So, they're giving old M60s uprated engines, replacing hydraulic turret actuators with electric servos, installing electronic targeting systems and mounting a 120mm gun.
Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/1wwUTEkRano
>>29972777
why?
>>29972777
The philli[ines, taiwan, or some other country have been wanting some american tanks for a while but cant afford Abrams. This will be great for them.
>>29972827
Because M60s are sexy.
>>29972777
Your picture is actually from a catalogue of a Turkish company.
>>29972827
Its a economy firepower upgrade for countries that still use the M60. Probably aimed at Taiwan.
>>29972827
Hell, I want one to tool around in. Besides, there's a pretty long tradition, starting with Israeli M51 Sherman tanks, of up engined and upgunned American armor punching well above their weight.
>>29972777
>>29972850
Well, I picked the sexiest uprated M60 pic I could find.
It just works.
>>29972827
Because tons of countries still operate the m60. Also we have like 10k of them in mothball.
>doing shit that the M60T/Sabra and M60-2000/120S did fifteen years ago WITHOUT THE SPACED ARMOR/ERA/NEW TURRET
Raytheon is fucking stupid.
The Israelis already cornered the market on M60 upgrades OVER A DECADE AGO.
WITH MORE OPTIONS TOO!
>>29972980
>Israelis already cornered the market
>1 customer
>>29973054
Yes, besides themselves.
The market is small but there's quite a few vehicles to upgrade.
Look at the list of M60 operators and think who'd be wiling and in a position to purchase upgrades (spoilers, it's probably the Taiwanese, and they'd probably purchase a domestic upgrade because they have a large military industrial complex). There aren't that many with actual budgets.
The Egyptians pulled out to purchase a domestic upgrade (as they almost always do).
But anyway, do you have any real criticism of my points? This upgrade offers less utility than upgrades over fifteen years old, and probably at a higher unit cost unless they're taking a loss to start out with. Why wouldn't you buy a Sabra upgrade kit for your M60s over this?
>>29972777
Good for second rate or second line units, but I'd just as soon keep the 105mm gun. The tank's beyond obsolete, and that's going to require a lot of money in new ammo and the gun.
105mm still does a damn decent job, iirc the challengers still use a rifled one.
>>29973104
>Why wouldn't you buy a Sabra upgrade kit for your M60s over this?
Because a Sabra kit lacks a modern FCS and thermal sights?
Because a Sabra kit costs more?
Because you might hate Israel?
>>29973199
A 105mm gun is ineffective against the frontal armor of anything a T-80's vintage or newer.
>>29972980
>WITH MORE OPTIONS TOO!
>ERA
>>29973199
Both CR1 and 2 use rifled 120mm guns.
105mm has been obsolete since the T-80 become mainstream.
>>29972850
Taiwan has their own upgrade programme that suits their needs
This is prolly marketed to countries like Thailand and Morocco
>>29973348
Cost mainly. It is marketed as "cost effective" solution to bring M60 to 21st century
>>29974890
T-80 have never been mainstream. Prolly the only country that still use them are Ukraine, south korea, pakistan and thailand
>>29972777
>dick status: muh
JUST A GOOD SOLID TANK
>>29972777
The only 120mm gun I'll never need is in your dad's pants
>>29974890
>105mm has been obsolete since the T-80 become mainstream.
Not really. It's all about ammunition.
>>29972846
T-55 upgrade is even sexier.
>>29976059
No.
No T-55 upgrade will ever look as amazing as the Enigma variant.
>>29976059
hahahahahaha...no
>>29973365
>>29974890
More like since T-64.
>>29974935
T-80 is about as numerous as M1.
>>29976108
How many t80s are there because the us has made thousands of m1s.
>>29976073
Meh.
>>29976117
About 10000, same as M1.
>>29976140
Wiki says about 5000 T80 where made so no about half as many as M1s.
>>29976260
Meaning wiki says bullshit. Again.
>A total of over 10,000 tanks have been equipped with GTD-1000T/1250 engines.
http://klimov.ru/en/production/landmarine/GTD-1250/
>>29976477
>http://klimov.ru/en/production/landmarine/GTD-1250/
>Installed on T-80 family tanks and other vehicles
Their talking about more than just t80s mate.
>>29976562
The "over 10,000 tanks" part is very specific.
>>29972827
While the 120mm gun is an excess for the armies that use those, you can opt for most of those upgrades but this one and receive very modern and relatively cheap MBT for use in places with relatively bad infrastructure, assuming that you want a tank with gun depression.
I personally think Raytheon should have bought the licenses for the Magach 6B gal batash, put in a 120mm and call it a day. Seriously slat armor? C'mon
>>29976595
Could be any tank 72s, 62s, 64s, 84s those polish ones, hell 54/55s.
>>29972777
But why would they ruin such a perfect design by attaching so much high-tech junk to it?
>>29976108
>China
>T-80
What?
>3 red nations to the left of russia which I dont remember the name of
When have they at any point in their history after 1991 operated T-80's?
>>29976625
Except "with GTD-1000T/1250 engines" part is also very specific.
>>29976677
Yes that it was mounted on 10000 tanks which is 5000 more than where made so the rest had to have been other models.
>>29976705
I think you're overthinking it. Remember, it's not uncommon for engines to be replaced.
The entire notion that Russia magically has thousands of T-80s just laying around is hilarious though and doesn't even deserve to be dignified with a real response.
>>29976705
In case you didn't know, no other tanks use this engine. It's exclusive to T-80, T-80B and T-80U.
>>29972777
Narrator of that video sounds exactly like the black lady of the new Rainbow 6.
>>29976736
Except it specifically points out the amount of tanks equipped with this engine, not the amount of engines produced overall. The entire notion that Russian magically doesn't have thousands of T-80 is hilarious though and doesn't even deserve to be dignified with a real response.
>>29976750
But the sight said it was not exclusive to the t80 also I think >>29976736 might have something to do with it.
>>29976778
Tell me more about all these thousands of other T-80s that Russia has that the manufacturer doesn't know about :3
>>29976779
Remember, the T-80 was known for its engine difficulties in particular, so it's not really surprising that a Russian engine would be absolute shit.
>>29976797
O right they did swap engines a few times that I know of, for most of them.
>>29976779
It's exclusive to T-80 tank and some other vehicles. It is specifically pointed out that 10000 _tanks_ have been equipped with it. There's nothing to argue about here.
>>29976797
Except the manufacturer specifically points out the amount of tanks. It is you who are trying to argue it.
>M-muh aircraft engines
>Memes
Are you upset?
>>29976839
Because every other source I can find says about 5000 where mad can you find anything other than a engine manufacturer that says differently?
>>29972920
But the ATGM completely missed the true turret and instead only hit the added armor package that expands the width of the Turret and even that added armor package was penned all the way through.
>>29976872
Every other source you can find is not a manufacturer and therefore has zero point double zero percent authority on the subject. It's this simple.
>>29972845
I don't think we can sell Taiwan Abrams tanks. We can only sell them previous generation vehicles or some such nonsense.
>>29972920
good for the crew that it was just a shitty russian atgm. If it was a TOW they would be toast
>>29972777
So what is left of the M60 and how much are these leftovers cost?
>>29976917
T-80 tanks include Cyprus (27), Belarus (90), Egypt (14), China (50), Azerbaijan (25), Yemen (31) and Ukraine (271). About 1,400 tanks are in active service in Russia and about 3,100 are in storage.
Shit like this is what I'm finding everywhere, it makes a single engine manufacturer report that admits it includes other vehicles suspect.
>>29972777
M60 120s is still cooler
>>29976617
>Cage armor
>Upgrade
Remember when Israel did the job right on upgrading the M60?
>>29972777
that turret all it has is 120mm barrel and the wire frame to stop RPGs, doesnt have a cool chobham or composite armor turret like Abrams and Sabra/Maghah IDF M60s
>>29976839
>Everything I don't like is a meme
k
So why can't you find anything from the actual tank manufacturer on how many were built then tovarish? :33333
>>29976996
Thats what I call an upgrade
>>29977013
this
>>29976996
its more of a SLEP than anything
>>29972777
what about this upgrade
>>29972920
key points
>turret still attached to the tank
Looks like the SLEP is for Slopes.
>>29976968
>admits it includes other vehicles
Not, it does not. It very specifically says that 10000 _tanks_ have been equipped with it.
>>29977043
>Every bullshit I say is true
Okay.
>>29973348
>Because you might hate Israel?
this was my first though
yeah sure Raytheon wasn't first to the party but buying these upgrades from Murica/Raytheon would be easier than doing business with Isreal for some countries
>>29976059
whatever you say Ivan
>>29977159
Anon I read it it says t80 and other vehicles why are you lying.
>>29977159
>not even attempting to disprove it and instead just calling it bullshit
I never understood why vatniks get so upset over this stuff.
>>29977219
>A total of over 10,000 tanks have been equipped with GTD-1000T/1250 engines.
http://klimov.ru/en/production/landmarine/GTD-1250/
>>29977236
>The engines of the GTD 1250 family are capable of running on diesel fuel, kerosene, gasoline or their mixtures in any proportion without readjustment; operating in dusty, moist and hot environments; handling combat tasks in deserts, tropical areas and the far North.
>This gas turbine can use jet fuels as well as diesel and low-octane gasoline, has good dynamic stability, service life, and reliability. The GTD-1250 has a built-in automatic system of dust deposits removal. It retains the T-80s high fuel consumption, which the Russian army found unacceptable during the Chechen conflicts.
I never understood why fatniks get so upset every time over everything.
>>29977299
http://klimov.ru/en/production/landmarine/GTD-1250/
Installed on T-80 family tanks and other vehicles
Again not all of them where t80s. Its a tank engine what else whould they put it on other than tanks that does not mean every one they put it on was a t80 they even say they did not just go on t80s.
>>29977325
Yes, it is installed on other vehicles too. However the only _tank_ that was ever equipped with it is T-80. And the manufacturer very specifically says that "over 10,000 _tanks_ have been equipped with GTD-1000T/1250 engines". Not "vehicles", anon. TANKS. There is nothing to argue about here.
>>29977354
Then why is there only ~5000 T80s made, also its 3 different engines they could have updated the fleet or parts of it a few times to get that number.
>>29977124
The Magach 7 aint as good as the 6B Gal
Magach 7 = Upgraded M60 (not A1 or A3) Including a completely new turret
Magach 6 = Upgraded M60A1s and A3s (extra armor for standard turret
>>29977124
>landing copter drones on the cannon
I don't see the tactical merit in it
>>29977354
Can you find anything else that supports your 1000 t80 number? Because I cant. Every one from janes to wiki to soviet armor sights all say about 4500-5500 now why would their be that much of a difference.
>>29977410
obviously its like how old battleships had spotter planes for long range shooting
>>29976797
Anon the answer is obvious.
They must be growing Tanks from the ground ala Lord of the Rings style.
>basing vehicle numbers off of spare parts.
By that logic we must have thousands of superi carriers and millions of fighter craft active.
> Originally fitted with a 1000hp GTD-1000 gas turbine engine, the tank was later fitted with a GTD-1250 gas turbine enginet.
That accounts for the doubled number they installed the 1000 series and then installed the 1250 series and used both for the 10000 tanks installed in notice the page is for both engines its the same tanks counted twice.
>>29977299
>copypasting wikipedia
>nothing even vaguely to prove the production of 10000 T-80s, let alone that slav engines are shit tier
This is just getting boring now.
>>29976993
>M60-2000/120S
Agreed, turning an M60 into an M1A1 light would be preferable in my opinion. Plus it looks neat.
>>29977603
That makes sense.
>>29976993
That is fucking cool anon, now your enemy will have it hard to find out which one is a real M1A1 if there is one.
It would also confuse insurgents.
>>29977076
Its literally called a SLEP, it is an economy method of squeezing a few more years out of a vehicle.
>>29972845
>Philippines
>Tanks
No thanks. Only place that would be useful is in Northern Luzon plains.
>>29976059
>>29976129
I'm with you senpai.
>>29976617
>>29977013
>>29977655
The whole point of this upgrade is to be cost-effective for poorfag armies. The other upgrades offer great improvements in armor, but they're pretty expensive
>>29973365
You double nigger got no fucking clue about modern 105mm ammo
>>29978580
An M900 will not penetrate a T-80 with Kontakt-5.
>>29977395
Because it's false. No official source relevant to the tank in any way suggests only 5000 T-80 tanks were made. On the contrary, the only official source relevant to this tank quite clearly states 10000 number.
>its 3 different engines they could have updated the fleet or parts of it a few times to get that number
This is incorrect, since GTD-1000T is used on pre-T-80U models and GTD-1250 is used on specifically T-80U models.
>>29977415
10000, not 1000. I have linked the statement from the official manufacturer. Anything else is irrelevant.
>>29977650
Fatnik, please. You requested to disprove your laughable claim that T-80 engine was unreliable and I linked you the quotes that state so. The number of tanks is clearly stated by the manufacturer. You can like it or not, but there's nothing you can do to alter it. Manufacturer is THE source. Anything else is irrelevant and subjectuve.
>>29980359
>the only official source relevant to this tank quite clearly states 10000 number
Your official source obtains its 10000 number by counting 5000 T-80's with the GTD1000T engine, and the same 5000 T-80's when they were upgraded with GTD-1250 engines.
>>29980359
Ocнoвнoй бoeвoй тaнк Poccии. Oткpoвeнный paзгoвop o пpoблeмaх тaнкocтpoeния is quite negative about the T-80's engine.
Upgraded tank thread?
>>29980515
That's absolutely not what the official source does. Which is rather clear not only from the direct quote of the source itself, but also from the fact that there was no such an upgrade.
>>29980771
A rather emotional no-name source versus the manufacturer? Nah. Cлoвo пpoизвoдитeля пpoтив жидeнькoй cтaтeйки c нaзвaниeм "paзвoвop"? Этo ты тaк пoнaдeялcя чтo я pyccкoгo нe пoнимaю, или чтo?
>>29976893
>even that added armor package was penned all the way through.
that's because it's reactive armor you dip
it's meant to get destroyed
>>29981783
>A rather emotional no-name source versus the manufacturer?
Is that the best you can do? You can google the book yourself, the entire thing is available on the interwebs.
>>29981783
>That's absolutely not what the official source does.
It is the only way Klimov's claim can match the number of T-80's built.
Personally? I'd operate the shit out of one. You could paint it hot pink and have it covered in Bud Light and Viagra stickers like a frickin' stock car and I'd still drive it all over the damn place.
In actual practice upgrading old tanks is loads easier than buying all new designs for most of the world's nations. Even the likes of the T-34/85 and the T-55A can be made highly effective with new tech and are quite reasonable so long as you don't have to pitch them against an American invasion headed by a couple thousand M1a2's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqup8giz7Nw
>>29982031
>couple thousand M1a2
No more than 1500 M1A2 variants have ever been built let alone are currently fielded. The vast majority of Abrams are M1A1s or earlier.
>>29972827
Beacus tnak
>>29982145
It should be noted that, besides some ARNG units, the US Army actively uses a pure fleet of SEPv2's.
>>29982259
Damn, they actually look sexy when not painted for sand niggers.
>those little American flags
Cute.
>>29982290
>Damn, they actually look sexy when not painted for sand niggers.
Underage pls go. It's like you faggots don't remember the Cold War.
>>29982416
I'm 29 you nigger.
>muh old folks home
>>29976993
there's a part of me that hopes that this is what we plan to do if we ever need a fuck ton of tanks
>>29984544
We have like 1500 m1s just sitting around in storage, it's going to be a while before we need to hit the m60s.
>>29982494
>Look mom, I lied on the internet again
>>29984556
You are now aware that the US military has virtually no M60 tanks in depots left
They were either sold, scrapped or used as hard targets.
There is no such thing as a fleet of thousands of combat ready M60s waiting for the big mayhem
>>29981996
The number of T-80 built is clearly stated by them.
>>29981928
Is linking subjective emotional "talk" praising T-90 and bullshitting T-80 the best you can do?
>>29985463
Where are all these tanks then?
Who bought them?
>>29982031
>>29982259
Is a tank an NFA item?
>>29986422
Their cannons and machineguns are.
>>29986434
god damn government gotta be all up in ma business
>>29972827
Fuck you, that's why. The M60 rocked shit in Iraq. Killed tons of newer tanks.
If you want a good M60 sim check this game out
>>29986386
In the same place where the rest of stored Russian tanks are.
>>29986629
Your imagination? Because there are only 3500 there.
>>29986629
Russia is not claiming near the number you are, even if you take operational and mothballed.
>>29981762
looks like something from Robot Wars
>>29987081
Sorry, your claims don't mean shit.
>>29987092
They could just as well scrap them. Doesn't really matter.
>>29987179
Russia is claiming about 3000 in storage 1000 active and 1000 sold and no others made.
>>29976767
yup sound exactly the same.
>>29987190
>Wiki is claiming
Ftfy. You see anon. There's manufacturer. And then there's you.
>>29989441
IT'S NOT A TUMAH
>>29989452
>>29989441
Why is everything yids make so fucking ugly?
>>29989648
have you ever seen a merkava ?, stupid goy!
>>29989708
It looks like an oversized APC with tiny swollen dick sticking out of a cow dung.
>>29989648
>M60 Phoenix
>Jewish
It's a Jordanian upgrade you fucking retard
>>29976946
Actually they were going to buy a bunch of M1A1's a little while back. But a certain American Master Gunner talked to the commander of their Armor division and convinced him that buying a tank built for an offensive battle at twice the price of a tank that can shoot just as well. While you already have tons of ammo for a 105mm gun isn't worth while.
>>29982145
>M1A2 (Baseline): Production began in 1986 and entered service in 1992 [95] (77 built for the US and more than 600 M1s upgraded to M1A2, 315 for Saudi Arabia, 218 for Kuwait).
>less than 700 M1A2s for Murrica
Never knew that senpai.
THE BEST
>>29990388
Nah.
>>29990388
You having a giggle m8?
>>29989103
A manufacturer that did not build the tanks.
>>29990451
:^)
>>29990518
>Engine is not a part of a tank
Take our meds, anon.
>>29990592
It is not the hull an can be changed or upgraded especially when they are talking about 3 engines yes they installed 10000 engines in T80s the same 5000 ones multiple times both of the 1000 series engines and then the 1250 ones.
>>29990651
No, that is not what happened no matter how many times you will repeat it. The manufacturer clearly states that 10000 tanks were equipped with this engine.
>>29990793
Than I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
>>29976797
I wonder how many times the overhaul ratings increased for the new RD-33MK / OVT engines for the MiG-35?
>>29978002
Then you have a need, buy 500 of them.
>>29981762
It's hard to believe that there is a shitty Leo1 under all that swag.
>>29990927
RD-133 is just a technology demonstrator, there are not plans on its implementation or any further development AFAIK. RD-33MK service life is 4000 hours.
