Are there any left wing militias in the U.S.? Anarchists or libertarian socialists of some kind like the Zapatistas in Mexico? Why does the militia movement seem to be dominated by the right?
They all got V& in the 70's
US government has been pillaging alternative sects for years.
>>29987099
because left-wing in america means hipster liberal faggots who oppose guns and the military
>>29987099
Black Panthers, Brown Berets
>>29987135
Not really, there's a lot different political views that are labelled left-wing.
I know a lot of pro-gun lefties. Especially the radical ones.
>>29987099
The right has always been more strict in doctrine, resulting a more militant style of governance.
The left enjoy a looser, more free impacted way of governance. This why you are so quick to see them develop mob rule.
>>29987135
>tfw the real left is dead in the west
>>29987099
The only US Left Winged Militia that we Puerto Rican sucfered from are the Independistas. A political party seeking sovereignty from the US and a bunch of filthy socialists. They were respnsible for several bombings and are full of left winged faggots.
>>29987150
probably one of the tiniest minorities on earth
>>29987146
Seems weird that the only left wing militias in the U.S. we're organized along racial lines instead of class lines like in most other countries.
Because they discovered it was easyier and more effective to co-opt and hijack existing systems than destroy them.
>>29987162
Take it from me, being a pro-gun lefty sucks balls. Being a left-libertarian is like being a fucking unicorn.
>>29987099
As someone who lives in a country that historically had several extreme left militia groups stir up shit, you should be thankful it's the way it is.
An armed left is nothing but an invitation for organized thugs and misfits to plunder and abuse society under the guise of equality.
Actual Liberals are pretty much non-existent in the U.S. in terms of an organized movement. UNLESS they just say fuck it...and go join the existing militias.
"Extreme" Leftist 'Merica is in college crying that uncle Bern Bern is losing the race. And didn't even vote for him in the first place because they had midterms due on voting day, or they refused to get off Reddit where they could make a REAL difference, by telling other people (who also didn't vote, or voted for Trump.) to vote for Comrade Bernie.
>>29987157
Yep, being Left-wing actually used to mean something.
>>29987201
How is an armed right any different? Thugs are thugs no matter what banner they use.
>>29987157
i see a bunch of easily manipulated women. seeing as how advertisement is geared towards women as they buy 85% percent of all goods, it only makes sense that political advertisement is focused on women. tell them they are being oppressed and will get free stuff if they advocate socialism and boom you have a movement.
>>29987203
Didn't vote for Bernie, but I'm glad my state is vote by mail.
>>29987185
>left-libertarian
Isn't that just social liberalism?
>>29987210
That's a picture of workers striking for higher wages. Who would possibly be manipulating them into doing that?
Socialism is less dangerous than neoliberalism imo, governments are a lot easier for their people to control than transnational corporations.
>>29987215
I'm voting for Trump because fuck Hillary.
>>29987217
It can mean a number of things. I can mean alternatives to both capitalism and state control, things like co-operatives, soviets, etc. Or it can mean state economic control within the framework of a democratic and libertarian political system that protects the rights of its people to dissent, protest, bear arms, etc.
kill yourself OP.
>>29987208
An armed right, actual right not just snowflake socialists, has the express objective of being left the fuck alone and protect themselves, not spread social causes by arms' means.
>>29987099
>>29987320
But there are left wing groups that do the same thing, I already mentioned the Zapatistas. Not to mention that right wing militias do plenty of harassing (the Contras come to mind). Numerous right wing militias have also threatened armed revolt on several occasions. Sounds to me like you are blurring the distinction between left/right and libertarian/authoritarian.
>>29987162
>>29987185
>http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-gun-policy/
Even fucking Sanders is pro gun.
>>29987340
Contras were as politically motivated as any other drug cartel, which they were. The left is always going to have an expansionist plan since their ideology has a scope on all of society and not the individual.
And don't give me that retarded left-right auto-liberal paradigm as if the posibility of different combinations of power were realistic.
>>29987392
>The left is always going to have an expansionist plan since their ideology has a scope on all of society and not the individual.
Not always, there have historically have been plenty of left wing groups that just carved out their own little enclave and told everybody to fuck off. The Tito's Yugoslavia, the Zapatistas and the YPG are examples.
Also your no-true-Scotsman is showing by denying that the Contras were a "real" right wing militias. I suppose Right Sector and other nationalist groups aren't "real" right wingers either?
Hell even important factions in the Soviet Union wanted to have peaceful coexistence with the capitalist world.
>>29987217
Since the 60s or so, organizations like the John Birch society have recast the word libertarian into an extreme right wing pro capitalist ideology, and this kind of usage of the word has skyrocketed lately (though this is a largely north American phenomenon.) So those of us who have views that are described by the traditional usage of the word libertarian (anarchists, socialists, communists) now have to specify "left-libertarian."
It gives my butt extreme hurt and is annoying.
>>29987392
>And don't give me that retarded left-right auto-liberal paradigm as if the posibility of different combinations of power were realistic.
Anon there have been economically left societies that were politically democratic (the social democracies of Europe come to mind) and there have been economically right wing societies that were politically authoritarian (Pinochets Chile is an example). Idk why you find such a concept so hard to wrap your head around.
>>29987505
>Also your no-true-Scotsman is showing by denying that the Contras were a "real" right wing militias. I suppose Right Sector and other nationalist groups aren't "real" right wingers either
In relation to the US ones we're discusding? Absolutely none.
These militias seek to enforce constitutional rule and the protection of rights independently from the state institutions. They are an adversary to the government and simply can't come to be in other systems in which the monopoly of power is inherently assured to the state.
>>29987349
>Gun control should be left to the states with the exception of a federal ban on assault weapons.
Sanders is not pro-gun.
>>29987553
But if they want the government to behave a certain way (following the constitution etc.) then aren't they following the same universalist ideology that you are criticizing? These groups clearly want the government to act according to their political beliefs (in this case capitalist libertarianism) so how are they any different?
>>29987544
>i-it's my ideology you evil capitalist pig, stop stealing it
Wew
Black Panthers, Brown Berets, Communist Parties stockpile weapons but usually only use thuggery for violence. Maoists can also be expected to have weaponry. All of these groups have a poor overall militant strategy and refer to historical struggles as guidelines for how and when to use weapons of war and build an army from party cadre.
>>29987099
Libertarian socialist?
oh and I would argue that the Zapatistas were not leftists. sure they were idolized by white leftists as being leftists but they saw themselves as downtrodden mexican activists who did not reap enough benefits from the state oil industry and they bombed things to make their beliefs known. as soon as the government gave them more money for dem programs they shut right the fuck down.
Leftist are cucks
I don't really think that they would ever allow any kind of leftist militia in US.
>>29987544
>traditional usage of the word libertarian (anarchists, socialists, communists)
That's not the "traditional" use of libertarian at all though. It's a common slur against libertarians used by righties to try to lump them in with lefties (y'all are just a bunch of anarchists) but that doesn't make it common use. What the fuck are you going on about?
The Weathermen Underground existed.
I think its that the left generally gets what they want so they have no need to form militias.
>>29987544
>It gives my butt extreme hurt
As it should, because left-anarchists and libertarians have a tenuous grasp of the word "liberty", and declare certain kinds of property ok to own and others literally worse than Hitler.
>>29987242
This is what will get Trump elected.
>became /pol/
>>>/pol/
>>29987099
left wing militias , oh you mean the us government?
>>29987655
He's kinda right. The term libertarian was attempted to be co-opted by groups like the John Birch Society, but that really didn't still. Groups have had better success trying to co-opt libertarian to mean right-wing an-cap. The actual Libertarian Party is pro-business, globalist, limited government, socially liberal, and politically isolationist.
>>29987099
>Libertarian Socialists
> Mutually exclusive terms
That aside, have a look at BLM. I'd consider them to be a left wing "militia" of sorts.
>>29987099
>I'm a cuckold and i'd get killed just to see more mexicans and niggers raping my country
Kill yourself my man.
Leftwingers stopped being militant in the 70's. Lots of bombings all across the western world coupled with government propaganda campaigns made them very hated by the public after a while. Since the 80's they've used victimhood and more passive 'grassroots' methods to be more effective in gaining support and having the mainstream media on your side doesn't hurt.
>>29987568
>absoluteharam.jpg
>>29988186
You should try actually reading some of the texts from the philosophies you are criticising. I always read the primary texts of an ideology before I argue against it, so that
1) I can be intellectually rigorous and not dismiss something without genuinely considering it.
2) I don't sound foolish when I attempt to levy a criticism against it.
Your post sounds very foolish because you are attempting to criticize, in one broad stroke, centuries of political philosophies, without understanding one of the most basic terms that underpin them (the Marxist definition of property.)
>>29988092
Libertarian meant socialist since about the time of the Enlightenment. This is a historical fact that Internet posts wont change. Read about it for yourself.
>>29987655
I feel like you are misconstruing the tone of my post because you don't like the statements I made, in an attempt to imply that they are less factual than they are.
But that's not how facts work.
>>29988251
Probably more like the anarcho liberal militias in Greece who shoot rocket launchers and machine guns at rich people luxury car dealerships and American Ambassadors
Black Lives Matters should be considered as one with their riots and such. Then there's ANTIFA in Sweden, although they're no guns, their starting to arm themselves with knives and what not. Lets hope it stays that way.
>>29987156
Duty vs Freedom
>>29987349
When will this meme die?
You fuckin Bernie cocksuckers will do all sorts of fuckin mental gymnastics for Bernie to be pro everything
>>29987157
Haven't listened to it yet but the latest War Nerd is about left-wing guerrilas in the US.
RedNBlackSalamander on DeviantArt makes some good left-wing cases for gun rights.
>>29989644
pure gold
although no female liberals would ever carry a gun unless their boyfriend convinced them to.
> dude getting c-cked
it's like they can't stop.
>>29987099
because we all hate each other and can't agree to anything, we would probably end up killing each other
see /leftypol/ too much infighting to properly form a group
>>29987238
>Socialism is less dangerous than neoliberalism imo
They're both shit.
because nowadays there's basically no real liberals left, since everyone's a prissy asshole who thinks that guns are evil and we should bend over backwards to let the government 'take care' of us.
the only actually-liberal people who'd ever support any sort of militia are anarchistic old chicks from the 70s and the likes. granted, those anarchistic old chicks are pretty fucking cool, but there's not exactly a whole fucking lot of them.
>>29987099
>libertarian socialist
wat
>>29987099
>Why does the militia movement seem to be dominated by the right?
leftists are pussies
>>29987349
>http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-gun-policy/
>Bernie believes assault weapons, as well as magazines holding more than ten bullets, should be banned nationwide
>pro gun
I don't think so, you Communist filth.
>>29987157
I miss the IWW
>>29989644
>CCing a 1911
>>29991220
>makes pro gun post
>post pic of freedom hating gun grabbing faggots
>>29991329
/pol/ is very pro gun as long as they can use guns to throw temper tantrums, and nobody else can have any.
I've met a few, as a libertarian (fuck taxes love laizzes faire) and not one of you commie Bernie loving fans we agree on some things but disagree on much more.
The main difference between us is that I practice with my guns, run, workout, and am in decent shape. None of them do, and only a few are in good shape.
>>29987099
Because the left wing hates guns
>>29987349
i love bernie as much as the next bro, but he is definitely not pro-2nd amendment.
he does seem rather 'hands off' with the issue though.
>>29987349
>#FeelTheMemes
He's a fucking fudd lord.
>>29988116
everyone forgets they bombed the fucking US capitol building.
no one died, but still thats pretty fucking crazy. especially considering they were ex-hippies.
>>29989644
>getting this gun will make her unsuck that dick said rapist used to pump loads of cum into her mouth and ass.
Damn you boner. Why must you have these fetishes.
>>29987099
Because they actually went active during the cold war and the feds fucked their shit up.
Look up the symbionese liberation army.
>>29991038
>Libertarian socialism (sometimes called social anarchism,[1][2] left-libertarianism[3][4] and socialist libertarianism[5]) is a group of anti-authoritarian[6] political philosophies inside the socialist movement that rejects socialism as centralized state ownership and control of the economy,[7] as well as the state itself.[8] It criticizes wage labour relationships within the workplace,[9] instead emphasizing workers' self-management of the workplace[8] and decentralized structures of political organization,[10][11][12] asserting that a society based on freedom and justice can be achieved through abolishing authoritarian institutions that control certain means of production and subordinate the majority to an owning class or political and economic elite.[13]
>>29987185
>left libertarian
LOL
>>29991620
>"government should stop fucking with us!"
>"not plutocratic elites though, they should be allowed to fuck with us if they want to"
>>29987349
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm
No he isn't you fucking shill
>>29991595
So this is an antonym of Socialism with Socialism in its name.
>>29991329
are you a retard? You think the Nazi's were anti-freedom or anti-gun?
>>29991662
Taking away the means of production from the people that own it sounds real libertarian let me tell you.
>>29991691
Not really, because socialism always took multiple different forms. Socialism as most people understand it stems out of Marxism, which calls for an intermediary "workers state" that would govern in the interests of the people until they could develop a state of communism and abolish state control.
Other philosophies thought that non-state methods of giving the worker's political power were better.
What makes it "socialism" isn't the use of state power, it's the distribution of wealth and political power to the workers.
>>29991731
It is if those people are using it to erode the democratic rights of the majority of people and keep them in a state of subjugation. Taking power away from a dictator infringes on his freedom too but nobody complains then.
>>29991329
You could own guns if you werent untermenchen
>>29991776
Tell me how people having more money then you takes away your democratic rights?
>>29987099
Because the modern left have decided that the government are their allies against corporations and because most of them are a bunch of vegetarian no guns pacifists.
also
>libertarian socialists
Contradiction in terms much?
>>29991805
Because capitalism is systematically redistributing property and wealth towards the upper classes, providing them with greater political power at the expense of the common people.
Studies show that whenever public opinion conflicts with the interests of the top 10% of Americans the top 10% almost always gets their way.
Not to mention that neoliberalism and globalism has driven down the wages of most people relative to their productivity and is effectively impoverishing them while the richest get richer.
>>29991867
Governments are easier to control than corporations. Governments are public, they're easy to identify, they can be influenced and controlled through votes.
Corporations hide behind subsidiaries, exist across dozens of nations, are accountable to nobody, and exist for the sole purpose of enriching themselves.
>>29991879
neoliberalism and globalism has been put in place by the people leftists have voted for, repeatedly, decade after decade.
>>29987099
because in america, the people on the left always wait for someone else to do <whatever> for them.
liberals are not what you'd call "go-getters."
>>29987242
im writing in my own name becuase i know what a fucking ballot looks like
>>29989644
>ccing with one in the chamber
women
>>29991951
what are you, 12?
you're obviously too young to remember george herbert walker bush telling us about the NEW WORLD ORDER
why dont you stop posting until mommy gets home.
>>29991951
Yes and no. The Cold War really soured the image of the left in the West, and the result has been left wing parties moving more and more towards the political right. Then the advent of Raegenomics cause things like free trade and trickle down economics (policies that are a major part of neoliberalism) to be considered "common sense". As a result the pacification of what had previously been the political left reached an advanced stage, and the real economic left basically doesn't exist anymore in mainstream western politics. Western progressive have refocused their attention to social issues and other such things instead of their original principles of challenging big capital.
No mainstream left wing party anywhere is openly calling for the dismantling of capitalism like they used to, the farthest left you see are those calling for a return to Keynesianism or some kind of social democracy.
TLDR: The right has become so dominant that even the left is centre right.
>>29992089
>No mainstream left wing party anywhere is openly calling for the dismantling of capitalism like they used to
Which has far more to do with the dramatic repeated failures of commie economics throughout the world, than the cold war or the perception of leftism.
These communists didn't disappear
The US government & politics is dominated by communist views, they call themselves progressives or socialists
The republicans are owned by people who look favorably at communism.
>>29992108
>The US government & politics is dominated by communist views, they call themselves progressives or socialists
The republicans are owned by people who look favorably at communism.
You wouldn't happen to be on drugs right now would you?
>>29991756
>What makes it "socialism" isn't the use of state power, it's the distribution of wealth and political power to the workers.
That distribution is still done by force, which infringes on someone's liberty.
I consider American libertarianism an attempt to pragmatize and politicize voluntaryism. Redistribution of wealth and fucking with private ownership is pretty contrary to that.
>>29991879
>Studies show that whenever public opinion conflicts with the interests of the top 10% of Americans the top 10% almost always gets their way.
I'm inclined to say that this is a flaw in how the government works (and the corruption it enables), not because of ownership of means of production.
>>29992127
hm?
anti-racism and anti-discrimination are communist views, yet they dominate political debate
Progressive income tax is a marxist idea
Non-white mass immigration was put in place by communists, hasn't been stopped yet.
>>29991329
Only the Jews had their guns taken away, because they were no longer considered German citizens. German volk still owned and carried guns.
>>29988116
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Weatherman_actions
Can't believe these fucking communists funded te anti war campaign. Nothing but a bunch of useful idiots for the Soviets.
>>29992157
>That distribution is still done by force, which infringes on someone's liberty.
But their ownership of the means of production gives them far greater economic power and political influence, thus infringing on the liberty of the majority. Two things need to be understood about property, it is inherently tied to freedom, and it is exclusionary.
Somebody who owns property has more freedom then somebody who doesn't for many reasons, suffice to say that they have more options in life and are more capable of pursuing whatever they want to. Property is exclusionary, meaning that if you own something you are by definition depriving others of it. This essentially means that a system that redistribute wealth upwards is depriving people of their freedom that they would otherwise enjoy if they had access to that wealth.
Property rights aren't inherent, they are designed to protect freedom. But when it becomes apparent as it has that they have done more to infringe on freedom than protect it then they have to be replaced with something else.
>I'm inclined to say that this is a flaw in how the government works (and the corruption it enables), not because of ownership of means of production.
You're largely correct, but the thing is that a capitalist democracy is like a benevolent dictator: possible in theory but almost never actually occurs in practice.
If it were possible to get money out of politics without reigning in capitalism then I'd be all for that, but I seriously doubt that it can be done. The political power of the economic elites must first be broken.
>>29992229
Why are communists allowed to post
>>29992157
A five-minute look at the working conditions and the effect on the lives of working people during the Industrial Revolution showd that unregulated ownership of large kinds of capital like factories, Mills and people's homes has nothing at all to do with Liberty and in fact produces conditions of absolute tyranny. This is why no one takes American libertarianism seriously.
>>29992252
I say we form some kind of task force to silence them without examining their views or replying to their points
>>29992267
a 5 minute look at history shows those conditions are the NORM everywhere, prior to increasing worker productivity brought about by capitalism
>>29988492
What BLM are you talking about? Certainly you're not just incredibly confused about the Bundy land standoff and what the BLM ism
>no one is this retarded.
>>29992229
Man, there are actually other leftist to post here. You got any guns?
>>29992287
They are the norm in every country where organized labor is able to be destroyed by pure physical violence.
Those conditions were improved by militant labor struggle not by any magic capitalist economy nonsense.
>>29992309
>Those conditions were improved by militant labor struggle
This is bullshit
Complete and utter bullshit
You cannot COMPEL wealth creation
Things like shorter working days, vacations, higher pay, etc all come from greater worker productivity, nothing else.
>>29992287
Like they're the norm in every country where the United States has forced neoliberal economic policies down the throats of the people that live there bro
>>29992333
?
You think subsistance farming is fun and games?
You think hunter gathering leaves you with surplus wealth or time?
>>29992324
And this is why there is no communication between Libertarians and people with an actual concern for the historical record.
The thing that most disturbs me about this post is that you actually probably believe that that is true somehow.
I mean really maybe instead of getting mad I should just ask you to point me to the books that you're getting that from so that I can read them because maybe you don't believe this but I will read them if you tell me what they are
>>29992066
>not ccing with one in the chamber
>>29992157
lol libertarians getting autistic about the usage of force, even though they promote competition
fun fact: the first thing corporations with any weight would do after the libertarians got rid of the tyrannical state is to build a new one that benefits them exclusively
>>29992324
Like dude even an economics textbook or something completely in favor of this type of ideology that you're pushing would still be willing to admit that labor conditions were improved by uniom organization it's just a historical fact
>>29987109
well at least those are great shoes with a great anthem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fR2OgGbKds
>>29992381
>>29992352
This MAY have been true 100 years ago
But since WW2 all unions have done is kill industries, loot tax payers/companies, and serve as a wing of the democrat party.
>>29992165
Yes and entire economic apparatus of the U.S. (which is the single most important part of communist ideology) is about as far away from communism as possible.
They have just borrowed certain left wing ideas that were more palatable to the ruling classes, they haven't accepted any of the core principles of communism though.
>>29992397
Okay well hundred years ago is exactly the period when the militant labor movement, mostly led by socialists, was struggling to improve the conditions that arose during the Industrial Revolution so you just admitted what I said is true.
>>29992397
And actually I agree with you about most of the business unions being mostly just an extension of Party politics. There is actually a reason for this and that's because During the interwar period and the post-war., the actual radical labor movement composed of socialists and anarchists was violently smashed through government witch-hunt, like Wilson's Red Scare and McCarthyism so all that's left where the sorts of unions that were willing to just be a sort of collaborationist organization with existing power. They've been left alone because they don't really do much to challenge the capitalist economic system.
>>29992397
Unions are dead dude and they have been as such for 20-30 years
Like they don't even have any political influence anymore and take whatever wage cuts their companies give them
You can't blame them for an anemic economy anymore
>>29992413
It's not really true
Their rioting and other nonsense was harmful to them, and then growing worker productivity enabled greater wealth
>>29992291
Sure, mostly fudd stuff though. A BLR (pic related on the right, the left is my uncle's), a K31, a Savage Model 64, some ancient Swiss double barrel that I have yet to identify and a single shot 12g. I'm also saving up for an SKS.
Have to keep the plutocrats and their state cronies from infringing on my freedom somehow.
It's just like hnnngggg if we could all get together to shoot tight groups and all read each others recommended books and honestly think about them we could all probably bro down together to a large degree.
Most leftists hate NPR listening liberals just as much as you do, and all we really wanna do is try to increase and preserve human liberty.
>>29987217
>>29987258
It can also mean anarcho-communism.
>>29992438
If that's the case then why have wages stagnated despite increasing productivity?
>>29992526
Because mass non-white immigration, and increasing amounts of the wage being in non-monetary format
>>29989709
holy shit anarcho feminists are fucking for real and they do carry. here in georgia they were at counter protests against RooshV and the KKK. They feel like they have been fucked with for too long and they are tired of being fucked with.
All people deserve the right to arm themselves.
i'm happy that liberals are choosing to uncuck themselves and take responsibility for their own protection
>>29992505
This so much. Despite being a socialist I actually have a lot of respect for libertarians, I really wish that we would both make better efforts to understand each other.
The way I see it we both want a free and just society, we just argue about means. As far as I'm concerned that should make us allies. The real enemies are fascists, Islamists, and authoritarians of all stripes.
>>29992526
*raises hand!*
Ooh! Ooh! Because of the decline of domestic manufacturing and the financialization of the economy in the 1970's?
>>29992598
Right, which was a direct result of the policies implemented by the plutocrats who actually run the country to serve their economic interests at the expense of the majority.
>>29992629
>>29992598
>Plutocrats
more like left wing globalists who see socialist world government as the end goal
Even then, unions were more of a factor in driving these industries out, noone can run a business when the uppity union goes on month long strikes every few years
>>29991691
what's important is that we SEIZE THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION
>be me
>be left-wing gun enthusiast
>this thread gets me off
>>29992656
>more like left wing globalists who see socialist world government as the end goal
Right, that's why all these policies have just happened to benefit multinational corporations and the world's richest citizens. Everybody knows how much socialists just love massive bloated corporations and their billionaire owners.
You are right about the world government though, it's just a world government of corporate oligarchs who are no longer held back by democratic states like they used to be.
>>29992656
OK, there's a couple issues here.
I think that in order to communicate we're going to have to come to agreement about some terms.
I think that you are meaning the word "socialist" to mean authoritarian concentrations of power. Socialism is actually a theorized economic situation where workers themselves own and control their own workplaces and directly manage their own resources and work. It doesn't have anything todo with arbitrary unjustified power, and though it can involve horizontal organization and delegation of power, it doesn't have to, and this concept is not integral to the definition of socialism.
So the idea of "left wing" globalists who are seeking to create an authoritarian world government is really not accurate, nor would that sort of government be socialist
>>29992252
>>29992277
SHALL NOT BE INFRINDGED REEE
>>29992705
Not to mention that there is literally nothing even remotely socialist about globalist neoliberal policies. Quite the opposite actually. They have resulted in an unprecedented increase in the economic power of corporations and massive polarization of wealth. There are now 62 people who control 50% of all the wealth on Earth.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/just-62-people-now-own-the-same-wealth-as-half-the-worlds-population-research-finds-a6818081.html
>>29992291
fuck yes I do
>>29992675
>be me
>consider myself left of center
>see posts like this
>remember that ultimately, it's better to kill all of the communists than end up like Venezuela or Czechoslovakia
Nation of Islam is lefty
Weather underground is lefty
Black Panther is lefty
louis p newton gun club is lefty
the rest aren't talked about by the media...cause the media is lefty.
Yes there are red action groups all over the USA.
>>29992759
Fucking this.
I mean honestly, I just think to myself sometimes, people on the far right are so mad about completely made up things like conspiracies of jewish people and such, I feel like they just like being mad.
And like if they'd join us in the real world for just a minute, they'd see that there are tons of things, like what you've explained in your post, that are ACTUALLY HAPPENING that you could get REALLY fucking mad about. A good time could be had by all.
>>29992795
Left wingers accuse the media of being right wing.
Right wingers accuse the media of being left wing.
Does that prove that it's neither? Or that talking about "the media" like its a single thing is retarded?
>>29992590
he'll yeah y'all can check out my new side charging ar-15 and we can talk about dismantling tyranny
>>29992776
Yeah I'd take liberal western capitalism over the Soviet Union any day. The I take the "libertarian" part of "libertarian socialism" far more seriously than the "socialist" part.
>>29992776
>end up like Czechoslovakia
wut
>>29992887
>dirty commies coup your government
>end up as a slave to foreigners for generations
This is coming from somebody who views Scandinavia as the ideal model for a society, if anyone is close to actually seizing the means of production, they need to be put down quickly and brutally.
>>29992590
>Despite being a socialist
Yeah, how about no....
>>29992911
whatever you say mr. soros
>>29987099
>Anarchists
Anarchy is at the far right of the political spectrum
>>29992932
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You don't agree with me politically so you are unwilling to even consider anything I have to say even though my goals are the same as yours.
I am literally suggesting that libertarians and socialists ought to work together to search for ways to make their common goals a reality.
>>29993097
It's best to think of politics as a three axis scale.
Political, economic and social. Libertarian/authoritarian, socialist/capitalist, and conservative/progressive. These can exist in any combination.
Whether you want to label each side "left" or "right" is up to you, but historically political libertarianism has actually been associated with the left. Associating it with the right is pretty much a uniquely American thing.
For uniformed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
>>29987349
you sure?
>>29993133
If your goal as a socialist is to take away free enterprise through capitalism then our goals arent common.
>>29993354
But why do you want free enterprise? Is it just for its own sake? Of course not, you obviously believe that free enterprise is the best way to maximize the greatest freedom for the greatest number. I also want to maximize freedom, we just disagree on how we can go about it.
Meanwhile there are people who believe that the greatest aspiration of a society shouldn't be freedom but something else, like subservience to God or the preservation of tradition even at the expense of freedom. These are the real enemies.
>>29993402
Or those that want to "seize the means of production" and destroy the country.
You have no right to something someone else owns and for that reason socialism is fundamentally immoral. If I own a buisiness, you may not have it.
>>29992066
What the fuck kind of pussy doesn't cc with one in the chamber? How do you plan on the racking the slide in the middle of getting mugged?
Because SJWs are fat and anti gun
>>29993441
You are completely missing the point m8. We both agree that freedom is good and should be preserved and expanded. That is the fundamental basis of both of our ideologies. Doesn't that mean we should be able to co-operate to some degree?
For the record lefties who refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the libertarian position are just as bad as libertarians who refuse to understand socialism.
>>29992365
Source?
>>29993317
>delusional berniecucks will defend this as being "pro-gun"
I see this meme perpetuated everywhere and its fucking moronic. The dude is openly a communist, he believes in nationalising private property. How in the world could you think he would be in favour of personal liberty and stopping the government from trampling your rights?
At the end of the day, socialism and the ideals that founded America are incompatible. Socialism is the enemy of productivity, progress and liberty. If you really support Bernie, you also support the idea of massive amounts of state sanctioned theft, irresponsible santaclaus promises and the erosion of your gun laws to Australia-tier levels.
Socialists are by definition bootlickers and I have faith in the American people rejecting this completely unveiled lunatic.
>>29987349
>To what extent does Bernie believe that gun regulation should be a federal issue?
Bernie has voted in favor of a nationwide ban on assault weapons, a nationwide ban on high-capacity magazines of over ten rounds, and nationwide expanded background checks that address unsafe loopholes.
>Bernie believes assault weapons, as well as magazines holding more than ten bullets, should be banned nationwide. Why?
In a recent speech, Bernie explained that, in his view, assault weapons should be categorically banned:
yeah fuck you
>>29993441
Who is more immoral? The man who steals to feed his family or the man who refuses to share his wealth and allow others to starve?
>>29993477
My understanding of socialism is that your goal of the greater good involves the seizing of assets from people you dont think deserve them and in the end fucks the country into the third world as demonstrated by many other countries throughout history.
>this time it will be different though!
>>29993515
The one who fucking steals. If he has to resort to theft to feed his family he has failed as a man and still has no right to use force to take from others.
>>29987349
"Federal ban on assualt weapons"
Nope. Back to gulag for you!
>>29993515
>You just gotta share the wealth guys!
>im not taking stuff from you, im GIVING stuff to me!
>>29993555
Nice trips
I'm not even that anon, but it is entirely possible for a man in modern society to end up in a situation in which he can't do anything but steal to support his family. That doesn't mean it's ok, but it is understandable.
>>29993501
This libertarian is getting triggered by nationalization pretty hard right now
Also, the Soviet Union exported more guns to overthrow more despotic states than any other country in the world
>>29992066
>carrying a 1911
>not carrying cocked and locked
It's like you want to die in a banzai charge.
>>29987185
>left-libertarian
that doesn't even make sense you mong, left and libertarian are opposing ideologies
>>29992291
Currently in uni, but once I get my own place. Yes
>>29993583
>cant help himself
Bull fucking shit and you know it. If you literally have so little value to society that you cant handle bagging groceries you do not deserve to be a part of society.
Personally though, I DO believe everyone is capable of that and anyone who says otherwise is making excuses for themselves or others.
>>29993927
I do agree that it sucks, but there are places even in the states where a job bagging groceries wouldn't be able to support your family or anything like it. Again, I'm not saying it's ok, but it is understandable.
>>29993950
Maybe if you live outside your means. Your family can work too. And even if this hypothetical were exactly as described that does not entitle you to anything someone else has.
So again, yes the thief is still the immoral one.
>>29993911
Not really. Libertarianism has more in common with anarchi-syndicalism than it does reactionary ideologies such as monarchism and fascism
>>29993480
Really?
The Brave One
All this time we've been looking for a man with a gun, but what if it was a woman with a grudge...
>>29987185
>>29994027
Thanks brude
>>29994033
Ive been waiting for this picture all thread.
>>29994008
It could be argued that society has a responsibility to all of its members, not just those it deems worthy. You seem to think that socialism/communism implies that things are taken from people unjustly, when in fact capitalism is the system that takes unjustly. Many workers in western societies are not paid fairly for their work, and the people who manage them get more than their fair share.
If paying a worker a proper wage for his labor is thievery than something is really, really wrong with society.
>>29993911
Read the thread you god damn retard.
>>29994033
Pretty much this.
>>29994098
Capitalism is based on choice. No ones taking shit from you. You choose to pay to get a good or service. You dont want to pay, either find a competitor or deal without. You are entitled to nothing. If you dont like your wage, find a different job or suck it up. Theres competition between companies when it comes to wage and benefits too.
Go on though. Keep telling me how taking other peoples property is really libertarian. How taking away individualism is really good for freedom.
I really hate the reds who dont realize theyre reds.
>>29992590
>The way I see it we both want a free and just society, we just argue about means.
That's the problem, the two groups have two very different ideas of what "free" means. From what I've seen, people that consider themselves leftist libertarians and anarcho-communists consider a person's ability to gain a disproportionate amount of the resources relative to their peers threatening to freedom, as economic leverage is a form of power. Rightists, however, see one's ability to do that is a freedom in and of itself as the power gained from said economic leverage is not instituted by a system of government and is potentially available to anyone by way of proper management of their private contracts.
With such a fundamental difference, it's hard for the two sides to cooperate.
>>29994033
WOW, ALL FOUNDATIONAL WORKS OF SOCIALIST LITERATURE BTFO BY A 300 WORD IMAGE LOL CHECKM8 NO FURTHER DISCUSSION REQUIRED WHAT MORE COULD THERE BE TO SAY?!?!
>>29991930
Governments can kill you or arrest you if you don't do what they say.
I would love to see Coca-Cola arrest you for buying Pepsi.
>>29989523
Freedom with no guns though
>>29994227
>no counter point
>calls image that actually did BTFO his ideology stupid
>>29994267
I don't think he was being sarcastic.
>>29994240
You know if they really wanted to they could pay enough politicians to make law so that you could be executed for buying pepsi.
>>29994315
No, they couldn't. If they so much as tried they'd be pilloried and mocked. The USa could barely get away with throwing shitskins into holes to die in after they blew up children without people screaming bloody murder, do you ACTUALLY think they'd be like "Oh okay, execute people over soda"?
>>29991329
found the kike
>>29994256
>Freedom
>no guns though
mutually exclusive
>>29988770
I think the memory of certain events from that time didn't help matters either. Kent State, Kennedy Assasinations and Mr. Whitman's Wild Ride, etc.
>>29993741
Cuba became a despotic state
Zimbabwe became a despotic state
China is despotic
North Korea is despotic
Iraq was despotic
Nice try, Ivan Ivanov.
>>29994160
People are taking shit from you in the form of labor and companies will always conspire against other companies and the global labor market Jesus fuck I shouldn't even have to tell you this you autist
Corporations will always conspire to turn the state into their personal tool or create one that does them even more favors should they not exist
>>29994507
Cuba by far was the least violent thing to come out of the Latin America compared to Chile and Argentina
>>29994533
I freely choose to give companies my labor in exchange for wage and benefits. Nobody is taking anything from anyone. Im sorry you hate reality where you have to work to move up in the world. Theres no corporate oppressor keeping you down.
>>29994507
>Iraq
Wrong country
You picked one backed by the Americans
>>29994561
No, you need to eat and have shelter you wage slave and companies have infinitely more bargaining power than you ever will as a person because they tapped into a market of 6 billion people that is impossible to regulate
>>29994572
>a bloo bloo people have to work for a living
You dont want to work? Build your own fucking house. Grow your own food. Dont take shit away from the people that earn what they have.
For the record, unions already exist for collective bargaining.
>>29994563
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq%E2%80%93Russia_relations#Iraq.E2.80.93Soviet_Union_relations
>>29994539
What is the Cuban boatlift?And what about the internment of homosexuals because "We would never come to believe that a homosexual could embody the conditions and requirements of conduct that would enable us to consider him a true Revolutionary, a true Communist militant. A deviation of that nature clashes with the concept we have of what a militant Communist must be." (That's Castro speaking)
>>29987099
There is a couple, you can do your own research I'm not going to mention any of them on here.
The issue is that there is too many people. More people therefore pay more in taxes and buy more consumer goods, therefore allow more of the money to float to the top.
Just too many people now-a-days for us to be free, the way people in the past imagined freedom, at least.
>>29994757
How does other people having more money make me not free?
>>29994757
>bawww I live in a world with easy access to technology, food and other amenities
I'm so sad for you anon.
>>29994315
Which is indictment of government. Want to curb rent-seekers? Give them no rents to seek.
>>29994776
Try owning a mom and pop store next to a Walmart, or have your job replaced by a factory moving overseas, or hires illegals, or gets robots.
>>29994786
Think about it like this, when the black death wiped out a real good chunk of the population, the survivors had it pretty good, the peasants could negotiate their wages because of work shortages, they could leave the farm and go work for someone who would pay them better.
It basically sparked the uplifting of western civilization out of the middle-ages.
The more people there are, the less people are worth. Its people inflation.
>>29992492
>no guns
>own very little stuff in my room, isn't all mine.
>sees commies owning more property and the means to defend them from my grubby hands.
STOP OPPRESSING ME!
>>29994854
>Think about it like this, when the black death wiped out a real good chunk of the population, the survivors had it pretty good, the peasants could negotiate their wages because of work shortages, they could leave the farm and go work for someone who would pay them better.
ahahhaha
wow
you
are
r e t a r d e d
e
t
a
r
d
e
d
>>29988770
One of them became an attorney general.
>I wonder what happened to the others?
>>29989601
I love this.
Read about how the russians used passports from the abraham lincoln brigade members to infiltrate spys into the US.
>Way to help the cause commie!
>>29993501
>the ideals that founded America:
>progress
That word has no definition
>>29989644
But liberals are prolife when it comes to criminals!
>>29991930
>Governments are easier to control than corporations.
Bullshit.
A corporation has to keep the public at least somewhat mollified if it wants to continue to make profit or else the public will cease to buy its product.
On the other hand if you refuse to pay the government for its services then they just have the IRS seize your wages, if that fails they send the cops to your door and then you either pay up, or they throw you in prison or kill you.
>>29994561
You're not freely choosing. You have to sell your labor, because the choice of growing food for yourself was taken away from you.
>>29995301
Ahahaha, you never worked for a big company have you?
I work at CVs we dick over customers constantly but guess what? There's only 2 big pharmacy chains and since the company also has a hand in insurance some customers don't even have the choice to take their prescriptions elsewhere.
But hey, I'm sure fapping to Ayn Rand is fun
>>29991721
Pretty much. When only a select few get to have rights/guns, thats pretty anti-freedom anti/gun.
>>29994033
So basically every communist country ever?
>Hello kim jong il!
>>29994240
Roving gangs of coke lovers kidnaping and executing pepsi drinkers.
> cola wars when?
>>29994539
Police states can be communist or Capitalist.
>>29995029
Not him, but it's true...wars, plagues, disaster, natural or otherwise.
A sudden drop in population opens up oppertunities
Civil wars and disasters are a reset button on the computer that is life.
>>29988216
Good. We need a nationalist. If Trump's only accomplishments are building the Great Wall of Trump and telling the UN to suck a dick, he'll be the best president we've had in over 4 decades.
>Israel is proof that a wall will work and not even be that expensive to build, btw
>>29995465
We have the franchise wars to look forward to...soon all resturants, fancy or otherwise will be Taco Bell.
Yea it sucks having many leftist views and being pro gun most of my generation doesn't care for guns or is outright against them and lean very left.
>>29995601
>against them and lean very left.
Being anti-gun is one of the rightest thing to do, since left is mostly about personal freedom
>>29995781
>since left is mostly about personal freedom
>implying
The left is all about communism and socialism and taking away peoples rights and freedoms because of muh feelings. The right is where the beliefs of individual freedom comes from. Stop trying to appropriate the glorious virtues of the right you libtard historical revisionist
>>29994757
I knew there would be an Anarcho-Primitivist in this board.
>>29995786
>>29995781
>since left is mostly about personal freedom
lol
Are you some retard from the 17th century who thinks ranting against the monarchy is pro-freedom?
>>29995530
Pespi is in bed with taco bell. But that wont save them from the power of coke!
>>29987099
Mostly BLM, but I'm sure there are armed branches of Indians and Muslims who would opt for self-defense.
>Huey P. Newton Gun Club (I've actually seen these guys protesting)
>American Indian Movement (most likely a CIA front or honeypot now)
>Pink Pistols is a pro-gay open carry group - They actually just lobbied to make DC shall-issue
>Some III% militias have leftist or libertarian members, even though they look right wind from the surface
Above all, you are the militia. If you have a gun and are leftist, you're a militia.
>>29994033
>implying coercion can't be used to protect freedom
The entire basis of right libertarianism is the use of coercion to protect rights, property or otherwise, with the ultimate goal of such coercion being the protection of freedom. The left libertarian argument is that somebody who hoards wealth and political power is infringing on the freedom of others, so coercion is justified.
You don't even seem to understand your own ideology.
black panthers were pretty violent.
had a retired cop neighbor from Chicago who was shot in the line of duty by some back in the 80's
>recieve call about a possible vehicular fatality
>pull up to supposed crash site
>he and partner get out of the car
>not only is there no wreck, neighborhood is dead quiet
>right as he was beginning to get that uneasy feeling
>*WHOP*
>feels like he got punched in the chest
>feels really winded, so he sits down on the curb
>all hell breaks loose
>looks down
>blood everywhere
>realizes he got shot
>he passes out
>doctors at the hospital actually open him up and restart his heart by reaching inside his chest and squeezing it
bunch of black panthers called in a fake call so they could ambush some cops. his partner dragged him to cover and radioed for backup. I think this was late 70's early 80's.
there were quite a few eco terrorists back in the late 80's early 90's who would do armed raids on animal research facilities, firebombing of mining, timber, and oil company employee's houses. They liked torching SUVs and stuff too.
why didnt it ever get really big?
the agencies were heavy into busting up gun-crazy cults and militias around the same time and they were quietly infiltrated and busted up by the shitstorm of alphabet soup that broke onto the scene in a very aggressive way due to the infusion of funding the war on drugs started pumping into america's law enforcement agencies starting in the mid 80's.
it was a very bad time to be any sort of militant. cops didnt need much training but they could suddenly get a hold of military hardware, and the biggest gun scare in america's history was going on big time.
people think we have anti gun retards now?
they obviously forget
"glocks are invisible to x-rays and metal detectors"
"teflon coated bullets turn any weapon into a baby skull seeking cop killer machine"
the multiple federal assault weapons bans
how handguns almost became NFA items
was a bad time to start a militia
>>29993522
>My understanding of socialism is that your goal of the greater good involves the seizing of assets from people you dont think deserve them
Then you have a piss poor understanding of socialism. The reasoning has nothing to do with who deserves what, it has more to do with the relationship between capitalism, property, and freedom.
Capitalism redistributes property towards the top, providing a small minority with disproportionate political and economic power that allows them to exercise control over the majority of the population as an oligarchy. They inevitably govern in their interests which almost always comes at the expense of the freedom and prosperity of the majority.
It isn't a question of deserving or not deserving the product of labour, it's a question of which economic system ensures the greatest freedom for the greatest number.
Does a system where a small collection of elites control all the wealth and political power sound free to you?
>>29996051
>This thing is actually okay because in my opinion it is, stupid
Oh okay thanks for clearing that up
>>29996072
>>29996111
see, this is why nobody likes /pol/ shit on here.
a potentially interesting thread just turns into two dweebs arguing about economics. fucking lame.
why not, ya know, talk about strange leftists militant movements or something?
but nooooooooo. thats just TOO interesting.
please tell me MORE about how fucking cool your two's favorite pet ideology is.
>>29996124
>stop bumping my thread with relevant conversation
k
>>29996111
You are completely missing the irony. Libertarians aren't anti-coercion, they are all for coercion when it's used to protect things like property rights because they see such coercion as being necessary to protect freedom. Left libertarians follow the exact same principle they just apply it to different circumstances. There is literally no contradiction involved.
The goal isn't to create a society free of coercion because such a society couldn't function. Somebody would coerce somebody else at which point some kind of coercion would become necessary to prevent the coercion of others.
>>29995302
It wasn't but keep telling yourself that, fag.
>>29996072
>capitalism redistribute
Let me stop you right there. There's no redistribution you retard. It gets to the top if you choose to put it there. Socialism "redistributes" the wealth because they take it from people through taxes or by forcefully "seizing the means of production" and then giving it to other people.
Also other people having more money than you doesnt make you less free. Get a job you bum.
>>29996504
>Also other people having more money than you doesnt make you less free.
b-but that guy can afford a Rolls Royce and i cant therefore im oppressed
>>29987099
>in the U.S.?
no. but in whole South America and Canada.
>>29987099
Are anarchists not entirely off the scale? I thought they were for no government, not more involvement.
>>29995302
>You have to sell your labor, because the choice of growing food for yourself was taken away from you
That's not even close to true. Just because you don't doesn't mean you can't.
