Will this ever substitute normal rifles /k/?
>Five of the weapons were deployed with the 101st Airborne Division in Afghanistan in October 2010,[13] along with 1,000 hand-made air-burst rounds. The soldiers reported that the weapon was extremely effective at killing or neutralizing enemy combatants firing on US troops from covered positions.
>>30144947
>Will this ever substitute normal rifles /k/?
>instead of rifles, everyone just carries air burst grenade launchers
Think before you ask such questions next time.
>>30144955
Why not?
>>30144947
>Hand made rounds
Christ the hipsters have even gotten to the Army, did they also use locally produced organic explosives?
No. Winning firefights is about longevity. That means carrying as much ammo as possible. If your carrying 200+ rounds of 5.56, you can keep the enemies head down a lot longer than carrying 20 rounds of 25mm. Which is not to say AB grenade launcher don't have their place, but their effectiveness is entirely contingent on knowing where the enemy is, which is not always a luxury you have.
>>30145080
>Pin enemies down
>Instead of just blowing them to bits with airburst
"No, winning battles is about fixing bayonets and charging" -Same faggot, different century.
if i know the army, and i do, they'd equip a squad member with one of these instead of a 203/320. poor guy would likely be carrying his M4 and 210rds as well. not sure whether i'd prefer high tech 20mm or a 40mm that i already know how to kill with
>>30145014
In context 'hand made' is equivalent of a handload.
>>30145114
Apparently you don't know the army, because you can look up how they were used in Afghanistan.
>>30145094
Which is contingent on knowing their position fuckwit, that's not always a luxury you have. If you can only carry so much ammunition (on account of each round being twice as thicker as a .50), then suppressing fire is not even an option. You are just limiting the options available to your troops.
>>30145094
Try reading a whole post before you respond.
Eventually it'll get shrunk down to a size it can get mounted onto a rifle.
>>30145136
ok, by prototype testers not in any standardized doctrine fashion. same way they test all their shit senpai, give it to some poor faggot who wants to make brown people die better in theater
it's a great squad asset like an m240, but you dont arm every man in the squad with m240s.
>>30144947
I can see there being one per platoon, maybe one per squad that's going into the shit, but not replace, no. Especially in urban environments or congested areas.
What COULD work better would be some type of grenade launcher airburst round under the barrel. But that's probably like 20 years off.
>>30145170
>how it has been used doesn't fit my spiel so it doesn't count
>>30145125
I know I'm just shitposting
>>30145240
But hes right. In practice, the XM25 is a more user friendly and easier to aim m203/m320/m32. Its not as game changing as you seem to think it is and its not for everyone.
>>30145240
i mean youre wrong, It really doesnt matter how it was used in testing, it wont be used that way if ever standardized. you can shitpost all day, it won't change army doctrine and basic squad composition that's worked since ww1
What can it launch other than airbust rounds?
Grenade launcher is kinda useless if it can throw smoke grenades or flares.
>>30145301
>Its not as game changing as you seem to think it is and its not for everyone.
Going by the feedback on its use in Afghanistan having one per platoon(?) was a game changer.
>>30145314
>It really doesnt matter how it was used in testing
wew lad
>>30145416
Caliber: Low-velocity 25mm × 40 grenade
-Thermobaric
-Flechette
-Training
-High-explosive airbursting round (HEAB)
-Non-lethal
-Armor Piercing (50 mm armor penetration)
-Door breaching
Considering the inclusion of LTL and breaching rounds, they seem to be merging its role with the m1014. Makes sense.
>>30145014
are handloads 'artisan' bullets? are reloaders actually giant hipsters?
>>30145448
Yeah, so it's kinda good, some smoke/flare round would still be great but I guess you can't really have it with relatively small grenade it fires.
Random anon on /k/ approves this weapon despite of it.
>>30145094
That faggot was Alexander Suvorov, and he never lost a battle
>>30145485
He also died over 200 years ago.
>>30145448
Wait a 50mm penetrating 20mm or 40mm?
>>30145498
>cannot into analogy
>>30145460
>tfw no locally sourced small batch hand loaded rounds to fire at my organic paper targets
Not until pic related type shit comes out
So far the only "argument" against it is muh suppressive fire
I really wish 101 would drop airborne out of their title, faggots haven't jumped since the 40s. Change it to air assault or some other shit. Legs...
>>30145629
I thought they did change it to air assault
>>30145619
>Shells that small containing enough explosive to do any damage
>>30145623
Whose arguing anything? Its going to be adopted, but its not going to be the standard weapon because ~36 rounds for a combat load is unacceptable, for the same reasons we don't give everyone an M79. This isn't even an argument.
>>30145314
Nothing really worked at all during ww1
>>30144947
What the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? What kind of question is that? Everyone knows in the future every soldier will have their own flying aircraft carrier with robotic jet pilots.
>>30145669
>what is technological advancement
Go back to your cave, you caveman
>>30145738
>muh hypothetical future tech!
Basically arguing magic at that point. The frag12 was dropped for being too anemic, its got nearly three times the bore diameter of 7.62x39. What makes you think explosive x39 would be useful to anyone?
>>30145778
Instead of small hole in chest cavity there will be a pile of pink goo. Much stopping power
Haji hiding behind wall, blow up wall with bullet
Jamal in car? Blow up car with bullet
Wabbit eating crops? Flashcook with bullet
Many uses
>>30145857
>Blow up wall with bullet
>Blow up car with bullet
You have seen a 7.62 bullet before? How much explosive do you actually expect to be able to cram in there?
>>30145485
Actual quote of Suvorov: "Shoot accurately, strike with bayonet hard."
>>30145137
>thinking that suppressing fire works without knowing the enemy's position or darn close to it
>not realizing that darn close is good enough with explosives
Want to know how I know you were never a grunt?
>>30145857
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXaaybiRiYY
actual exploding shots just cause some more cavitation, they don't do much else
>>30144947
Not substitute, but augment.
>>30145924
Another actual quote of Suvorov: "The bullet is a mad thing; only the bayonet knows what it is about."
>>30144947
>Americans develop handheld greande launcher with 700 meters max range which relies on shooters aim and shoot punny grenades with pathetic HE effect
>Russians develop handheld missiles launcher with target auto tracking and guided kinetic missiles with 10 km range able to pierce anything except MBT frontal armor as universal infantry weapon
>>30145887
>>30145953
Have you no faith in technology?
We have created weapons capable of destroying the world many times over
We have sent a man to the moon
We can talk to someone anywhere in the world on a Mobile device
All things once thought impossible
>>30145094
To blow up the enemy with little grenades you need to first know exactly where he is. 95% of the time you don't. In firefights people don't show themselves conveniently like paper targets on the shooting range.
Why couldn't they just take a single shot break action instead of semi auto?
>>30145857
Even if we could somehow mass produce polymeric nitrogen - by far the most powerful chemical explosive known to man and only synthesized in a handful of labs around the world at huge pressures and temperatures till date - and make it safe for military use, a bullet filled with it would still be far less powerful than today's 40mm grenades, which can't blow up walls or cars either.
>>30145993
>>> MFW Russias new tank is bankrupt
>>30144947
No but it would be a good tool at a platoon level
>>30146036
95% of the time you have a vague idea
You are still carrying quite a few of these rounds.
>>30146476
"Vague idea" means "general direction" which isn't good enough to hit and kill with 25mm grenades. Even 40mm grenades have a lethal radius of just 5m or less. At 300m distance that's barely good enough to compensate for aiming errors for a known and visible target under combat conditions.
>>30144947
Why not XM29? Best of both worlds right?
>>30145014
>not marketing your firearms and ammunition exclusively to hipsters
>not selling "bespoke organic propellant meat harvesting poppers in the 9mm range"
>"The propellant for this box came from a cow named Jerry, who lived a healthy 7 year life, feasting on organic grains and peanuts."
>$300 for 30 rounds
>>30145887
Oddly enough the atf only considers anything containing over 111 grains of explosive a DD, so we could get away with making some pretty crazy explodey rounds with that.
Take one of lehigh defense's controlled fracturing rounds for .50. Its got a hollow point, and would probably generate enough pressure on impact to set off tannerite stuffed into it, even at lower speed.
>>30146923
I'd be a wee bit nervous about the recoil on that sumbitch setting the Tannerite off in the chamber.
>>30146967
There is only one way to find out.
>>30146997
>There is only one way to find out.
Famous last words.
>>30146967
Just wing it, and shoot slowly.
>>30147472
was gonna add a vid link but I forgot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xrnIs9iKQY
>>30146721
It was way too heavy and cumbersome, so they just split the GL portion off and turned it into the XM25
Uhhh guys
How does the grenade know when to blow up if its still in the air?
>>30147759
goat hormone detectors
>>30145498
Can't you follow a simple fucking analogy?
How do you function in the real world?
You guys really believe a small projectile that was launched from high speeds can blow up over targets automatically?
lol
>>30147808
Not quite, they detect goat fecal matter, commonly found covering Arab dicks.
>>30147759
The grenade knows where it is, because it knows where it isn't.
>>30147845
>what are airburst bombs that have existed and been used even earlier than the past two decades
>>30147845
>proximity weapons are a conspiracy!!!!!
actually, they're just something we invented in WW2.
>>30147877
It knows where it isn't, because it knows where it was.
>>30147845
>You guys really believe a small projectile that was launched from high speeds can blow up over targets automatically?
Man, if you ever look up the CBU-97 your head is probably going to explode. And we've had that for ages.
>can be dropped at high speeds
>automatically deploys multiple submunitions
>submunitions automatically seek a tank while falling and then fire an explosively formed penetrator into it
>>30147910
By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation.
>>30147892
That's a three foot long missile, not a 20mm shell. You can make proximity fuzes for small rounds, but there won't hardly be any bang left when it's all said and done.
>>30147961
Yeah, you're pretty fucking stupid.
Feel free to stop posting anytime.
>>30147961
>he thinks that the majority of a TOW missile is the proxy fuze and warhead
>>30147961
>there won't hardly be any bang left when it's all said and done
Proximity fuzes are tiny and explosives are very powerful. The XM25's grenade is the leftmost in this image.
Here's a video showing an XM25 impact: http://www.defensetech.org/2011/04/05/xm-25-blast-radius-revealed/
>>30148000
>gee Raytheon, how come your missile gets TWO warheads?
>>30147759
The weapon works by lasing the target, either above or below the intended place to explode. There are two buttons next to the trigger to add or subtract 1 yard from the lase point. This distance is sent to the grenade to be fired. The user then targets above the target, or through a window and fires. When launched the grenade knows how fast it should be traveling and counts the number of rotations it makes per second in the air. When it reaches the distance/rotations it explodes.
>>30146721
Too big, too heavy.
>>30147845
See >>30148046
It doesn't even use a proximity fuze.
>>30147974
>point out that shoving a radar antenna, processors and power source into the dimensions of a 20-25mm projectile will basically turn it into a low-mass, solid slug with barely any room left over for HE
>get called retarded
Well fuck you too, I bop into the thread and make one post about how putting a prox sensor into a infantry weapon inefficient and you act like a child.
There's not enough space in a projo of that caliber to put in a pox sensor and still have it be useful. Also, what the fuck is it going to be searching for? Bags of water are too low mass to give good radar returns and altitude is not going to give reliable results on something with such a flat trajectory.
Better to just shove a much smaller programmable time fuze and have the weapon calculate flight time with a range finder. At least then you'd have some space left for HE filler.
Stop being a human butt plug.
>>30145080
>20 rds of 25mm
Are we allowing anemics in the Army now?
>>30147759
It counts how many times it spins, when you program a detonation distance the shell knows how many spins that will take.
>>30148093
>Better to just shove a much smaller programmable time fuze and have the weapon calculate flight time with a range finder. At least then you'd have some space left for HE filler.
iirc this is how it actually works.
>>30146451
Unrelated, but what Mother episode is that?
>>30148093
Thanks man thats what i was thinking as well before they explained it was just a laser range finder and a preprogrammed timing
>>30148145
King of the hill*
>>30146923
Do you have a letter stating that?
I can work with 111gr. I want to make shaped charge 12ga rounds
>Will grenade launchers replace rifles?
No. How the fuck are you gonna do close quarters fighting, suppressive fire or precision shots with these. They fill the same role as grenade launchers, which are squad support weapons given to a limited amount of people per squad - for a good reason.
>>30144947
no, they won't substitute normal rifles, they will replace them entirely, but not the xm25
the xm25 is an airburst grenade launcher, which can defeat some cover. Currently it is too expensive to be cost-effective, but eventually it will be, and then you will see more of it.
The real replacement to rifles will be guided man-portable munitions. Right now these are bulky and expensive, but they will improve and get cheaper. This will let us hit people from farther distances than we can now, and defeat most cover they can take. They will also require a lot less skill to hit targets than we need right now.
What you are going to see in the future is optics, smart munitions, robotics, and information sharing. Optics will find targets and track them, smart munitions will make cover less relevant than it is now, robotics will make wars less expensive, and information sharing will make wars truly terrifying.
Have you seen the little general dynamics dogs? the ones that learn how to walk with a leg destroyed and can climb stairs and shit? Yeah those are coming. Only with really good optics and weapons systems on them. That should be scary enough, but it doesn't end there. Killin one will be impossible, because all you have to do is armor the computer and the battery. The rest of the system can be hurt, sure, but you dont kill it that way you just downgrade its capabilities. It loses a gas engine? it runs on battery power until it is out. You take out a leg? it figures out how to crawl? you take out four legs? it still shoots back. You take out the gun? it watches you and reports your location. Now for the scary part:
You take out the optics? it still fires at you. it can use its buddies Information sharing capabilities to keep getting rounds on target.
(1/2)
>>30148440
Youre going to see this in logistics first, self-driving LMTV's and HEMETT's that are unarmored with CROW systems. It will eliminate the need to armor the whole truck, and to send humans to drive those deathtraps. Instead the only humans will be in the guntrucks, and eventually even those will be automated. It will change how we run convoys.
Right now if you ambush a convoy the convoy tries to run, because its hard to figure out where you are and it takes time to react. Soon it will be immediate, as soon as a round comes in, multiple systems track it, and triangulate its position. In under a second a mortar can be fired at the exact grid of the origin. All weapon systems can immediately fire in the direction of the threat, without the current figuring out of where the rounds are coming from. Now imagine that same system mounted on little ATV doggo's, hunting you down.
>>30148197
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-national-firearms-act-definitions-1
It says 1/4 oz is the limit. I correct myself, its about 109 grains of explosive.
>>30145505
25mm penetrating 50mm of armour
>>30145448
>thermobaric
If serious, we need these fucking things just for that.
>>30145650
Air Assault is helicopters.
>>30148440
>>30148471
Now imagine that you get smart and ambush a robo-convoy with a full company or equivalent. The robots will have no hesitation in calling in an airstrike on their position because robots do not fear death. They will also have datalink compatibility with loitering missile truck bombers such as B-52s or B-1Bs.
>>30145002
think about it how much is it to make and the rounds too. ya the 101 had them but what about all the infantry, training from the ground up again, ya sotf uses them but there a smaller group
>>30148440
>>30148471
>mfw
>>30149998
exactly, it will take war an change it to more of an economic game, where once the reward outweighs the risk of assets lost, you can do shit like suicide charges. You see it already with our new Air Force doctrine, having drones go in first so that when they get shot down we can identify SAAM sites and target them
>>30148093
It doesn't even use a proximity fuze.
See >>30148046
>>30147961
>Technology can't be miniaturized
Boy, you've not been paying attention for a few decades have you?
>>30145521
>>30147844
His point was that it was a shitty false analogy, you idiots
>>30148244
?
Why can't you do all those things with the XM25
>>30147351
>...for science...
Humanity learns from the deaths and accidents of others.
>>30148042
>I have become death, destroyer of worlds
>>30146721
I legitimately just got finished MN masturbating to that thing.
>>30151929
>have rangefinder in the gun
>have timing mechanism in the round
>gun calculates the amount of time it will take for the round to be above the target
>this information is transmitted to the round
>???????
>freedom haters get turned into hamburger meat
>>30145161
This. Let it develop and miniaturize. Even though a small part of still wants to see m79s in use.
>>30145619
dat sight over bore
>>30147943
the guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the projectile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the projectile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the projectile must also know where it was.
The projectile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the projectile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
>>30148471
I cant recall but i read in a book "that mountain looked like it was moving" because of all those japs running towards their beach or was it koreans anyway we definitely had planes, hekicopter, and grenades, barrel bombing whatever the case if eventually to say we now have a use to the drones. You know im not even allowed to be using a computer so fuck you.
>>30145014
>Christ the hipsters have even gotten to the Army, did they also use locally produced organic explosives?
>Low-volume production of a special round that only fits one weapon still in testing phase
>Expecting full factory production line
>>30145611
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBb9O-aW4zI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmLp9Mn-5rg
