http://libertyhangout.org/2016/05/gary-johnson-shoots-himself-in-the-foot-throws-out-austin-petersens-gun/
>Austin Peterson stood by his word by endorsing Johnson after he won the candidacy.
>As a token of good faith, Austin gave Johnson a replica of George Washington’s flintlock pistol, to let him know that he has Austin’s full support in the general election. Tearing up on the front stage of the convention floor, Austin said to Gary as he presented him with the pistol, “You have my sword, and you have my gun.”
>Hours later, a number of delegates were reporting on social media that Johnson was seen tossing Austin’s pistol in the garbage. A husband and wife witnessed Johnson throwing out the pistol and retrieved it from the garbage. The pistol has since been returned to Austin Petersen and remains in his possession.
Old thread right here
>>30121838
I like GJ, but to discard a gift gun, that is incredibly low.
>>30125268
Isn't anyone going to call the ATF and tell them how Gary Johnson literally broke a federal law by throwing away a gun like that in public?
That should be enough to get him behind bars come on everyone!
Sounds like that was staged as a psyop towards the progun crowd.
This guy has been bought
No ones going to publicly/openly do that unless they meant to send a message
>>30125295
Flintlocks are not firearms. They are not under the ATF's purview.
>>30125348
Who fucking cares someone should call the feds on that fucker for thowing out a "deadly weapon"
Don't you get it?
>>30125340
it's called a gaff. someone saw him do it and gave austin petersen it back.
he tried to buy it back and pretend it didn't happen, which only makes it worse for him and more clear for us. Fuck Gary Johnson the antigun faggot
http://libertyhangout.org/2016/05/gary-johnson-campaign-offers-austin-petersen-500-for-his-gun/
>>30125399
you're an idiot m8
>>30125268
Antman?
>>30125422
The best part is, that was brought up in the last thread.
welp, between this and that asshat of a running mate, so much for voting libertarian.
guess its time to make America great again
>>30125009
>McCain ain't no kennedy
Have to second this one. Respect in the general sense for flying in the Navy and all the whole POW thing but most of what those around him who can give honest opinions make him sound like a complete tool.
Forget the source but I read once some quote along the lines of "If he didn't get shot down that day it would have been another day, he was constantly writing checks with his mouth his ability hadn't the chance in hell to back up."
And to be slightly on topic, fuck Gary Johnson.
Say it ain't so, GJ! What the fuck?!?
>>30125478
>libertarians are now all voting for trump
>bernouts are voting for trump
>>guess its time to make America great again
MAGA
A
G
A
>>30125268
>Gary Johnson
He's fucking nobody anyway. Maybe all those elections of him amounting to literally nothing finally made him bitter.
>>30125268
Lol, what an asshat. This just cements my decision to write in Cruz. The LP missed a rare opportunity this year.
>>30124888
>I can't be bought!
Trump may not be, but he doesn't seem to give a shit about anyone else. His website mentions nothing about campaign finance reform or anything like that, and the only reference he's made to being favorable towards this is reversing Citizen's United, which he only mentioned in a tweet several months ago.
>I'll reduce the external debt.
How? By saying he won't pay it? By magic?
>I'll only trade with other countries on equal terms.
The US is literally the most powerful country in the world. People come to the US when they want trade deals; deals are done in our favor whenever possible. And it's not like the US can say "We want to renegotiate a deal that's both parties previously decided was fair to be definitely in our favor." That's not how international politics works, and anyone with half a braincell should recognize that.
>America will protect its industry, create private sector jobs.
This is completely impossible. There are no efforts that can be done that will bring back American industry, as unskilled labor is increasingly being replaced with robots. Examples: Apple replaced 60000 workers with an entirely robotic assembly line, farmers increasingly turning to small farm robots to replace workers, automated stations replacing fast food workers, automated truck drivers, automated cars, etc. The US would be better off investing in education, science, and technology, but Trump seems unwilling to do that considering he is on the record for saying he "loves the uneducated," stating global warming is a Chinese hoax, and pandering to anti-vaccine advocates.
>Bring back the loan/wage ratio
Once again, how?
Ctn., fucking character limits.
>>30125268
Who the fuck pissed that guy off?
>>30125673
>America will no longer be world police for free.
And yet Trump wants to commit 30000 troops to defeat ISIS, and expand a military designed exactly for that role. If you want to stop being the world police, then the military should contract, not expand. Which seems to be a good idea anyways, considering that the US could then actually fund social programs off of the savings. Instead of wondering why other countries don't pay as much into NATO, perhaps the US should wonder why it does, especially considering that even if they significantly slashed their contribution, NATO would still outspend its principle enemies (e.g, Russia) by a very large margin.
>We will use more effective and less expensive ways to carry out our policy.
Like torture? And putting boots on the ground? Because those sure are ethical and less expensive, respectively.
>America will allow Germany to remilitarize.
What?
>Build a wall! Illegals must go back to their countries.
Yes, punish the millions of people who simply want to seek out a better life, as millions have done before them, for the crimes committed by a minority of their faction. Ignore the fact that the lack of a living wage for these people will only be worsened if they are forced to stay in Mexico, and is only caused in the US because they cannot seek citizenship without dealing with mountains of bureaucracy and paperwork. Ignore the fact that this problem will eventually disappear, most likely sooner than we think, as unskilled labor is replaced with machines that can do it cheaper. And feel free to assume that people will be complicit as approximately 11 million people are rounded up and shipped away for the crime of "You didn't follow the arbitrary rules we set up to allow people to live and work here."
>>30125268
As a guy who considers himself broadly libertarian, I can't bring myself to vote for the LP because it's tantamount to voting for a democrat.
I say this, and I get blown off again and again. I remind people that voting is a tactical act whether you want it to be or not and I'm still ignored.
And then this happens and Johnson and his VP go and endorse gun control. So bitter... yet so sweet.
>>30125268
Is that actually antman?
>>30125836
And yet Trump is also on the record for saying he wants to make it harder to legally immigrate as well:
"But legal immigrants do not and should not enter easily. It’s a long, costly, draining, and often frustrating experience - by design." (The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.143-45 , 2 Jul 2000)
"'I’m opposed to new people coming in,' he said. 'We have to take care of the people who are here.'" (nytimes.com/library/politics, 10 Dec 1999).
>>30125268
>going full cuckertarian
No, Mcafee is the answer, fuck the other politicians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKgf5PaBzyg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-87e5wKGgFU
I'd rather have batshit insane than a shill.
>>30125673
>>30125756
bernout/shillarybot plz
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions
>Yes, punish the millions of people who simply want to seek out a better life
>punish
fuck them.
the ones that use the work visa system and those that aquire permanent resident status are the ones who are "coming to america 3 get a bettar life" and they hate the illegals more than anyone.
>You didn't follow the arbitrary rules we set up to allow people to live and work here."
>arbitrary
you're retarded
>impossible to bring back industry!!!
46% tariffs on foreign imports. Fuck Globalism.
>inb4 then I can't buy a $20 coffee pot every 6 months from wal-mart you'll force me to get a $100 coffee pot every 10 years ;_;
if you had a real job, like a unionized manufacturing job straight out highschool like in the postwar economy that made the united states great, then buying quality wouldn't be problem. The trend of low salaries to pay for cheap products needs to end before this race to the bottom hits bedrock. Even as we speak walmart is closing hundreds of locations because people are becoming too poor to support 3 walmarts in a county like they could when they still at least had shitty jobs.
>inb4 hurr everyone can just work in IT or be a patriarchy inspector muh 21st century economy meme everyone can go to college when bernie makes it free!
>>30125867
and? thats why trump needs to be our president.
look up other western nations immigration policies. it's harder by a vast metric than the US process because they don't fucking want or need lowskilled immigrants. Try to immigrate to england, germany, or switzerland without being recruited for a job beforehand.
Just because we have a bunch of 3rd world countries sharing a land border with us doesn't mean we have to take in their refuse.
>>30125826
Who the fucks antman
>>30125942
Shhh...we don't speak that name around here.
>>30125942
The only man that made the CIA interrogation techniques look calm and peaceful compared to what he literally did and wanted to implement in the system.
Basically the guy is batshit insane
>>30125938
>the ones that use the work visa system and those that aquire permanent resident status are the ones who are "coming to america 3 get a bettar life" and they hate the illegals more than anyone.
Then clearly those systems are inadequate to handle the demand. Unless you're going to try to claim that of 11 million people, most coming to do low-skill agricultural and industrial work (which will soon be phased out by robots), none of them are seeking a better life.
>you're retarded
Wow, what a clever argument.
>46% tariffs on foreign imports. Fuck Globalism.
This will do nothing except increase the rate of automation to offset the cost of doing business. You don't have to pay robots. No jobs, or very few at all, will be created.
>inb4 then I can't buy a $20 coffee pot every 6 months from wal-mart you'll force me to get a $100 coffee pot every 10 years ;_;
No, I'll just buy the same coffee pot for the same price, but made entirely by machines, because that will soon be possible and arguably already is. No new jobs will be created. Your dream that we can somehow return to the post-war economy is hopeless. There will be no resurgence in American industry.
>it's harder by a vast metric than the US process because they don't fucking want or need lowskilled immigrants.
Unfortunately, we still need immigrants to do low-skill agricultural and industrial work, and it would sit easier on my conscious if those people were paid fairly because they were citizens.
>Just because we have a bunch of 3rd world countries sharing a land border with us doesn't mean we have to take in their refuse.
Consider the inscription on the Statue of Liberty:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
So much for that American value.
![giant-meteor-2016-bumper-sticker-4[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OQymHQd.jpg "giant-meteor-2016-bumper-sticker-4[1].jpg")
>>30126098
>Lazarus was born into a large Sephardic-Ashkenazi Jewish family
/pol/ is always right
>>30125929
This. Mcafee is the guy we need right now.
Damn, I was pretty excited that they managed to get double digits in the polls for the first time. Fuck Gary Johnson.
>>30126098
What do you do when a large chunk of immigrants coming in today have literally no wish to change their way of life coming to this country, or in some cases want to outright break off portions of this country (la Raza comes to mind). Every group of immigrants that comes to this country is brutalized in some way as they are initially rejected, then eventually assimilated into the larger American mass. Happened with the Chinese out west, the Irish in the East, but it appears that we've stopped doing that and I view that as a huge problem. I do not want us to go the way of Europe and just mass import people without realizing the possible damage it may cause.
>>30125938
>46% tariffs on foreign imports
This kills the average consumer. Wage stays the same, prices on everything goes up.
>>30126098
>inadequate
we don't want or need them. our quotas are at exactly where they should be. the illegals just lower wages for the legal immigrants and blue collar americans.
>increase the rate of automization
in america, in american factories, maintained by skilled american labor. Because it will cost more to build that factory in a foreign country. And in the interim the first factory to get it's ass back on our shores and hire americans will make more money than their globalist competitors. currently if it costs $5 to make a pair of nikes in the US and $0.01 in china with 4.98 to ship it over here, that penny per unit means a few points to stock value so they kill hundreds of thousands of well paying domestic jobs. That needs to stop.
>we should pay them more
then there is no reason to hire them illegally. fixing E verify and enforcing visas is a solution to this, and secure borders, not letting foreigners break the law
>a poem by a woman who was a german immigrant means we should let millions of immigrants pick strawberries for slave wages and live in newly created american slums as wages drop and life becomes harder for legal immigrants and low skilled american workers.
>>30126182
>implying they can raise prices and stay a company
killing globalism only kills globalists. If they make it in america they will make "less" money than relying on slave labor, but they will still make money, unlike any company deciding to go defunct trying to pass the buck onto the US consumer and being outcompeted by domestic competition.
your other option is to be a wageslave with no guns as globalists destroy america like locusts under a hillary presidency.
>>30125268
> tfw we will never see a Based Jim Webb Presidency
>>30126165
Your reasoning should lead you to believe that the current immigration wave will similarly assimilate, not the other way around. Your fears are unfounded.
>>30126200
>illegals just lower wages for the legal immigrants and blue collar americans.
This is the same excuse that has been used for decades. Illegal immigrants do precisely the work that native American citizens don't do. That is how it has always been. Furthermore, the only reason they drive down wages is because they cannot be admitted legally, at which point employers will be legally mandated to pay them a minimum wage.
>in america, in american factories, maintained by skilled american labor.
No, it would be maintained by a skeleton crew of people who simply need to maintain the automated factories. You will not be getting "hundreds of thousands of domestic jobs," and certainly not in the form of industrial labor that would suddenly revitalize the American economy and return it to the post-war Baby Boom. Furthermore, any gains in the industrial sector would assuredly be lost in other sectors, for example trucking, which currently provides roughly a million jobs and would be completely wiped out by automated trucks.
>a poem by a woman who was a german immigrant means we should let millions of immigrants pick strawberries for slave wages and live in newly created american slums as wages drop and life becomes harder for legal immigrants and low skilled american workers.
Have you just ignored everything I've said? The argument is as follows: Trump stands for "traditional American values," supposedly, whatever that may mean. Traditional American values entail an open immigration policy. If we have an open immigration policy, then people get paid at least the minimum wage as required by law as they are American citizens, thus preventing abuse of their work and preventing wages from being driven down. Until, of course, the problem dissipates because we can just use robots to do the same job.
>>30126485
>muh robots
you don't know much about factories buddy, modern factories are heavily automated. you aren't going to find robots to fix the robots, do quality control and assurance, assembly, and the thousands of other tertiary jobs in a modern factory.
>but dey can get moar automated!
A. not really, ford employs almost 200,000 people in their factories with heavy automatization. same for whats left of the US steel and aluminum industries.
B. so instead of a ten thousand chinks working for slave wages, you have 1000 americans making real salaries in a domestic factory designed by an american engineering firm with machines made and designed in the united stats, built by an american construction firm. Win Win for america and america first companies.
>the same argument against illegals
when something's right it doesn't change.
>muh american values.... of a german immigrant during the last major american immigration crisis of shitloads of unskilled irish labor and a influx of german expatriates undermining established US labor and businesses...
>...which led to the start of our immigration policies stemming the flood
all you've proven regarding "american values" is that foreigners always want in at the expense of the Citizenry. Go ask that murder who was deported 5 times his opinion of US immigration, it's probably the same as your.
>>30125673
this isn't /pol/. nobody cares about the opinion of a 12 year old anyway.
>>30126128
>>30126128
>The statue of liberty was made by a jew.
>Ergo it must be bad.
>Therefore /pol/ is right because jews are bad.
>filename.
>>30126698
>you aren't going to find robots to fix the robots, do quality control and assurance, assembly, and the thousands of other tertiary jobs in a modern factory.
And your consistent focus on heavy industry will be your downfall as thousands of other jobs slip into the fold of automated labor.
>A. not really
Why not? What do you think the limits of human ingenuity and cost-cutting are? Whatever can be automated will be, and if you think that this will suddenly lead to a greater amount of jobs than there were before, then you are mistaken. Consider what happened to telephone operators when computer systems replaced them.
>so instead of a ten thousand chinks working for slave wages, you have 1000 americans making real salaries in a domestic factory designed by an american engineering firm with machines made and designed in the united stats, built by an american construction firm. Win Win for america and america first companies.
Or you can replace 60000 people with a couple hundred robots, as Apple already has. I guess that somehow makes up for the 1000 people in quality control, a -59000 person deficit. Whatever gains you expect to make will assuredly be offset by the number of jobs that can be replaced with a drone or a robot. Consider what Amazon plans to do with its shipping service - that's another group of thousands of people that will be out of work in a few years. Or telemarketing - already software is provided that can replace a human telemarketer. The economy for unskilled labor is rapidly closing, and there is no amount of protectionism that can be employed to stop it. You will not get your post-war boom; it just employs gratuitous amounts of wishful thinking.
>when something's right it doesn't change.
You haven't presented anything countering what I've said.
>all you've proven regarding "american values" is that foreigners always want in at the expense of the Citizenry.
So the Statue of Liberty isn't a paragon of American values then?
Good night forever Gary Johnson shills. One more broken tool in the Hillary tool box.
Trump 2016, /k/omrades.
Well that completely settles it. I was already strongly leaning towards trump but the LP has made a complete ass of themselves.
>>30127141
>a gift from the frogs over ellis island
>where we screened immigrants
>somehow a symbol of unfettered immigration
>still not getting it
if the magic completely automated factory is in america, built by americans, and staffed by "muh skeleton crew" of americans, then it will be a net increase in jobs. a "fully automated" factory still has a large number of positions; it isn't the same thing as apple replacing a Model T tier assembly line for Iphones made up of 60k chinks with a modern assembly line manned by robots like in common industry.
>everything will be automated eventually, so we should just march hand in hand into dystopia!
whatever "skilled" job you think you have, it "can" be replaced by automation of a computer program. some things are simply not profitable to automate either via protectionism or basic economics. Doctors would throw a shitfit if webmd suddenly had an add to cart button for meds and having a country with no consumers do to "everything is robots" means good and services have no market.
So yes, tariffs=american jobs and a stronger economy. It's better than your plan which is apparently to prostrate yourself to shillary's special interests as a gunless serf.
>>30127266
>a gift from the frogs over ellis island
>where we screened immigrants
>somehow a symbol of unfettered immigration
The question I asked was if you considered it a "paragon of American values." But I guess you don't see it as such. Therefore, you must not like American values. And considering that, barring the Chinese Exclusion Act, there were minimal naturalization requirements and no immigration requirements to the US until 1924, yes, "unfettered" immigration could be considered an American value. And even with the Chinese Exclusion Act there were allowances for work permits and other means of legal residency other than citizenship.
>it isn't the same thing as apple replacing a Model T tier assembly line for Iphones made up of 60k chinks with a modern assembly line manned by robots like in common industry.
It is exactly the same. A large number of unskilled human workers are replaced with robots, with a smaller number new highly skilled workers hired to oversee the production line. This leads to a net decrease in jobs overtime. And you continue to ignore that this process is not unique to heavy industry, as it would affect millions of other jobs that I have previously mentioned and you continue to simply ignore.
>some things are simply not profitable to automate either via protectionism or basic economics. Doctors would throw a shitfit if webmd suddenly had an add to cart button for meds and having a country with no consumers do to "everything is robots" means good and services have no market.
Tell that to the guy who made a computer program that can act as a lawyer in parking ticket cases. You cannot stop technological progress.
>>30125268
I'm voting for mcaffee now
>>30125268
Fuck, I should stop affiliating with the libertarian party.
What's the next best party for someone with mostly libertarian beliefs?
>>30125756
>Yes, punish the millions of people who simply want to seek out a better life
They can seek in whatever place they came from, fucking commie
> for the crimes committed by a minority of their faction.
Liberals like yourselves are the ones who should be punished for those crimes, as none of them could have happened without your aid.
>>30127468
>I'm throwing my vote away and welcome Hillary Clinton
Nice try Hill shill.
Daily reminder that open borders is a ploy to create an underclass of undeducated, poor serfs. It is the wholesale selling of American jobs in the interest of corporate profit
Also, why the fuck did he offer $500 dollars? Such an odd number
this thread is filled to the brim with reddit shills
Well, shit. Looks like I'm voting for a meme now.
T-Thanks /pol/...
>>30126165
>Every group of immigrants that comes to this country is brutalized in some way as they are initially rejected, then eventually assimilated into the larger American mass.
Only works if they are white.
These asian migrants are not "American" They vote 80%+ for Democrats ffs
>>30125547
If you use that hammer on your weewee, it'll squeak!
I hope everyone survives their angsty libertarian phase
All we need is a fiscally responsible GOP and tone back on the big brother stuff and you satisfy 90% of libertarian demands
>>30127549
What we need is to get rid of all the old faggot boomers who grew up in a 90% white country, and think its still the same as we dip below 60% white on official stats.
>>30127510
That is the most blatantly fake astroturf message I've ever seen.
>>30127549
>Liking social and economic freedom is angsty
I at least can respect your restraint from using "lolbertarians'
>>30127532
>you're not American unless you vote for the same political party as I do!
What are your opinions on the qualities that make one a true Scotsman?
>>30125547
>mfw 20% bernouts will defect to trump if shillary nomination
>>30127586
Listen m8 if you voted obama twice, hate the constitution, aren't white, and aren't a christian, then you are not an American
>>30127571
spotted the shill
>>30127581
What do expect us to do? It's literally "fuck you dad!" the party
>>30125268
I can only find two shitty news sources for this supposed happening. Come back when you have something more substantial than these blogs. Also no one cares about the libertarian party in its current state.
>>30127609
>>30127609
>>>30127581
>What do expect us to do? It's literally "fuck you dad!" the party
Anon......... That's the liberals.
>>30125478
This is where I am at too, anon. I don't even fucking care anymore. Republicans would have to put up stalin or equivalent for me to vote shillary.
>>30127599
Here's your (you), retard. Get back to /pol/
>>30127510
Yeah
>Guys vote Macafee! We still need to throw our votes away for no gain and let Hillary win!
>>30127630
We will need some chingchongs like yourself to show us how to build our Great Wall no doubt, but then you will need to go back
>>30127593
Please tell me it's true
>>30127630
>if you hate the constitution you aren't America
>Go back to /pol/!
Nah, how about you just kys, spic. We run this show now.
>>30127510
>dropping the name and preventing retribution
>>30127644
Trump has nothing against legal immigrants.
He will set up AMERICAN Sweatshops complete with forced asian labor. Because technically it still counts as bringing jobs to the USA.
>>30127471
republican if you like guns and not being taxed as much
democrat if you like drugs and sexual depravity
>>30127682
>Allowing people the freedom to negotiate their own working conditions and wages is somehow bad
>>30127704
What if I like all four of those things?
>>30127664
>to prevent retribution
Not
>because it's fucking fake as hell
>>30127609
Are you being retarded on purpose?
>>30127733
Libertarian
>>30127733
>>30127755
>>30127766
Fucking dubs for days
>>30127755
>are you being retarded on purpose?
It's better than being born that way, wouldn't you say?
>>30127493
>Anyone that doesn't vote for Trump is a Shilldog supporter!
>>30127510
I honestly think they're extremely overstated. I can't imagine more than a few angry bernie - supporters coming in and trying to fuck with them. Besides, this is /k/, I don't think as many made them with way.
>>30127704
But I like all 4.
Besides, Republicans are just as bad as dems on being authoritarian. Just on different things
>>30126308
>tfw I was alive to witness the departure of the last classical liberal, and the decent of the left into mouth-foaming insanity
Jim could have been our return to center in national politics. Fuck the left. MAGA 2016!
>>30127789
Well you got me there.
>>30127658
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/ABC-News-Poll-Millennials-Surge/2016/05/25/id/730616/
>>30127811
keep trying shill
>>30127898
>Implying milienials vote
>>30125268
What if this is some libertarian party ploy to thrust them into the limelight?
>>30127933
I mean, I'm not trying very hard if I am shilling.
How do I know you're not doing one of those tricky jew reverse shill techniques?
>>30125756
>Yes, punish the millions of people who simply want to seek out a better life, as millions have done before them, for the crimes committed by a minority of their faction. Ignore the fact that the lack of a living wage for these people will only be worsened if they are forced to stay in Mexico, and is only caused in the US because they cannot seek citizenship without dealing with mountains of bureaucracy and paperwork. Ignore the fact that this problem will eventually disappear, most likely sooner than we think, as unskilled labor is replaced with machines that can do it cheaper. And feel free to assume that people will be complicit as approximately 11 million people are rounded up and shipped away for the crime of "You didn't follow the arbitrary rules we set up to allow people to live and work here."
not our fucking problem. point of first contact with an illegal should result in their immediate deportation period paragraph. its no different than if you get in an accident driving without insurance. even if its not your fault, its your fault BECUASE YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
>>30127599
I guess the founding fathers (the first Americans) weren't American then, because a good portion of them weren't Christian.
>>30127937
keep shilling reddit it makes no difference
Trump by landslide is happening
>>30127766
not if you like guns tho
>into the trash it goes
>>30127968
say that to my face, not online, and see what happens
>>30127972
I didn't even bring up trump. I've accepted he's probably going to win.
I just don't trust him or like him. I'm pretty sure you're just a Hillary supporter trying to make trumpfags look worse though
>>30127978
Considering personal liberties encompasses firearm ownership, nah you're an idiot.
>inb4 uhh buh geery johnseenn duhn like guns
Fuck off I wouldn't vote for that faggot anyways, he's a pawn.
>>30127991
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fgOaT4xzdvo
>>30127972
There are a lot of parts of reddit that are hugely pro-trump.
>>30127991
>maybe if I pretend like it isn't true history will change
>>30128051
>>30128026
They were all white god fearing christian men
I dare you to prove otherwise
>>30127704
I like all of those things. I'm incredibly torn because I do not want Clinton to win, but I hate the shit out of what the Republican Party has turned into these days. Half the time they'd give no fucks about curbing our civil liberties if it was done in the name of national defense. I'd like to have some other option than voting for the same two shit parties repeatedly. Mcafee should've won the LP nomination.
>>30128067
>but I hate the shit out of what the Republican Party has turned into these days.
this is what he says on /k/
meanwhile he wants a nigger lover like mcafee
lol
>>30128067
>I hate what the republican party has become
Good thing Trump took a big fat shit on that then and started shoving the neocons out.
>>30127952
>its no different than if you get in an accident driving without insurance
It's completely different. You're comparing an event in which one person directly wrongs another within an event in which one person wrongs an abstract entity (i.e., the state). Unless you believe for some reason that the laws of the state dictate what is moral, and not the other way around, you have no reason to feel that getting in an accident with someone without car insurance is on the same level as illegally immigrating. Otherwise, you should feel as I do: that punishing people for seeking a better life is wrong, and we should do what is within reason to enable them to do that.
>>30128051
>implying they werent.
A deist isn't an atheist.
Even Thomas Jefferson, one of the most hardcore of them had a bible.
Sure, he neutered the fuck out of it and sold it but he still kept it as his book.
George Washing made sure to go to church every god damned sunday. not just as the community social thing most of em treated it as, but actually honest to god went out of his way for his church.
The only one i can concrete think of as not is Benjamin Franklin, who played every denomination in new england. but even he said toasts to Christ when he wasn't getting his brains fucked out.
>>30128077
Oh for fucks sake go back to your damned containment board /pol/. I fail to see how Mcafee's wife's race has anything to do with making a valid candidate for the presidency. You're the same as the fucking SJWs who bitch at anyone not touting their line of thought.
>>30128058
Go ahead and read every result:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Founding+fathers+deism
>>30128112
So if they felt so strongly about all Americans being Christian, why did they specifically prohibit laws mandating the exercise of a certain religion in the First Amendment?
>>30128058
http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/11/was-benjamin-franklin-a-christian/
Tbh senpai u dum
>>30128067
If you hate the currant republican party Trump is your candidate. Voting for him is shooting a big ugly middle finger to them.
>>30128099
This
Trump is now purging the party of evangelical christians and establishment neocons
>>30128149
I don't fuckin know. but i'm not the guy you're arguing with either.. you made a claim that wasn't a whole truth.
It could be because they were all mostly protestants with beliefs that were mostly shunned in mainland europe. and understood freedom can't exist in a theocracy?
>>30128112
A deist isn't a Christian either. Saying the founding fathers thought you had to be a Christian to be american is laughable.
>>30125268
Just further proves that Gary Johnson is a sack of shit and is tainting the party with his SJW pandering. I was a Trump Lib, I re-joined the GOP to vote in my primary and I may stay, given how shitty the LP has become. I don't follow the party drama, but from everything I hear they are straying from their roots and selling out to attract dems, which is fucking sad. Peterson was too based for them to handle, he wanted to issue letters of marque for crist sake. Fucking brutal.
I can see both the dems and GOP splitting after this election, with socialist and MAGA parties being born.
>>30128239
>A deist isn't a Christian
A deist who's philosophy is rooted in semetic thought is, though.
but again, see >>30128215
>>30125938
Most people who are illegals come into the country with a legitimate visa and end up overstaying.
Also, check your history on those tariffs. See how well that worked for us in the thirties. A significant part of the US economy is predicated on trade, and there is no country on earth that will take protectionism level tariffs from us. We could have enforced those maybe twenty years ago at the fall of the wall, but in a world that is increasingly leaning multipolar, that's just gonna result in the US being subject to huge tariffs as well. Not to mention the fact that those imports are pretty important to our balance of trade, the stability of our currency, and that hampering US international commerce is very likely to significantly damage the US government's ability to borrow.
http://libertyhangout.org/2016/05/gary-johnson-campaign-offers-austin-petersen-500-for-his-gun/
Gary Johnson sent a guy to buy the gun back from Petersen for 500 after the public backlash.
>mfw the first thing the libertarian candidate does after nomination is a gun buyback
George Washington's personal religious beliefs were more in line with Freemasonry than Christianity.
I don't know of any major founding fathers than James Madison who were Christians in the traditional sense.
>>30125478
Thank god some are starting to see the light.
>>30128253
>A deist who's philosophy is rooted in semetic thought is, though.
No.. They aren't. I think you have deism and theism confused.
>deism
[dee-iz-uh m]
noun
1.
belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism ).
2.
belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
>the·ism
ˈTHēˌizəm/
noun
belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.
To be a Christian requires you to have a personal relationship with God (James 4:6-10), and the bible says that God loves man (Romans 5:8). A Deist can not be a Christian. But a theist could very well be one.
>>30128351
To be a Christian requires you to believe that Jesus was the son of God, you fucking shitbag Protestant. Take that personal relationship CYOA bs somewhere else.
Fuck. This is why people dont take us seriously.
>>30128379
>implying Catholicism wasn't corrupt used to control people since it's inception.
The bible clearly states, several times, each individual person should have a relationship with god. Maybe you should try reading it sometime, because you know it's pretty paramount to the Christian faith.
All we need now to add on to the Christian argument debate is antman himself.
He's a good Christian person.
>>30128379
I'll be sure to tell all those history authors to strike out the Unitarians from their records then, anon. Going to be kind of hard to explain why a lot of Poles immigrated to Romania to get away from the Catholic Church back in the 1660s though.
>>30127429
>muh american values muh quote... from a german
>automation will destroy all jobs, but don't worry we can all be lawyers defending each other in traffic court...
the economy needs to exist for there to be megafactories buddy. what's your solution besides sinking with the ship cuz "everything iz automated just go on welfare"
>you cannot stop progress
progress for progress's sake isn't "progress". replacing a low tech chinese Iphone factory with a highly automated one in the US isn't a net decrease in jobs for the US, making a skynet factory would be (and is unrealistic). A gorillion chinks going back to doing who cares (probably the death of the PRC as the one child policy's billions of single, now jobless, men comes full circle) when tariffs make foreign manufacturing less profitable than domestic isn't our problem.
>>30128351
>pulling quotes from the bible
Uh huh. and you're not a muslim if you're a shia. and you can get fucked if you think anything but Catholicism is christian.
Oh man, this certainly is a lot of words in this edited bible for someone who can't be a christian based deist.
>>30127811
>>Anyone that doesn't vote for Trump is a Shilldog supporter!
in practice, yes. Shill. A vote for anyone but trump is narrowing the gap for hillary. This is going to be the first election in a long time where high voter turnout is bad for the democrats, because it won't be high for america's eternal second choice.
>>30125268
My MAGA hat can only come in mail soon enough
>>30128455
Yeah I clearly love the Catholics as you can see from here >>30128402
>not learning Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew to read the original text
>christian based deist
I never said, or meant to imply, the belief couldn't be based on Christianity. I said a deist can not be a Christian.
>>30128455
Oh man, i remember that one group of guys, you know the ones who ran away from Europe because they're particular beliefs didn't fit with mainstream Christianity.
yeah, i'm so glad they don't consider themselves christian at all.
I cant fucking stand the American philosophy that a gun is a tool for defense. No it isn't. A shield is a tool for defense. A helmet is a tool for defense. A gun is designed specifically to deal fatal damage to a person. It's not a tool to incapacitate or disarm someone, it's made to kill. If you're worried about defending yourself carry a stun gun or a peppery spray. If you seriously think that everyone who commits a crime in which the victim might feel the need to defend themselves; petty theft, muggings, carjackings, should be executed on the spot then you're a disgusting human being. This is America's problem. Violence is so engrained into your culture that you can't even entertain the idea that a criminal is also a human being. Instead you opt to murder them. If you want to address crime, you fight it at its root. Systematic corruption, wealth inequality, racism. These things drive people to a life of crime. When you shoot a criminal dead you more than likely create another one.
>>30128519
Yes they can you dumb fuck.
I guess protestants aren't christian either. give an actual reason other than the bible to say who can be christian or not.
because clearly you're a fucking retard.
here's one of his own sentences taken from letters to a friend.
"we all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus, & no where will they be found delivered in greater purity than in his discourses"
![Soon... [trump].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wI4K9CO.jpg "Soon... [trump].jpg")
>>30128191
>all the asshurt from christfags finding out that IRL they're a vocal minority that no longer needs to be pandered to
>all the tears of impotent rage from the Republican good goys at trumps ascension and the death of for profit politics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccl-AUYIveY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx3K-jr4q6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WUVP6l9Das
>>30128555
Why are you on this board?
>>30128598
To see how the enemy thinks
>>30128555
Tell that to the petit family
>>30128555
the best defense...
>>30128447
>muh american values muh quote... from a german
Doesn't matter where the quote is from. It is explicitly placed on what is generally considered to be a monument to American values. Do you honor those values or not? I'm guessing no, considering your continued efforts to worm away from the question.
>what's your solution besides sinking with the ship cuz "everything iz automated just go on welfare"
Universal basic income.
>progress for progress's sake isn't "progress"
Okay, Mr. Luddite.
>replacing a low tech chinese Iphone factory with a highly automated one in the US isn't a net decrease in jobs for the US
No, but it certainly won't create enough jobs to suddenly replicate the post-war boom economy. Also, this >>30128289.
>>30128555
Weak b8 m8
>>30128555
>if I give them what they want they won't hurt me
Yeah fuck that. I'm not going to risk someone killing me because I only had $20. I guess being spineless is a part of European culture nowadays.
>>30128568
>I guess protestants aren't christian either.
How?
>give an actual reason other than the bible to say who can be christian or not.
You mean give an example from something other than what is literally the rule book on how to be Christian?
>"we all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus, & no where will they be found delivered in greater purity than in his discourses"
I didn't know you had to be a Christian to think Jesus was a good guy?
My main reasoning is that deist believe God has no interaction with his creation. Christianity teaches that God does in fact interact, or at least isn't indifferent, to the world.
>>30128555
this is why I almost welcome the rise of the european caliphate. maybe a new charles martel will rise and save you, but it's unlikely
>>30128645
unfettered immigration isn't an "american value", it's a failed policy that was rectified.
>solution to dystopia is universal income
>solution to immigration is infinite immigration
so we give everyone free money AND let everyone in?
>it won't create jobs
it'd create millions of jobs. Just because it eliminates tens to hundreds of millions of jobs in foreign countrys doesn't mean it wouldn't help the US economy and US employment.
>bu..bu...bu...muh globalism!
the faster you rip off a bandaid, the less pain you feel. The great lie has done nothing but damage this nation. think less of your precious $20 toaster and more of wage stagnation and the decline of american purchasing power from the siphoning of jobs and capital from the US.
>>30127510
>Because this one guy on reddit was all about it, anyone who disagrees with me must be a SHILL
>>>/pol/
>>30127733
Republican. GW Bush had a republican congress for six years. How many times did they vote to ban porn?
>>30128661
>How?
because Catholicism was first, and therefore anyone who disagrees with the Catholic view of Christianity is not christian. according to your retarded definition of Christianity. do you know what the bible is made up of? hundreds of texts that were agreed upon by Constantine. this was called the council of Nicaea. there were others too, but this was the first major one.
Do you know what happened after this? Schisms in the faith. people who disagreed with what was decided by this group selected by Constantine went off and made their own offshoots. this is where orthodoxy comes from. but because they disagree with some of what was included in the bible, they made their own. Arianism is another sect that disagrees with the Bishops in Rome. are they not christian?
Protestantism came about after another schism. but because of the logic you're thowing down here, they can't be christian because they disagree with Cannon law.
The christian deists disagreed with mainstream christianity, so they made their own offshoot. Their bible would be the Jefferson bible, if the founders agreed on it.
They are an offshoot of Christianity, just like every sect that isn't Catholicism. i don't give half a dick what you think of them, under your logic they are the only real Christians.
>>30128661
>You mean give an example from something other than what is literally the rule book on how to be Christian?
it is not the rulebook. it is what the Catholics agreed upon in the 4th century. there were hundreds of texts mollified over and judged at the councils. but what you see in the bible is what the Romans agreed upon. not every christian agreed, those that left made their own versions of the bible
>My main reasoning is that deist believe God has no interaction with his creation. Christianity teaches that God does in fact interact, or at least isn't indifferent, to the world.
again. Catholicism isn't all of Christianity. i'm running out of space so i'll make pt 2
>>30127093
No the statue of liberty was given to us by the French.
The pro immigration words on the plaque was added later and yes it was written by a Jew and pushed by jews
>>30128737
>unfettered immigration isn't an "american value"
We have already gone over this. It is placed on what is generally considered to be a paragon of American values. You are getting nowhere by denying this. Do you value those things or not? The answer is apparently no, and so I must conclude that for someone who claims to defend those values and "Make America great again," you are doing a very poor job of it.
>so we give everyone free money AND let everyone in?
Your have presented no successful counterarguments to this.
>it'd create millions of jobs.
Not enough to offset the jobs lost due to automation. You're assuming that there will be enough jobs to go around in unskilled labor, but what I have explicitly argued is that these jobs will no longer exist, in the US or anywhere. This isn't a matter of the US gains jobs, but China loses some. It's net jobs worldwide decrease across all unskilled sectors. And, once again, you still ignore jobs that will be lost due to automation that already exist in the US, such as truck driving or package delivering, at the expense on focusing on the pipe dream of a large industrial sector, which will never return. The idea that America can somehow rebuild a large industrial sector based on the unskilled labor of millions of people is Five Year Plan level delusionism at this point.
>the faster you rip off a bandaid, the less pain you feel.
More like "the faster you cut of your legs, the sooner you become paraplegic." Increased tariffs will only cause other countries to respond in kind as they did during the Great Depression, potentially leading to a global economic collapse from which no one will benefit.
>>30127510
Yes the fags writing essays in this thread having a "debate" with each other are using Reddit formatting and talking like them too.
>>30127787
Apparently i'm called Nasty Tit-sucker.
>>30127787
Disgusting Dick-Smasher, reporting in.
>>30128885
I've thought a bit of the 'shining city upon a hill.' The phrase comes from John Winthrop, who wrote it to describe the America he imagined. What he imagined was important because he was an early Pilgrim, an early freedom man. He journeyed here on what today we'd call a little wooden boat; and like the other Pilgrims, he was looking for a home that would be free. I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.
-Ronald Raygun
The city needs a wall and if you have the will and the heart, you immigrate legally.
>not enough to offset the loss of jobs.... in other countries
unemployed people in other nations due to manufacturing returning to the US isn't out problem. modern factories employ tens of thousands of people.
>muh skynet factories gib everyone money and let everyone in
guaranteed income would work with a closed border.
>increased tariffs only make countries respond in kind
>I need my fix man, gib me dat globalism
you don't restrict your economy in a down market. we're not in a down market. Trumps "economic uncertainty" by raising tariffs and renegotiating toxic trade deals will have long term benefits. The new deals trade reforms ushered in economic prosperity UNTIL Nixon opened up china and the pandora's box of slave manufacturing. punitive Tariffs on imported goods ostensibly produced by american corporations are not the same thing as tariffs to squash foreign business interests in the US. the latter is damaging, the former will stop the economic race to the bottom.
>>30129007
>And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here.
That could still be interpreted as "unfettered immigration." Do the people who currently come here currently not have "the will and the heart to get here," especially considering the dangers they face in the crossing? Apparently, you dislike American values. Also, I find it funny that you think Ronald Reagan is a better representation of American values than the Statue of Liberty.
>unemployed people in other nations due to manufacturing returning to the US isn't out problem. modern factories employ tens of thousands of people.
You're still ignoring all the other jobs that will be lost due to automation outside of industry. Jobs that currently exist now, but won't within a decade, like truck drivers and package deliverers. Are you really thinking that there will be enough industrial jobs returning to offset those?
>guaranteed income would work with a closed border.
And it would work perfectly fine with less restricted immigration as well.
>you don't restrict your economy in a down market.
This will lead to a down market. Anyone with any economic common sense recognizes this.
>The new deals trade reforms ushered in economic prosperity UNTIL Nixon opened up china and the pandora's box of slave manufacturing.
No, they caused economic ruin until the Second World War brought us out of the Great Depression, and the Baby Boom kept us going for a little while longer until the 1973 oil crisis. You are not going to see that kind of economic boom again due to the fact that we cannot create so many jobs due to automation, and it would be foolish to believe you could cause it by making everyone inflict tariffs on one another. Your economic ideas are completely out of date.
>>30125268
>2008
>Don't want to vote for a commie
>Don't want to vote for a corporatist cuckservative
>Gary Johnson's whole campaign was "give me 5"
>As in if he gets 5% of the popular vote they have to include the party on the ballot and in debates, thus breaking up the bullshit 2 parry system
>Tfw I gave this cuck a vote
Good thing it was pointless. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut this election cycle, which he did, yet he still fucked up.
Trump train, I'm on board. Take us back to greatness.
>>30129188
>guaranteed income would work with less restricted immigration
are you retarded?
>>30128851
Wow, I'm actually impressed you're taking the time to type all of that out lol. I do know the history of "The Bible" as we know it now, but the Torah says that god wasn't indifferent to the world, and you obviously know Christianity's roots are in Judaism.
>but because they disagree with some of what was included in the bible, they made their own. Arianism is another sect that disagrees with the Bishops in Rome. are they not christian?
I promise every version of the bible they wrote will also say that God isn't indifferent to the world. That's one of the fundamental things about being a Christian, because afaik all the sects agree on that. If you can show me a sect who's text don't say this by all means please do.
>They are an offshoot of Christianity, just like every sect that isn't Catholicism. i don't give half a dick what you think of them, under your logic they are the only real Christians.
Except half of their practices aren't related to the bible they approved in any way. I would say Protestants follow the bible better than the people who approved it, considering they still follow what is essentially the catholic bible.
I know you're doing a part two and I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say. But I don't think you're going to change my mind, because I think we have different ideas on what really makes a "Christian". If literally the only thing that makes a Christian is the belief that Jesus was Gods son, and there's only one true God, then I suppose you're right. But I don't think that's a fair way to do it, because if you're a serial killer, can you really say you're a Christian? I know that's an extreme, but I think you'll get my point.
>>30129188
>john winthrop
>less american than a poem written by an immigrant during the first immigrant crisis that added gasoline to the fire of the gilded age.
are you a mexican or something? No one has a problem with legal immigrants, just the illegal ones. If we had a canadian diaspora we'd need a wall up there too.
those "11 million ;_;" need to fuck off back to their own country and visa overstays should be blacklisted from further admittance. this whole "follow the law and immigrate legally" thing isn't difficult to understand, the same thing would happen to you if you decided to illegally immigrate into canada (or mexico if they weren't a barely functioning cartel state)
>>30129298
> No one has a problem with legal immigrants
Clearly you do because all the democrats want to do is make them legal
Very few immigrants actually consider themselves American anyways
Certainly those of totally different races/cultures/religions will never really fit in.
>>30129298
The quote was from Ronald Reagan; only the general premises were from Winthrop. Also, considering Lazarus's poem is on the Statue of Liberty, I think that gives it a bit more credence.
> this whole "follow the law and immigrate legally" thing isn't difficult to understand
Except the reason that illegal immigration occurs at all is because it is too difficult for people to immigrate to the US. Furthermore, Trump wants to restrict legal immigration as well.
>the same thing would happen to you if you decided to illegally immigrate into canada
Canda's laws are actually significantly fairer than the US's. For example, it is far easier to become a permanent resident in Canada than it is in the US because they don't have quotas on the number of residents they accept per year, as far as I can tell. You also need to have only been a permanent resident for 4 years as opposed to 5. There's also not a requirement of knowledge of more Canadian history than most citizens of Canada actually no, unlike the US.
>>30129443
Tell that to the Irish, who made up a largely Catholic minority in a Protestant majority when they immigrated in the 19th century. I guess they don't now consider themselves American citizens despite their obvious cultural and religious differences, and they never really fit in with the rest of American society over time.
>>30126485
You're a fucking idiot, traditional immigration policy is not the same as the cluster fuck we have now and they certainly didn't just left anybody who showed up at the door in. So effectively you want to do nothing about these fucking illegals. The system is perfect.
>>30126135
Can we have Trump appoint McAfee as internet czar or secretary of homeland security or something? Because that would be fucking sweet.
>>30125942
An asshole who would post pics and videos of animals he tortured on k. He would cut open live animals and stake them on ant mounds.
>>30125268
ignorning all the politics
why did he think this was a good idea?
If you're going to just toss it, do it in a place other than the space you got it, or just stuff it in your attic
>>30128253
Most of them explicitely denied the ideas of CHristianity. Washington did not buy into the trinity or the divinity of Jesus, and Jefferson helped publish the first English-language Quran.
>>30128555
I agree that giving people guns and not a clear idea of when its okay to use them creates problems
but a shield is a tool of defense, as is a sword. A shield does nothing to deter, since the entier purpose of a shield is to protect you so you can carry out an attack.
Having a sword'n'board just means you're being defensive, compaerd to the naked, screaming man with a claymore
>>30125331
His running mate is a gun grabbing piece of shit.
>>30129525
>that quote from ronald reagan about what winthrop said is by reagan
fucking duh, but "a shining city on a hill" is by winthrop
>muh lazarus
immigrant shill who is pro immigrant. /pol/ is always right. A US president and a settler hold more credence than a german poet when it comes to what is an american value.
>immigration is hard
by design
>it's too hard
then they don't have they don't have the will or heart
>so day break the law
further proving they aren't the caliber of people we should bring in as immigrants.
and pretty much everything you say about canadian immigration is also wrong. they have an immigration test containing a large portion of canadian history, you can't get permanent resident status without a job (inb4 hurr but it doesn't say that, they'll totally stamp your may issue form!), and they don't have a quota system meaning they deny everyone equally unless they are valuable. Every western nation BUT the USA has "stringent" immigration policies (besides muh rapefugees and sweden yes!) and they don't have a guarantee of letting in anyone.
Try to become a permanent resident in england as an american and attempt to do the same as an englishman trying to come to america; the american will not get permanent resident status without being recruited for a job beforehand even if married to a british citizen, whereas a brit who stuck his dick in an american has guaranteed permanent resident status even if unemployed. We need increase and enforce immigration law to be in line with other first world countries.
>>30128609
We're tired of your shitty Bernie raids.
>>30125929
Wish he had won the Libertarian nomination. He has all the characteristics that draw people to Trump, he's smarter than anyone else running, he's funny as fuck, he actually believes in individual freedom and guns, and he would finally be able to get McAfee off our computers.
>>30126308
Can you imagine how based the election would be if it was Webb vs Paul vs McAfee? Hard to fucking lose. Instead it's Clinton vs Trump vs Johnson. Hard to fucking win.
>>30130390
>Webb vs Paul vs McAfee
I've been telling the people I know that in a sane world we'd be voting for these guys.
>>30130390
This is what happens when your elections are decided by whoever knows the most rich people.
>>30125929
God DAMN that second vid could not be more based. I was saying commerce or DHS, but fuck that, Trump needs to put him in charge of the ATF or the DEA.
He sounds totally compatible with Trump.
>the difference between the other candidates and me is that I feel no shame
>>30130461
that's how it's always been, everywhere in every era.
vote trump, pull up a chair and grab a bag of popcorn. we are the generation that gets to watch the world burn almost literally.
>>30129875
Good.
I hope the libertarians poach SHITLOADS of democrat shits.
Who knows they might convert a few but more importantly weaken the anti-trump and consequently antigun vote.
>>30127787
>>30127787
Long Cock Massacre.
Nice.
>>30130045
> A US president and a settler hold more credence than a german poet when it comes to what is an american value.
Obviously, the poem on the Statue of Liberty doesn't represent American values then, because you don't like what it says. The Statue of Liberty is, apparently, un-American now. I'm sorry that you have so little faith in what your country stands for. Clearly you don't appreciate American values, and would rather just have them serve you when you feel like it.
>then they don't have they don't have the will or heart
So someone wanting something so bad they're willing to break the law to do it means they don't have the will or the heart for it? It seems easier to argue that they actually have a great deal of will, but you just won't let them because of arbitrary standards.
>further proving they aren't the caliber of people we should bring in as immigrants.
No, all it shows is that it is far too difficult to immigrate to this country, that people who we should let in are being denied only because "That's the rules!" Why do you defend a clearly broken system that reflects nobody's interests? Why not change the rules so that those people can immigrate legally, which is apparently what you want anyways?
>Other countries do it, so it's okay!
Appeal to bandwagon. Just because other countries have tough immigration laws does not mean the US should as well. Why not lead by example?
MFW this fucking thread. Mods, please delete this. This is why /k/ has become a heap of dogshit.
>>>/pol/
Fuck you mods for not deleting this thread
>>30130611
what's your immigration status
>great deal of will
but not enough will to get an education and apply for a job with a US company to ensure admittance or to wait for their ticket to come up in the immigration lottery (we don't have to have, we could only select the best of the best if we decided to like every other country)
>too difficult
easier than almost every other country someone would want to move to.
>broken system
because obama gutted ICE and the border patrol. Now we have to kick out 11million criminals. Even Bill Clinton, who started E verify, wanted to get our immigration problem in check.
>reflects no ones interests
except americans. it's not our job to cater to aliens. if they don't like it, they can have their own country with blackjack and hookers.
>lead by example and let all of south america empty into the US!
>let everyone in and give them free money because robots are gonna take all the jobs!
>appeal to bandwagon
*Argumentum ad populum
also that isn't what it is, you're retarded and guilty of the fallacy fallacy, and probably an illegal alien or foreigner asshurt that you don't get free money from tax payers for existing.
>>30130639
/pol/fags need to get the fuck out
>>30130639
>>30130673
how about YOU go you fucking shill
>mfw you get physically removed
>>30130639
>>30130673
go be stupid somewhere else, the people deserve to know the libertarian party as cucked themselves in search of bernout votes and that Johnsson is an antigun faggot.
>>30130797
I was actually planning to vote for Johnson until this thread. Nonetheless, this isn't /k/, especially not the people debating whether non-Christians are American or the origins of Christianity. /pol/fags need to stay on /pol/.
>>30127787
Tropical Monkey Massacre
>>30127787
Top Scrotum Expansion Pak
>>30127787
Gay Bobby-Sauce Faggot
or
Dangly Ass Sucker
>>30130750
>but not enough will to get an education and apply for a job with a US company to ensure admittance or to wait for their ticket to come up in the immigration lottery
US companies don't hire temporary farmhands. In fact there isn't even a candidacy program for permanent residency for unskilled workers; there's just the limited quotas of agricultural visas. Which arguably is the solution if you're so opposed to citizenship; we could at minimum create and/or expand programs for unskilled migrant laborers to allow them to enter and work in the US legally.
>except americans.
Which Americans? I'm an American, and I'm perfectly fine with people moving in.
>it's not our job to cater to aliens.
This isn't about "catering," it's about having a sensible policy based on the number of people who want to enter the country and not leaving people in poverty and danger when work and safety is available across the border.
>also that isn't what it is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
"This type of argument is known by several names, including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, ... and bandwagon fallacy"
>you're retarded and guilty of the fallacy fallacy
I've presented other arguments as to why I think a more open immigration policy is correct; I haven't just called your arguments fallacious. I'm not guilty of that. Nice try though.
>>30131197
>we need more unskilled labor
>i'm a cuck
>policy based on the number of people who want to enter the country
thats called catering to aliens
>still retarded and wrong
the US has one of the least stringent immigration policies of the developed world. Comparing our lax immigration policies to europe and canada isn't bandwagoning but is proof that you're just an idiot with an unrealistic view of immigration. We're already open to legal immigration, that doesn't mean we need to sit idly by and allow illegal immigration.
>arguments
"it's mean!" isn't an argument
>>30125268
fuck the candidates, I'll vote for whoever is willing to start deporting the fucking Mexicans. Anyone who is against that is in favor of America having a white minority in a few decades and is traitor
>>30131300
>we need more unskilled labor
You're not suggesting otherwise. Until farmers can fully turn to automated systems for crop picking, they will rely on migrant laborers that travel with the harvest as they have for decades. This has only become a problem recently because our immigration laws are designed to encourage permanent residency, which is impossible to acquire if you're an unskilled worker.
>the US has one of the least stringent immigration policies of the developed world.
According to whom? You?
>Comparing our lax immigration policies to europe and canada isn't bandwagoning
Yes, it is, because what you have argued is that our immigration policy should be strict because other country's policies are strict. That is the definition of argumentum ad populum, if that is what you would prefer to call it. Instead what you should be analyzing is why we should bother having such strict policies which do nobody any benefit except to encourage nativism.
>We're already open to legal immigration, that doesn't mean we need to sit idly by and allow illegal immigration.
But the only reason illegal immigration occurs at all is because legally immigrating is too difficult. It would be simpler to allow people to legally immigrate.
>>30125756
Donald Trump has already said he would rip the countries of resources to pay for any military actions.
Also, you seem to oppose the very rules of nature themselves. You're alive right because your ancestors fought and died, when necessary, using any and all means.
Finally, we need that wall, or an invasion and annexation of the Mexican state.
>>30125515
McCain was an admiral's son who crashed three planes before finally being shot down, captured, and given the same medical treatment all his other boys received.
That is, until he started singing his songs.
>>30125867
Donald Trump opposes slavery, which the left broadly and covertly supports. Well, I guess slavery is a harsh term. I'll say they have a lust for feudalism.
>>30127141
Your paragon comment is a thinly veiled, "no true Scotsman"
>>30125399
there is literally nothing they can do. flintlocks are NOT "firearms" according to the federal government
This thread was moved to >>>/pol/75744955
