really have in mind is:
>>I want to be an authentic warrior
>And they should realize:
>>Most of people in the army are not warriors. They are just mindless gears in a big machine -- cannon fodder at best. Labour hands and nothing more.
I think the problem of this statement in todays world is that you dont get to "be and actual warrior" AKA actually oper8in, killin, etc unless you join the armed forces. Yes, private training may do better for actual combative techniques (from unarmed to armed, and unit training) but you wont get to excercise what you learned unless you are in the armed forces, mostly. Double edged sword?
>>30164706
this post is wrought with misinformation, not that you are intentionally sreading it, but are victim to it.
Army/military training doesnt "dumb you down," it builds you up. A lot of guys get this notion because the military has a large potion of it made up of 18-24 year olds, who have yet to grow out of their rebel instincts. So the culture of the military comes as a shock to them, as they are literally forced to work with people they have just met.
As you develope as a Soldier, your skills are exoected to grow as well, this is why you are sent to NCO development courses and why they send everyone to the basic combatives course, but only NCOs/oficers to the higher levels.
The average Soldier does one term of service, so generally he gets his initial training, some OJT time and needed training like combat life saver. These schools are either essential for their specific unit or cheap.
The lower level classes are not meant to "dumb down" the person, but are dumbed down so that the guys that just barely make the standard can also learn and have a skill set.
What sets military trainng apart from anything you would get on the civilian market, is that it all revolves around operating as a member of a team. You do NOTHING alone. While you can get great training as a civilian, generally there is no esprit de corps, no fraternity, no sense of brotherhood. You are simply on your own as a civilian. While that may fit your personality, it does not win wars.
>>30165973
What do you mean? Of course its a woman, she doesn't think she should have to work as hard as men because she is somehow equal to people who are better in basically every way
>>30166136
This. So many neverserveds think warfare is about individual skill and being like some Rambo that accomplishes everything by themselves.
Hell I won't lie, before I enlisted all I thought about was what "I was going to/wanted to do" and that serving in the military was just about killing hajji, when I didn't know a lick about things like maneuvering as a team, lanes of fire, etc.
>>30166151
>he thinks women actually post on /k/
What's it like on your planet?
>>30166070
actually the big "problem" with the EXPRESS test and why it was made easier was that senior personnel and officers kept failing it as they settled into desk jobs and understandably got a little pear-shaped. It wasn't to get more women in, it was to keep clerks and recruiters from getting forced out
if you want to go on any courses for things that actually do require good levels of physical fitness, they have you do shitloads of PT so that if you weren't in shape before, you sure as fuck are now
like, on diver courses, they do more running than diving, because they know that diving requires very fit people. but for, say, communications, it's only one day a week of PT where they basically say "go to the gym and do whatever but you're not secure until 4 so you may as well climb a rope or smth"
>>30166081
like I said, even online, I only ever really see it here, and spoken in anger by armchair commandos
>>30166064
>he's never heard the old "west coast best coast east coast beast coast" rhymes
>he thinks "beast coast" is a bad thing
r u gay
>>30166151
>t-they said you dont have to be fit to do paperwork! t-they must be a woman! WOMAN GET OUT! REEEEEEEEEE
u are dumb ass fuck my man
>>30166159
>he thinks all the worst posts and attention whoring doesn't come from the female posters on /k/
Have you ever been to the arg or any other daily thread? Female posters have increased as /k/s quality has decreased
>>30166156
Agreed. You can summarize why OP is a longwinded prepper faget by quoting thr following: amateurs think tactics while professionals think logistics.
>>30166162
>spoken in anger by armchair commandos
This is true. Like half the time I see Chairforce on /k/ it's more than likely some fat fuck civvie who probably works a desk job himself.
>>30166162
The test were in place for a long time and they didn't cause problems till they wanted to go to gender neutral testing, it was never officially announced but they changed because of women
>>30166173
>Amateurs study tactics. Veterans study strategy. Professionals study logistics.
>>30166171
Anon, Ivy isn't a real woman.
>>30166185
t. civilian
literally every older member I've asked about it has said basically the same thing: popcorn POs kept failing, and the forces doesn't really care about women. In fact, they're trying to work on the place not being full of would-be rapists before trying to appeal to the womyn audience.
and 2bh, from what I've seen, the chicks tend to be more consistently in shape than the guys. I guess they have something to prove
>>30166194
He's not but plenty of others are
Seriously, go to any pointless recurring (you) type thread and chances are better than average its started by a woman
>>30166113
These terms have been around forever. I've heard WWII generation use terms like REMF (rear echelon motherfucker) and PX Cowboy
>>30166200
>popcorn POs kept failing
And yet this wasn't a problem for them for decades before hand but when females integrate, it is
>In fact, they're trying to work on the place not being full of would-be rapists before trying to appeal to the womyn audience
Oh, so you are a brainless woman, good to know
>>30166162
No homo bby, just army sig. Not even a navy fag.
>>30166225
you need to work on your meme game man.
>>30166200
We have some women come close to failing the drag part. Thats the one part of the test that seems to get the fit but lightweight women.
>>30166220
>And yet this wasn't a problem for them for decades before hand
it literally was and is why the FORCE test is marginally easier than the EXPRESS test
and 2bh, with all your WOMYN REEEEEEEEEEE shit i have a hard time believing you're not some fat slovenly neckbeard from /r9k/ who probably couldn't pass a single one of the FORCE test items
>Oh, so you are a brainless woman, good to know
i dunno how you got that from my post, but you are dumb ass heck my man, and should probably fuck off outta hear back to wizardchan
>>30166247
I've noticed that it's a height thing. Girls are typically shorter, and it's harder to get leverage on the bag if you're short. Shorter guys fail that one just as often.
If anything, instead of chimping out about women, /k/ should have constant threads about letting manlets into the military. They're just as useless. :^)
>>30166240
Good post bby
>>30166258
It's not just about physical ability, although women are dramatically inferior there. Social cohesion is also a major issue and women inevitably destroy it.
>>30166258
Now that you say it, the small guys have issues too. They seem to have a bit more weight behind them to move it that way though
>>30166259
hop on her ;^)
>>30166270
do not hop on her. you're are a permavirgin
>>30166253
It literally wasn't a problem, if it were it would have been addressed long ago, 20 or 30 years ago actually
>I don't know how you got that from my post
You are defending lowering standards, this is what women do, you also imply all men are potential rapist, this is something ignorant women do
>>30166258
>/k/ should have constant threads about letting manlets into the military
Why would they be bitching about themselves?
>>30166284
im still having trouble believing that you even have a job, let alone know anything about how the military operates
>>30166258
Having longer limbs actually gives you less leverage, its hard for a tall person to be as strong as a short person at the same weight
>>30166274
Sheitt, I do need to step up my game. We can maybe get together and talk antennas, may mays and touch weeners?
>>30166284
Except "pls don't rape anyone" briefings being repeated as nauseam is an actual thing military men bitch about, you ignorant neverserved.
>>30166300
Well that's nice sweetheart but what I say is true, its just an ugly truth that didn't get publicity
>>30166306
Yes men bitch about them but women caused them to take place
They also have that sjw shit all over universities, again, because of women
>>30166323
No, it happened because both genders have idiots that choose to make poor decisions and fuck it up for everyone else. Males are not infallible simply because women tend to be less rational, or else MUH DIKK wouldn't be a thing.
>>30166391
No, it happened as more and more women got in, both in the military and at university
They said that summerfags were just a meme and that shitposting doesn't increase during the summer
>>30166306
>Except "pls don't rape anyone" briefings being repeated as nauseam is an actual thing military men bitch about,
True, but if you've ever spent any time with an infantry unit, you'd see that they're probably a good idea and someone probably would get raped if the boys didn't get a new email every week repeating the "pls dont rape anyone" spiel.
It's less a problem in the navy because there's more women and it's more or less normalized and the airforce is like 102% gay with a 1% margin of error, but army units have basically no women in them and those guys turn into complete animals as soon as they see a titty.
>>30166409
>telling people not to rape will stop people that would be OK raping someone
>>30166409
Hey fuck you, I'm in the Air Force and I love 2D women. The gay ones are the females.
>>30166422
It's more of reminding them of what the consequences will be that does the trick. Getting your dick wet is not worth your career in jeopardy.
>>30166438
Its retarded and it doesn't influence anyone, if you are the type that would rape someone you won't change your opinion on it
>>30166450
You sound like you know that very intimately.
>>30166406
this
i cant believe this asshole is defending women being allowed in the military
fucking feminist whore
>>30166406
t. newfag
>>30166450
Are you one of those people who insists that having sex with chicks should be a government protected right because you got friendzoned once?
>>>/r9k/
>>30166530
I'm just stating a simple fact
Telling a thief not to steal won't stop them from stealing
Telling a drug addict not to do drugs won't stop them from doing drugs
Telling a rapist not to rape won't stop them from raping
Those are things that need to be instilled in a person as a child, you can't stop the behaviors in adults unless they themselves consciously decided not to
>>30166406
Just look at how the poster count hasn't gone up in over an hour. It's just people ironically shitposting themselves.
>>30166564
I don't even know what to say to you anymore. You are dumb as shit, man. And you really should go back to wizardchan.
>>30166622
If you think any of that is wrong you might be literally retarded, or you just don't understand human behavior
>>30166648
>threat of punishment doesn't deter crime
>>30166660
The threat of punishment is and always has been there and everyone is perfectly aware of it, that's not what the don't rape classes are for, they are there to inform people that you shouldn't rape and raping is bad, stop raping people.
The people who wouldn't rape someone know this, everyone knows it, they also know that you will be kicked out and put in prison of caught, everyone knows this too.
You don't get a criminal to change their ways by telling them things they already know
>>30166739
Are you in the forces?
Do you actually know what's going on in the forces?
>>30166854
Yes, have you ever taken a psychology class, learned anything about human behavior or criminal punishment and rehabilitation?
The way I see it, you have two options:
>Pay thousands of dollars to attend classes/courses on how to jump, shoot, dive, disarms bombs, clear houses etc..
>Get paid thousands of dollars to attend classes/courses on how to jump, shoot, dive, disarms bombs, clear houses etc..
>>30166923
Well, most /k/ommando wannabe operators are too fat or stupid for the army, so they have to pay for the courses instead of get paid.
>>30166739
>they are there to inform people that you shouldn't rape and raping is bad,
I haven't read the thread but I agree quite a bit with everything said.
OP was not a faggot.
![fat-tac4_zpso1y23m46[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xp5jFaL.jpg "fat-tac4_zpso1y23m46[1].jpg")
>>30164693
>moral issue
If you need more training to properly follow orders after basic, you are literally retarded and will be kicked out of the military. Following orders is not hard, and the only people who need training to do it are 18 year old faggots with over inflated opinions of themselves. The point of additional training is not to "dumb you down", it's to maintain/grow your skills and keep you from getting complacent.
>strategic issue
So what, you're mad you don't get to be a special snowflake? Welcome to the real world son, everyone is replaceable. The knights and the samurai died out because they refused to realize this. The strength of a military is not in its 'warrior ethos', but in the unity, equipment, and training of its troops (in that order). The Romans were the first to realize this, and they realized it early on. The Roman legions during the republic era onward were laid out remarkably similar to the way our military was before the abolition of conscription, with a smaller active duty force and a larger component of reserves buoyed by conscripts.
>practical issue
I know a reservist in the national guard, which is pretty much the closest you can be to a civilian while still being in the military (he has a full time job, lives in a different city than the one his unit is based in, etc.). He spends the equivalent of two months a year doing training. That's 1/6 of his time, or over 1 solid day a week. And this is the least amount of training required of you in the military. Guys on active duty train even more. Are you willing to compete with that? Are you even physically able to? And if you're not, do you really expect to be a better solider than a man with some of the most expensive and high tech equipment on the planet and who spends the majority of his time training how to do it?
You sound like the sort of faggot who complains that working out "isn't fun" and then wonders why you're fat as fuck. Life is hard, war even moreso. Man the fuck up.
>>30167843
Just you wait, you'll have someone tell you that they'd like to be a "warrior" but their political views make them unable to serve in a national fighting force because ZOG or some other lizardmen.
>>30164693
>best warrior
sure
>no use joining
no
The military will, for the time being, teach you three very important life lessons most people live their entire lives without learning:
1. Shit can be worse
2. You are fucking dead/done if you don't work with a team
3. Suffering is temporary, and it WILL be over eventually.
1 and 2 most first worlders never get the chance to learn, the third is generally only known by athletes or /fit/izens. In addition:
1.mindset
2.learning to shut the fuck up
3.learning to deal with stupid shit without bitching like a little cunt
4.extreme esprit de corps
5.once you get out you have a bunch of buddies you can depend on whom likely work as an amazing team and as a bonus are pretty good on the trained killer list
6.learning to deal with stupid people
And others. Yes, none of these traits will turn you into Solid Snake or whatever your favorite version of the tactimeme is. Absolutely yes, tactical training, unless you are some form of SOCOM, will likely be better out than in the military.
My advice? Join for a bit, a short session. Go through the shitty shit. But once you get out, never stop living the way you were when you were in, unless you were that private that got wasted and played video games all weekend. Wake up early, make you bed, PT, eat meals on time, maintenance your equipment. You'll be a better person for it. Live your life like a hoplite, act like the persians are just across the Agean.
bump for interest
>>30164919
>Actually, I would like to know if someone has a wiki or a spreadsheet that collects all the kind of things you can learn yourself.
murdercube.com
>is there something the army life can give that cannot be achieved by reading books, training with loyal friends, and learning /fit/, /k/, /out/, and /ck/ skills on our own?
what should one learn?
>>30165341
>just a wire cutter and covering fire
oh boy
Breaching obstacles training was fun, especially the part where they told me that experiencing 33-50% casualties was pretty normal.
Canuck here. Just sent my papers in and have my aptitude test scheduled.
Reallly hoping for Land Weapons Technician. Anyone have any experience with that sort of gig in any country's forces?
Also I've heard some bad stuff about the current state of the Canadian Armed Forces, any merit to those claims?
Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this, it's my first day.
