How does giving a gun to someone work?
I have two (and a half) scenarios I'd like to be sure of before the ATF shows up at my house.
1.
>bought the lower online
>transferred through an FFL
>background check passed
>took parts home
>built AR, would like to gift to my mother.
What do?
2.
>Simply bought pistol
>battle buddy says "can I keep did?"
>decide sure, it's yours.
Can he simply keep it?
2.5.
>built every component of the gun in my garage besides the springs and hardware
>no back ground check or serial number
Is this legal as long as I don't sell it to anyone?
State is FL btw.
>>29970254
This is the perfect moment for the ATF to speak up, I know you're here somewhere.
>>29970254
I hope I don't derail your thead OP, I'm curious to hear the answers to your questions, and I have one of my own (I guess basically similar to your second question)
>Have girlfriend
>girlfriend gets spooky (if you know what I mean) activity near her house
>I let her borrow my gun for self home defense
>She is qualified for all reasons to buy a gun of her own as far as a 4473 is concerned, to my knowledge
>>29970254
Because you bought the gun for your own personal collection. And decided later (after deciding to buy the gun, building it, and after actually purchasing it) to give it away. It is perfectly legal to do so as long as you complete a bill of sale for both you and your brother
As long as you had no intention of buying the gun for the sole purpose of giving or selling it to someone else (a straw purchase) you're fine
Now it does look suspicious if the gun trades hands so quickly
But as long as they can't get evidence that you were intending to make a straw purchase and more importantly as long as your brother doesn't rob a gas station or something stupid like that, that would lead to the gun coming to the attention of authorities, you're legally fine.
>>29970868
>>29970254
Also forgot to add to your 2.5 question
Not sure about Florida but in Missouri you can legally make any part of a firearm in your garage including a lower AS LONG AS YOU DON'T SELL IT
you cannot sell a gun you made until you get it serialized
Don't mistake that for you can't sell a gun without a serial number period
A lot of really old guns weren't made with serial numbers to begin with but it's still legal (at least it is here) to sell them
>>29970254
There's no requirement for background checks on private transfers in FL. You can just give (or even sell) the guns so long as you aren't buying and selling for the purpose of making money. You ought, however, to get some sort of bill of sale so that if your buddy goes and does something retarded you don't get in shit for it.
As for not having the serial, yes that's legal if you built it yourself and keep it yourself.
>>29970807
That's perfectly legal too. But remember to check your own state laws.
To my knowledge the only thing that comes with ftf transfers is that you have to ask the person of they are a felon and you have to know for certain they are a resident of your state
But like I said earlier as long as the person your giving it to doesnt do anything stupid youre pretty much fine
I'm not 21 yet(19), is it fine to give money to my father to buy me a handgun?
Been wondering this since I turned 18
You can gift a firearm as long as your local laws say it's okay, and to your knowledge the person is not prohibited to own firearms for whatever reason.
>>29970952
If it's illegal for you to own a handgun under 21, then no, that's a fucking straw purchase you retard.
>>29970952
You literally described a textbook straw purchase
I don't really care but
Don't be so goddamn stupid son
>>29970982
>>29971012
It's not illegal to own a handgun at 18 in texas, only to purchase.
Can I be gifted said handgun legally?
>>29970982
It's illegal to purchase one on the federal level under 21, but if someone buys it and then gives it to me as a gift, does that constitute a straw purchase?
>>29970952
That would be straw purchase. Now, he can buy you a gun because you decided to help pay the bills.
>>29971034
Yes that's kinda what the law was made for
>son can't buy his own handfun but I can give him the family 1911
>>29970962
Have hour dad sell you one of his firearms he has owned for a while. That isn't a straw purchase.
Just don't get caught transporting it to the range or wherever.
And you can't buy ammo for it either, SK learn to reload
>>29971041
Only if the original intention of buying the fun was to give it to someone else
Jesus fuck kids its not that complicated
>>29970982
Different anon.
I thought it was only illegal to purchase a handgun under 21? Or does it vary between states?
>>29971041
No, gifts, especially between immediate family, are perfectly fine. And then you can be nice and decide to give your father a big fathers day gift if you want.
>>29971064
>>29971085
That's exactly what I thought. Thanks
>>29971079
You cannot buy a handgun from an FFL if you're under 21 period. Now most states allow you to buy through ftf transfers from non FFLs
OP here. Thanks for all the posts, just want to clarify a few things.
So say I bought 50 lowers/receivers (the part qualifying as a firearm) and Picked them up, and built each one to completion for my "own collection...
Then "later on" decided to gradually give them out to non-felonious friends & family , it would be perfectly fine? So long as I kept a log of signatures to account for each rifle?
Is it legal to accept $500 donations for Popsicle stickmen included in the box?
This is all theoretical by the way.
>>29971774
Alternatively, what all would I need to do to make legitimate profit for income and complete personal financial gain?
>>29971064
Not exactly accurate.
>If a firearm is purchased as a gift, the transaction is not a straw purchase, and the person buying the gift is considered the end user. The buyer is also considered the end user if he intends to sell the firearm, as long as the initial purchase is not made at the direction of or as part of an agreement with the second, ultimate buyer.
>Straw purchases in lawful sales made outside of federally regulated dealerships are not subject to such rules and are legal unless the gun is used in a crime with the prior knowledge of the straw purchaser
>>29970982
This is bullshit, the age restriction applies to PURCHASING the handgun only, not possessing it.
Family members gifting firearms to each other does not fall under the same guidelines as a straw purchase provided both people have no disqualifications for owning one.
>>29970952
I'm gonna shit on your parade and say no, absolutely not. You should never even suggest that, because that's a blatant straw purchase.
...buuuuut if your dad happened to get the exact gun you wanted to buy and you decide to take it off his hands for the right price, I don't think Mr.ATF will say anything. Just make sure dad doesn't buy it with the intention of selling it to you. It's only after the sale can he think about selling it, if you catch my drift. *wink wink nudge nudge*
>>29971774
>>29971804
Hmmm I'm a FL fag too, and decently versed in some gun laws, but as a precursor, I am NOT a lawyer, so check with one before doing this if you are actually planning, but I believe this is a grey area/test case waiting to happen in the Florida courts. As far as I understand it, if it comes from your own personal collection, feel free to sell them as you want. I think you can only do it once in a certain time frame, though I forget how long.
The exception is if you bought, built, and sold those weapons with the pure INTENT to sell them. The feds are all about intent. Did you intend to make a straw purchase? No, okay. Did you intend to bring your ccw into a school zone? No, okay. Did you intend to sell these weapons from the start? No, cool. It's called lack of scienter. If you play dumb, they don't care. But if they somehow link something incriminating, like say this entire thread, you're gonna have a tough time in court.
Sorry for the blog post, I just like this area of law, I hope I answered your question.
>>29974110
What is the issue with making ar's to sell on say armslist through an FFL dealer?
>>29974155
Through an FLL? None at all, most, if not all problems arise when doing it privately with sales.
>>29971774
yeah sure, enjoy your visit by the ATF
>>29974277
Following the same theoretical scenario, Would acquiring an FFL personally put me in the green?
Or would simply selling the gun online via sites that require the buyer have an FFL be just as good? Or does the whole "intent to sell" thing apply here as well?
My imaginary self would like to make money and avoid federal prison.
>>29970254
Home made guns only need serials if they are going to change possession or if they are NFA items.
Just stamp ANON-ANONSON#01 on your tube gun or something if you want to be sure.
>>29970868
>It is perfectly legal to do so as long as you complete a bill of sale for both you and your brother
You don't even really have to do that, but it's a good idea to do it.
>>29971774
If you really think that you can convince a jury that they really were for your own personal collection and that you had no intention of selling them at the time of purchase, then by all means go for it.
>>29975280
You need a Type 7 FFL to manufacture for sale whether or not you're selling them through another FFL. The only exception would be if the other FFL is a T7 and you're working for them (legit employee, not a contractor or some loose affiliation).
Whether or not you're an FFL, if you're selling anything online/through the mail, you have to send it to an FFL (essentially any type) near the buyer and then the buyer has to go to that FFL to fill out the 4473.
>>29973831
This anon is correct, do not listen to the others
>>29970901
So what if I decide to buy some lowers now and a few months later decide I'm not a fan and sell them for a profit?
>>29976385
Nothing, even what you're implying is legal as well. If I bought a mosin while they were still milsurp, and sold them when the stock runs out, what crime have you committed? Making a profit should never be illegal in America.
On an off topic I think it's sad that we need these threads. I really wish the 2nd amendment wasnt fucked with and they could just let us gun owners be gun owners and do what we please with our property. It's bullshit that I need another entity involved.
>>29976385
If you legitimately had no intent of selling them when you first bought them, then you're fine. If you're buying in bulk, you may have a hard time convincing anyone that you weren't planning to sell.
>>29973831
>>29975907
x2 for this
>>29971774
The atf would like a word with you.
This is the problem of how the statues and rulings are worded. There is no set amount thaylt you could dispose of that would not be considered "business activity" . also the donation shit wont fly.
>>29971804
Get an ffl
>>29975280
If your milling 80% lowers and building guns to sell you need a manufacturing ffl.
If your buying lowers already serialized and building uppers fir them and selling the completed gun you just need a regular ffl.
