F-16 vs F-15 in aerial dogfight...which would win ?
>>29817188
F-15
Probably the F-15
The F-16 was a low-cost alternative to it to begin with, and F-16 squadrons are reverting to F-15's as the USAF gets smaller.
F-16 is less heavier...so that's mean more maneuverability than F-15 ?
>>29817188
Whoever has the better pilot
F-15 is a superior aircraft though
>>29817211
Yea but still USAF own more f-16 than f-15's
>>29817188
it depends.
>>29817217
F-15 has more engine, better power-weight ratio
>>29817188
Pilot skill matters most but the F-15 has a definite advantage if the pilots are of equal skill.
>>29817188
But that's a Californian F-15!
But in all seriousness, I've heard that in a close, low altitude fight it goes to the 16, but in BVR it goes to the F-15.
>>29817299
What do you mean by more advantages ? if they are equipped with same missiles...i think the f-16 would be more nimble tho
>>29817188
Needs more parameters.
Loadouts? remaining fuel? initial engagement range? rules of engagement in effect?
>>29817357
The F-15 can fly much higher and it has a bigger radar. That means it can shoot missiles further. Now if the F-16 can manage to get up close without getting hit first then it will probably have an advantage due to superior maneuverability, but the F-15 is pretty maneuverable to.
Long-Range: advantage goes to F-15
Close-Range: advantage goes to F-16
All-Around: advantage goes to F-15
>>29817361
nationalities, C2, EW, experience levels, 4vX, terrain...
Hard to say. The F-16, stripped of weight, is a better dogfighter and in its early iterations had a better radar than the early F-15, but castrated out of any BVR features, as the BVR potential wasn't realized yet.
Before the AMRAAM age, I'd give it to the F-16. After that, BVR edge to the Eagle, and the dogfight would be a close match between the two.
Believe the f-15
It has a better radar and can fire missiles that lock on after launch.
>>29817481
the F-15's radome is bigger, so its radar has better resolution and can put out more power. simple physics.
and now that it's AESA it's even more better.
Western and Middle Eastern military sources monitoring the war in Syria, and networks monitoring Russian air force flights reported Wednesday afternoon that there was almost a clash earlier in the day between four Israeli F-15 fighters and two Russian Su-30 jets. The sources report that the Israeli warplanes, flying from the direction of the Mediterranean, approached Russia’s Hmeimim airbase near the Syrian city of Latakia. The Russian command scrambled two of their fighters. The sources report that after a short time in which there was concern that a confrontation between the Russian and Israeli air forces was about to occur, both groups of jets turned back. The Su-30s returned to the base, and the F-15s continued their flight.
How fucked were those Flankers if it went hot?
I've never seen the actual degrees per second of turn rate published for either jet when it's at its best cornering speed.
If my jet turns at 50 degrees per second and yours turns at 60 degrees per second, you should "walk" away from me in a turn...unless the speed we are flying at makes you bleed off airspeed. Then your turn rate will drop, and I'll catch you if we maintain the turn. So if I can force you to slow down that way, my plane could get the advantage in turn.
Suppose your plane rolls faster. There you are trying to regain the advantage. Your roll rate is much faster than mine, so you stop the "losing" strategy of matching turns, and you roll and pitch out of the geometric plane we were turning in. Now I'm no longer pointing at you and must match your roll to start pointing at you again.
This can go back and forth several times, and now you have angular separation. Time to dive and get some speed back, and then think about re-engaging.
All these reasons are why it's difficult to give a simple answer to these dogfight questions. What speed is the fight at ? What is my fuel load (wing loading). An "angles" fight or a zooming "energy" fight ?
>>29817590
+9000
>>29817521
But the early radar wasn't as good as the early F-16s, according to pilots that flew both. Doesn't really matter as at that time the Viper was not capable of firing radar seekers.
>>29817590
and that's assuming a perch setup. a high aspect fight with multiple merges is even more interesting as you transition between the one and two circle fights based on a giant game of "i'm better at ____ but you know that so you're going to counter with _______ which forces me to counter with ____".
>>29817562
Very
The F-16 does in fact have a tighter turn radius and higher roll rate than the Eagle, while the Eagle has a higher thrust to weight ratio and would own the vertical compared to the Vipers horizontal fight.
So the answer is, no one knows, go fuck yourself. Air combat is not black and white and has too many variables for shit X vs Y threads like this.
F-15 all day.
Larger radar gives the F-15 the first sight.
F-15 can carry 8 air to air missiles compared to the F-16's 6. Also more rounds for the Vulcan Cannon in the unlikely event it comes down to that, around 900 to 500.
Speed is life, and the F-15 is faster. Not only faster, but higher flying as well. This gives the F-15 a very large advantage.
Should the speed and altitude advantage be negated through a negligent pilot, the F-15s superior thrust to weight ratio, and fuel load, allows it to regain the advantage.
>>29817590
This guy knows his shit.
>>29817188
F-16 can out-turn it, F-15 can out-climb it, F-15 also can out-detect it.
If they start from far away, F-15 wins.
>>29817818
>F-15 all day.
You're an idiot, and just as you start to foam at the mouth, anyone who says
>F-16 all day
Would also, be an idiot
>OP asks about dogfight
>everyone posts about shit that has nothing to do with dogfights
Inb4 dogfights don't happen
>>29817188
In most red flag engagements, the F-16 tends to have the upper hand in dogfights.
The real question is F-35 vs F-22, who wins?
>>29817590
F-16 has higher instantaneous turn rate (assuming both loaded 2xAIM-9 only).
F-15 retains more energy in a long, turning fight (more thrust, larger wings).
If I had to choose one to be in, though, going into a random/unknown situation, I'd take the F-15.
>>29819578
F-22 all day long.
>>29819578
Depends on who is detected first.
>>29819758
F-22 doesn't have IRST, how will it spot a stealth plane?
>>29819780
Both planes won't spot each other until they're in dogfighting range, because the first one that turns on its radar loses.
At this point, the F-22 wins.
Seems relevant, a Super Hornet completely schooling an F-15.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icto81Z92fk
>>29819758
It really rustles jimmies when you point out the F-35 is a better BVR fighter than the F-22.
>>29819874
I don't think you comprehended the question.
>>29819952
Except the F-35 probably can't detect the F-22.
>>29817211
>F-16 squadrons are reverting to F-15's as the USAF gets smaller
>reverting
Are you sure it's not strike squadrons replacing ancient beat to shit F-16s with F-15Es?
>>29819925
not seeing any "completely schooling". looks like the super hornet was able to get into a few fleeting WEZ's after the first ditch, but in no way was able to get established in the control zone. the Super Bug driver only aligns POM once or twice, and the F-15 driver is usually changing the POM on him right as he's doing so. not sure what the setup for that engagement was, but it looked like a standard 6k or 3k defensive perch setup. in that case, the F-15 survived 540 of turn which is usually a "win" for the defensive fighter.
>>29819994
yup, because every single USAF F-15E is owned by an active duty squadron. the one reservist squadron, the 307th, flies with the FTU's.
>>29819874
ISRT will spot planes at medium ranges, essentially "BVR", whereas neither will see each other on radar.
>>29817295
However, the F-16 does have higher instantaneous and sustained turn rates. And it's smaller and thus harder to see, something which can't be understated in WVR combat.
In a "dogfight", an F-16 can give an F-15 a run for its money, and arguably has a higher chance of coming out on top. At longer ranges, the F-15 is likely to win.
The true answer to this thread is either of them. Both of them can and have won mock dogfights against the other. Both plane's pilots will point towards their craft as the superior.
>>29819968
The F-35 will detect an F-22 before an F-22 detects an F-35, be it by radar or the fact that only the F-35 has IRST.
>>29820216
i thought -220 motor C models could outrate most Vipers (not block 50/52's).
Su-27 destroys both
>>29820270
That's not my understanding, but I could be wrong. Could depend on the flight envelope.
>>29820276
Real life encounters notwithstanding.
>>29817188
Too vague.
What version of each plane, what altitude, what start conditions, loadouts, pilot skill, aircraft condition, weather, etc. All these have a significant effect.
