Ok /K/ lets do this Iowa or Yamato why wins in this fight
One on one? Probably the Yamato.
>>29974306
The one with an actual FCS.
>>29974306
Iowa uses its speed advantage to avoid the Yamato until its dark. Once its dark and the Yamato is blind the Iowa moves in and rapes its face.
>>29974306
Probably depends too much on the Commanders and conditions at the start of the fight to be worth a debate. Best you can do is compare the stats. Yamato was big and had big guns and armor. Iowa wasn't so big, but there were more of them.
Speaking of Yamato. There is a museum for it in Hiroshima. It would be cool to drive down and see it.
>>29974404
>Iowa wasn't so big
uwot
>>29974425
Yamatos were 70k tons
Iowas were 52k tons
Iowas weren't nearly as big as Yamatos
CMANO needs a full WWII DB with accurate fire control, damage control, and other stats so that we can play these scenarios out.
That all or nothing armour sheme will fuck the Iowa.
Some hits by the 46cm guns of the Yamato and there is not enough floating body left of the Iowa.
One reason why the Bismarck which was mainly designed for short range battleship engagements went with a more traditional armour sheme.
>>29974306
In a straight up 1 vs 1, nobody else involved fight, with competent crews on both sides....Iowa every time.
Superior effective range and damage control give it to them every time.
>>29974403
This.
Iowa's extra 5-8 knots mean it gets to choose when to give action. It has superior FCS and could engage from way the shit out, like 22k-25k yards with far greater accuracy than the Yamato is capable of at night.
>>29974509
>hitting a moveable target at 25k yards
What a long way to say you have no idea about naval gunnery.
>>29974509
It had better accuracy all the time, not just at night.
>>29974306
What's either sides' goal? What do they know about each other? Where are they fighting? What's the conditions like?
Can't really say anything without those.
>>29974520
Depends how autistic he is; longest range hits in World War Two were around 24 kilometers (more than 25,000 yards) against moving targets.
But it only happened twice, so might as well not rely on that happening reliably....
>>29974542
It wasn't common to start firing at the theoretical max range.
The hit probability was so low that it would be only a waste of ammunition.
>>29974480
The only time I've used the ww2 assets was for recreating The Final Countdown
[spoiler] a Zero somehow killed a Tomcat with its guns [/spoiler]
>>29974520
Depends on the conditions, but it's more likely than you think.
Let's take Yamato's record at Samar: Scored her record-breaking underwater hit on USS White Plains from ~34k yards at the start of the engagement, producing straddles with the second salvo from her chase guns and scoring that hit on the third. Then later she scored multiple hits on USS Johnston from about 20k yards during Johnstons death ride. And then she rounded it off by blowing a 4 by 4 foot hole out of Gambier Bay from ~22k yards with a radar-directed blindshot as Gambier Bay was fully obscured by a smokescreen at the time and only visually identified by Yamatos gunnery crews several minutes later. At which point her and Kongo put another couple shells into the CVE, dooming her.
>>29974480
I recently picked up Northern Inferno to try CMANO without breaking the bank, and oh man the learning curve.
>>29974306
Iowa has superior fire control because of the radar. Unless Yamato gets the drop on Iowa and engages her in perfect conditions, Iowa has the advantage, and even if Yamato's armor is adequate against Iowa's shells (it wasn't) Yamato is going to take a whole lot of punishment that is going to prevent her from engaging Iowa effectively.
>>29974425
Yamato is fucking ludicrously fat.
An advantage of not having to go through Panama.
>>29974306
In Daytime and not shitty conditions, Yamato might win with her superior optical FCS and longer-range guns, but at night, or poor lighting conditions, or shitty stormy weather, Iowa wins with her radar-guided FCS.
>>29974588
Those bodies are build for nothing but breeding.
>>29974520
>What a long way to say you have no idea about naval gunnery.
Quite a longer way to admit you haven't looked into American FCS capabilities, or historical engagements that show 22k yards isn't completely absurd.
Getting closer than necessary to the ship with more armor and bigger guns is something a retarded person would do. Are you retarded?
>>29974521
It had more of an advantage at night.
>>29974604
Also depends on how both sides act and what they know about each other.
Just for an example: Given only wartime knowledge, the Iowa's captain would be tempted to try to close in and guarantee the kill because he'd be under the assumption that Yamato is only packing 40cm guns that his armor has a notable immune zone to.
>>29974564
[citation needed]
For a large chunk of that really, can't find anything about Yamato's 'record breaking underwater hit'.
>>29974604
>optical FCS was better than radar FCS in the day
No.
>>29974637
The World Wonder'd: What Really Happened Off Samar, by Robert Lundgren.
Just the most detailed and comprehensive analysis of the engagement that was ever done.
>>29974639
>You can make blanket statemtns about "optical" or "radar" FCS as if there wasn't serious individual differences
No.
>>29974306
That's a glorious picture op
>>29974306
Would depend on engagement conditions.
Iowa has better FCS and longer range.
Iowa has face hardened side and deck armor. Yamato has face hardened as side and rolled homogeneous as deck.
Iowa has an armor layout that is meant to shear off the cap of AP shells and cause tumbling.
Iowa has faster speed.
Yamato has 460mm. Iowa has 406mm.
USN has better damage control.
If the Iowa got to start the engagement under first shot or optimal conditions she would win every single time. With her speed it would be easy to stay outside of the effective range of the Yamato while still returning effective fire. Even in range of the Yamato, Iowa could easily stay within the area in which the Yamato's shells would hit the deck and side armor at a bad angle.
The rolled homogeneous deck armor of the Yamato would allow plunging fire to be much more effective when hitting the deck and it was much easier for US BBs to do plunging fire.
If Yamato started with first shot or optimal conditions I have no clue. Maybe a 40/60 chance of her winning or losing. I'm pretty sure that both BBs were capable of penetrating each others armor if the shells hit at a flat trajectory. So it would come down to which ship managed to get the critical shot in first.
[spoiler]Besides I prefer Iowa and Kongou as a pairing.[/spoiler]
>>29974604
> Yamato might win with her superior optical FCS
Reminder that Yamato used colored markers.
>>29974707
So? So did the Iowas, including having set colors assigned to each ship.
Pretty much every WWII battleship had the option to use dye markers for their shells. Their purpose was not to be able to see your shell splashes, but to tell them apart from those of other ships in a large action.
>>29974520
The West Virginia hit the Yamashiro at 23k yards on a first salvo in the dead of night.
You don't think the Iowa, with bigger guns and better fire control could do better?
>>29974384
This.
>>29974697
Washington/Kirishima best pairing.
No, I don't give a shit that Washington hasn't shown up in official art from anyone who isn't Chinese.
>>29974513
fucking faggots ruin everything.
seriously.
it was some gay dude who got in a relationship that went sideways, so the retard decided to blow the turret to kill the other dude and iirc himself to get rid of the evidence.
what an asshole.
>>29974404
It's a decent museum, although it's very gentle about the role of Japan in the war. There is a strong emphasis on the nationalistic duty of the individuals who got fucked up in the conflict, but no the larger 'why'. Still, both are beautiful ships and recently they had an exhibit that was basically this thread in a nutshell 'Yamato/Iowa' but unfortunately I wasn't around to see it. From what I understand though it would be a hell of a fight.
I'm not a huge weeb but I think Japan deserves more respect for it's indigenous arms production. No other asian nation has fucked with Russia (with some succes) or the west and really made a game of it. They lost and made many mistakes, but you have to admire their gusto.
>tfw going to see the glorious mighty mo in a week
my body is ready. gonna be taking shitloads of pics, anything in particular anyone wants to see?
(anchors, barrel plugs, surrender deck, shit like that)
![1463098889287[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ElhvR9a.jpg "1463098889287[1].jpg")
>>29975248
>Washington
>not South Dakota
Here, there's even an MC Axis design of her done by one of the official KanColle artists, Kuuro Kuro.
>>29975255
No, it was improperly stored powder and over-ramming
>>29975334
SoDak a shit, but damn son.
Damn.
>>29975329
That reminds me, which of the Iowas isn't federally funded and is undergoing deck repairs right now? I remember an anon posted pics of it covered in particle board
>>29975841
New Jersey maybe?
>>29974306
The Iowa is able to target and put accurate fire OTH where the Yamato cannot. That alone puts it well ahead of the Yamato. In addition the IJN used inferior quality steel in both their armor and AP rounds.
>>29974583
look for baloogan on youtube. spend a few evenings watching him play while he tells you cool military facts, then next time you play it will be like you've learned it overnight.
try to watch his videos in order, he eases you in.
>>29974583
oh yeah, it'll get easier though....btw head over to the forums to try out some of the scenarios made by the community
>>29975255
>falling for the lame excuse the Navy made up to hide their atrocious powder storing and handling procedures and unbelievably stupid disregard of basic safety measures
>>29974619
It's a cartoon you fucking weirdo
>>29977776
>>29978003
Why are you so mad anon?
>>29974306
As much as i prefer the Yamato, the answer is still Iowa.
>>29977776
>>29978003
>getting hardons over weapons is weird
Where do you think we are?
>>29978966
Pretty much.
They're weapons.
That are also cute girls.
You pretty much can't get any straighter than that
>>29976612
>>29976624
Thanks for the heads up.
>>29975334
>That AA emplacement.
>>29974564
Yamato never hit anything at Samar though. Gambler Bay was hit by 14 inch shells then finished off by a cruiser, Hoel and Johnston were never confirmed to have been hit by her, and I can definitely say she never hit a USS White Plains at that battle.
>>29974488
All or nothing armor schemes had enough buoyancy designed in the citadel to keep the ship afloat even if the rest is full of holes.
>>29979679
that's really smart
what kind of things were outside of the citadel?
Pretty sure the only way Yamato wins this is if they're dueling point blank with each other.
>>29974588
>>29974697
>>29975334
>>29978383
Stop posting anytime.
>>29974306
Iowa, no question about it.
Faster, more effective long range fire control, higher quality armor(Yamato was using WWI hardening techniques that was only 80% as effective as its American equivalent), better armor piercing shells, better overall fire control, and that's before we bring in crew, which Yamato's was quite poorly trained compared to her American counterparts.
>>29979703
Even that would be a bit questionable. Iowa's superheavy shells could punch right through Yamato's armored belt at those ranges.
>>29979738
No you
>>29979696
Still alot of things to keep fighting effectively. But it wont sink unless the citadel is full of holes too.
>>29974513
proof that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed in the military.
>>29979632
Outdated research. The most comprehensive study of the whole engagement using logs from both sides by now is Ludgren's work, and it paints a cosndierably different picture.
Gambier Bay was hit by both Yamato and Kongo, but the hit she received through the smokescreen can only have come from Yamato - Yamatos log notes engaging an unidentified target via radar-direction, with the same being identified a few minutes later as a carrier when the smokescreen dispersed and made optical contact possible again. Kongos log notes they only engaged Gambier Bay at around the same time as that, also using optics. Similar, Hoel and Johnston have been de facto confimed to have been hit by her because by the logs of the various IJN combatants, she was the only one in the direction from which they received said hits.
The entire issue so far was that most studies relied on either IJN or USN logs and witness accounts, while Lundgren actually went the whole way and used everything he could get from both sides to compare and find logical explanations for discrepancies - a lot of gunfire that could have only come from Yamato by the IJN logs for example has been identified as 14in by the USN ones. The logical explanation is that it did come from Yamato and US ships misidentified its source. (Doesn't help that you won't find any talk about 18in shells at all in any wartime USN reports - the US didn't actually know about the Yamatos having guns that size until after the war.)
And yes, she did hit White Plain right at the beginning of the battle. Specifically, she fired five salvoes from her six forward guns while closing in on Taffy 3 before being forced to turn away by air attack initially. The second to fifth of these scored straddles on White Plains and one shell on the third hit the water right in front of her and detonated underneath her keel.
>>29981070
No, nothing since the 80's has indicated a hit on the gambler Bay by the Yamato at any point in the battle.
As for White Plain, it was most certainly not hit by the Yamato at any point in the engagement. She was largely unmolested during the engagement, minus a kamikaze attack after the warships broke and ran, but was noted for detonating the torpedos on the Chōkai with her deck gun.
>>29977448
>>29975362
>literal butthurt faggots who believe the LGBBQTV propaganda
>literal dindus
>>29979840
Isn't the stuff in the super structure vital too? How did the ship function when that was destroyed like with the bismark?
>>29974306
>>29975334
South Dakota a cute but I'd rather have Washington. South Dakota fucked up in the 2nd Naval Battle of Guadalcanal and Washington basically carried the battle.
>>29982016
Command and control stuff. It's not going to help the ship's combat performance much, but it won't sink it and the main batteries can function without the bridge, albeit in a greatly reduced capacity.
>>29982016
Vital to fighting not to floating. Any lucky hit that knocks out the main FC, radar or bridge isnt going to be good.
Thats why the Bismark ceased fighting back after she started to get pummeled. She still floated though.
>>29974520
The Iowa and the New Jersey combined both scored straddles on the IJN destroyer, Nowaki, at the extreme ranges of their guns all while maneuvering at 30 knots.
Let's change it up a bit.
If they were placed 100 meters from each other, none of them moving, guns aimed perfectly at each other, and they both shoot at the same time, who would win?
>>29982591
they both sink, iowa can penetrate yamatos belt
>>29982669
>>29982591
seeing as they are both getting fucked up, Iowa has better damage control so maybe it wins
>>29975362
>Over-ramming.
The exact thing a faggot would do.
>>29974588
>>29982680
The battleship geeks say so. There are whole online societies that obsess over it. Chintzy steel, bad damage control, and worse radar doom the Yamato every time, or so they say.
>>29975255
>faggots ruin everything
sure does explain /k/ pretty damn well
>>29982794
Yamato's damage control seemed pretty damn impressive. They were able to correct a fairly heavy list by flooding compartments (Without alerting the men in them) or by purposely taking torpedo hits on the other side of the ship. The honeycomb design of the ship meant that when it was totally locked up, you would need to make a lot of holes and introduce a lot of water. She was built solid and her crew knew what they were doing.
While we really cannot infer much about the Iowa's damage control, which I'm still sure was superb, the Yamato lasted through six hours of air attack before finally going down.
I wouldn't claim either of them would be a definite winner in any kind of engagement. But I would say that as far as advantages go: Iowa has a better fire control system and AA (Not relevant in this battle), and Yamato has the advantage in potential broadside damage. While the 16in shells travel faster, 18in shells will punch a bigger hole.
>>29976469
NJ is a museum ship now also. I think maybe it's the Wisconsin
>>29983264
aha! the 16 inch shells would reach first and they would have faster reaction time if they both appeared 100 feet from eachother
therefore the yamato would technically die first when it's crippled by the Iowa
maybe the Iowa can even silence the yamato on the first barrage
>>29983304
That would require ether a magazine detonation or snipe the turrets so she can't fire back
>>29983264
Yamato's damage control ability was directly related to the skill of its crew particularity the dumb IJN officers who think correcting list by counter-flooding without pumping out water is 100% good practice (its not).
Musashi survived multiple bomb and torpedo hits due the fact that US planes attacked her put every bomb and torpedo they can into her without any regard or coordination on where they were supposed to hit. As a result Musashi floated until she took on too much water as a result from flooding and counterflooding. All the damage was spread out resulting in even damage. Her crews were exceptionally well trained in damage control and only sank because no one thought to pump the water out.
Yamato is a different case, disorganized/mediocre damage control efforts, liberal use of counterflooding to correct lists without simultaneous effort to pump water out all helped her sink far faster than her sister ship. To add more salt, the US strikes were far better coordinated as they concentrated on port side.
>>29974513
>>29975255
>>29980778
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion
says he was suicidal
>>29984067
So was the near entirety of Yamato's crew
I think we've concluded which ship would win: Neither because they both sink themselves.
>>29974306
Modern carriers are basically unarmored, one couldnt take a single hit without sinking.
>>29974520
The yamatos range was 45,000 yards, Iowa fags can't even reach it.
>>29974520
The yamatos range was 45,000 yards, Iowa can't even reach it.
>>29974588
I hate to say it, but Iowa-chan should have smaller 'guns' than Yamamoto who should be taller and bustier.
Iowa's leg and ass game though should be amazing.
I know I'm complaining about cute anime girls who represent warships more than a half century old, but eh, I can, so I will.
This is a thread for children.
>>29983999
To an extent I agree that Japan's reluctance to use pumps was a poor choice. Especially on this like their carriers such as the Taiho and Shinano where the wide open spaces, which were also prone to filling with fuel vapor and exploding, lead to ships quickly going down from few hits.
But on their battleships I'm not sure that pumps would have been any better. Pumps have to be transported, assembled, and have lines stretched to the nearest area to evacuate the water. That means opening compartments and possibly keeping them open. And in a fierce battle that means risking taking a hit to an opened area full of DC crews and pumps, which results in more flooding on that side and would still require a degree of counter-flooding if the list is too much. Japanese battleships were built around being able to take the damage, correct any immediate problems, and continue the fight.
>>29984241
Oh no doubt they were very fine ships and built with the expressed purpose to be stable during battle conditions. Its the sheer inability of the 1945 crews that makes me wonder had the Yamato respond better if the Musashi 1944 crew.
>>29984293
If the crews from the Yamato were swapped with Musashi's.
>>29974306
This pic real? What vessels am I looking at here?
>>29981070
>can only have come from
>de facto confirmed
>logical explanations for discrepancies
>could have only come from
So it sounds like this "comprehensive study" basically comes down to some autist memorializing his confirmation biases in a book. That's the problem with these amateur "history" books.
>>29974306
The one which's gunners aim better, these 1 on 1's are so stupid.
The one with the better crew wins, end of BS.
>>29984524
idiot
>>29984129
>Yamamoto
Anon pls, that's an Admiral.
Also I guess Yoshinori had the opposite idea from you. Iowa has bigger tits and appears to be taller (see >>29978383 ), Yamato has some thick thighs and hips.
>>29984393
Yes it's real. Midway and Iowa.
>>29984067
>47 killed
There's that many people in a single turret?
>>29974404
Been there. The 1/10 scale model is badass.
>>29984786
>The explosion in the center gun room killed 47 of the turret's crewmen
Makes it sound like there are more.
>>29984834
>Each turret required a crew of between 85 and 110 men to operate.
Damn. That just seems like a lot to me. Isn't that a significant portion of the crew size of most destroyers now?
>>29984529
The answer of a 5 year old, go and suck some milk kid, you need to develop your brain....if still possible.
>>29984888
idiot
>>29984888
idiot
>>29984904
>>29984917
More 5 year olds, good, stepping on your toes is really amusing. Though you are not as fun as Fail 35 faggots.
>>29984067
https://books.google.com/books?id=Yqn-_I-joz4C&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=iowa+ether+gas&source=bl&ots=rcIewAilZc&sig=6nCh4t4wa6RpgFr8zykN5DdT8Og&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPwa7UzePMAhVh_IMKHdNiBQsQ6AEIQTAH#v=onepage&q=iowa%20ether%20gas&f=false
Navy stowed the powder bags improperly and were leaking flammable ether gas.
>Powder from the same lot as the one under investigation was tested at the Naval Surface Warfare Center Dahlgren Division. Spontaneous combustion was achieved with the powder, which had been originally milled in the 1930s and improperly stored in a barge at the Navy's Yorktown, Virginia Naval Weapons station during a 1988 dry-docking of Iowa.
>As it degrades, gunpowder gives off ether gas, which is highly flammable and could be ignited by a spark.
>This revelation resulted in a shift in the Navy's position on the incident, and Admiral Frank Kelso, the Chief of Naval Operations at the time, publicly apologized to the Hartwig family, concluding that there was no real evidence to support the claim that he had intentionally killed the other sailors.
Yamato has 7 planes against Iowa's 3.
They can drop all Iowas planes then provide artillery spotting and flare all around Iowa at night.
>>29985405
You think so when even a DD has more throw weight than the Yamato class?
>>29974384
>The FCS meme
>>29985602
Fire-controll
Hitting things that are only seen on radar
>meme>>29985602
>>29984109
Just because it has range doesn't mean it can hit anything.
>>29983264
>six hours of air attack before finally going down.
Sounds like my ex.
>>29974306
One has planes.
One does not.
Pretty sure planes go further than giant guns.
Are you serious?
>>29985594
>102 thousand pounds
Atlanta plz.
>>29987891
Hotel vs Museum not Museum vs Midway.
>>29985594
>>29988005
It might be worth noting that is the effective throw weight when you account for the increase in effect from the VT fuse and not the actual throw weight.
>>29988018
Still.
>>29988023
Well yes it's still a fuck-ton of AA fire going out.
>>29985594
That was a very informative talk, dotcha think?
>>29988028
I think i read a few memoirs from a sailor on-board an Essex-class during the battle of Okinawa, with him stating that the only reason people on the carrier wore helmets were due to the shitload of falling shrapnel from the AAA-fire.
