Lithgow Arms USA is releasing the Australian Defence Force issue F90/EF88 rifle to the US as the Atrax rifle.
Thoughts?
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/05/23/lithgow-arms-usa-importing-thales-aus-ef88f90-atrax-rifle-nra-2016/
>>30090090
http://www.lithgowarms.com/portfolio-item/f90/
https://youtu.be/G6pCMmOewME
>>30090090
They should sell well.
>>30090132
The advertising is stupid
>this guy can change mags really quick!
>this guy can pop a balloon with the 1st shot!
>this guy can hit a target at 550 meters!
>BUY OUR GUN AND BE LIKE THIS GUY!
>>30090221
I agree. The majority of those things are skills not characteristics of the firearm.
>>30090196
I bet you're right.
>all these storefronts tho jesus christ
>>30090221
Vid was probably meant to woo the stupid Australian masses.
>>30090294
>Australian masses.
No Australian citizen will own one of these you retard
>>30090312
I know that, I meant in relation to defence spending when they were adopted, famalam. No need to be so salty.
>>30090090
The whole Steyr Aug family are grossly overrated. There's a reason the design never took off and this latest iteration is a turd rolled in glitter.
Expensive, maintenance heavy, no Stanag mags, not modular and the joys of Australian quality control
>>30090432
Military aquisitions are never run passed the aussie public, i'd be surprised if the average australian knew that a soldier's weapon is a "rifle" rather than a "gun".
>>30091272
>never took off
What the hell are you talking about, are you fucking high?!
>>30090090
>quick change barrel
Super easy with tha original AUG, but I thought the aussies got rid of that with their redesign?
Looks ugly like it's Papa. Might get one just because it says Lithgow and even hasgun Aussies will never get one
>>30091526
Yea mate f88 easiest barrel removal, havent touched the f90 yet so no idea.
>tfw Aussies will never own one
>tfw they won't sell the Hawkei or Bushmaster to civilians either
Taking about not needing a tax stamp while advertising a grenade launcher....
>>30091272
>maintenance heavy
This is the first I heard that but I don't know much about the styres, how true is that?
>>30091272
What exactly are you talking about when you mention quality control? I'm genuinely curious, not shit talking.
>>30091635
>how true is that
Not.
>>30091642
He is talking bollocks. The rifles were just old.
>FEKIN STRAY CUNT
>YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEA
I want one
>>30091526
Unless you're carrying around an LMG, a quick change barrel is a gimmick.
>>30091746
its easy as fuck to clean and especially clear failed extractions with it
>>30090090
I'd buy one in .300 blackout if it was compatible with STANAG mags.
>>30091642
I've heard that the initial batch the Austrians got had some problems, but that's it.
>>30091702
that's a cohesive argument to me.
>>30091770
But we all know that in the arms industry any problem with a firearm, even once fixed, becomes a permanent black mark upon its name.
Wish it took stanag mags
>>30091896
Why? AUG mags are the best 5.56×45 mags ever made.
>>30091922
'Cept they go opaque if left in the sun too long and the sides wear from use to the point they wobble and cause misfeeds.
Otherwise fine though.
>>30091970
Interesting. Any pics to back that up?
I kind of want one because I know a bunch of ozzies will never get to own one.
Kind of like when they talk about airguns or New Jersey does it I can walk down the street to a sports store and buy an airgun and walk out.
Shame about the lack of meat pies in my area. The area the ozzies got me beat. Oh and the sheilas.
>>30092029
Nah, just what Ive heard from a mate in the army.
Problems steel mags don't have.
Mind you, they're probably long overdue to have been replaced, so its more down to a failure of the material and lack of replacement/maintenance than a failure in the design itself.
Is there any word on price yet?
>>30091922
Because most of the people buying it in the US would have STANAG mags and AUG mags have a decent price premium on them, due to being used by a tiny minority of guns.
>>30092549
It's says 2k in the article. I'm not interested in bullpups enough to pay that, but it's not too bad.
>>30092876
Honestly it's not as bad as I was expecting, however that may change when they actually start importing them.
Out of intrest are the going to release this and then 3 months later release like an A2 variant? Are there any glaring issues that need fixing?
>>30091635
>This is the first I heard that but I don't know much about the styres, how true is that?
I was an armourer for 10 years and the whole F88 family was the bane of my existence. Worked in all types of units with all types of kit and they were hands down the most maintenance intensive. People claim it's because they were old but they neglect the fact most combat units receive new or refurbished rifles every 2-3 years. On the other hand Chocs and pogue units kept the original F88s for 10 plus years.
Standard issues include:
>Cocking handles.
Replaced annually on maybe 40% of rifles in an infantry battalion. Regularly replaced in range shoots because the corner wears off and they won't stay in the hold-open slot. They break off easily too.
>Butt plates
Replaced every 2-3 years max
>Hammer mechanisms
They wear out quickly, even with graphite. They are also annoying to rebuild.
>Triggers
They wear unevenly and make the trigger even worse than usual. They often flare where the clamping screw tightens, meaning you have to pull the trigger bar out, clean it all, file the flare down, then reset the whole assembly. Mightn't seem like much but multiply that by 20% of rifles in a year and it's many hours' work.
>foregrips
They get knocked around and bend very easily. They are also a job where you need 3 Asian woman sized hands and a hammer.
This doesn't include the usual adjustments to make sure everything is working well
As an infantryman's rifle I compare them to the M16A2s we used to have, the M4A1s the SF units use, 416s and 417s. Sure the last two were introduced only recently but they need hardly any work, even after returning from deployments where they get used every day.
>>30091642
>What exactly are you talking about when you mention quality control? I'm genuinely curious, not shit talking.
Australian manufacturing is renowned for it's poor quality products outside small or medium sized family businesses. Basically it's a systemic issue with unionised workforces and a lack of accountability.
It would be common to receive a new batch of rifles and have 30% of them fail the initial inspection. Often it was for little things that you could fix on the spot, but I had plenty that failed for things like headspace or sights that wouldn't hold a point of aim
Never had the same issue with new shipments of other firearms. I saw new shipments of F89A1s (M249s), MAG 58s (M240s), Mk19s, 417s, and a few others. It was exceptionally rare to have anything but a spring tension come in slightly below standard, but I attributed this to they probably sat in storage for years before delivery. Timing on a 50 cal doesn't move when its in storage, so neither should headspace on an F88.
>>30091770
>I've heard that the initial batch the Austrians got had some problems, but that's it.
You have to remember that ADI/Thales run a huge network of influence in Defence. Any digger who makes a comment about how poor the quality is on one of their rifles will be pulled up by the warrant officers, as their mates work for Thales and they are looking to secure a job there when they discharge.
>>30092029
>Interesting. Any pics to back that up?
It does happen, but mags are so cheap no-one cares. It's more common to see a mag explode when hit on something. The whole spring and baseplate shoot out everywhere.
To be fair stanag mags wear out too, just takes a long time.
>>30096504
thank you for these interesting tidbits of information. Do you think the AUG had the same issues?
>>30096596
I think you mean a huge network in Aus government, Thales does plenty of contracts for other commonwealth areas as well.
Bunch of useless, corrupt, thieving French scum.
I hate seeing people defend Thales, I have seen how the fuckers operate, slimiest cunts in the industry.
>>30097476
The differences between the AUG and F88 are completely superficial. The biggest difference is probably the single shot lockout on the F88
>>30096547
Aren't F89s made at Lithgow though?
>>30090090
>professional firearm news outlet
>can't even get a scanner to scan documents
>takes pictures of pamphlet instead
>looks cheap and unprofessional
>>30096504
Sort of unrelated, but maybe you know, why did we have m16a2's? I remember seeing photos of infantry in Timor with them and also I remember seeing some ADGs kicking around with them once.
>>30090090
Hey do any Aussie anons in the Australian gun industry (whats left of it) know what kinda licenses Lithgow have?
I know they clearly have access to Category R firearms to manufacture to the military, but I was curious if any other smaller shops still operate ala FFL07/10s do in the States who own machine guns and whatnot for government agencies etc.
>>30098825
Warwick Arms in Melbourne do.
>>30098801
Because the Army bought them and used them.
>>30090090
Proven rifle, 5.56, modular, easy to maintain.
What's not to like, perhaps the price which will be outrageous.
>>30098825
There are a few different companies that manufacture cat D and R stuff for civilian sales. There is warwick and at least one other manufacturer of semi and full auto ARs (can't remember their name). There was also a company that made a heap of 9mm thompsons and owen guns for the film industry a while back as well. I looked into getting a semi auto open bolt, short barrel owen made for cat H but it was going to require a minimum order of 15 units and no guarantee it would be approved.
>>30099017
There was another company just making uppers for all the worn out 30+ year old SP1 AR15s used by pro shooters before customs started letting in cat D rifles.
How do you pronounce "Thales"?
>>30098942
I understand, but specifically what was their reasoning? Why buy m16s when you have the F88? Other than shooting bullets what role did they fill?
>>30099109
THAY-lees
>>30099017
>>30098928
Cool.
Do they have a storefront attached to a regular civilian kinda store?
I know some of the mg dealers in America like to occasionally display their full autos on the wall to attract customers. But I dunno if that would run afoul of the really strict storage laws y'all have.
>>30099260
they are generally made to order by the few that are allowed to own them. The only place I have seen full autos on display for sale in australia are at cleaver firearms. They had a couple of type 63s, various sub machine guns, some brens, a 1919 and a few other things. There is probably less than 100 individuals in the country that are allowed to own this type of gear though........
>>30099340
Gotta show respect to those who go for the effort.
Betcha a whole bunch of them are really rich or connected, probably to the PMC or government.
>>30090090
It's always good to see more competition in the bullpup market.
>>30098825
Yeh there are more then people realise.
Pretty much all the dsitributors hold Cat ABCDEMHR licenses. Like Nioa and Raytrade. As do most dealers and some gunsmiths. There are reduced storage requirments in some States if you only go for a Cat AB or ABH dealer/armourer license.
Halls firearms in Townsville has produced rifles before. They made a straight pull AR15 lookalike on a custom order.
The collectors license in some States are pretty bro tier as well. Bust shit in others. Qld cant even own non deac Cat D.
>>30099798
Also I forgot the Theatrical armourers and in some states like Qld histprical reenactment groups can have an exemption granted at the goverments leisure.
My dads mate is part of such a group and he has a working STG44. Saw it fire full auto blanks as a kid and didnt appreciate it as much as I would now.
>>30099340
Having them on display is kind of pointless. People with a Cat R know what they want if they are buying something.
Cleavers do it because it looks cool as fuck. But most places dont waste the display space.
Rebel in Brisbane has a live M60 up top at the back though. Amongst other Cat R goodies.
>>30099017
one of the AR companies is wedgetail industries. they make some high end ARs
>>30090090
>naming it Atrax
cheeky shits
>>30095946
Word is they've pretty much fixed all the issues with the Lithgow AUG with this, but there will be considerable receiver and trigger group differences to meet ATF restrictions.
>>30098801
>why did we have m16a2's?
>>30098942
>Because the Army bought them and used them.
We had them because the GLA (grenade launcher attachment) was a relatively late edition to the F88. Prior to that grenadiers used an M16A2 with an M230. Before that there were M16A1s from Vietnam but these all but disappeared iby the late 90s.
>>30090432
>No need to be so salty.
You're on /k/, it's to be expected
>>30097476
I can't see why they would be any different. I used one of the original Steyr AUGs at a proof establishment and while the quality seemed better the basic components are all the same. The only interchangeability issue was the Steyr AUG uses a 2.2mm gas port for the double base propellant in NATO compliant 5.56mm rounds whereas the Australian F88 has a 2.5mm gas port to allow for the Australian F1 ammunition (single base and has a lower port pressure).
>>30099109
>>30099241
>THAY-lees
Wrong. It's French and they don't have the TH sound.
It's pronounced Tah-less.
>>30090090
>unlike traditional bullpups, the Atrax has an excellent trigger
that looks like a standard AUG trigger group though, which is supposed to be pretty mushy
As much as I despise the F88 in every and any form it comes in, that 40mm trigger looks pretty nice.
>>30096504
>Foregrips
Just send it in claiming it keyholes, most armourers are just retards who couldn't make fitters and will send you a new barrel assembly, including foregrip.
>>30099434
They are just buddy buddy with the right people and also ancient.
>>30100618
Armourers can't send you a new barrel m80. A new barrel can only be fitted at a CSSB or higher and there's no way a rifle would make its way there without the system stopping it.
But yes 90% of army trained fitters could never hack it in a real workshop
>>30100990
I have a mate who is a armourer in the Army.
Reckons most of the people he works with a borderline retarded. He has always been an angry cunt who doesn't tolerate fools though so not sure how accurate this is.
>>30099109
Actual Thales employee here.
"th" -- like in "tack"
"ales" -- rhymes with "Alice"
>>30101261
Be honest, is it a ghost town during Jewish holidays?
>>30101411
I'm at a different site m8, Thales is a big company.
>>30099125
Special forces
>>30101261
Holy shit. I've been wondering who the fuck these 'Talos' people who refurb shit are.
>>30101585
Yeah, they make the Bushmaster, F88 and a ton of software stuff.
>>30101043
>armourer in the Army.
>most of the people he works with a borderline retarded
Sounds about right.
>>30100558
>You're on /k/, it's to be expected
Don't justify being a shithead, dickwad.
