Swissfag here.
I recently had the opportunity to shoot my first AR15. Compared to the Stgw 90:
>light as fuck
>more ergonomic
>awesome modularity
>can basically replace all parts without much trouble
>shot it at 300 meters without a bipod. Still pretty accurate if I train with it more.
Shit man, why the fuck doesn't our army adopt this type of rifle?
I find it way better than the Stgw 90.
Not having to depend on some other country to produce your rifle is a good idea.
>>29844725
We could produce this rifle in Switzerland. SIG Sauer already makes these types of rifles, it wouldn't be a big jump for Swiss Arms to also do the same.
>>29844729
Not quite Sig doesn't make DI AR-15 they make two ar15 based piston system.
Sig 516 are quite possibly the shittiest piston ar15's on the market. Sig MCX is supposedly better.
>>29844868
SIG makes the M400 doesn't it?
How can you say that it wouldn't be possible to manufacture a Swiss AR15 type of rifle in Switzerland? It would be a piece of cake.
>>29844880
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/06/foghorn/sig-sauer-produce-guns-us-2015/
Doesn't help that Sig makes most of its guns in the US.
>>29844880
Sig only makes 550 style rifles in Switzerland the rest in US and Germany
>>29844712
I will contest the ergonomic part, since I absolutley love them on the SIG
As for the adoption part:
Were you even in the army yet? adopting somthing as major as a new rifle takes forever and costs a shit ton of money also armasuisse probably couldn't decide on from which manufaturer to buy, then RUAG would need to do some unnessceary changes which let the price sky rocket. this leads to the VBS covering up those additional expenses, this then leads to a fucking referendum by the SP and/or GSoA and voilà we have another Mirage/Panzer 68/FIS Heer/Bodluv affair
And we always did our own thing with personal arms the next one is very likley the B&T APC223 and that thing is very similar to an AR in terms of ergonomics
>>29844907
>>29844917
Sure they do, but you are implying that Switzerland doesn't have the technology and the know how to make an AR15 for the army? Come on dude.
>>29844919
> B&T APC223
You actually think that that rifle will replace the Stgw 90?
>>29845288
This >>29844919 dude here, yes i believe the APC223 or a design based on it will replace the Stgw 90
>>29845352
So Gucci. Wish they'd import the damn thing instead of jerking us off with semi auto SMG "pistols."
It's the only non bullpup, non AR 5.56 I want right now.
>>29844712
because it would make you NATO cucks, and would not work well during winter / in snowy mountains, with extremely long distances. STGW90 / Sig 550 can fire much hotter rounds than typical AR.
Well then fuck you
You can have my AR and I'll trade for your Sig
>>29845768
>Falling for this bullshit
After all these years, after how many god damned times its been called out and proven to be bullshit.
ARs work fine in cold weather if you use GREASE, not WATER BASED LUBE. Fuck, use Graphite based lube.
And where the fuck are you getting this idea where the AR can't fire hot rounds?
It can fire most fucking anything if you build it to, IE get a 20" barrel, with the right twist rate, and shoot NATO spec Ammo which, OH SHIT, is fucking "hot" .223.
Fucking retards, I swear.
>>29844712
OP, compared to much of what is on the market, the STGW90 does have issues but this mostly pertains to Switzerland being a bunch of cucks when it comes to military.
Railed handguard, redesigned barrels and parts that make assembly easier and cheaper thanks to modern manufacturing techniques and CNC, collapsible stocks, and dear god a better way to fucking mount optics.
Hell, even in the grand scheme of things, Switzerland would be better off switching to the M4A1 as FNH and Colt is currently making them for the military at 400 bones + repair parts and cleaning kit.
>>29845838
If they haven't been using CNC to make them from the get-go, I'd be VERY surprised.
Fuck, Remington has been making sporting rifles with CNC since at least the 60's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNIb20fDTY4
>>29845838
>ARs work fine in cold weather if you use GREASE
that fact that you NEED to grease your guns came as a big shock to me, who'd used mainly AK-based rifles.
Also Swiss have their own extra hot 5.56 rounds, meant for long range engagement. Like 600+ meter distances.
>>29845869
The "factory" is basically ~12 dudes in a small shop making spare parts and refurbing old guns. Swiss Arms is basically dead at this point outside of a handful of orders. The pistols they made for the US market was one of the largest orders they've had for a long time. Sad desu but the system is overpriced as fugg for what is essentially an AK.
>>29845879
I already corrected you on multiple occasions. It's blatantly false and you know it. Get off the SIG cock.
>>29845891
>TFW my country might've kept Swiss Arms afloat
>>29845838
Their Air Force keeps bankers hours.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/feb/19/swiss-air-force-ethiopian-airlines-hijacking-office-hours
>>29845869
Well I meant more in terms of redesigning the lower receiver.
Stamped sheet metal... Is not ideal in most any rifle. Russia gets away with it because the AK is disposable and they use zerg idiocy tactics.
But in this day and age? There's no reason to not be machining a more compact and modular, not to mention CHEAPER rifle from aluminum when newer CNC machines can take out a lot of the work.
>>29845879
You NEED to grease it as much as you NEED to if you're using ANY rifle in cold weather, coming from a Wisconsin fag who's tested this with both an AK and AR. Both work fine once warmed up but why have to make your rifle a straight pull?
Fucking grease it. Lube is for fucking bolt actions anyway.
And are you talking about the GP90 "humanitarian" rounds the Swiss like to use?
I literally cannot find anything about this. Irregardless, the US military has their 77gr sierra boat tail rounds that reach out and touch someone at 850 meters.
>>29845908
Fug Swiss fags are so fucking screwed if something major happens.
>>29845929
You can't find anything about it because it's bullshit he keeps fabricating from his favorite animu Upotte!.
He even tried to claim it was blowing up ARs in another thread before it was pointed out that it was being sold stateside as certified SAAMI .223 Remington stateside and was a common plinking round in Germany.
It's a shit round desu.
>>29845288
They would need a licensing agreement and a factory capable of mass production, there's a good chance neither of those are possible.
>>29844729
SIG probably doesn't make AR15s in Switzerland because there is no market for them their and they can't be imported here.
>>29845938
Well considering its a lead core, copper jacketed, copper plugged round designed to be "humanitarian"... It makes sense?
Christ, all the stupid shit Nordic countries pull, hell many Eurocucktries pull makes me wonder how the hell has NATO and the UN been around for so long.
>>29845838
>ARs work fine in cold weather if you use GREASE, not WATER BASED LUBE. Fuck, use Graphite based lube.
in military application having to use different lubrication for different purposes is stupid, and unwanted.
grunt #543 are better of using the same lube for cleaining and lubrication in both hot and cold weather.
piston guns needs less care to operate in adverse conditions, theres a reason canada is the only arctic country using DI. and those are specifically deigned to handle the cold weather
>>29845929
GP90 was meant to be "humanitarian" because of politicians basing their decisions on the knowledge of weapons they get from movies and myths, the same issues we have with gun laws. They made the round heavier, slightly slower than NATO ammo and with a slightly tougher jacket to prevent fragmentation; the unforseen consequence was that the round yawed a lot more than standard 5.56 when impacting a human target (apparently we found this out in the aftermath of a shooting) and the result was that next to no victims had an exit wound. Which makes for a pretty good round efficiency-wise.
As for the air force having office hours, it's a consequence of high expenses. The left keeps pushing to cut military costs while sustaining groups like GSoA in the meantime, with the result that the entire Swiss Army has a total budget of 4.5 billion dollars per year. That is absolutely ridiculous, it's peanuts even when compared to second rate militaries all across the globe, yet we do all that we can to make our soldiers as efficient as possible. We have among the best-trained people in Europe and I've seen American soldiers go wide-eyed at some of our training standards and the leadership skills of our officers.
We do what we can and more with what we have and less even when impeded by stupid fucks who should know more, thank more and speak less.
>>29845996
No, fucking using grease is common sense because the increased temps and pressures, not to mention friction generated in a Semi auto means that liquid based lubricants will dry and evaporate.
Fucking grease is actually used BY Russia and the US. The CLP the US uses is actually a Semi liquid that turns grease like when it dries.
But US armorers still have and use straight Grease for everything from the M2 to the M9.
News flash, piston guns ALSO need lubricants as well, especially in cold weather or sandy conditions, which Russia found out when THEY decided to play in the Afghan sandbox. Sand and grit fucks with any rifle and need as much care as any PROPERLY built and specced AR Stoner impingement rifle.
Canada uses literally a M16A4, built by Colt, only it has a bull barrel and they call it the C8A2.
There is nothing "specifically designed" about it, it's MEANT to be technically identical TO the M16 and M4 the US uses BECAUSE THEY'RE ON THE SAME FUCKING CONTINENT AND HAVE TREATIES TO DIRECTLY HELP EACH OTHER IN TIMES OF WAR, AND IF YOUR GROUND POUNDERS CANT USE THE SAME FUCKING GUN OR REPAIR THEM WITH THE SAME PARTS YOU CREATE ONE PAIN IN THE ASS LOGISTICS CHAIN.
>>29846052
Isn't the difference in standards more because Switzerland uses conscripted forces and their entire military relies on conscripts for ground pounders. Can't find much on training but some of the tests seem unorthodox.
There's also some clear differences when you consider HOW training is conducted. In the US you get your basic 3 months then you're shipped out to your tech school where you'll get more of what you need. From what I understand, Switzerland is more a generalized program because they literally cannot afford to specialize as much as the US can.
In the US, if you need to be a crack shot and do a 5 minute mile, they'll train you to that point. If you only need to be able to defend a post if you're interrupted while setting up computers, then that's your standard
>>29846126
liquid base lubricants doesnt evaporate you retard. the only difference between grease and oil is the viscosity.
norwegian 416s are run with break free clp, and run almost dry in winter.
The main advantage of pistons in winter is that the ice buildup are less likely to fuck up the gun. and since heat is concentrated at boltface and piston, theres less chance of ice buildup.
and diemacos, at least the c8 i've had experience with is not the same as m4s. different materials, and the system is gassed differently as far as I've been told
>>29845908
they are chaneging that, but because some fucktards voted against the Gripen financing it will take longer
>hurrrrr the Tigers are still fine and they fly
>hurr I don't know what a worn out air frame is
the office times are just a result of decades of budget cuts
>>29846233
>lubricants don't evaporate when exposed to high temperatures and pressures found in guns
wew lad
>>29846303
if you lube those areas you are doing it wrong anon.
the bolt temperature in an DI ar 15 is like max 80 celsius. furthermore the contact surface between bolt and bcg does not experience any pressure increase,
as i said if you are lubricating the expansion champer, you are a retard. if you are lubricating the piston in a piston gun you are also retarded.
the problem with cold weather is that lube gets thick, and the guns get sluggish, grease will aonly make it worse, unless using specialized stuff.
powder lubricants dont suffer these issues and is preferred in cold weather, but since militarys like one size fits all mentality, they just run shit dry in winter conditions
>>29846233
Fine fucking dry out. What's the fucking difference other than nitpicking semantics. The difference is Grease doesn't dry out as quickly as oil and lubricates better from a mechanical standpoint. They last longer, don't dry out and have a LOWER freezing point than liquid based lubricants.
And its funny you mention the HK 416 because right out the gate, Norway was having issues with it DURING winter.
And none the less, the AR is a SELF CONTAINED SYSTEM. Literally the only way moisture can build up is if you start pouring water into it. Even condensation from going from a warm to cold area doesn't build up in the internals except for around the bolt carrier which is an immediate non issue IF YOU USE GREASE. I know BECAUSE I hunt during the winter where it can get to fucking -20. You use grease on an AR bolt carrier and moisture is a non issue. The M416 on the other hand has an exposed piston that CAN freeze if improperly lubricated BECAUSE it is exposed to the environment as it has to bleed off gas through the vent in the handguard.
Christ and its like you have no understanding of how the AR works either.
And God, where are you getting this shit? Fucking upotte?
The ONLY TECHNICAL DIFFERENCE ACCORDING TO COLT OF CANADA, between the M4A1 and C8, is that the C8 which was never fucking ISSUED AS A STANDARD INFANTRY RIFLE, was that the C8 was an M4 with an M16a2 carry handle upper AND that the C8 WAS to have a heavy bull barrel instead of the pencil barrel the M4 uses.
That's it.
Same fucking aluminum.
Same fucking springs.
No they're not fucking gassed differently you retard because the C7A2 and M16A4 both use a fucking 20" barrel with a rifle length gas system and the C7A2 uses a fucking hammer forged psudo bull barrel, from a technical standpoint. if you want to be a fucking autist, there's also a longer stock, beefier handguard and mounting point for the EGLM 40mm grenade launcher.
ACCORDING TO COLT and not "what I've been told".
>>29846244
Your absolutely correct. The main issue as I see it is mindset. With a dwindling budget, the administrator apparently doesnt seem to care that not even the radar station is manned. There is a cost to having two people there and the radar on at all times, but even just a heads up that something is coming in, even if you have make phone calls to have whoever respond is something better.
But it took a incident to expose this.
The electorate takes at least some manner of pride in the military, its something like 96% militia. They dont see any need for capital programs to reinvigorate, and really just keep up their assets.
Its that whole "wood and iron, and will last for centuries" mindset old world european leadership had about weapons from back in the day.
Such is life.
>>29846383
yep, the best (for the army) that could happend would be if Trump gets elected and started another cold war with russia
then the army would get the funding it needs
>>29846438
Make Switerland Great again?
Problem with your plan is that Trump and Putin get along pretty well. Not sure if hed pull a G.W. and pick putin up from the airport in his pickup, and personally drive him back to the house for a meeting, but there is more likelihood of a Putin/Trump bromance than continuing the Obama/Putin cold war stance.
>>29846438
Literally wrong candidate. Only two people left you should probably research them a tad
>>29846365
>Same fucking aluminum.
>Same fucking springs.
maybe, but not same steel, same heat treating, same manufacturing process. etc.
>And its funny you mention the HK 416 because right out the gate, Norway was having issues with it DURING winter.
yes, it was due to carbon buildup that fucked up the AGB so it was stuck on silencer mode. this undergassed the system and allowed for ice in the AGB to lock it up.
c8 has the same issues. except you cant fix it wtih a mod to the AGB like they did on the 416.
> the AR is a SELF CONTAINED SYSTEM. Literally the only way moisture can build up is if you start pouring water into it
well no. melting snow gets into everywhere, and it is/was a problem on the C8. not as much with the 416.
>he M416 on the other hand has an exposed piston that CAN freeze if improperly lubricated
it will get fucked IF you lube it. pistons should not be lubed unless its set up for long time storage.
>>29846458
>Trump and Putin get along pretty well.
fucking wut
you really know their only interaction was when putin said he supports trump as candidate
and you got no idea that this means ?
he is unpopular (hated) in entire western world now, his support is only negative, this how putin exerts his tiny bit of influence on usa
I would quite literally suck you off for a week straight for a 550.
>>29845838
> RAILS 'n stuff
Problem Officer?
>>29846517
No, it's literally THE SAME FUCKING PARTS BECAUSE COLT FUCKING USES THE SAME FUCKING SPRINGS AND GRADE OF STEEL.
WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS SHIT?
And yes and no, it was because of the cold and ice. The issues with the C8 came about because it wasn't fucking designed to take a fucking suppressor and suppressors fucking fuck with back pressures and fucking gassing and unless you use an adjustable fucking gas system to regulate the amount of gas, it's going to fucking have issues.
Which is fucking ironic considering that's what fucking SOCOM found out, figured out and fixed 2 decades ago.
And YES, the AR IS a self contained gas system. Literally THE ONLY THREE POINTS OF ENTRY are the barrel, the small gap where the trigger comes out of and the fucking ejection port which has a fucking dust cover. No fucking gun is going to work with shit shoved in the barrel. No fucking gun is going to work with shit fucking the trigger, which the M416 has an almost identical trigger that can be swapped out and can and does work. Fucking close the dust cover.
Otherwise, if you close the dust cover, you've completely closed off the AR15's gas system. Gas is fed from the barrel, into the tube, into the upper, where it impinges upon the gas key which seals back up once the bolt returns to battery. Its. Fucking. Contained.
>>29846566
Putin likes Trump because he supports the US and doesn't fall for the PC bullshit Putin loaths.
He's actually talked about how he's okay with Muslim immigrants but will fucking kill them if they decide to practice sharia law and retarded bullshit like that.
He's also said the same about the same sort of progressive idiocy Bernie and Shillary tote, like the fucking US having to apologize for people owning slaves 250 years ago, or fucking falling into line with the BLM movement even though their leader has close ties to a FBI most wanted terrorist that is currently hiding in Cuba.
>>29846597
To bad it's not standard issue.
>>29846630
you sound terribly upset
where are you from upset friend?
also
>Rifle is fine :^)
>>29845929
Don't be such a fuckboy. Rifle performs the same. Stamped metal is literally fine, stop being autistic.
>>29846356
>having some limp dick shit gun that has an action that gets gummed up from grease
wew lad
get a bigger spring fag
SIG master race reporting in
>>29846630
I love how conservitards rail against Sharia law then turn around and start passing the same shit with a Christian basis.
>>29846630
C8 have problems in winter running without surpressor. supressors are rarely used. it has problems because the stoner gas system doesnt handle cold temperatures as well as piston operated systems.
colt canada and formerly diemaco redesigned and produced the c7, c8 and c9 independently from colt usa. and as far as I can see they are still being produced in canada.
lying face down buried in snow will let water into your gun, even if you close the dustcover, try actually
>where it impinges upon the gas key
well there we have it, confirmed for not knowing shit about the AR 15.
>>29846917
there is literally no (0, zero) reason to grease up your god damned gas piston, you're just asking for more maintenance.
use the gun as it was designed to, and save the money on that spring.
>>29845288
Nope.
>>29844712
>modularity
>in an army
Do you even logistics?
>>29846517
There is no heat treatment for metals that imparts anti freezing properties, nor is there a special anti freezing steel or anti freezing machining process. There IS steel that resists embrittlement in super cold conditions but that ain't the problem is it?
>>29845929
To be honest if that plane would have crashed into geneva and killed thousands, we as swiss would be better off.
![604bbc3df1c837c884eecf1d22c7811d[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Gj1913F.jpg "604bbc3df1c837c884eecf1d22c7811d[1].jpg")
>>29847062
>>29846126
>There's also some clear differences when you consider HOW training is conducted. In the US you get your basic 3 months then you're shipped out to your tech school where you'll get more of what you need. From what I understand, Switzerland is more a generalized program because they literally cannot afford to specialize as much as the US can.
Well If people are being specialized like mechanics or abc people they already did their education in university or apprentiships. Its just the basic training of being a solder.
>>29847089
my point about that was that they arent the same, diemaco revamped the m16 to canadian specifications, which includes extreme cold.
the barrels are different because of the arctic condition.
and one of the guys that participated in the selection of the 416 told that the C8sfw were gassed differently than the m4.
>>29847132
The US is also an all-volunteer professional force, so it's not like "do my conscription, then back to normal life."
>>29847131
May I remind you good sir that we in switzerland dont have a multi billion dollar military budged.
>>29847151
No problem if you have a population of 320 mio and a lot of poor people without any other option.
>>29844868
>Sig 516
You know, I used to think this. Then I got a Sig 516 upper for next to nothing and decided I'd give it a shot. I've got around ~300 rounds through it now, without a single issue. It's been exactly as reliable as my Daniel Defense DI upper. There is zero cam pin wear in the upper receiver, and it hasn't shown any sign of carrier tilt wear on the buffer tube.
It's heavy, but that's in large part due to the heavy barrel and quad rail.
Compared to the HK 416, I like the gas regulator design better, and it actually has a standard receiver height unlike the HK.
>>29844919
>B&T APC223
Huh, looks like everyone is making a SCAR ripoff these days. Maybe people would just buy the FN if they didn't price it like it was made out of rare ores or something.
>>29844919
>B&T APC223
No just no. In the LBA we had a short discution but thats a no.
>>29847236
and why?
>>29847236
What is the LBA?
>>29847474
If anything well just get a picantini foreguard (not the crappy one we have now) All the necessary requirements and needs have already been covered by the Stgw 90. Just like the US with the Ar-15s we dont have a reason to switch to a completly different model.>>29847506
Thats the Logistics Base of the Armed forces. There are 5 big ones and several outposts of them.
>>29844712
>Shit man, why the fuck doesn't our army adopt this type of rifle?
Because the AR15 cannot pass the Swiss Army requirements, for one?
An AR15 cannot be motorcycle kicked on the charging handle to unstick a frozen rifle (and subsequently maintain minimum accuracy requirements).
That said, the 550 is silly. It's too heavy and too long. Modularity is pretty meh and ergonomics can easily be improved with a few changes.
And this is coming from a 551 owner.
Here's a write up of the acceptance testing: http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/
It makes for an interesting read.
>>29847607
>Modularity is pretty meh
And when I say modularity, I don't mean slapping on a top rail & a quad rail fore end, because I have both (though I never use the B&T quad rail).
>>29845879
The marine corps qual with the M16A4 has 600m targets and US army training incorporates 600m ACOG shots but the qual is still 300m
>>29846052
>We have among the best-trained people in Europe and I've seen American soldiers go wide-eyed at some of our training standards and the leadership skills of our officers.
That's because of the no bullshit winter and mountain warfare training you guys do, meanwhile we have a mountain division that really is just a light infantry formation with a large amount of organic helicopter assets and shit like ATV's that mainly trains cold weather/extreme cold weather but is stationed at a base with flat terrain - at least it's one of the coldest spots in the continental US.
Both the army and Marines run mountain warfare schools, but IRL they are more akin to leadership schools then something like Airborne school.
The helicopter has been seen to greatly augment mountainous warfare capabilities.
>>29846566
I don't think most people care about the loaded opinions the west has about Russia. We don't want to go to war with them over petty bullshit like faggot elites and their WW3 fantasies to bring Russia under the petrodollar, esp. when Russia has made it clear they are against Islamic Extremism too.
>>29847132
The US is specializing less now, ATX's and infantry style tasks are being integrated into post basic tech/MOS schools.
As we saw in Iraq/Afghanistan non combat troops like MP's and 88M's were getting into frequent combat while the infantry ran around looking for a fight
>>29847151
>force, so it's not like "do my conscription, then back to normal life."
To be fair the US should take retention much more seriously, because the average joe feels "finish out my enlistment, go back to civvie life".
Like for example much more should be done to retain elite troops - SF, Rangers, etc. - push to get them to stay elite with bonuses and if they still want civ life throw money at them to go Guard/reserves and join up with guard SF or recon/airborne units (most guard airborne units are recon anyway)
>>29847908
I was wondering about that. From what I was to gather in Kosovo a lot of the americans mostly MPs there were not used/trained in closer combat, as we had a big field to practice Fire and movement. Also the way the guys did the enterence controll at Casablanca was often a reason for us to try and practice.
>>29847947
>"finish out my enlistment, go back to civvie life".
But muh G.I. Bill. :(
>>29847947
>To be fair the US should take retention much more seriously, because the average joe feels "finish out my enlistment, go back to civvie life".
More often than not it's because toxic leadership, because anybody smart gets out while the assholes who enjoy playing the system get promoted.
>>29848163
I can second that even here in switzerland its the same shit.
>>29845996
The USA (the largest arctic force other than Russia) has been using the M16 in the arctic circle for the best part of 50 years now dumbass
>>29847947
>Like for example much more should be done to retain elite troops - SF, Rangers, etc. - push to get them to stay elite with bonuses and if they still want civ life throw money at them to go Guard/reserves and join up with guard SF or recon/airborne units (most guard airborne units are recon anyway)
What the fuck do you think the retention nco is for?
Couldn't you fix 90% of these freezing bolt problems with a titanium nitrite coated bolt and bcg
>>29848702
http://kitup.military.com/2016/02/army-says-weapons-treated-with-permanement-lube-will-eliminate-clp.html
>>29848422
and it isnt good, look I've worked with the marines during cold response in norway. when the temp drops below -20C, guns starts locking up.
it works if you treat the gun right. but a piston system will work just as well with lase care and effort in arctic conditions.
furthermore, USA may be the largest arctic force, but its main focus isnt the arctic unlike canada, russia, norway, sweden and finland.
>>29848731
>self cleaning
I've heard that one before.
coatings will be worn off, and youd have to use clp at some point anyways, unless they constantly recoat them.
>>29848846
How many icebreakers do each of these countries have?
I know Canada just made a huge contract to build a bunch.
>>29847169
>>29849447
oh god damn it i blew it on the increments again did I. Fuck... Well I ment that we have in no way the same financial capacity in funding for the army as the us.-
>>29849511
>oh god damn it i blew it on the increments again did i
I assume you're a non-burger who's first language isn't english?
Where are you from anon, give me your military's secrets.
>>29849554
Yes, Switzerland. And no.
Its already enerving enough that we have to treat your Stingers as classified material.
>>29848865
Probably, but a lot less and it'll protect the surface treatments better.
>>29844868
>Sig 516 are quite possibly the shittiest piston ar15's on the marke
Substantiate, please.
>>29849737
no that's retarded why wouldn't they compare it against a chromed bolt? it's just a shit article, it really said nothing.
>>29849851
>Hurr I know beter than DARPA
>>29847003
>sharia law
>women completely covered or stoned to death
>no rights whatsoever
>Decapitated for not praying 1000 Times a day
>Christianity
>be a decent person
>contribute to your community
>no one executed
Hm yeah they sure are identical
>>29844712
Stgw is more suitable for your alpines though.
The Alaska State Police Cold Weather Rifle Test determined severe cold weather as one of the major detrimental factors in AR15 reliability and operation.
>>29850464
I hear Christian women aren't allowed to leave the home alone or drive!
>>29845838
>ARs work fine in cold weather if you use GREASE, not WATER BASED LUBE
Hey you fucking retard: don't make shit up just to feel smart. There's enough people here with AR/M16 experience to answer questions correctly - there's no need for you to just throw out whatever sounds right. Huge fucking problem on this board, people just like you doing what you just did.
>water based lube
>for steel parts
>going to heavier grease instead of an oil that stays liquid at low temps
>>29850464
>>29851789
>Implying there aren't parts of the country where it's like that
>>29851989
The only reason Mormon's haven't been completely eradicated is because of how many fucking times they've killed people who tried. Everyone just decided to give up and let them live their extremely milk toast lives.
>>29844712
Wanna trade?
>>29844712
R A N G E
A
N
G
E
>this thread
both rifles are awesome, but I'd place the 550 on just a very slightly higher pedestal than the AR, purely based on personal preference
>>29845996
>Gives soldiers special gear for cold weather
>Gives soldiers special training for cold weather
>Gives soldiers special rations for cold weather
>Nah, issuing a different lubricant is too hard
Do you see how you're retarded? The US uses grease already and already has it in the inventory. Grease doesn't freeze, it stays in place better, and it displaces water. All weapons require grease or specialized cold weather lubricant to work in arctic environments, and every cold weather military issues some form of it.
It's alright to not know shit, but keep your mouth shut.
>>29853738
>Grease doesn't freeze
>Never been anywhere where it actually gets cold.
>>29847016
No one is saying grease the piston fuck tard.
>>29847607
>An AR15 cannot be motorcycle kicked on the charging handle to unstick a frozen rifle
Oh man, do I have news for you...
>>29853755
-10F every winter and my home was built in the 1940s so I don't have any heat other than a small electric heater in each room. I know cold as well as almost anyone in the continental US.
Slip EWG, what the hell do you use? FrogLube?
>>29853822
I live in an area -10 is still considered a warm winter day.
I use a frigidized silicone oil for anything outside in the cold.
>>29853846
Ok, you still haven't refuted my point. EWG is rated to -100F and has never frozen on me, and I have no doubt it would freeze at anything warmer than what it's rated. So...grease doesn't freeze. If you want I'll qualify it as Slip Extreme Weapons Grease doesn't freeze and will keep your rifle functioning. Are you happy?
>>29853870
So what you';re sayiong is you have no actual experience and need to rely on the ad sheets.
Grease stiffens in the cold and fucks with proper funtioniong. This is why every arctic unit strips grease and oils out and runs dry or very thin lubes in actual cold weather.
>>29853940
You are under the assumption that I am gobbing grease onto the internals of my rifle then.
