How long can you keep a percussion loaded and still have it fire reliably?
Also general wheel gun thread.
>>30148951
You don't. You go buy in .38 special.
>>30148951
>How long can you keep a percussion loaded and still have it fire reliably?
It really depends, but it's safe to say months, even years if stored properly.
Chambers will be rusted as fuck though if you keep it loaded for months/years though. I keep mine loaded and unload it at the range every week, works just fine, barely any rust.
>>30148951
Depends on a lot of factors. I kept a loaded 44cal Pietta around for two months due to curiousity and complacency.
Of the six cylinders, all fired weak, and two required recapping with magnum caps to fire. This is with a lead seal from using 457cal balls, capped and buttered.
If you are using one as a carry piece, please don't.
>>30149048
>if your are using one as a carry piece.
buy a conversion kit.
>>30148997
Care to elaborate?
I have heard stories of revolvers that haven't been touched since the 1800s that have fired off at least half of their loaded chambers.
The main issue is moisture. A little bit of moisture can end up rusting the chambers or getting to the powder, rendering it useless. If you properly seat a lead ball, the only way moisture can get through is through the nipple. If you use something like beeswax to waterproof the primer and nipple area and keep the gun somewhere where it won't rust, I guarantee that it will fire reliably.
>>30149048
>If you are using one as a carry piece, please don't
You can just store it loaded and unload it on the range every week, clean it, then load again.
>>30149072
A Howell is $200 or so, depending on model being converted and may be limited on pressures if the frame doesn't have a top strap. It would also include the price of the pistol itself.
Just buying a EAA or even a Taurus would be a better idea for carry.
>>30148951
If you seal the cylinder with a bit of candle wax and keep the caps on the nipples? Years and years.
>>30149115
This is a stupid idea. Percussion revolvers were awesome in the mid 1800s but almost any modern-made pistol, even a hi-point, will be much more reliable than a percussion revolver. There's a reason nobody uses them anymore for defense.
Will a percussion revolver kill? Absolutely, it's as deadly as a modern pistol round. But it's way, way too finicky to be depended upon to protect your life today.
>>30149114
Adding some kind of desiccant (sillica gel for example) could be helpful. I'm yet to test it though.
>>30149138
You are forgetting that not everyone lives in the Land of the Free.
I'm yuropoor, keeping a loaded 1858 at home, thinking about carrying 1863. That's the only thing I can legally carry/store loaded.
The way things are around here, that 1800s tech is still pretty damn advanced by comparsion.
>>30149161
That's actually a really good point I didn't think of. If you're unable to get real guns then percussion revolvers are very much the next best thing.
I swear, there's a huge niche for modern-made percussion firearms that cater to that market. Something like a double-action, lightweight revolver that still carries a .44 punch, with easily reloadable cylinders.
>>30149161
>>30148951
If I had to, I would use a .44 cal and load with Pyrodex 30grn pellets and change the caps at least once a week if it's kept in a drawer and daily if it's a carry piece.
>>30149193
naw
some government stipulation says that an "antique" non-firearm must be a design before X year
>>30149161
Would converting the 1858 to cartridges be legal? Most steel frame 1858 repros can handle weak smokeless or Trail Boss loads.
That leaves the question of brass, powder, and primers though.
>>30149205
>carrying .44
They are huge, I don't think it would be possible to CC them comfortably.
As I said I'm considering pic realated in .31. Doesn't pack quite as much punch as .44 or even .36 and has only 5 chambers, but still I wouldn't exactly want to get shot with it and CCing it wouldn't be a problem at all.
>>30149230
>Would converting the 1858 to cartridges be legal?
Nope, only legal when it doesn't use cartridges.
That said, paper cartridges and pre-loaded spare cylinders in Remingtons are a thing.
>>30149256
>pic related
>>30149193
> swear, there's a huge niche for modern-made percussion firearms that cater to that market. Something like a double-action, lightweight revolver that still carries a .44 punch, with easily reloadable cylinders.
In most yuropoor countries that allow black powder firearms with no permits, they have to be designed before 18XX year and can't use cartridges.
A .36 call Colt Navy makes about as much energy as a .380 with hard ball ammo.
A .31 is marginal even with perfect shot placement.
>>30148951
Depends on your powder and how humid your area is.
If you live in a fairly humid place, it won't stay good for long. but if you're in a place like the arizona desert, you'll be good for a long time.
While if you've used proper sized bullets the front will be sealed, but moisture can still slip in via the nipples.
There have been civil war finds with still fireable powder charge inside the barrel.
though Wild Bill Hickock would fire his navies every morning to ensure his gun was as reliable as possible.
I've never left my navy loaded for more than a few days so i admit i don't have the most experience with this particular question.
>>30149276
I was more thinking for maximum convenience and minimal cleaning if you were going to have to use it repeatedly over a time.
My 1851 is pretty questionable after 30 shots as to whether the cylinder will advance or not. That said, it is pretty lightly used and firing some 30gr loads might loosen it up.
>>30149138
Europeans/ non-Americans and Americans under the age of 21 with anti-gun families who refuse to gift them a pistol to use for self defense, as is the case with me.
>>30149327
I wouldn't call any caliber "marginal".
Hell a .22 handgun is better than no handgun.
I kept two chambers loaded in my Pietta 1851 navy for about 10 months in a leather flap-top holster and when I finally got back to it, they both fired strongly with the same caps. Not really any rust to be seen, though I do use quite a bit of grease on my iron...
>>30149348
Well the laws says cartridges are a no no.
>My 1851 is pretty questionable after 30 shots as to whether the cylinder will advance or not.
Same, after 12-18 I also start noticing huge drops in accuracy.
>>30149377
>I wouldn't call any caliber "marginal".
Good for you.
>>30149389
I live in NC, which has fairly humid climate, too, but maybe I was just lucky. I certainly wouldn't recommend the practice.
>>30148951
Before the rimfire and later centerfire cartridges, you'd have an interesting choice. Do you go with cap and ball, or a pinfire (of course, after pinfire was invented)? Pinfire had the advantage of being a self-contained cartridge, but the disadvantage was a small powder charge thanks to the space that the pinfire parts took up. Cap and ball gave you more powder, but a greater chance of unreliability.
>>30149327
it's about the same energy wise as sub 1000 fps .38 special loads. which i guess is similar as .380.
Conicals are better if you need/want penetration, but they deform or expand very little.
Elmer Keith, before establishing the magnum calibers. first learned how to gun from civil war veterans who still kept their .36s. The Veterans whole heartedly believed .36 roundball was some of the most lethal stuff out there at the time they were interviewed.
That said, .44 roundball penetrates almost as much as 9x19.
MAC did a video on the .44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpIVLUQ9rk8
>>30149377
A 22 LR would be a better choice it would go through heavy clothing and have more reliable ignition.
>>30149452
And a pinfire diagram if that helps.
>>30149161
>Eurabia is literally reverting back to the Wild West
>>30149477
>it would go through heavy clothing
So would anything bigger than a .32 in a muzzleloader.
>inb4 anecdotes of Russian greatcoats, half sulfur powder and extreme distance shooting.
>>30149094
He meant you should buy a conversion cylinder or one already converted to use cartridges. Imo cartridges are fine, but part of the allure of cap and ball revolvers is the more involved loading process.
>>30149435
It's a matter od compromise.
Let's be honest, handguns are generally not the best at killing shit effectively. A thug pumped full of adrenaline could take a 9mm/.40/.45 directly to the heart and would still keep going for long enough to fuck your shit upp, even if he doesn't live to tell the tale.
But nevertheless ther are used because they can be concealed. You can't CC a .44 comfortably, .36 would be pushing it, .31 wouldn't be a problem at all. Better to have a .31 than nothing.
>>30149477
>it would go through heavy clothing
I don't think .31 would have much problems either.
>have more reliable ignition
True, but black powder guns can be made pretty damn reliable with enough how-to, just as modern handguns can jam after each shot or not shoot at all with shitty ammo.
Anyone on /k/ own a S&W 69? I'm seriously lusting after a lightweight 44 mag to be my innawoods handgun.
Also thought about using a BP revolver just to make things harder on myself.
>>30149312
Heh, so because of pussbag laws, Europe will turn in to the Wild West because all that can be had is old-ass designs?
I would see that movie.
>>30148951
Funnyly enough I went through a cylinder of .44 from a 1858 pietta I had loaded roughly a month ago.
I used N°10 caps, black powder in pre packed chunk (it's bad I know but it was given free, and all I had) and round .451 bullets
Sealed with Lithium grease, because once again it was all I had.
Thing is, I loaded the cylinder just after cleaning the gun thoroughly, and some oil may had still been inside.
Anyway, ffw to last week, I tried to shoot it with a friend for the lulz.
The first two didn't fired at all, the cap was striken but did not explode. I was a bit concerned, but changed the caps, and it fired just well.
One of the round kind of slow burned, or maybe it was the grease, but went through the barrel anyway.
Hope it helped
>>30149544
If habbening would ever habben in my country, it would be pretty interesting indeed.
>>30149552
Just an advice, check for squibs when doing this kind of thing. Black powder doesn't burn nearly as good as smokless, a lot of shit can go wrong.
>>30149584
>Black powder doesn't burn nearly as good as smokless
Entirely depends on what you're using.
the substitutes have a higher ignition temp, which is why it's not recomended to use them in flintlocks. but percussion caps are good enough provided your powder isn't moist. otherwise you might need some magnum caps.
actual black powder (depending on it's sulfur content) catches retardedly easy.
>>30149619
>actual black powder (depending on it's sulfur content) catches retardedly easy
Yeah, in perfect conditions. I'm not too sure about a loaded gun that was stored for a month.
It's always good to check when doing something out of the ordinary.
>>30149527
>I don't think .31 would have much problems either.
I honestly think it would.
http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html
>race war /pol/ rambles on about finally kicks off
>Police and military forces versus Islamists versus random Europeans speaking in forced Texan accents who constantly reek of sulphur
fund this film
>>30149584
Well since I was shooting on a big target I was able to tell if a round hit it or not. But thanks for the advice even if i'm already ocd safety enough
>>30149667
If we get (un)lucky enough, this might be a reality.
>>30149667
>>30149680
Any swissbro around who can provide a conversion cylinder? :^)
depends on humidity, I would reload with coffee each morning.
>>30149639
>same charge twice but with slightly different sized ball
>400fps difference
He's fucking up something.
doesn't change the fact that small pocket guns like these were the norm for self defense.
Hell, even Hickock carried a .32
>>30149544
>implying I wouldn't go full revolutionary with a musket
In order to use smokeless powder, would it be economical to have a machine shop mill a replacement cylinder out of 4340 or something?
>>30149828
Frame is still going to be weak.
>>30149828
For what?
if you're talking about black powder, no. the guns made today are as strong as can be without making some brick ruger monstrosity.
You don't use smokeless in muzzleloaders because they require much more precise measurement. it's safe to measure black powder and substitutes volumetrically. whereas you cannot safely do so for smokeless.
if you want to shoot smokeless in your revolver, you get a conversion cylinder and shoot cowboy loads. which are made to shoot sub 1000 fps.
But if you want to eyeball 2 or 3 grains of bullseye into your Colt or Remington, your more than welcome to cosplay as a Katawa Shoujo.
>>30149828
You need a frame that can take it, made of steel and not an alloy repro like used to be common years ago.
Beyond that, you can buy the cylinders commercially in the US. Howell and Kirst are the first to come to mind, there are others. Commercial cylinders may require some hand fitting.
As for a local shop, mine won't touch guns, nor would I trust them too. Shops in my hometown could do it for about $100, based off their prices for automotive parts, with extensive handfitting required.
>>30149161
You can legally carry a black powder gun? What country?
>>30149989
Poland.
Can carry loaded as long as I don't bring it to public transport. That said, OCing wouldn't be the best idea.
>>30149293
Nobody needs 5 shots or a small tacticool weapon
>>30150062
>tacticool
This term didnt even exist when this thing was designed
>>30148951
dont ever keep black powder in a rifle or revolver or ANYTHING longer than a day. black powder is very corrosive
>>30149989
black powder weapons that are flintlock, caplock, etc. are considered to be on the same level as cap guns, and can be purchased in areas where people are unable to purchase firearms
>>30151883
No it's not. Only the residue is, black powder itself is going to leave barely any rust.
Read the thread before replying.
>>30149256
You could cc a derringer. Not much use over 5 or so meters and basically one-shot, but in your average mugging? Mugga is dead.
>>30148951
You should really look into paper cartridges. Easy to make and loading is quite painless.
