The US Army will move ahead with a tender to replace the M9 with the Modular Handgun System.
Down select for three manufacturers later this year. No word on calibre, but it seems it'll either be 9x19mm or .40 S&W.
Those offering:
Beretta - APX
CZ - P-09
FN Herstal - Five-Seve Mk 2
Glock - Glock 17/22
SIG Sauer - P320
Smith & Wesson - MP
Which three would you down select?
http://www.janes.com/article/60814/us-army-moves-ahead-with-handgun-replacement-programme
>>30134458
>Beretta - APX
>Glock - Glock 17/22
>SIG Sauer - P320
>>30134463
Ditto. Maybe CZ instead of Beretta but I trust both.
>>30134458
Glock
Sig
S&W
>>30134458
>CZ
>Five Seven
This little blogger just pulled random gun names out of their ass.
>>30134458
>9mm or .40
>Include fibe sebben in your list.
>>30134458
>Glock - Glock 17/22
>SIG Sauer - P320
>CZ - P-09
No contest.
Glocks especially can take RETARDED amounts of abuse.
Super not fond of Berettas, but I can't say way. They feel... wrong.
>>30134519
The apx looks like a hi-point, no way it'll win the contest
>>30134519
Retarded amounts of abuse. Like 40 short and weak?
A large variety of pistols were entered into the competition. These include the:
United States: STI-Detonics STX [15]
United States: KRISS USA announced its entry into the program using a variant of their Sphinx SDP platform.[16]
United States: Smith & Wesson M&P chambered in .40 S&W; in co-operation with General Dynamics[17]
Switzerland: SIG Sauer P320 chambered in .357 SIG
Belgium: FN Herstal Five-seveN MK2 chambered in FN 5.7×28mm.[18]
Austria: Glock 17 Gen4 and 22 Gen4
Germany: Heckler & Koch VP9 and VP40
Germany: Carl Walther PPQ M2 chambered in 9 mm NATO and .40 S&W
Italy: Beretta which will not enter the improved M9A3, instead competing with their new APX striker fired pistol chambered in 9 mm NATO and .40 S&W.
Czech Republic: CZ P-09 MHS chambered in 9 mm NATO and .40 S&W.
From wikipedia. These are the people who are in the competition.
They opened it up to any caliber also.
Prt1
>“We’re not figuring out the next lunar landing. This is a pistol. Two years to test? At $17 million?” Milley said to an audience at a Washington, D.C., think tank on March 10. “You give me $17 million on a credit card, and I’ll call Cabela’s tonight, and I’ll outfit every soldier, sailor, airman and Marine with a pistol for $17 million. And I’ll get a discount on a bulk buy.”
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2016/03/27/army-chief-you-want-new-pistol-send-me-cabelas-17-million/82132450/
>>30134560
Prt2
My personal bet is on the Sig p320 because of its Actual modularity which is what the army wants. Different grip and slides not just back straps you can put on.
Also for calibers the p320 comes in 9 40 and 357 Sig so no matter what they choose they are covered.
Why bother? Nobody uses handguns anyway. If its a weight thing, just put out a tender for polymer M9 frames and use them to upgrade existing stocks. I don't get this sudden need to piss money away on things that perform identically to what they are replacing, like with the m110 being replaced by that csass thing.
>>30134458
The S&W, Glock and new Beretta all look like great choices (but then again, muhreens would ND like crazy without a manual safety, so maybe the Beretta wins out again anyway)
I pray to god they have the sense to ignore the Five Seven.
>>30134609
You sound like a child. .40 and 357 sig have 0 chance of winning. 0 chance. I need you to repeat that out loud. 0 chance. A pistol is the least important thing an army needs. No one actually uses pistols unless they are higher up and to lazy to carry a rifle.
>>30134626
If your department doesn't use all of your allotted budget it gets cut by congress. Have to find something to spend it on to make sure you get the same amount (or more) next time around.
>>30134638
>muhreens would ND like crazy without a manual safety
This. SOF get to choose their sidearms in most cases because they're actually competent, trusting grunts not to pull the trigger randomly is a bridge too far.
>system
Just call it a fucking modular pistol and stop being gay already.
>>30134648
You could spend it on training instead. I'd rather have a unit shoot an extra 1600 rounds of 5.56 a years each, than to have them outfitted with a handgun.
>>30134651
Except most grunts don't get pistols.
>>30134644
>/k/ in 1983
You sound like a child. 9mm has 0 chance of winning. 0 chance. I need you to repeat that out loud. 0 chance. A pistol is the least important thing an army needs. No one actually uses pistols unless they are higher up and to lazy to carry a rifle.
>>30134674
Yea I meant .40 has a 0% chance of winning
>>30134667
Yeah they totally could, but buying new shit is way more fun.
>>30134674
He's right. 9mm is 100% going to win out
>>30134674
It was a waste of cash then too desu.
>>30134519
Maybe you have small hands?
>>30134530
Looks pretty solid to me.
>>30134626
Existing stocks of M9 pistols in US Armed Forces armories are mostly worn out and at the end of their service lives, that's why they're getting replaced.
>>30134679
And I'm saying that in the 80s when the military was looking to replace the M1911A1, there were probably people saying that the 9mm had no chance. And guess what? 9mm won.
five seven because counter strike
It is not aloud to be any caliber other than 9mm. Do you really think the US would choose 357 SIG? Are you actually that blatantly noguns?Please abandon dumb thread.
Only the DoD could make choosing a fucking 9mm so complicated.
IMO the Sig is the best choice. The military will want something with a manual safety anyway, and the swappable internals and frames will make maintenance much easier to deal with.
They SHOULD have just kept the M9 and upgraded to the A3 model.
Another alternative would be going with the Glock 19, as I think they moved away from the Beretta because strong independent womyn MPs were complaining that the Berettas were too big for their strong independent hands.
>>30134706
>aloud
Father forgive me because I've taken the bait
>>30134703
Yea but your an idiot of you think .40 or .357 sig will beat 9mm.
If FN really make Five-sevens in 9mm and .40 and regardless of whether it won, made them available to the public.
Would you buy one?
It is pretty much going to be Glock.
Though the Sig actually meets most of the crazy requirements.
Though Smith and Wesson could get it by "murican jobs" lobbying
>>30134713
Yes aloud, as in authorized. As in 9mm is an authorized nato cartridge. .40 and .357 sig are not.
>>30134734
>Allowed
PADRE STOP MY SINFUL HAND
>>30134743
No aloud
>>30134728
No. The five seven is pot metal wrapped in plastic. It's delayed blowback so it's essentially hipoint tier at that point.
>>30134721
That's not even an argument.
>>30134755
>even
Get aload of this fella
>>30134606
>buying guns in bulk from a retailer...
idiot.
>implying it won't be SIG
>implying the best thing to put on a burger isn't cheese
>implying what ammo they want/need really matters when the p320 can be modified for using different ammo with just a few minutes of work
>anything other than czechnology
sig maybe, if it weren't exetershit
>>30134679
>>30134689
>>30134697
"One of the major goals of the effort is to adopt a pistol chambered for a more potent round than the current 9mm"
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/04/07/army-moves-ahead-with-pistol-program-despite-chiefs-pushback.html
Glock 19 MOS, with appropriately large tritium sights. So the Army can be ahead of the curve on pistol trends.
then they just have to find a reflex sight and a new holster.
>>30134794
That's blatantly untrue. 9mm is not aloud to be replaced. .40 fans btfo yet again by 9mm
>>30134458
The idea of a Sig or FN service pistol gives me an erection.
>>30134794
they could just go to solid copper hollow points in +P+. Which not only make great big ungoldy wound cavities, but will also sail through iiia body armor.
>>30134775
>SIG P320
>Not knowing it's wholly an Exter NH design
Noguns detected.
I think M&P is gonna get it.
-9mm
-Basically a Glawk
-Interchangable grips for little girl hands
-Plastic fantastic
-American company
-Manual safety on some models (although a shitty one)
-Full/Compact/Subcompact
-General Dynamics partnered with them for maximum lobbying power
>>30134811
Hollow points are banned in warfare per the Geneva convention don't be a fag that's why they want explore other caliber a for ball ammo
>>30134838
Actually the DoD recently opened that up. We weren't signatories to that part of the Geneva Convention - and don't forget the last decade's clusterfuck over what is a "lawful combatant" and what isn't.
>>30134838
It is Hauge that bans expanding ammo, and the US isn't signed onto that. We just observe it by coincidence.
>>30134458
>FN 5-7
>not the FNS
what the fuck government
>it's a Jane's link
Pure speculation with not a single iota of fact-finding in it.
But, just to humor you,
-Glock 19 (yes I know it's not on the list but every single SOF has already adopted it)
-Sig P320
-S&W M&P
As much as I like CZ's, unless they do something radically different than their production pistols they'll turn into balls of rust in the cages. I don't know why CZ can't into 1800's tier weapon finishes.
>>30134802
I can't tell if you're a troll or a salty 9mmfag that gets super fucking defensive at the prospect of his favorite round being replaced.
>>30134811
And will negate any of the 'less wear on the gun' arguments that 9mm supporters claim. Although it is time for the .mil to adopt something that will go through IIIA type armor. I'm not necessarily for replacing 9mm, but all these people innathread saying it's not possible need to look at how similar shit was being said about .45 during the JSSAP competition before the public knew that one of the goals of the program was to look for something exclusively not .45 ACP. I think it's a real possibility that they choose something else, especially in .40 where manufacturers definitely have the infrastructure to produce it in large quantities for reasonable prices.
>>30134701
>Maybe you have small hands?
Maybe. It never got pointed out to me.
>>30134531
Very funny.
>>30134855
I'm actually really surprised they aren't submitting the FNX. I'd be very happy with that.
>>30134754
>Highpoint tier
>Implying that's a bad thing
![maxresdefault[5].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TK4c9cS.jpg "maxresdefault[5].jpg")
>>30134828
>>30134838
-it's the Hague Accords, not the Geneva Convention, that prohibited expanding ammo
-we're not signatories on either
-it only covers conventional warfare between the uniformed militaries of signator nations (both nations had to sign)
-it only covered "offensive weapons" and literally no military ever has considered a pistol or other sidearm an offensive weapon
-military police have been using hollowpoints, just like every other LEA ever, for the last 40 years, including in combat zones
>>30134606
That's fucking stupid on all levels.
>>30134871
So would I, but with the trials being opened up to striker pistols for pretty much the first time ever, they do make a better military handgun. The FNS is the better fit for general issue.
>>30134863
.40sw is already being dropped by American LEO because it really provides no benefit.
There is also the NATO concern. All those former Warsaw nations that joined NATO, just went to 9x19 pistols with in the last 10-15 years. All those nations would also be dependent on American logistics train in case of war.
>>30134458
Edu/k/ate me: the difference between a pistol and a modular handgun system is what exactly?
>>30134892
Bureaucratic lingo
>>30134885
I won't contest that, I just like muh single action. Plus it's the functional equivalent of a 21st century M9.
>>30134458
Does it really matter? As a grunt the only time i see an M9 is when PMO comes rolling around.
>>30134881
the only thing that is stupid is the Cabela's part.
Just go with Glock, since SOCOM already uses it over the 92.
>>30134909
>the only thing that is stupid is the Cabela's part.
That's somehow not egregious enough?
>Just go with Glock, since SOCOM already uses it over the 92.
Agreed.
>>30134892
they want something like the Sig p320. So they can buy one pistol and some parts. To have it fit small hands, eat multiple calibers, and turn into a CC piece for CID.
It is kind of stupid and seems to be design to fail. So they can then spend even more money and time to go with a Glock.
>>30134902
I love me some FNX.
>why they won't make an FNX9 Tactical is beyond me
>>30134502
>janes
>blogger
>>30134458
I'll be honest OP, I've owned a few of those. I recognize all of the models, except one. So I just looked it up, what in the fuck were they doing at Beretta? Trying to make an ugly step sister for the Smith and Wesson sd9ve? Fuck, is there a term for a gun, similar to butter face? Or is there some kind of competition between the manufacturers to always make polymer guns their most unattractive?
Why?
>>30134946
>>30134648
Thought that was changing with the 'Every Penny Counts' programme/initiative. Rather than it being slashed at the end of a FY they would pool surplus budget and you could apply for funding out of it for stuff.
Or something like that. Prevents retarded spending in Q4 every year.
>>30134929
>programme
>calibre
May as well be, since they couldn't even be bothered to get an American to write the piece.
>>30134890
>.40 S&W is being dropped like a hot potato and has been scientifically proven to provide no benefit over already existing options
Sounds like just what the Army wants desu.
>>30134458
The Glock is the only logical choice. Grenade and gun in one. Shoot till it's empty, pull the hammer back, count three seconds and throw. Get another glock. Repeat.
>>30134458
>eval program called the PVT Programme
I just envisioned them handing out a dozen of each pistol to a group of lower enlisted and going "here, break these"
>>30134960
>>30134918
Right?
The glock and the M&P are the only logical choices here.
>>30134980
You are right, I forgot that you have to set the safety first.
>>30134915
I can see the making it fit part, but what purpose for multiple pistol calibers does our military have?
>>30134732
But Glock has a factory in Georgia which would produce all of the contract pistols.
>>30134458
I would go M&P. It is most likely the cheapest, and its light and holds 17 rounds. It is reliable enough and the safety isn't retarded. (the army one will have a safety no matter what) so if I was a general id go with the M&P
>>30134881
im gonna go with "what is hyperbole"for 500 alex.
A general saying that picking a non shitty service pistol should be easier than 17 million over 2 years is anything but stupid
If they were any smart they would go with a blued, 6 shot .38 with a 4 inch barrel.
If by some magnitude of stupidity, they accept the Five seveN, would 5.7mm become cheaper for civilians?
>>30134560
>HK entered the VP9
I love mine, but does anyone really believe it's a good choice for military use?
>>30135016
In case the Army wants to chance calibers after they buy pistols.
>>30134458
>Sig P320 wins
>Beretta offers a cheaper APX
Beretta wins again!
>>30135055
Yes.
>>30135086
The Beretta was the superior gun, get over it.
>>30135028
and it has a shitty trigger from the factory, just like the army wants.
>>30134728
No. The ergonomics on the Five-Seven are terrible. If it's not shooting a meme cartridge, why would anyone want one in the first place?
>>30134458
Probably the P320, M&P, and GLAWK.
If CZ is actually entering the P-09 that would be cool, maybe it will get it some recognition and the aftermarket will increase.
>>30134747
Holy fuck let this be bait
>>30134946
But the whole slide is serrated for maximum grip.
>>30134458
>17 million
>2 years
Jesus Christ this is a waste of money and time, this is basically the equivalent of construction companies building bridges and roads nobody use or need.
>>30135153
>BREETTA
>Glock 17
Because I don't feel like defrauding tax payers to pay for something expensive and maintenance heavy that will be rarely used anyway.
Surplus m9 when?
>>30135212
>Believing the government will let you have surplus guns.
Those pistols will probably go to moderate rebels somewhere.
>>30135107
>According to a GAO report, Beretta was awarded the M9 contract for the 92F due to a lower total package price. The P226 cost less per pistol than the 92F, but SIG's package price with magazines and spare parts was higher than Beretta's. The Navy SEALs, however, later chose to adopt the P226.
>>30135212
What a terrible idea to buy a 25 year old mistreated m9
>>30134885
>better
When the military demands you throw a manual safety on it anyway what's the fucking point?
A consistent shit pull instead of shit then 15 good ones?
>>30135239
>>30135245
But it's the only pistol I've ever shot.:(
>>30135281
Just get a fresh one. Like wiping your arse with silk.
>>30135212
apparently never.
>govt PAYS companies to demill surplus 9x19mm NATO, instead of DMRO'ing them to the public and recouping a partial loss on taxpayers money
>still no CMP 1911's
you can always hope, but sometimes shitheads in DC dont want anyone to have any fun.
>>30135153
Now they just need to partner with/buy Springfield Armory.
>APX slide serrations
>GRIP ZONE
>even higher bore axis
>>30135271
I wouldn't consider the FNS trigger shit. I'd say it's on par with a factory Glock trigger (though nowhere near as good as a Glockworx or Ghost aftermarket) and orders of magnitude better than a stock M&P (and only marginally worse than an Apex aftermarket).
I really don't think the FNX has a significantly better trigger, even in single action, than the FNS. Somehow they managed to make the SA too long and the DA is worse than the FNS's. And because it'll be a military contract gun it'll have a worse trigger than its civilian counterpart, just like M9 vs 92F/FS/G
>>30134502
CZ was in it at some point. They submitted 9mm and .40 versions of the P09, but I thought they dropped out
Pic related was their submission
>>30135787
This is patently false, the last news of a replacement, is the chief of staff is abandoning the contest and trying to get a similar contract that usasoc currently has with glock 19s.
But you faggots wouldn't know that, because yall only play pretend soldier
>>30134704
But the p250 is better desu
>>30135828
>didn't read the article
>>30134708
Tbf for a 9mm with 15+1 capacity the beretta's are borderline xbox-huge.
It's heavy as shit compared to a lot of its competitors and feels bulky.
That said, mine's a tack driver. So I guess it does what it is supposed to.
>>30135936
They have made flush fit 18s and slightly potruding 20 round magazines for the 92 for years now.
>>30134828
The manual safety can be shitty, they just want a visual indicator that the gun is "safe".
It could be a simple paddle like the taurus millenium, or even the hipoint little lever.
It won't matter, if it has a trigger safety I doubt they would use the manual safety in practice anyway.
>>30135828
>In April, US Army Chief of Staff General Mark Milley suggested procuring 9x19 mm Glock 19 handguns to replace legacy Beretta M9 handguns instead of a more complicated modified solution in line with the MHS original solicitation.
Him suggesting it doesn't mean it's going to happen. Not even the Chief of Staff can stop the monster that is Army Procurement
>>30135953
Do they actually issue those though? Or are they best to shit like the other 90% are?
It always amazes me that despite exceedingly rare use every officer I've seen has one that looks like it took a ride in a turbine
>>30134560
The STI-Detonics STX is the only interesting pistol on that list.
It not only meets all of the criteria, but it is also the only metal framed pistol on the list.
I think that gives it an edge with the old school military brass.
Whether they could actually produce enough to fill the contract is another story.
>>30135893
>complimenting the p250
>on /k/
You're asking for trouble.
>>30135953
But those were never and will never be purchased under military contract, so for all purposes the M9 is 15+1.
>>30136052
lolno
>looks like it took a ride in a turbine
Most of them have been in the military arsenal for 30ish years. That's 30 years of sitting in a metal rack in a non-climate-controlled room and being buttfucked by a salty E5 or E6 armorer. And that's before they got issued to some random-assed lower enlisted machine/turret gunner in Iraq or Afghanistan for anywhere from 11-14 years.
>CZ
>Glock
>S&W
if they adopt .40, i'll have lost all hope.
Five Seven because fuck you I want cheap ammo for my PS90
>>30137201
15$-20$ for 50 isn't cheap?
>>30137251
Of the good stuff, though.
>>30137201
......did not consider this. ..........
>>30134890
It's not that hard to add a single new round to the inventories, and the 9mm won't be replaced overnight. Also, because of costs, I doubt expanding ammo would be standard issue. We would most likely go with FMJ for most purposes. USCG already uses FMJ .40, but I forgot the designation they use right now. It's Mk 3XX IIRC.
>>30137160
I hope they do because I just want to watch the internet world burn.
>>30137263
Define good stuff. I'm buying lead free and blue tip for 18$. Ameagle for 16$
>>30137421
oh god that would be one of the, if not the greatest rustling of jimmies ever.
every FUDD would simultaneously combust from the rage over the govt not readopting the 1911.
SIG Sauer P320 is the obvious choice
Theres no need or purpose for pistols in the military
I was thinking about this because of the beretta M9 thread
I feel like the military should issue side arms that are fully auto in a small caliber like .25 or .32, and a large magazine
They should also have a secondary 20 gauge shotgun with 3 or 4 rounds
this would be a more favorable gun, it could provide cover and be used for close quarters, also could have a folding/expandable stock so that it is used as a carbine
>>30137945
O you want an M4 with a master key under it and a shorter barrel, basically
>>30137987
No think of a beretta 93 Raffica chambered in 25, so there is like no recoil, with a scorpion wire folding shoulder stock, and somehow a shotgun, maybe singleshot, on there for flares and opening doors,
>>30138038
Our friends in Italy have you covered.
>>30138247
yea like this but with 40 rounds, would wreck face
Beretta could have taken it already if they just made PX4 with M9 magazines
>>30135212
Only for Achmed and his "moderate" friends.
>>30135281
Buy a brand new 92A1, then get a full steel guide rod, and optionally a Brigadier slide for coop points and +P+ shooting.
It'll be miles beyond an M9 at the end of it's service life, the ones they have are just finished, that's not something you want.
Optionally, if it's expense you're concerned with, buy a Taurus PT92, then buy MecGar magazines (Taurus mags are often shoddy, but the PT92 is pretty good in itself)
>>30137945
That's a shitty concept for a modern field of combat.
>>30139281
So is a semi-automatic handgun, yet here we are.
>>30134458
P320 all the way. Fuck glocks and their retarded fanboys.
>>30140091
Service pistols are essentially useless in a modern military. They are used either as symbols of superiority for officers or weapons of last resort for servicemen with jobs that don't allow them ready access to a rifle.
>>30134458
My money is on Beretta pulling through. They're good guns, and will honestly be able to offer them for cheaper than anyone else
>>30134458
>S&W M&P
Because it's just as good and my tax dollars should show preference for American companies.
>Glock
Because it's boring and works.
>SIG 320
Because it is in fact a modular system.
I would not pick the 5.7 because lol, I would not pick the p-09 because reasons and I would not pick the APX because I don't even know what it is.
Seriously though, unless another company can show real benefit over the M&P (great if they can) then it should be an absolute no brainer to get the M&P.
I just fucking hate beretta. They've even got the coolest logo but I hate their guns, just something about them.
I think they should all get M&Ps but consider that the Marines will have to have something special because "Muhreens!" and then the AirForce and Navy will probably want something special because the Marines got something special. Then the army will probably get Glocks and SOCOM will have to switch to something else because they can't use grunt guns. Eventually the Marines will settle in on the 1911. The army will get mad put lasers and extendos on all their Glocks. The Air Force will try to do something to be cool and probably get the most retarded looking gun they can find, (pic related), and SOCOM will probably look back fondly at the mk23 and just issue everyone the biggest HK pistol they can get, likely an mp7 which will be worn on a thigh rig at all times. The Navy will ask SIG for something that special and won't rust and get talked into some gun with a rainbow oil slick finish with diamond plate texture.
When will a decision be made ?
I have read about this for years now.
>People wanting M&P to be issued sidearm
FYI, the M9/92FS is much easier to field strip than that fucking thing is.
>>30140843
>that takedown
>that shit trigger
Has anyone advocating the Smith ever shot one before? It's "marginally acceptable" as a combat handgun at the very best.
>>30140504
>I just fucking hate beretta. They've even got the coolest logo but I hate their guns, just something about them.
I wouldn't say I hate them myself. I own and love a 92FS, but I didn't buy it because it's a Beretta. I bought it because it fits.
Every other handgun they produce in this age looks like ass, and I don't like any of them.
>>30140874
I keep hearing people talk shit about the shield trigger but everyone I've shot has had a fine trigger. The only ones that sucked were ones I finger fucked in the case. They have a break in period. Also they aren't hard to breakdown, like at all. You have to move 2 levers.. oooooh 2 levers.
>>30140843
>>30140874
Out of pure curiosity, what is so difficult for you two when field stripping an M&P?
>>30134960
>>30134993
>hammer
>safety
>glock has neither...
>NOGUNS DETECTED.
>>30141018
>2
I think you need to divide that by half.
>>30141048
Either way, stop stalling and explain what you think is so difficult about field stripping an M&P.
>>30134560
>Who I think are likely contenders
Sig P320, modular, strong, Sig has a good track record with the military.
S&W M&P. They're strong, American made, famed name, cheap and sturdy as any of the rest.
>Who I want as contenders
CZ P09. I love CZ and those are good guns, I'd love to see it.
STI STX. Not only is it built ground-up to be the ridiculously modular pistol they want (Different slides, barrels, and grips almost on a higher degree than the Sig), my body is so, so ready for the angled, sexy futuristic cyberpunk 1911 for our military
>What we'll probably get
Glock, because fuck it, let's have the ugly cheap bricks with no ergonomics, because it's not like anyone uses the pistols fucking anyhow. Why have nice things?
>>30134458
The DHS has already been using Sig Sauers, it'd make sense for the P229 to get a .mil contract. Hell, the USCG gets P229 DAKs, because apparently they don't want us to be able to fucking hit anything.
>>30141080
I'm not sure as someone who has cleaned them. Maybe the little lever you have to push down inside the mag well to really take it down? Not hard unless you've never been taught to do it.
As for the trigger, apex is fine. Do think, a Smith would be American made, have a good name brand, and probably the cheapest of all the options. That puts it quite a leg up.
>>30134463
>>30134475
I agree with the both of you
>>30141261
>Maybe the little lever you have to push down inside the mag well to really take it down? Not hard unless you've never been taught to do it.
That's for the spergs who shit themselves pulling the trigger on an unloaded weapon. You don't need to touch that lever to remove the slide.
>>30141429
Wait, really? Thanks for the hot tip, that's how it read in the manual so I always did it. I'll just pull the trigger, then.
>>30140091
I mean, it's a lot more practical than a fully-auto mouse gun with a stock for what a pistol is meant to do in regular force-com.
I'd like to see a move back to revolvers, a .357 or something.
>>30134458
I wish so badly it would be something in 10mm
>P320
>CZ
>Five Seven
>TFW FN five seven is now 9mm/.40
OK
>>30134606
He's right, you know.
>>30134871
The Army specifically excluded squishy guns in the request for trials submissions.
>>30142524
Retard.
>>30134728
You mean if they made a FNS/FNX in 5.7
Bunch of slack-jawed faggots in here
>>30136865
>But those were never and will never be purchased under military contract, so for all purposes the M9 is 15+1.
Then what the fuck is the point of bringing up the capacity or any other pistols capacity if they don't want a factory part with a higher capacity. You have zero evidence to support that they would not use a part that they could easily request as part of the package
>>30137608
Even better than the "over 9000 penises" incident on Oprah? Because that was beautiful.
>yfw they actually go with the Five-Seven.
>>30143190
It'll be a happening of our very own. Sure Zim-Zam was fun but that was /pol/'s day in the sun.
>>30143212
>implying the military will EVER adopt coated casings in anything
>>30134674
.40 has 0% chance
9mm will win
>>30143229
>.40 gets adopted by meme magic
>everyone hype for piles and piles of 9mm surplus
>lol no
>it all goes into the furnace or sent to 'moderate' rebels
>US arms replacement program
The trick is to be least successful and have 'Made in America' stamped on the side
>>30137608
No, more like those people who shit on .40 will all of a sudden be going on and on about how it makes sense and .40 is a good round again.
>>30143303
Because widespread military adoption sure made 'lol only 9mm' fags shut up.
>>30134960
>Glock
>Hammer
No funs reveals himself in a most pathetic way.
>>30143309
True, regardless, it will give us something else to shitpost about for a good 20 years.
>>30135212
Literally never.
If you hands are too small to carry a M9 you probably shouldn't be in the military
lil baby handed fucks probably cant even eat a whopper..probably have to two hand cans of rip it.
also
>small arms being important in warfare
>listening to lobbyists
>not just giving everyone M4s with flat tops and optics
>>30143303
This. These faggots move from meme to meme without any thought to intellectual consistency.
>>30134458
Glawk.
Glawk.
and... um...
GLAWK BRAND GLAWK!
>>30143292
As I understand it, the purpose of the program which the XM8 came out of was to put pressure on their M4/M16 receiver supplier to lower their prices.
This Pistol Program is in a different situation where the pistols are no longer being procured, are running out of service life, and need to either be replaced by a newer iteration of the same pistol or a new pistol.
Additionally, I suppose a similar program will take place once the M249s in inventory are completely fallen apart (so, a couple years I suppose, haha). Is anyone here privy to the current state of the LSAT program? Last I heard there were doing telescoped polymer case ammunition and had a carbine variant as well as a SAW variant.
Haven't basically all of the special forces units converted to Glock 19s by now?
Could work to Glocks favour.
>>30134747
Nice Reddit KenM-level bait my man
>>30134765
You must be wound tight I bet you are fun to hang around. How could you not catch his sarcasm. This board is getting retarded.
>>30134747
>>30144134
Haha fuck white people.
>>30134881
At $500 per pistol, you'd need about $580M to select your options. I'd think that Glock would jump at $500/gun for G17 Gen4's. Even if they broke even, the marketing alone (America's NEW Service Pistol) would make their sales soar, especially if they factory customized the model for the military (better sights, for one thing).
>>30134458
Pulling for p320. Maybe mags will get cheaper. We all know it's going Glock though
>>30134870
I've got small hands and the M9 feels incredibly awkward to me, but that's just my opinion.
>>30134908
Our 240 gunners draw M9's surprisingly enough.
>>30134458
>FN Herstal - Five-Seve Mk 2
>yfw body armor penetration test
>>30144172
I can see the changeable grip size modules to being a huge plus. Maybe that can be another logistical problem but the m9 is known to be too big for smaller hands
gyro jet when?
>>30135242
>price is absolutely the deciding factor, not the fact that the pistols were generally equivalent and one turned out to be cheaper.
It's almost as if you forgot that we use million dollar ordinance on a 16 dollar tent.
>>30134458
>Five-seveN
>up for a shot at being the sidearm of the Army
I'ma cry if they don't. That's 20 shots standard of fuck basic armor, and it's retarded low weight. Everything else is just going from one slug dispenser to a differently shaped slug dispenser with a different brand on it.
>>30134721
.40 FMJ has much better penetration through dense material (clothing/walls) than 9mm and .45 is capable of.
Honestly, I'm really hoping the Glock 22 gets the pick for this, and for a few reasons.
>Glocks are simple, easy, and pretty reliable, therefore it makes a decent service sidearm
>.40's main job is to be a 10mm Auto with less recoil and a generally shorter cartridge. When FMJ's are your only choice of ammo, the capabilities of a .40 outweigh the 2-3 extra rounds of 9mm.
>closest thing to Glock 20 master race
>>30144466
I think it's an interesting round for the other guns it fits in. The P-90 and ar-57 are game changers.
Out a pistol it offers ammo commonality but not a lot of extra performance compared to other slug dispensers.
Maybe something basic is what they want.
*cough*1911*cough*
>>30134458
Screen cap this the new wepon will have higher rate of fire and a larger mag then the 9mils
>>30144439
Never. As it should be.
>>30135153
>"BREETA"
it all makes sense
>>30134644
>too lazy to carry a rifle
Buttmad boot detected.
Tell me, how upset are you that TSgts like me get to walk around the base sporting our sweet holster queens while you have to tote around your M4 literally everywhere?
>>30144726
Not him, but it was fun going on the main base from the SF compound with no patches and a Mk 23.
>>30141197
Finally someone talking about the STI STX.
It's by far the best design submitted.
It was designed to meet the requirements not just something already on the market and seems close.
It's also the only metal framed pistol submitted.
I would love for it to win since it's not only interesting it really seems to be an evolution in handgun design.
The FNS/FNX are the obvious choice yet they're not on there.
I would like to see them select the glock so they finally put a fucking safety on the damn thing. I'm sick of getting glocklegged.
>>30145169
I doubt they can manufacture the desired number if pistols in a timely fashion though
They aren't exactly Glock-level in terms of manufacturing capacity
Marines get 1911
Army gets Glock
Navy gets 320
Airforce gets 5.7
SOCOM switches to thigh rig mounted mp7
>>30145254
>SOCOM
>MP7
>implying anyone who actually operates wants the MP7
>>30134811
m/39b
Which I guess is one point in the Glock's favour.
>>30134560
If the STX wins I will be so happy. But they would probably need to purchase more machinery to produce enough guns.
Why did HK enter the VP9 instead of the P30 or something? Is it just because the VP9 is cheaper?
>>30145437
m/39b isn't bad ballistically, but it absolutely beats the shit out of pistols, you can buy it here in Sweden on a regular pistol shooting license, and it's dirt cheap, but nobody buys it because it's bad for your pistol usually.
I figure a Glock or M&P would handle it, but expect to go through barrels and springs at a much higher rate, the stuff is hot, and the steel jacket is tough on your rifling.
When Will They Make A Decision ?!
>>30145807
Read the article count nignogula, it says by the 3rd quarter of 2016 they will narrow the results down to 3.
>>30134458
even though it has no chance of happening, I would love those just for the reaction
>>30146765
I'm holding out for 10mm Auto to win
>>30134458
APX is pure sex
>>30147605
>APX is pure sex
It is literally the ugliest fucking pistol I have ever seen.
>>30134644
this. people think the modern army is going to swap out of 9mm? really? even if they turn a profit on their 9mm stockpile, why bother going thru the effort to sell it when (in terms of soldiers on the ground actually using their pistol) it's the 2nd least used weapon in the arsenal next to the old mossburgs getting rusty in the arms rooms?
yes, the m9 needs to be replaced, but fuck it, take the cheapest bidder for a universally usable 9mm pistol, it doesnt fucking matter. they will do whatever is cheapest and requires the least effort.
>the guys who think the army is suddenly going to give everyone xm25s if that program goes thru
>>30143222
What's wrong with coated casings?
>>30147676
Still better looking than a Glock. I'm just happy that they finally moved the manual safety.
Whens the APX gonna hit store shelves? I love me some Berettas.
>>30147676
JESUS CHRIST that looks like shit
Five Seven so the Army can adopt the P90 as a tanker gun
Mark my fucking words
>>30134463
ditto
>>30134458
Hopefully the FN Fiveseven due to the significantly lighter weight, potential to pierce light body armor and harder cover, and a couple extra rounds per magazine. In the event that they stick with 9mm then hopefully something like the P320 (if testing shows it to be good enough otherwise) as the more modular nature should lower the long term costs. In the event that the P320 in 9mm isn't an option (if what this anon >>30134560 posted is true and it was entered in the .357 Sig variety) or proves to not be up to par like the HK VP9 then the Glock 17/19 would be the best choice.
Educate me.
Wasn't the FNX45 Tac designed for this years ago? What happened
>>30150481
Or was that for special ops
>US ARMY will never field a plastic gun
>US ARMY will never consider a gun from a communist or former communist state
>>30143879
As much as I think Glocks are a great choice, there is no way the military leadership will chose a weapon without a manual safety as standard issue. Because reasons.
>>30150572
>In April, US Army Chief of Staff General Mark Milley suggested procuring 9x19 mm Glock 19 handguns to replace legacy Beretta M9 handguns instead of a more complicated modified solution in line with the MHS original solicitation.
He was pretty exasperated in how much effort it took to replace the M9, but now they've decided to go ahead with the MHS/XM17 tender.
I was pretty surprised the SEALs dropped their SIGs and H&Ks for Glocks.
>>30150736
They still use the MK24.
>>30134957
vatnik detected
>>30135153
>BREETTA
>>30134458
The US would never adopt Czechnology
CZ P-09 or Glock 17. .40 is a shitty choice for a military. The springs wear faster than a 9 or 45. And the amount the are going to shoot will mean they have to replace parts often.
>STI-Detonics STX
>yfw a literal who? is going to beat out industry giants
>>30150736
I remember that. There are definitely some people who want to cut through the bullshit, but the majority of the entrenched leadership culture makes Glocks a no-go as general issue.
>>30134463
fpbp
If the US Army selects .40 S&W what will the 9mm fags do?
Will they all secretly join the .40S&W crowd and say they were supporters the entire time?
>>30144172
On one hand, I would definitely like a bigger aftermarket for the 320 (grips, frames, maybe cheaper mags) but on the other hand I don't want the flood of wannabe special forces and operational operators operating operationally.
>>30134732
General Dynamics is working with S&W. General Dynamics has more government influence than all other companies combined.
M&P9 Gen 2 with GD barrels will win if the G17 or G19 aren't picked.
>>30134875
Optics on pistols is not happening in the gruntworks and the Gen 3 G19 with Glock nightsights would be picked since its in use with SOCOM in that configuration.
>>30152196
buy the surplus 9mm
>>30141243
Nigger did you read the MODULAR part and know the P228 is the M11 in service?
Fuck, the seals just dropped the P226 and P239 for Gen3 G19.
>>30152196
Laugh at them and call them retarded because every study I've read would point to them being retarded, same as if they went with .45 ACP again.
So who dropped out?
Ruger
HK
STI/Detonics
Did Walther even express a bid?
