Is CIA SAD truly the top tier black ops? CIA SAD thread I guess.
>>29879884
Are they any good at all, or just college bros playing operator (as they were in Vietnam, from what I've read)?
Arent real BLACKOPS are military SOF operators with few intelligence field operatives as attached specialists, or Hicom/Mission control being mix from military intelligence/homeland intelligence to provide Black OP like objectives or know how to field operators?
Sorry about imperfect english, i'm trying to write as best I can.
>>29879884
SAD mainly recruits FROM Seals, SF, and Delta. So maybe. I don't think you can really compare the roles though. Each group is specific to their own role.
>>29879884
any time i think about SAD i think Liev Schreiber in Sum of All Fears. not a group or a team, more like 1 or 2 guys doing wet work for the government. those DOO or POO guys or whatever they're called now seem to be "advisors" to SOF/CAG teams
>>29880408
There are anywhere from several dozen to a few hundred SAD. Somewhere I have a picture of several on horse back in early Iraq invasion dressed like locals.
>>29879884
The best is the one you've never heard of.
>>29879884
I took a class with Mike Pannone in '14 and during our 2nd day lunch break he was kind enough to answer a bunch of our typical civilian questions about special operations.
You know, the typical cringy stuff you imagine asking:
>Is it true you have to assassinate someone during training?
>Do they train you to turn off emotions?
etc.
The CIA came up and all he said was "that's where guys go when they're too old to play in jsoc anymore or when you have a hard on for paperwork."
He didn't seem impressed by the CIA at all. Like not even a little bit.
That's not the first time I've heard that either. Interviews with Vickers, Haney, Comstock, Howe, Mark Bowden's books, etc. have all mentioned CIA guys and their teams and all of them are pretty negative in regards to CIA guys and their teams being upper middle class cry babies with college degrees and an unwarranted attitude of thinking they're hard asses who cause more problems and accidents than they ever solve, or being ex-mil guys who are a little older and just not quite ready to quit the game.
>>29879884
No not really. They do more desk work than anything kinetic.
>>29881726
Well educated people communicate differently then jocks. Not surprising that there would be tension between them.
>>29880408
>believes in hollywood depictions
the real cia sad operative walks around with a suitcase full of money because that's the only thing the CIA has to offer to anybody
>>29882468
There are plenty of JSOC types with degrees. And the vast majority of Ivy League dudebros who go into the CIA are far from erudite gentlemen.
>>29883219
pro-tip: a masters in "international relations" is not a real degree
>>29883237
Protip: degrees like "international relations" are a bit more relevant in JSOC than some STEM shit. Neat, you have a degree in Electrical Engineering? That'll really fucking help when you're targeting finance cells in other countries that are paying for ammo and supplies in syria.
>>29883328
Yeah, but at least if you can get an electrical engineering degree you would be smart enough to "target financial cells". All you have to do is not be a dipshit and are willing to read some shit.
Nope. There was some shadow group (name was never released, if it even had one) during the cold war that was made up of genetically engineered clones. The US no longer utilizes "supersoldiers" but Israel does and Russia has tried but reached the same conclusion as the US, they aren't worth the cost to train from child.
You're not going to find anything about them on the surface web, it remains under the rug because what they did to those kids would be considered highly unethical.
>>29882878
thanks for setting us straight, sir. i sure am glad we have people that know what they're talking about, and wouldn't lie or make stuff up, to correct us when us common-folk get it wrong
>>29880408
Any time I think about CIA SAD I think of a big guy.
>>29883416
try reading a book sometime, it's not like the CIA's long history of failure is a secret.
>>29883422
maybe that's the case for you
>>29879884
Thats how they "drag you in". These operations are not popular in military terms.
>>29883328
it might be relevant, if the curriculum taught in these "international relations" degrees was more than cosmetic fluff to perpetuate a fantasy of an educated military. because it is literally general studies.
>That'll really fucking help when you're targeting finance cells in other countries
that is what analysts with degrees of finance (and not international relations) do.
>>29883687
>every fucking weirdo neighbor I've ever had: the picture
>>29883369
Little known fact was that they all black kids to, and they realized they fucked up because black people stick out on every continent but Africa.
Everybody knows about them so can't be that good. Impossible to tell really.
Brits and french maintain the same capacity but you hear almost nothing about it.
>>29883687
banepost con 1982.
>>29884034
was it part of their plan?
Why are they sad?
>>29879884
>CIA
>Good at anything aside from HUMINT and occasional SIGINT collection
And they even are spotty on that.
Read Bowden's book "Killing Pablo" to see how the CIA basically screwed up every lead they had and provided bad information on every faucet of Escobar's operation until centra spike showed up and saved the whole operation.
Or Haney's book where the CIA basically got their own intelligence officer killed by friendly fire and later wanted to blow up a plane instead of having Delta secure it from a single old man.
Or brush up on pic related's entirely laughable and comical career and blunders.
Or the insane amount of leaks and holes during the cold war that persist even today.
Seriously, the CIA fucking blows. The only cool thing they can brag about is "the stuff you haven't heard about" because even they aren't aware of it.
>>29884115
Ok CIA does hella good mid to long term Intel analysis, moderately good HUMINT and recently has done an ok job I killing hajis if you happen to subscribe to the "kill them all" school of thought. On the whole they aren't shit at what they do but yeah they're not the CIA of the 1960s any more and thank god for that.
>>29884115
>There's one old guy guarding this plane
>Bomb the fucker
I'm okay with this.
>>29884115
don't forget the hostages in vietnam. that part really made my blood boil
>>29879884
what's the DIA or The Agency's version of this? or do they borrow SOG people? does NSA have a tactical unit?
>>29884115
They were kinda shit pre-9/11, but since then they upd their game. And most of the Pablo escobar stuff was second rate work since most of the CIA activities at the time were either supplying Afghan rebels, importing cocaine and trading sidewinders to Iran and paying contras.
>>29885575
>upped their game
>iraq wmd considered the greatest CIA debacle since vietnam
Do we even need to argue?
>Established in 1989, the Special Operations Group (UNSOG) of the United Nations was a branch designated to conduct various specialist tactical and covert operations on behalf of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC). UNSOG field roles are comparable to those of most countries' military special forces. UNSOG is accountable to UNSC and although occasionally works alongside is independent of the United Nations Department of Safety and Security (UNDSS).[1]
>>29885876
>Saddam
>known for gassing his own people
>"OH NO HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY WMDS"
>>29886372
Usa gave him those kurd killing chemicals
>>29886372
but... turns out he really didn't...
>>29882878
Right. The only thing the CIA does is pay people.
(That's sarcasm in case you couldn't tell).
>>29885575
>upd their game
With such hits as:
>unable to locate WMDs
>unable to locate proof of WMDs
>inability to install any moderately stable govt. in two different wars
>inability to pacify resistance groups they armed and organized
>taking a decade to find bin laden
>publishing a largely bullshit story crediting themselves with finding bin laden
Kennedy was right to distrust the CIA back in the day and exhaust alternative methods to bypass them. They're just as incompetent today as they were back then, and controlled by internal politics and agendas.
>>29886429
in legacy of ashes, the author has extensive documentation on the utter ignorance of CIA officers with regards to the cultures and peoples of their assigned countries, which reduces them to little more than paymasters buying whatever information is being offered, be it good, bad, or deliberate misdirection.
the book was written in 2007 so it briefly mentions their attempt at a crash course on arab culture, with the expected results.
your sarcasm is just ignorance.
army isa already shit on the cia in colombia. cia is the top tier degenerate drug smuggling/sexual slavery organization.
>>29886322
>UN
>Doing anything meaningful after Korea, ever.
UNSOG is where European armies send their sof guys after they manage to alienate themselves from everybody on their team.
>>29886429
read any cia memoir. that's pretty much what they do. if they're not handing out cash, they're giving gifts that are illegal in the other person's country ie porn or whatever.
>>29886486
So much this.
Name one thing since Guatemala that the CIA HASN'T fucked up.
>>29883369
Les enfants terribles!
I'm sure your metric determines the whole kit and caboodle here, along with the fact that there will be so many little cells or groups unknown to anyone here.
I think one super secret(ive, if you prefer) group is called P2OG. Rumsfeld/Bush kind of shit using 9/11 to operate farther and farther outside of oversight or laws. I would imagine a group like them would be way up on the scale of sheer nastiness. Ultimately, whatever pack of 'em out there you could dig up is just a bunch of geared up murderers for paychecks. Guys destined to end life with a cracked face and psyche. Help keep the government on top, kill some people reflexively and hate yourself later that day.
It's interesting, but mainly irrelevant. Body counts, gear, unstated missions to curtail freedom, in sum.
CIA is good at bribing people, cultivating high ranking people in foreign governments who give them heavily biased information, manipulating the media and mass psychological operations. And they're good at analyzing information that's brought in by the whole Intelligence Community
Less good at the leet operator stuff
>>29883328
Lol. Any fuckin Jr enlisted with even the basic targeting training can do "follow-the-money". Getting a degree for that shit is a waste.
>>29886486
My problem with your statement was your claim that they don't ever perform clandestine operations that necessitate the use of force. That's not true. Their incompetence is another matter entirely.
And Legacy of Ashes is hardly an unbiased source of information BTW.
>>29886430
>unable to locate proof of WMDs
I guess all of those guys claiming VA disability for coming in contact with chemical weapons components prove that no WMD's were found.
Oh wait, chemical weapons are WMD's and Saddam sent a bunch to Syria. These are all proven facts you cuck fuck.
>>29886895
I'd be willing to say ISA is the best because hardly anyone knows about them.
Of course they are top tier, do you not know about Peter Quinn?
>>29888108
Nah it was the depleted uranium and intentional exposure for scientific gain.
>>29888108
or they were ours
>>29888108
autism.jpg
No shit they had chemical weapons. Everyone fucking did. They even used that shit and it was well known. But they dared not use it against even an invading american army, so why even fucking bother to complain about WMD's like they were dangerous to the USA?
>>29885451
>DIA
Defense Clandestine Service is their spies, but idk if they run around with guns
>The Agency
The agency is the CIA, no?
>or do they borrow SOG people?
Everybody borrows people. It's called sheepdipping
>does NSA have a tactical unit?
They have a directorate that does black-bag ops, plants upgraded hardware, and intercepts en-route hardware to install hardware upgrades. No gunfighting, mostly just nerds playing with computers.
>>29887184
>P2OG
This is actually what Sicario was about. Interesting to read up on if you find decent info about them. They do about the only cool things any of us would imagine the CIA doing. Everything else is just really really boring disappointing assery
>>29888220
DIA bros absolutely run around with guns. Everyone is all about SAD and tier 1 operator's, god damn DIA is where it's at.
>>29886895
Drug smuggling and sexual slavery meaning deportation of illegal aliens and price fixing certain wanted commodities as elaphant ivory due to some recent events
>>29888108
That claim is from their time in wmd school in order to know what the weapons were like each person had to drink a serving of purple Kool aid to put salt on the wound the drink was served to the blacks first by a black instructor preferly one with a thick haitian accent and shriveled feature results of old age.
>>29888220
>>29888412
DIA is quite small, no?
>the agency
I'm sorry, it was late. i was referring to ISA.
>NSA tactical
so this is where SOT-B goes when they retire
>>29887184
this is very interesting. I'm going to try to find out more about them
>>29888108
They had a bunch of outdated shells with mustard gas in shitty rusted containers. They couldn't have deployed that shit if they tried.
>>29888629
What?
>Going CIA to do military operations
Do you faggots even know what the CIA actually does?
>>29880408
If you want a better perspective, read the god damn book.
>>29890609
i would read that book
>>29886400
Different anon, but I was under the impression that the Chems came from either France or West Germany (or maybe both).
>>29888108
By the time we rolled in 2003 there was very little usable shit left from all the stockpiled they used to have from the Iran-Iraq war shitfest.
>>29884075
of course
>>29890568
look for big guys?
>>29886405
You are one dense nigger
>What is google
>>29885575
>were either supplying Afghan rebels, importing cocaine and trading sidewinders to Iran and paying contras.
and now they import opium and trade ATGMs to moderate jihadis in Syria instead
>>29883328
Actually electrical engineering has (depending on the interest of the students and the additional master he chooses) alot of practicall apliance in the field of surveilance.
Obviously I am not familiar enough with "super secret black ops work" to make an exact assesement but I can see how it would come handy.
>>29879884
if they do their job right, you dont know whether they do their job right. if they do their job wrong, all you know about them is doing their job wrong. literally a non-question.
same goes for reviews of all nature. people are more inclined to provide negative reviews than positive ones
>>29891250
People don't easily think in negatives.
>>29887874
>And Legacy of Ashes is hardly an unbiased source of information BTW.
translation: the extensive documentation that doesn't vibe with my preconceived notions so it is acutally biased
>>29891250
>if they do their job wrong, it gets covered up for 30 years
>hey guys let's have a thread about something none of us know anything about filled with conjecture, hyperbole and outright fiction
>>29895197
I have a question. Why is it that light has MOMENTUM if light waves don't even have mass? Discuss.
>>29895197
>none of us know anything about
>i am an illiterate nigger who cannot read books written about this topic
>>29895262
wave-particle duality
a photon's relativistic momentum is directly related to it's wavelength, as given in De Broglie's relation
the trick is understanding the special relativity definition of momentum being derived from mass-energy, rather than mass as in Newtonian physics
this was on my final this morning, I'm pretty drunk but still remember most of this
>>29895368
I enjoyed this a lot as a casual unprofessional science fan:
https://youtu.be/danYFxGnFxQ
It's meme science black man but when he talks about Isaacs age it blew my fucking mind.
>>29895515
Thx anon I feel like a complete piece of shit now
>>29885876
Actually, that was the DIA.
The CIA recommended against trusting curveball as a source.
>>29895618
>a handful of analysts at the CIA doubted curveball and their warnings were ignored
>the people who actually run the CIA put their stamp of approval on curveball's BS and forwarded it to the bush admin
there, ftfy
>>29895667
Before I die I'm really looking forward to 50 years from now when all the Bush stuff gets declassified and we get to see all the CIA/Cheney/Rove dirt
>>29895308
>I read some books on the topic
>therefore I am qualified to parrot bullshit that I don't even know is true like I'm some kind of subject matter expert
And this is why this board is shit
>>29895308
you are a stupid nigger ill give you that
>>29895768
Implying all the really bad shit hasn't been destroyed, never to be known by the public
>>29895798
>quoting researched, cross-referenced books is bullshit
>defending the CIA's honor with the mystique argument isn't bullshit
you are shit
>>29896038
>muh sources
Yeah, researched and cross referenced by who? Authors who are Tom Clancy wannabes don't count. I'm not defending shit; if you want to read books on communities that maintain NDAs from people for years after they leave and take everything presented as fact, be my guest. I'll just be here laughing at you dipshits who circlejerk about how you're totally experts on communities you'll never be a part of.
>>29896142
in the case of legacy of ashes, it would be researched by the author from the cia's own archives, as well as interviews with current and former cia employees
that one book was so damaging to the cia's carefully cultured mystique that they hired a PR firm to deal with the fallout. not like they could actually refute any of the facts in the book. but it looks like the mystique argument still works for some retards (like you).
>>29896479
its hilarious your interest in the CIA, because you seem like the most inept individual possible for that field
>>29884115
>later wanted to blow up a plane instead of having Delta secure it from a single old man.
Or perhaps they were wondering why someone would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane.
>>29896479
>I'm totally enlightened by these books that have the legit inside scoop that can't be proven; you plebs don't know shit
Listen dude, I can admit I don't know a goddamn thing about certain topics, and this shit is no different. I don't care about how the CIA is portrayed, because I have no relevant experience on it to begin with. I just come here to laugh at dudes like you who create codkiddie-tier threads and then get into heated debates over topics no one has a clue about.
>>29882468
I guarantee you're less intelligent than any Delta guy
>>29895515
Holy shit
I wish he lived later and designed kewl funs
>>29896676
>and this shit is no different
yes, that much is obvious.
it is ok to admit that you are still in high school and don't understand how academics and authors using sources (i.e. the most basic concept of scholarship).
>>29895798
4chang is full of teenagers. what do you expect?
>>29895798
>I am enthralled by violence and mystery and that is what I think the CIA does
>therefore I am qualified to defend the CIA's honor on an mongolian yak-milking board
>>29897719
fucking kys. how do you think clandestine ops work. there is no attribution outside of physical evidence, and even that is falsifiable as binding
>>29897958
>books researched using the CIA's own internal reports on the operations
the thing with bureaucracies is they are really good at documenting everything so your "only the double secret operators know" argument doesn't work at all
>>29898007
again, you show such an ineptitude for vexation and the people that profess in it that i think its hilarious that you seem so interested in the CIA. its like the housewife being interested in high paced thrillers
>>29888412
Met a DIA guy once. No idea what his role was.
>>29898023
>vexation
>profess in it
wat. is that even english?
>CIA
>high paced thrillers
topkek. see: the mystique argument. are you sure you are not the housewife? because you sure enjoy indulging in fishwives' tales.
>>29897782
>get called out on not knowing shit
>STOP DEFENDING THE CIA GUYS, I REALLY KNOW WHAT ACTUALLY GOES ON BECAUSE I READ BOOKS AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME THEN YOU'RE JUST WHITE KNIGHTING
>>29898119
>does not read any books
>says other people don't know shit
The anti-gunners are right about one thing, anti-intellectual retards dominate the gun community.
>>29898136
*tips*
>>29880373
Intelligence field operatives? Explain, this interests me. Ideally I'd like to be HUMINT but if I can find a pathway to even try out to do that I'd get on board real fast.
>>29898150
Go watch the Bourne movies some more.
>>29898181
Funny. I'm not looking to be some James Bond type character, but I am interested in seeing the behind the scenes of the world's stage. Doesn't even have to be action packed, HALO jumping, gun fighting shit; I just want information.
>>29898220
>I just want information.
well, youve just about summed it up. you want intelligence people? go where the intelligence is
>>29898233
Go join the SVR, they're actually good at gathering information.
They're Russian, I'm American. I'm going to work for an American agency.
Then you are out of luck.
>>29898270
Surely there's some part of the U.S. govt or its semi official subsets that's competent.
>>29898295
>>29898295
The phrase "stumbling ass first into success" comes to mind.
>>29898237
>SVR
>good
>>29898310
relative to the CIA? you bet it is.
>>29898301
>>29898313
Okay okay I get it the CIA has a reputation for being incompetent, but there's a dozen and a half other agencies within the U.S. The NSA for example, surely they have a decent rep? I imagine they weren't nicknamed No Such Agency back in the 60's for nothing.
>>29898332
well if you consider sitting on petabytes of data to be gathering information, then go for it
>>29895368
Fucking nerds.
>>29898354
Bah. Guess I'll take it as it comes. Join Marines for intelligence, put in 4 years, and go from there whether that stays with the govt or moves onto civilian life.
>>29879884
Surely they're the black ops. What you think this all those Mason's numbers shebang was about?
>>29895308
there's so much more to it than the 3 internet articles you skimmed over on wikipedia.
>>29898487
Indeed, you should start with the 848 page book that has already been cited.
>>29895515
>meme nigger scientist
>more concerned with politics and social justice than science
>constantly talks about the "multiverse"
Cannot fucking stand that fucking man. Every time he talks about the multiverse I die a bit inside.
>>29898150
Yes there are intel elements in group: SOT-A.
A is usually 35N, 35M, and 35P.
I had a couple buddies who were in SOT-A.
>I'm a 35M ask me anything.
>>29883237
As a person doing his masters in International relations
>fuck you.
>you are 100% correct.
> its a piece of paper that can make it easier to get a job, much like most degrees with out the word "studies" in it.
All I know is I have 2 friends that work for the CIA.
They are graphic designers. The CIA comes to the college I graduated from every year to recruit artists.
>>29898550
Do they make special classified anime
>>29898092
in all probability an analyst, just like 97% of the people working for the CIA. Unless he had a more kinetic look about him.
>>29889171
>so this is where SOT-B goes when they retire
I don't have any knowledge of these career paths, but it's logical to assume anyone in LEO, MIL, or INT with a technical expertise could do it. Probably a lot of guys from inside the NSA too.
>>29898354
They also have contractors with combat experience, see the NSA Scorpion program. Pretty much the NSA's version of the CIA's GRS
>>29898515
Sure. How'd you get there and what do you do?
>>29900076
Im not in SOT-A. My buddies got there by coordinating with our branch managers and dropping airborne packets.
I went to basic at fort sill, and ait at Huachuca, then i went to dli.
Im currently at INSCOM doing strategic debriefing.
>>29900076
>>29900342
I also worked admin at DLI for 2 years. So i can answer any questions about that as well.
>>29900342
This might be outside your field of knowledge then, but if I want to do intelligence work then what's the best avenue (work towards SIGINT, HUMINT, etc...) with the ideal branch (I'd like to at least start as a Marine but if I did and there's a better branch would it be possible to transfer over into that branch's field?), to see and do the most i.e. the least amount of office desk work?
From that, what can I do to make myself more competitive and if these groups are so under the radar then how do I even apply for them or short of that make my existence clearly known to people who will recruit for them?
>>29883369
Boss?
>>29900409
It really depends on you. in HUMINT it really helps to be a people person, or in my case so autistic that you can easily fake it. In SIGINT you can just be autistic.
Both 35N and 35M lead to phenomenal possibilities (ill touch on that).
I may sound bias but i believe the Army is the ideal branch. The Army is much more diverse than the other services ive worked with. And you might be able to cross branches but like i said the Army is diverse enough to where you wont need to. Marines have it rough man. And no you wont be able to get out of "most of the desk work" as a 35M i spend more time writing reports than doing meetings. Its like that across all 35 series.
Ok so recruitment (from what i understand) is tiered. We have GREATSKILLS and 1st Group routinely do briefings where they try to pick up average joes. Other agencies in turn pick up recruits from those organizations. And so on and so on.
>>29900593
Hm, I can probably fake it but I imagine I'll have a better idea before I'm in a position to actually make that decision. Anything besides the usual "underfunded, make do" that makes it rough for the Marines? Maybe I'm naive but my buddies became Marines and I like the idea of getting it worse so I'm better prepared for whatever else comes next. Plus if I decide to only go in for 4 years and then either work some civilian job or for some agency.
Alright, I guess I'll just have to live with the paperwork then. As long as I'm at least learning something it might even be fun.
What's the pipeline like? Should I expect to have special operations level of attrition? Semi related to that, is it possible to volunteer for SERE? Even if I don't end up doing this crazy shit I'd still like to go through and see what I'm capable of.
shit just makes me think about Strike Back and all that bollocks.
>>29900342
>>29899900
in AIT for SIGINT, who the hell do I talk to about Airborne/ Support roles? really don't want to ride a desk for the next 4 years.
>>29879884
If I'm not mistaken. There's two parts of SAD.
A pencil pusher division and the para military
>>29900860
Your AIT Platoon Sergeant should hook you up if you PT good and display maturity. Also dont just rely on them, try to seek out when SF do their briefings (usually quarterly). So desk riding is a game of dice, usually you either go FORSCOM or INSCOM. The most fun duties usually dont do well on a resume (FORSCOM). The most boring ones often look great on a resume (INSCOM). (In regular Army at least)
>>29901338
Can you quantify "PT good" with a number? Such as consistent 300 pfts for example.
>>29900698
Sorry i was unclear, whats rough for the marines is that (at least in the case of those i spoke to) they dont have alot of the same career progression opportunities the Army has.
If you were going infantry id say go Marine without a doubt, but you are concerned about going into high level ops, the better opportunities are in the Army.
The pipeline in what? 36M, 35N or 35P? DLI? Im not going to explain them all at once lol. Tell me which one youre most interested in and we can go from there.
You can volunteer for anything, doesnt mean youll get it. Ive volunteered for 2 deployments and i havent been sent.
Most things work by the needs of the Army, not your needs and wants. Youll need to be accepted into group in order to have a real shot at SERE.
>>29901359
Minimum of 90 in each event would be "good". But dont use the pt score as the only measurement, there are guys who have a pt score 30 points higher than mine but cant ruck or lift nearly as long or as far as me or as much as myself.
>>29901338
thank you. yes, I've heard that tac is more fun, but strat looks better on a resume. resume be damned, tactical is where I want to be. thank you for the help
>>29901424
No problem, and yeah i agree. I wish i could give you my email or something but i dont trust some people on this mongolian paper mache image board
>>29901471
yeah, I wouldn't either lol. maybe we'll run into one another someday.
>brb, buying /k/ patch to secretly flash at colleagues
>>29901374
Makes sense. From what you've seen/heard is there any benefit to joining Marines first/would it hurt a potential career? If necessary I can shift my goals, but I've wanted to be a Marine since 6th grade and now I'm wrapping up college so it's pretty embedded in me.
Probably 35M, but which would likely give me the least desk time?
That figures though yeah, just one more motivation to actually get in.
Also, how political/politically correct are these fields becoming? That's one thing that's kept me with the Marines is that, from what I understand, they've been much more rigid in maintaining what they believe is combat effective whereas as I understand it the Army has been much more willing to just go with whatever society thinks "feels good", like women in infantry roles for example.
>>29881616
considering they are CIA you are right about that.
>>29901516
>tfw everyone knows i go on 4chan
>spend time on /k/ and /o/
>spend most of my time on /pol/
If you ever go to Ft Shafter just look for a guy with the last name that starts with "V"
>>29901610
lol you guys are so cute
>THA CIA HAS THE BEST GAIS
The CIA just wants to drop bombs on people from plastic RC airplanes
>>29901712
man, we're even on the same boards. right on man, I'll keep a look out
>>29901570
You would have to relearn a whole different branch culture and you would reset time in service and time in grade which woul hold up your promotion.
>desk time
In a deployed enviornment you never know. In a state side enviornment you have a higher chance of actually working in a strategic unit as a 35M.
Every unit is dofferent but mine is fine as afar as political correctness, i browse pol and often spew shit from there at work and im fine.
>>29901610
Actually for a group like the CIA they hire primarily out of colleges.
Kid that ends up carrying a gun when he went for a different degree means he couldn't find employment in his field.
If they have fighters they came from another branch that made headlines.
>>29901738
Dammit. Guess I'd better look into this now. Any difference in job opportunity between officer and enlisted? My mindset has been geared towards Marines where officers have less say in where they get to work than enlisted which led me to prefer enlisting versus OSO, but if I actually do consider Army then I probably have to reevaluate that too.
How would you have a higher chance of working in a strategic environment if stateside though? I figure the actual operations that a strategic unit would be involved in would be somewhere else (?).
That sounds nice. /pol/ is my regular board but I wander over here occasionally, my major is pretty liberal and it can be a strain putting up with that shit but I enjoy the work itself so I keep at it.
>>29883422
>SAD CIA
>>29901823
>Any difference in job opportunity between officer and enlisted?
How I see it as is.
Officers are more like management positions. Enlisted do that too after a certain point but officer is like middle management and up. You're in charge of the door kickers telling them what doors to kick and how to get them there and all the shit in between.
Enlisted you got a job but once you get up there enough you're more of a manager since you can delegate your tasks downward but you still got a lot of tasks to do and you'll probably just want to do it all yourself.
I could be wrong though.
>>29901971
So...if I understand you correctly it's that officers start off with a decent amount of responsibility and not as much actual personal involvement in operations, but get decent benefits for it. On thee flip side even though enlisted do get to spend x number of years being the go-to guy, that trades off where they'll eventually hit a point where they have the responsibility of an officer but you still have one foot in enlisted so it becomes the worst of both worlds?
>>29902041
Okay officer responsibility is the be all end all of it,
It's not a decent amount of responsibility it's ALL responsibility. Personal involvement could just slow down people that know what they are doing. Either way even if shit rolls down hill you're responsible and if you get covered in shit all you can do is make other people crawl around in it with you.
Enlisted being the go-to guy means knowing what you're doing, and trying to get it done with people that don't always know. It's up to you to get it done in a certain time frame and it might benefit to spend like an hour showing one dude how to do something and working on another task while they do that, but it might be too complicated and they need specialized training to competently handle some things because you got other stuff to complete.
Leaders are always fucked if their followers don't want to follow, good leader can make a bad team work to some extent.
I wouldn't say enlisted is worse of both worlds, but there is a point where you go from doing tasks to setting others to do tasks and you always have something to do yourself so yeah it's kind of like being an officer as far as I understand it.
>>29902188
Interesting stuff, thanks. Makes me wish I'd taken the time before to stop and seriously consider more than one avenue, but it looks like I'm so far down the hole that enlisting is the only viable option left for me and then take some officer program later on if I so choose.
>>29886486
> legacy of ashes
You might as well go to a sherman thread and post "death traps" as a source.
>>29902251
Well if you want to be an officer you'd be telling enlisted what to do. So it's not really a bad idea to start out as an enlisted man for a better understanding of things. Can you imagine trying to tell everyone to do stuff if you don't know personally what it is like to get it done?
I'm just a private but I really like that because there is a lot of military culture and stuff to learn outside your job and it's almost expected for a private to fuck up and not get too much shit over it, you fuck up you naturally expect to get some shit but when everyone expects a private to fuck up here or there it doesn't seem as bad as being in a more pivotal role where this fucks a lot of people over and makes work take a lot longer and harder for everyone.
The ceiling for advancement can depend on how long you spend at the bottom but if you start at the bottom you can still move up. Best way to learn is start doing. If you want to do it starting is better than waiting.
>>29883369
Dr. Halsey?
>>29902345
Out of curiosity I went to an Army recruiter to see if I could find more info. They told me whatever I did for human intelligence would be boots on the ground whether I was stationed in Alaska, Georgia, or Afghanistan; that as long as I passed the tests then they could guarantee me 35M, and from there I could stay in 35M in anything from a regular BCT to other things like 1st Group or Ranger School if I so chose and passed their tests.
She said in that that way it would be better than the Marines which is boxed into a narrow little field who also can't necessarily transfer into the Army.
Any thoughts on that? I've also been instilled with the belief to take what recruiters say with a grain of salt.
>>29903590
bullshit, almost all of it
>ask her how many 35M contracts are available right now
>ask when was the last recruit she signed as 35M
>ask her to call around other recruiters or ROC and ask previous question
>>29903590
Former 97E (HUMINT Collector) here, she's lying her ass off. Firstly, unless she's intel she literally has no idea how HUMINT assignments work, let alone of you're "boots on the ground" that is a bold faced line of bullshit.
Firstly there are like 10 contracts a fucking year for that MOS, and secondly you won't be getting attached out to anyone interesting for at least two years, and no one under the rank of E-5 handles anything remotely interesting in that field. You'll sit as a desk jockey waiting for an attach to deploy that will never come because lol peacetime for your whole enlistment.
>>29903751
>>29903817
If she's lying her ass off then I don't even think I need to waste time going back to call her out on her bullshit, I'll just move on.
Is it better to try and get in for intelligence through Marines or Army? I have on Marine recruiter who's patiently waiting for me to come back in a few months, but if Army then I'll have to look around a bit. I still have plenty of time to figure this out before I graduate so I'm in no rush, but I'd like to figure out as much as I can as fast as I can so I'm not scrambling when the time comes.
>>29903885
you have a much better chance with army than any other branch, but it's not a good chance for any of them.
>>29903917
Will you elaborate on why it's not a good chance for any of them? And if Army then what are some tips I can have so I know I'm signing in on the right path?
>>29903590
>Any thoughts on that? I've also been instilled with the belief to take what recruiters say with a grain of salt.
I see a lot of marines transfer to the Army but that was likely they hit up a recruiter station on their own time after one of their contracts was up.
Want ranger school and other high speed stuff? Get it in your contract, otherwise you're going to have to figure out how to drop a packet for it, if he didn't garuntee it you figure out how the paper work gets done, who to give it to, and then hope they decide budget is there to send you if it's really an asset to have you do that type of training.
>>29903976
Honestly what are my chances of becoming a Ranger? Sure I'd love to go in with them since I figure they (and moreso 1st Group) are the guys who will give me the best chance at learning some really crazy shit firsthand, but I'm not familiar with the process though I understand that the attrition rate is brutal.
>>29900032
>NSA Scorpion
Sam goddamned Fisher
>>29904218
I thought Scorpion program was for exSOF contractors guarding the NSA nerds
>>29904323
Yup.
Nerds who have huge egos and lots of money while in a hostile country.
Hence why shit happens.
Hell the CIA GRS was supposed to be just a security detail to keep the ivy league rookie spies from getting kidnaped and raped, and they got fucking caught in the shit and got hammered by jihadis and fought like crazy until help arrived.
>>29904356
You'd think there'd be a few tactical and fit intel guys out there. probably not enough for an NSA version of SAD/SOG but still..
Oh man, I love those guys!
>>29898414
>Surely they're the black ops. What you think this all those Mason's numbers shebang was about?
This desu. Loved the conspiracy angle to that game.
>>29904074
I really got no clue I'm just a POG.
Met a few guys that were slotted to go to school but didn't keep in contact with them how it turned out.
From what I remember hearing about it people usually fail out in the first phase iirc. Don't take that for gospel.
The physical requirements are pretty high the last part of it is a really timed ruck march in full battle rattle. Physical requirements sound reasonable until you realize that's just on top of the other stuff so don't judge where you're at by being able to do it when you're well rested consider it's going to be after you had a few long hard days. It's a team thing so also consider if your buddy is struggling it's probably going to mess with your state of mind a bit. If you're going directly after BCT/OSUT/AIT you might be a little scuffed up medically going in.
Land nav, I'd expect a lot of that honestly I think the hardest parts is 1. Getting your pace count 2. Finding the first marker, as long as people cooperate it should be too easy if you get those two down.
Physical stuff aside if you can work in a group you should be fine.
>>29905881
Fair enough. Any idea what pathway provides the best long term career opportunities either inside or outside the military i.e. is HUMINT or SIGINT more marketable for PMC's or agencies like the NSA who would pay handsomely if I did a good enough job?
>>29906409
clearancejobs.com
>>29906428
Shit man that's a great site, I've always wanted to work for UPS.
>>29906491
>UPS
If I didn't know better, it sounds like a codename for some tier 0 level agency paramilitary unit called the Ultimate Paramilitary Service or something.
>>29906597
For all you know it is and I'm actually here to gather info on who knows what and possibly disappear anyone who says anything disagreeable. Because physical wounds heal.
>>29895197
welcome to the internet
now fuck off back to a cave
>>29906597
>>29906491
you guys sure you're in intelligence?
>>29907093
Do you think I think UPS is a government agency? It's clearly a private contracting one that works in conjunction with government personnel on domestic operations.
>>29907208
>not wanting to work for the most elite government agency on the planet
>united states postal service
>>29907208
They should be. Imagine how many terrorist cells they can bust by delivering fake mail.
>>29902271
so do you have an actual complaint about the book and its backing research or are you dismissing it because you don't like the title?
>>29907242
My guys can take you out on Easter Sunday while you're still in your church clothes.
>>29907266
Truly they are the masters of disguise.
>>29906409
In all honesty if you sign up for the Army don't think you'll just have one job or that you'll be doing the ones you're trained for. If you want to stay in for 20+ it's entirely possible you could get reclassified or MOSQ in a totally different job.
I don't know what's marketable for PMC's or NSA. The former sounds like a gimmik to me it's probably more about who you know.
The latter probably wants college kids with a tech or LEO degree. Probably a tech degree, how do you think intelligence is collected these days you don't just observe from a distance or disguise yourself and try to fit in with a funny accent and no knowledge of local customs.
>>29907706
And the Marines? How can they reclassify you anyway? I thought that once you had your MOS then it was yours and while you may get stuck with random odd jobs, ultimately you'd still be that MOS. But now that I think about it my Marine recruiter told me how he was SIGINT in the mid 00's but after about a month they transferred him to another 02 field because there was such a low frequency for SIGINT work in Iraq or Afghanistan can't remember where he was. At least he was still 02 though, wouldn't it make sense that even if they did change me then I'd do something else where the money they spent training me would be useful?
As for PMC's and NSA, I just meant them as an example for alternatives to the military in general. Are there any agencies/groups you'd recommend/heard good things about?
>>29908046
why do you have such a hardon for marine intel? army navy af for Intel.
also
>no need for SIGNINT in mid00s
your recruiter is a dumb motherfucker who probably got reclassed because he was a dumb motherfucker
>>29908046
I have no idea how the marines operate.
You can get re classed if you have a medical thing that disqualifies you from what you do. They probably won't just be like "Well, guess we broke this one; better chuck him and get a new one." or, flunk something in training and get recycled, you can sign up for a new MOS or just go to training to MOSQ on something else. I have heard sometimes you would have to work outside your MOS for promotions at a certain level, officers basically always have to do that at some point or another.
I hear good things about all U.S. agencies. I wouldn't recommend one for you though because I don't know a lot about them suppose it depends on what you want to do.
If you wanna kick in doors or do intelligence stuff probably ICE, if you just wanna do shooty shooty type stuff and like the out doors border patrol wouldn't be the worse choice. I really don't know the worlds changed a lot since a lot of these organizations have been around. Us people are different and so are their standards. Couple decades ago a lot of these places would of hired war vets WWI,II,Korea,'Nam,ect. Now a days your best bet is probably college to get in.
>>29908470
Marines in particular since I've wanted to be one for the last 10 years or so. I'm open to joining the Army or even possibly Air Force but so far what I've seen from the Army has been a combination of incompetent and lazy individuals mixed with some talented people who still seem to carry the stench of the former on them with only a handful who are top notch, but they only praise specialties like Ranger or medic.
On the other hand every Marine I've met whether they're "fuck this shit I just wan't to be left alone" or moto they always seem to have more of a passion for what they do and internally coiled energy. Even if they're just lounging around and not giving a shit it feels like they're doing it with a purpose. Take the recruiting office for example. Every Marine recruiter I've met talks with confidence and determination like they know what they're doing, meanwhile when I went into the Army recruiting office I felt like everyone was asleep. The guy at the front looked at me like he just woke up and kind of half heartedly asked what I was doing there, the other 4 just stared at me confused, and no one remembered talking to me on the phone 30 min earlier. I got placed with this lady who knew less about what I wanted to do than I did and kept repeating the same self explanatory stuff over and over again in long winded ways (well okay so human intelligence is the guys who are out there talking with people in person, you know? Like they collect information themselves and then give it to other groups, okay?). There was one intelligence guy there but the combination of his thick Asian accent and how passive/disinterested he was didn't help.
Minus one guy in the back it felt like every Army stereotype I had ever heard was being played out, though none of them were clearly fat at least, but aside from the one guy in the back they weren't exactly toned either. Meanwhile I've never met a Marine recruiter who didn't look like he could kick my ass on a PFT.
>>29908470
Oh and I can believe that, the guy didn't come off as exceptionally bright.
>>29908558
Interesting, I'd never heard that people might have to work outside their MOS field. What country are you from? I could live with Border Patrol if we actually started enforcing our borders, until then my number 1 pick was CIA but while I was aware there was incompetence in it until this thread I wasn't aware of how deeply controversial/widespread that incompetence is.
>>29908969
>What country are you from?
>>29884115
Joseph J. Trent's book, "The Secret History of the CIA" is worth looking at.
The book uncovers many of the inadequacies of the CIA, and how they were infiltrated by the Russians even before the CIA was formed!
The precursor organization of CIA, was called OSS (The Office of Strategic Services) formed during WW II. The OSS had been infiltrated by communist during WW II, and they incompetently contaminated the newly formed CIA, with the infection from the OSS.
Trent explains why the Russian intelligence services were far superior, and significantly more experienced at the espionage trade craft.
Most people do not know this espionage fact, but when WW II started, Russia had the the best intelligence gathering organization in the world (Nicknamed: The Red Orchestra). It was created by Peter the Great (1672 - 1725) (I'm still doing some research into this. Info is hard to come by)
Peter the Great in his youth visited western countries, and saw that they were more advanced than Russia. When he became Czar he created a vast spy organization to go out into the world and bring to Russia the information needed to bring Russia up to par with the west.
The communist inherited The Red Orchestra aka Rote Kapelle, and then proceeded to dismantle it...
Joseph Stalin in particular, did his best to destroy "The Red Orchestra"... Because he did not trust White Russians... Stalin ethnic Georgian. White Russians he assumed would be loyal to the Royal Family (Romanov's), instead of the communist.
>>29879884
So sad killed ubl
So sad when it rains while you play
So sad to be the rain
(No try and whistle the 7 dwarfs heigh ho)
So sad so sad
Sad sad so sad it was sad indeed mossad to be so sad so sad so sad
>>29898332
Did you know the cia started as a fucking high project in Yale, now roll in an informative k with true facts as to how going to a school of higher learning confirms a future with endless possibilities because old men had something to do with a group of fraternity men and favors some got a cold then a communist was been looked cuban superman show up and now law enforcement are using sheaperds for something what's the term oh yeah animal husbandry
Hope everyone in this thread gets fired and tried as spies until Snowden gets put up for trial just so might rights may have some resemblence of their former glory there's at least 5 who said they have or do work for tptb. Deus VULT.
>>29909619
Shut the fuck up!
>>29909662
Cuban superman you mean that bitch that willingly jump off a mid flight plane
>>29879884
>Is CIA.. truly the top tier
no
>>29884115
I worked alongside several field officers in Iraq and Egypt. Generally speaking they knew their shit. The problems don't start until information starts moving up the chain.
>>29895667
Well yeah. The old boy's club at CIA at that time were all Cheney's people, and Cheney wanted a glorious war.
>>29883369
Agent 47?
>>29879884
>western intelligence services
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Subversion
>>29909603
>and then russia lived happily ever after
Nice try, Ivan
>>29879884
I'm sad too anon
