And I wonder, why weren't they all wearing chain mails?
It should be effective against arrows, axes and spears, no?
Also chain mails should be very old tech by that time, more than 1000 years old tech.
If they all had chain mails the native americans would have been fucked no?
What the fuck is your point. The introduction of fire arms had basically made every form of metal personal armor useless. Even the tree niggers had guns.
>>29862614
Chain mail is heavy, and if your enemies have a gun(they probably do) then you're carrying around that extra weight for nothing. Not to mention the fact that unless they made it themselves, where te fuck are they going to get chain mail?
>>29862614
It's fucking 1823, chainmail stopped being a thing at least 200 years prior. It expensive as fuck to make and it worthless against gunpower weapons.
>>29862614
1. where the fuck are you going to buy chain in 19th century america?
2. hostile indians mostly had guns, the Arikara (the indians they fight in the movie) traded with the Canadians and Americans for guns.
3. shit is heavy....that's weight you need for muh pelts.
3.
>>29862798
Tree Niggers*
And yes OP Indians had guns and chain mail is shit against edged weapons like Arrows
>>29862614
OP are you me!?!? All I could think about the whole time watching that movie was "why don't they just put on some damn chain mail for god sakes!?!?" ruined the immersion desu
>>29862614
>It should be effective against
>arrows
maybe
>axes
no
>and spears
no
>no?
no
>>29862719
Didn't they had already wire by that time?
Should be very easy if you already have easy wire avaliable.
>>29862920
Arrow no
Axe, maybe, it would stop the cut but not the impact damage
>>29862986
Though it probably would stop stone arrow heads
>>29862922
no wire not premiere on hbo until 2002
Go throw on a chain mail shirt and walk around for 3 weeks in the woods then tell us how you feel about it.
>>29863001
seems like they'd just shear off at the edges and still go in
If you went back in time and had to become a fur trapper in 1823 for one year, what kind of firearms would you bring? You can take modern guns but you have to be sure not to run out of ammo. What level of armor would be needed to stop round .50-.70 rifle and musket balls?
>>29862922
It literally takes weeks to make a single mail jacket and that's if the rings are premade. It would be nearly two months of nonstop work to make one having to wind the wire and create rings out of it.
>>29863048
>>29863048
I'd just bring a fucking AK74 and as many magazines as I could carry
It'd be enough to last me for a LONG time, a hell of a lot more accurate than a musket so I don't waste ammo, I could use it for hunting animals AND prarie/tree niggers, etc etc.
Alternatively I'd bring an FAL with again, as much ammo as I could carry. The key to both of my choices are lightweight, extremely low-maintenance guns that will run in almost any environment.
>inb4 people saying the FAL isn't lightweight
for what it carries and the time period, yes it is
>>29862614
Hey dumbass, bows penetrate plate armor AT RANGE. can you even understand how goddamned useless mail would be?
>axes and spears
mail protects you from push cuts, etc. any kind of "slashing" attack. it COMPLETELY WORTHLESS against a spear, or any other "thrusting" type of attack. Even if it did stop an axe (which is unlikely) it wont stop the force of it from break bones and disabling muscles
>>29863233
A 74 and FAL would be more accurate than a musket but to be fair, most if them had rifles and those would have a chance of beating them in accuracy.
I do wonder how the ballistics would stack up.
>>29863059
I weave chainmail jackets. Or at least I used to many years ago, I'd sell them to reenactors and such. With practice and premade links, you can make a full shirt in a few days, not weeks. I used to make jackets absent mindedly in front of the tv over the course of about a week.
>>29863992
Those old muskets had, if I remember right, torque very comparable to modern full sized cartridges.
They moved slow but had enough mass to keep it even
>>29863116
That rifle was incredibly rad and far ahead of its time, but the Austrian military abandoned it because it needed specialists to repair it, field repairs were difficult, and it was easy to damage to rifle (or the air canister butt stock, mainly the seal) and render it inoperable without specialists around to make those repairs.
>>29863898
>Plainsnigger bow tech
>Puncturing plate
Stone arrowheads, shitty shortbows and weak materials make me think otherwise
>>29863001
by the 1820s most indians were making arrow heads out of metal they traded for.
![wm_3672840[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Y7IPPJb.jpg "wm_3672840[1].jpg")
Why are traditional-looking muzzle loaders so damn expensive? I'm not looking for an exact replica. Just one that isn't plastic and painted like fucking pic related.
>>29863021
underrated etc
>>29864364
I know right? Even muskets are $600+. You'd think that a smooth barrel would make them cheap.
I would also like to point out that mail is steel. Steel conducts heat. So wearing mail would just steal body heat from you in extreme cold. You would probably die before a fight happened.
>>29863048
Probably a 30-30 lever action. They're relatively compact, light, decent rate of fire, powerful enough cartridge, and tube mag means you don't have to worry about magazines which could be cumbersome, potentially break, would be inconvenient to take around in the bush, etc. Anybody who's spent time in the bush knows that the fewer odds and ends you have on your person the better, which makes magazines a pain in the ass.
>>29864622
But if you had a fire you could heat up the mail and wear toasty armor
>>29864622
>Snowniggers run around in mail for centuries
>>29864720
eh, for about 15 min, then it is cold again. It looses heat fast.
>>29864622
A padded gambeson goes under the mail, dude.
>>29864043
>you can make a full shirt in a few days
lol no
You were making shit butted mail with large rings. Real chainmail involves 4-6mm rings riveted or welded together.
>>29865020
>welded
>riveted
are you fucking stupid?
>>29865536
I'm tired as fuck and forgot welded mail is a modern thing, but are you implying that riveted mail didn't exist in the medieval period?
>>29862614
Chainmail is expensive, heavy, and not all that comfortable to wearing while you're trapping for pelts for a fur trading company.
>>29862614
>chainmail
>cold
enjoy your frostbites senpai desu.
>>29862614
Chain mail mostly protects against slashing. It's useless against stabbing. It may provide slight protection against arrows with hunting heads, but is useless against armor piercing tips.
>>29863048
I would take a coat of chainmail.
>>29862819
>tree niggers
Does it make me cool if I say it too?
>>29864675
>magazines are a pain
>carrying a shitload of loose rounds is more convenient
I don't even.
>>29862719
Quite a few Cossacks and Bashkirs still wore chainmail around this point in time.
>>29862719
Chainmail wasn't expensive to make, in fact that's why it was so common, because it was substantially cheaper and easier to make than plate armor.
Chainmails only real downside (for its time) was the amount of time it took to make, which was still shorter than the time to make plate.
>>29863898
>bows penetrate plate armor AT RANGE
This is wrong.
Plate armor is effective against arrows even at close range.
Unless it is a piece of shit that is not face hardend.
>>29864364
Buy a build kit. It's more work, but you can buy a traditions brand kentucky rifle kit for 200 dollars
>>29864298
Ah, I didn't want to make the assumption they had already transitioned
>>29863047
I think the stone would shatter on impact with the rings but who knows
>>29863898
>Hey dumbass, bows penetrate plate armor AT RANGE. can you even understand how goddamned useless mail would be?
Good thing that they didn't have people having interesting opinions like you do in the middle east because they've used bows there until 19th century and mail went out of use with them. It seems like it worked.
>>29864622
you don't wear armour on bare skin.
>>29866830
People who eat ice cream are more likely to be eaten by sharks. It doesn't mean ice cream attracts sharks.
>>29867024
If the guy who ate ice cream is more likely to get eaten by a shark than they guy that didn't it kind of does mean it attracts them
>>29863898
>it COMPLETELY WORTHLESS against a spear, or any other "thrusting" type of attack
Wrong
>>29866365
>it was substantially cheaper and easier to make than plate armor.
Nope.
>>29867145
Whoever on /k/ taught you about chainmail last week was wrong. Open your mind to new information.
>>29862614
they were just fur trappers, not knights of the crusade. none of them could have afforded armor or chainmail even if it were available. most of them by virtue of their "contracts" owed their very existence and daily sustenance to the Fur Company, and most times were still indebt to the company even after a successful tour of trapping. Unless you were an 'independent' trapper/trader, you owed your existence to the big Fur trading company.
This was sort of eluded to in the movie by Tom Hardy's character.
>>29862614
Chain mail doesn't stop arrows dumbass. So now you're slower moving target for the Indians to kill.
>>29862614
Chain mail needs to be polished to prevent rust and broken links need to be replaced. These dudes are deep in the bush, working out of boats and huts. They don't have the space or equipment needed to bring and maintain chain mail. When you're hiking for days through frigid wilderness with very little food the way these guys were, I think you'd also find that a chainmail shirt starts getting very heavy very fast.
Where are they even going to get chain mail? I'd be very surprised if most blacksmiths back then even knew how to make chain mail.
>>29862719
>>29862719
You are incorrect. Go look at a Cuirassier. I've seen the impact marks of many stopped musket balls on one.
Chain mail was in use even in WW1
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113133
Not step back take a deep breath and realise you are one of those people who is full of shit.
The revenant is fantasy. It is not in it because the prop people did not think of it.
>>29862614
What kind of question is this? You know these guys are 19th century fur trappers in Montana, not rich people doing roleplay, right? They don't have access to chain mail, and very few of them could even afford it if they did. Asking why they aren't all kitted out in chainmail is like asking why Somalian pirates don't attack ships with Tomahawk missiles.
>>29867801
Cuirassiers did not wear chainmail, also if you think that 1820s fur trappers portrayed in a movie are not wearing chainmail because the "prop people did not think of it", you're pretty goddamn dumb.
>>29867873
No they wore breastplates. Officers in WW1 worse chainmail. Point is armour was not obsolete even in cutting edge elite units at waterloo. Or the somme.
Not alone are you full of shit you have issues confronting the fact you are full of shit.
>>29863898
>Hey dumbass, bows penetrate plate armor AT RANGE. can you even understand how goddamned useless mail would be?
I think you're thinking about English longbows. Six footstaves with a draw weight of up to 200 pounds. A native bow would come nowhere close to having the penetrating power of a longbow.
>>29867873
Reality Vs fantasy.
You are in fantasy. Ever heard of the Napoleonic wars? WW1?
Off you pop back into fantasyland. The film is fiction.
Chainmail never really went out of use. I have a German anti stab police vest with it in it.
It was use both my trench raiders and tankers in ww1, hell armour of various other forms was in use in the US civil war.
Now uck off like a good little anon you knows very little about fuck all.
>>29867901
I'm not sure who you think you're talking to, but I'm not the guy you were originally replying to... and also please tell me if you actually think that 1820s fur trappers wore chainmail, or any kind of armor for that matter?
>>29867903
It was always a luxury item, but actually pretty practical for forestry work if you had the money. Still is used by lumber men and butchers
http://www.mjscannell.ie/categories.html?filter_set%5B0%5D=106&name=&&perpage=72
It's not in the fictional film because the prop people did not think of it
>>29867903
I heard they got up to 110 lbs draw weight, but 200? Are you sure about? Good lord, those archers had to be ripped.
English longbow: ye olde anti-materiel weapon
>this whole fucking thread
Jesus Christ, this is pathetic. I honestly am pretty sure both sides of the argument are baiting each other with their advanced stupid.
Let me spell this out simply.
They don't have chainmail, because the movie styles itself as realistic, and historically, no one in the American west wore chainmail.
Now please, everyone who posted without saging, kill yourself.
>>29867945
>butchers use it
Yeah, we give it to inmates when they slice meat, but because you use it to slice meat does not mean it is militarily advantageous.
The goalposts.. going... going... gone!
>>29862614
>Hugh Glass had no son
>Tracked the guys who buried him down so he could get his stuff back, not for revenge
>>29862614
Oh my fuck, was that the worst movie or what? I sat through that shit for the whole thing. Fuck that. My brother went with me, then his friend who's grandpa just died asked him to go with him to see it. He couldn't say no so he had to watch it twice. Fuck that shit. Fuck that. No. No. No.
>>29868294
Wew lad!
>>29862819
>chain mail is shit against edged weapons like Arrows
another retarded tripfag, who knew
>>29863898
>Hey dumbass, bows penetrate plate armor AT RANGE. can you even understand how goddamned useless mail would be?
this literally isn't true, holy fuck
>>29867650
It was cheaper to make when labor was worth turnips, by that time most of the old mail makers were long dead and the ones who had the skill to make proper riveted chainmail had other jobs to do that would pay better than making armor for poorfag traders who. Even if they did traders at the time spent most of their time on fucking boats in a river, lifting heavy ass shit for a living why would they burden themselves with armor if it one wouldn't help much if even a couple of the indians had guns and two require constant maintenance from being constantly wet.
>>29866779
I cannot into wood working. Metal is my forte. Wood is too unpredictable.
>>29865536
He's not wrong. Go to a museum and look at their maille. Every ring was riveted shut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw3lcgIAwLk
>>29862614
>Chainmail
Is good against slashing weapon
Weak against thrusting weapon especially those can penetrating tiny rings.
>If they all had chain mails the native americans would have been fucked no?
A man with full suit of armor(Full coverage besides crucial articulation area mail and plate) is almost invulnerable against slashing and light thrusting weapon.
Provided that they didn't find the gap between armor.
