Infantry Tactics
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Ok now I know that 4chan is the best place to get a reliable answer from competent people cuz You know, why would some anon go on 4chan and lie?
But I'm too curious to go past /k/ommandos without even trying so here it is
>What is Your oppinion on US infantry tactics FM's and american infantry doctrine in general?
>What is the reason for not so good reputation of regular us infantry compared with european armies?
>Is it the consequence of it's numbers forcing the level to drop due to much less attention paid toward training standards? Or is the doctrine just a pile of crap?
I seek answers primarily from vets, both from US and other nations that had an opportunity to work along side US troops.
Just let me know what Your background is so I can compare Your feedback to the other sources with at least some reliability
pic dump for intrest
Protip: Infantry tactics are identical among all 1st world nations.
>>29860398
>>29860415
I should add that by tactics/doctrine i mean TTPs
>>29860480
or rather correct
marine infantry machine gunner here. I've trained with Korean marines and the Japanese armies and they take most of their "infantry tactics" from us. The way they organize their infantry squads is a little different but they still operate with your basic 4 man fire team. If I remember correctly they only have 2 teams per squad (like the army) where in the marine corps we have 3.
Infantry tactics are going to be generally the same no matter where you go because it's based on tried and tested practices from years and years of war. It's all about not dying.
Also from what I've heard secondhand from some of my senior marines who were in OIF and OEF, U.S. Marines and soldiers are highly respected amongst foreign militaries for our hard working spirit. They basically see us as big dumb gorillas, which unsurprisingly makes for a very useful infantryman.
Small unit tactics depend on the willingness to execute the assault rather than just the knowledge or what to do. Close with and destroy...ect, ect, ect.
>>29860517
Thanks for the input
Yet what I'm mostly interested in is comparison with militaries that are not copying us and base on their own experiences and doctrine, preferably brits, frenchies etc
>>29860585
Other anon here, it's pretty close to identical over there.
>>29860585
its easy because when marines get shot at they go running in trying to find a better spot or just fighting that fight and then trying to find and kill them. other none us infantry units dont fight like that they use what we have done because we tested them on the field and they work
>>29860398
Overall, infantry doctrine has pretty much standardized throughout all westernized nations, because they work. FMs work to an extent, but you really have to go through training and mostly REPETITION to internalize the lessons. Standard infantry training is pretty standard across all the major militaries.
>>29860735
What the hell are you even saying?
>>29860398
I was always curious on whether or not our infantry tactics were outdated compared to what they could be. We've been fighting poorly-trained third-worlders for the past 60 years, what would happen to tactics if we had a war between first-world nations?
>>29860775
>its easy because when marines get shot at, they go running into combat trying to find a better position, or just fight the fight and try to kill the enemy. Non-US infantry units dont fight like that, they use what [the marines] have done because [the marines] tested these techniques in the field and they work
marines will face the unknown and learn via trials by combat, and other infantry forces pick up their techniques once their effectiveness has been proven
The US hasn't won a fair fight in their entire existance, so asking them for infantry tactics is pretty asking to get fucked up
>>29862467
We would win. Our tactics have been based on how well we do in stand up fights. We haven't ever lost a stand up fight, we never will. The Gulf war ended in six months because we are the best at fighting stand up wars.
>>29860498
>JWK
based
>>29863442
No such thing as a fair fight in war.
>>29860398
>>What is the reason for not so good reputation of regular us infantry compared with european armies?
Most European forces have such a low budget they have to be fussy about who they take, not every country has the wealth to field 11 carrier groups.
>>29863442
>Tactical Advantages are unfair
>The entire history of war is unfair
>I don't know what World War Two is
>The United States and its allies didn't win a fair fight literally before its inception
Honestly, America hating is the funniest thing sometimes.
>>29863442
>fair fight
>fighting fair in warfare
That's a surefire way to guarantee you losing. Within reason, you're not supposed to fight within established paradigms if you're fighting to win. You want to use every conceivable advantage you have and exploit every weakness of your opponent. The Germans did this against France and Poland in '39 and '40, the Russians did it to Germany in '44 with Bagration, and we did it to Iraq in '91 when we skullfucked them in a very short amount of time. Chivalry died a long time ago pal.
>>29860517
Guatemala bro here. US Marines are well respected here in our country. We even have some recon units train with our Kaibiles for jungle warfare training.
>>29863442
this is why we need flags on /k/
>>29863488
By fair I mean remotely even
>>29863442
That's a pathetic way to poison the well
>>29860398
>4chan
>reliable answers
>"Cuz you know"
you must be 18 and above to visit this site.
>>29863442
>hasn't won a fair fight since the world war 2
FTFY
>>29863587
And you're still unbelievably wrong.
>>29860398
>What is the reason for not so good reputation of regular us infantry compared with european armies?
eurofags that have never fought a war and don't know what they're talking about
I was an NCO when I arrived at the 75th Ranger Regiment. After ROP, I was integrated into the ranks. They practiced superior tactics and intense rehearsals. What they lacked was common dismounted patrolling techniques.
I felt removed from the elite standpoint when I conducted training classes. I was schooling rangers on shit my regular army airborne infantry units were well rehearsed.
Who the fuck doesn't know a box ambush? Who doesn't employ left and right security? Who doesn't send out R&S patrols?
We are not a bunch of tire house shooting CQB super dudes. We need to know how to fight.
Don't get me started on airborne ops. Sheesh.
>>29860398
>>What is the reason for not so good reputation of regular us infantry compared with european armies?
Europoors say this to make themselves feel better about their militaries.
It goes like this.
>US military is strongest and largest in the world
>But euro soldiers are better ;^)
>>29863618
You joking? The US had fresh troops vs women and children on the German side in WW2
They were also busy fire bombing cities
Any time a fair fight happened in WW2, they would get btfo
>>29860412
>has to carry an M4 and an M240B
I had a friend who had to do that because all the officers and NCOs took the handguns.
How come they don't issue the guys who need pistols, pistols? I get that no one wants to carry a rifle if they don't have to, but there can't be that big a shortage of handguns.
>>29863747
>Battle of the Bulge.
>>29863747
>Hitler didn't activate his Total War trapcard
>The US just hates women, children, minorities and gays
>>29863648
/thread
Euros suck the US defense cock and then have the gall to bitch about it.
>>29863747
The US had to undertake operations a half a world away from where they were which may seem like nothing now but was still difficult then. They were almost always invading putting them at a disadvantage and they fought in two theaters. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
>>29863725
I want to get you started on airborne ops. Why the hell are all these specialized infantry roles forgetting basic principles/tactics?
>>29863747
Should we have waited for Germany to get back on its feet before kicking its ass?
Would Germany have done the same? They didn't to Britain, or anybody for that matter. Not even American, but you're fucking stupid. War has always been about how to fuck over the other guy in a way that doesn't fuck you up as much as possible. It's always been that way, it always will be. You're absolutely fucking stupid if you think it works any other way.
>>29863442
You're doing it wrong if you're in a fair fight.
>>29863937
Wasn't Germany that wanted war, this was the eternal anglo trying to destroy europe
They succeeded, and now they are a socialist shithole with muslims raping children in every city
>>29864052
You know, if you typed in whatever your first language was it might be easier to understand what you're saying
>>29864052
>It was the "Eternal Anglo" that invaded Poland, Belgium, France, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands and started the second world war
Damn, that's pretty impressive of them. And all the while being dressed up as German soldiers to.
>>29863508
>Chivalry died a long time ago pal.
Depends on how you look at it. We use tech superiority, massive numerical superiority, and over-the-top logistics to guarantee that we end the conflict quickly. Kuwait and Iraq are the current examples.
Oddly enough, by ending it quickly, we're saving lives. That is a form of chivalry, right there.
>>29863587
War isn't a game, moron. If you wind up in a fight with an evenly matched opponent, the body count skyrockets. Worse yet, it could be an inconclusive battle. That means it needs to be fought again, killing more people.
You're a fucking idiot. Try reading some von Clauswitz, or Sun Tzu. Or any other strategist, from any era. The whole point of warfare is to make sure that you have more advantages than the other guy.
>>29863747
#dresdenhoax
American infantry tactic is that upon being fired upon from 1 kilometer by a farmer with an AK47 you start digging in and calling in airstrikes on that position
>>29867187
This is true. That's why I was asking about whether or not our tactics need improvement if we ever fought another first world country. I see their drills and it just seems so easy to kill a bunch of them if you're a halfway decent shot.
>>29867542
Full Air Dominance is doctrine regardless, so it'll still be retreat and airstrike. Or infiltrate and airstrike if you're high speed, low drag.
>>29863575
Flags are the cancer that is killing 4chan, I have no idea why people come to 4chan when they have a clear distaste for anonymity.
Fucking bootlicker thinking.
>>29867187
>be infantry
>someone shooting at us very, very far off
>unlike the marines, the US army does not generally have snipers attached to a company
>but do have near constant close air support available 24/7 and a JTAC
>if in range, call in artillery
>if not, call in air
>no need to advance 1 klick to a target
>boom target neutralized 0 casualties continue mission
wew
>>29863442
Brit detected
>>29860398
>asking for infantry tactics
>on /k/
Go outside and find some friends first.
>>29860398
A lot of people are spouting the "le airstrike" maymay but the US is promised air superiority in pretty much every conflict fought.
As for the actual combat, think of it like a hammer and anvil, when you have a TIC, the infantry dig in and keep the enemy engaged and pinned down. When the artillery or air support gets there they light them up.
It's that "you hold em by the nose while we kick em in the ass" stuff.
coming from euro light infantry.
experience mostly with marines in cold response, and talking with dudes the operated with murrica in afgan.
Firstly seems like you guys are very reliant on support elements, when conducting conventional warfare. (ifv, tanks, arty,)
individual skills in not cqb suffers as a result. things like taking proper cover, changing position often when in contact, get into proper cover and change position when reloading/doing some shit etc.
Masters of cqb.
Too agressive for their own good, when support is limited.
Dismounted SOP is poor,
formations when patrolling, and moving platoons.
>>29867666
Well the US actually has planes and armor that is functioning because we pay people to maintain it.
I wouldn't expect you to know anything about that.
Unless you're Polish, in which case I retract my statement.
>>29867666
specifically norwegian infantry.
and I'm not saying that marines are shit, there are shittier units I've met, this is compared to our own, finnish, swedish and especially royal marines, which are fucking hardcore
>be me, euro in afghanistan with UN flag
>we laugh at americans always calling in support instead of fighting
>we later get access to american support, can call it in just like americans
>always use it, never confront anyone again
>>29867686
Norwegians get some nice guns. Your account seems about right with what I was thinking
>>29863496
I always hate when people say shit like that. I realize that the most they deal with guns is via video games, but it pisses me off more than "Sword>gun" argument. It's such a conflicting mindset that these people work themselves into. The first rule of any fight outside a bout or match is: do anything to win.
>inb4 unfair
The reason the human race invents new ways to kill eachother is to do it easier, faster, and more effectively than before.
>>29863747
Damn wehracucks are delusional as fuck, the got BTFO even when it was even sides
Also
>dresden deserved to be firebombed for the sole purpose of killing civilians and destroying morale
>>29864208
kek it was all a black flag operation
>>29863766
I've heard people say this happened a few times. What I don't get though, is what this means the officers and NCOs are carrying. Is this just around base or do you have officers going out on patrol with only pistols? They must he really shit officers to take a rifle and pistol over just a rifle and a less tired machine gunner.
>>29869638
Range medic here, I have seen a lot of weird shit in my time. this is not only true fucking but also fucking baffling as soon as you step on any range with an officer. I've seen these incompetent fuckers flag everyone on the range, ventilate my buddy's boot, and score a 6/40.
Easiest way to understand officers is that they will have the same mindset as a drunk chick in a bar when it comes to their rank.
>"You can't say THAT to ME"
>"Uhhh, NO, I don't have to."
>"That sounds hard/boring/not fun."
Fuck MedCom
>>29867666
Ex US army grunt here.
In the corps defense the 3 element squad is harder to control, the squad leaders primary concern revolves around the positioning of the support team, as opposed to the Army with 2 carbon copy 4 man fireteams where the SL can enforce formational discipline.
IMO my experience with the French and Italians left alot to be desired in formation discipline, but that probably also had something to do with the fact I was dealing with dismounted French and Italian Mech infantry
>>29867686
>>29867666
OP here, I am especialy intrested in dismounted aspect. what aspect of moving/patroling is lacking? Is it their personal training resulting in ? or is it just the way they intend to do it that is worthless?
