Where can I get real information about poisons?
There's very little information about them on the Internet, almost as if it's being deliberately repressed or censored. Specifically, I want to know if there are any poisons that are practical to use in a blowgun on a human target. I know things such as botulism, curare, dart frogs, and ricin could probably kill someone with a blowdart tipped in them, but how quickly? There is no real information or studies, just ignorant people talking with no evidence.
Is the idea that a dart can kill in under a minute just Hollywood bullshit, or can it really be done?
Hollywood.
They can kill, but not effectively stop an assailant immediately
>>29788901
VX is pretty fast. doubt you can get it though.
Also the way it kills is brutal, the guy will break his own spine basically.
Even with purity contents in some samples exceeding 97%, death is normally between 24 hours to 7 days.
The few "poisons" that have the Hollywood Death Syndrome are just pharmaceuticals that cause cardiac arrest.
"Where can I get real information..."
A lot of that information fell through the cracks after the revamp of the CIA in the 60's and the KGB in the late 90's. Because we have such a rapidly-expanding medical field, most basic concoctions can quickly be caught and expunged, or if not, put the body on stasis and clean out certain organs.
>>29789105
I can find lethal ones easily, but I am talking about effectively stopping an assailant in the course of a fight.
Can it be done at all?
>>29788921
What does VX stand for?
>>29789164
>What does VX stand for?
google VX (nerve agent)
Poisons are chemical substance so I guess a chem weapon would fit in.
>>29789164
Sure. If the assailant blunders and expose himself, don't let him poke you. Intravenous has always been the quickest method.
Although, I'm more curious as to why you think someone would try that in the first place...your regular Tyrone is just going to shoot you, and our (American) government is so corrupt that they'll just shoot you and claim suicide. A random ex-KGB will just feed you polonium.
>>29788921
>Also the way it kills is brutal, the guy will break his own spine basically.
>getting your information from michael bay movies
child pls
it's called WIKI you newfags
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_agent
POOR MANS JAMES BOND
IN YOUR BACKYARD RIGHT NOW THERE ARE ATLEAST THREE SPECIES OF POISONOUS PLANTS WHICH CAN KILL YOU
NICOTINE FOR EXAMPLE IS AN EXTREMELY POTENT POISON
YOU CAN ACTUALLY EXTRACT THE NICOTINE FROM A CAN OF SNUFF OR CHEWING TOBACCO AND USE IT ON THE SKIN TO KILL A MAN
I'm selling Sarin gas. I live in Tokyo, give me a shout if you're interested
>>29788901
>Is the idea that a dart can kill in under a minute just Hollywood bullshit, or can it really be done?
It may be possible, it's just spectacularly unlikley. Intravenous injections only take a few seconds to take effect, however getting an IV in can sometimes be tricky even if the person is sitting still and you have all the right kit. The chances of theowing a dart at someone and having it puncture one side of the vein and then stop without going theough the other are probably on a par with throwing two coins in the air and them both landing on their side, one on top of the other. You're much more likley to end up with an intramuscular injection, and those take several minuites to have an effect.
>botulism
Can be fatal, but you're looking at several days after exposure, not a few seconds.
>curare
I have no idea what this is.
>dart frogs
Watched a documentary about a herd of unga-bunga's who live in the jungle once, iirc the poison from a poison dart frog is a paralysing agent but won't actually kill you. That might be dose specific though, or I could just be wrong.
>ricin
Again, several days.
>>29789164
>What does VX stand for?
There are various "families" of nerve agents, and the V (which stands for "venomous") series are the newest and most potent family, with VX being the most potent of the series. The second letter just indentifies which on of the family that particular agent is: off the top of my head there is VE, VG, VM, and VX. I have a niggle there might be others, but it's a good twenty years since I left the army, so I'm a bit rusty on that kind of thing.
The way the V series work is by blocking the chemical pathways that allow your muscles to relax. So every time you make even the tiniest movement, those muscles tense up and stay tensed, with all subsequent movements just making them tighter and tighter. It also affects your heart, and your diaphragm too.
>>29789385
and here's a primary capture chemical if you're curious
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etorphine
Foxglove
Amanitas
Datura
Belladonna
Potato
Tobacco
Hemlock
All these can kill easy peasy lemon squeezy
You just might have to make a basic extract
>>29789416
Meet you at the subway station?
The CIA was revealed to have a dart gun that would shoot a needle of poison that put you in cardiac arrest. The dart itself was made from ice so it melted away.
>>29789428
Yeah, I'm gonna drop it by a trash can.
>>29788901
Isn't cyanide almost instantaneous?
>>29789432
In recent pop culture, used in the film The International
Nicotine extract can kill anyone with mere skin contact alone.
It is an untraceable poison and metabolizes before the person dies. The result is a heart attack like "natural causes."
Any residual nicotine would be written off as many people use tobacco products and the amount in your system would be miniscule, because it is quickly metabolized.
>>29789477
no, not really. Depending on the level of exposure, method of delivery, etc. A potassium cyanide kill is never instantaneous. The fabled cyanide capsule tooth was enough to deliver an agent from the hands of their captors. This method of suicide can take a few minutes & be rather unpleasant
>>29789537
UGH, lot of disinfo in this thread. buuUUUuut
Anyone have that picture of a dead poisoned guy? His back and most of his body is red as fuck, spooky
>>29788901
Very Fast Death Factor might be the closest that can deliver a hollywood level result.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoxin-a
>>29789506
>metabolized
How can it be processed by the body of it's dead?
>>29789427
Pretty much only the nicotine in the tobacco can kill near instantly when concentrated. The rest will all take a while.
>>29789615
Fuck. Every bit of the worm cult in Metro creeped me the fuck out. Shame they were entirely absent in the game.
>>29789506
Nicotine on the skin will break down, but detecting it (and its metabolites) in the blood of the victim is easy, amd there will be significantly more nicotine and metabolites than even if the person was a chain smoker. Also something being metabolised doesn't mean its gone. Its metabolites can usually be easily detected
>>29788901
Cone snail poison is about the only thing that anybody other than a toxicology lab could acquire or produce that kills even somewhat rapidly. And good luck finding enough cone snails to do more than a dart or two.
As for pharma that can do it:
>pure, liquid nicotine
Anywhere from 30 seconds to a few hours depending on whether you pierced a major vein or artery. But again, good luck refining it. Enough liquid nicotine to kill one adult male in good health within a day would require the harvesting and processing of about 6,000 acres of tobacco crops, or somewhere around 1.2 BILLION packs of Marlboro Reds.
>>29789408
No. No you can not. You couldn't get enough pure nicotine out of an entire roll of snuff to do more than flush a guy's skin.
There are people who dip entire cans at once and (other than probably eventually getting mouth cancer and losing their teeth) suffer no ill effects.
>>29789420
>dart frog poison paralytic
Yes. Also relatively minor, the idea is whatever eats them freezes up and either gets eaten itself or injures/kills itself due to falling/exposure because it can't fucking move any more.
Their poisons aren't strictly poison dart frog either. They basically ferment/rot other shit, then once they get a pretty foul concoction going, dump in a bunch of mushed frogs. They get a minor version of the paralytic effect, induce a septic wound, and possibly (depending on what went into the fermentation) other toxins (including botulinum).
They also tend to only hunt relatively small things with it. 15lb monkeys seem to be their primary target. They used bows and untipped arrows against people.
>>29790733
Wouldn't that be because of tolerance?
People can do a ton of heroin and not die because they've used so much before, that doesn't mean other people won't OD with the same amount
>>29791347
I don't think you understand tolerance. People wouldn't be dying of cancer if they grew a tolerance.
>>29792717
>Being this retarded
Just buy powdered caffeine and dump 5 tablespoons into a drink. That's all it takes
>>29792746
>5 tablespoons of a bitter powder into a drink
>That's all it takes
>>29788901
go down to costa rica and get some of these
rub the darts on their skin
enjoy poisoning things
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071847081/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3/190-2471250-8102838?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=16ST5E3GXXPNE3ET2H52&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687762&pf_rd_i=1465377182
>>29789164
> but I am talking about effectively stopping an assailant in the course of a fight.
Too much hollywood.
What you are looking for is an agent that would cause cell death or instantaneous crippling,
The act of crippling the targets musculature in such a rapid fashion means that the muscles in any surrounding tissue would die before any transmission to core organs
Belladona isn't too hard to find, and you could even buy it online.
You can buy some varieties of wolves bane/aconite/Týrs hood/"Queen of poisons" at many flower stores.
Castor Oil plants are often used in landscaping.
Foxglove is pretty common in gardens.
It's also worth pointing out that some of the chemicals from these are also used as medicines.
>>29793482
Belladona has been known to cause stiffness in the lower part of the body
>>29793496
It took me a while but I kek'd.
Now I gotta fap to the clip of her and Jenna Haze having fun.
Friendly reminder if you use poisons and chemicals to inflict harm or kill someone, you're the definition of a cowardly bitch and I would gladly put you down like a dog if I could.
Coming from someone who's been the target of chemical assaults and what could be considered non-lethal poisoning.
>>29793482
>It's also worth pointing out that some of the chemicals from these are also used as medicines.
okay ocelot
>>29789420
IM injections don't take much longer than IV to perfuse throughout the body.
Curare paralyzes skeletal muscle. In small dosages is/was used to paralyze a person for surgery. It causes respiratory failure from paralysis of the diaphram.
OP, if you could develop a dart capable of autoinjecting a large quantity of a poison like curare, you could paralyze and drop a person within a minute. Your best bet is probably a cocktail of 500mg curare for quick paralysis and alpha-amanitin, because a slow torturous death from the poison they didn't catch at the hospital the first time ensures he won't be back to rob your house.
>>29788901
There is literally all the information about poisons on the internet.
lrn2google 14 year old le edgy faggot.
>>29789105
Hydroflouric acid, chlorine triflouride, flourideantominic acid would all kill someone within a few minutes.
The book "Poison Arrows: North American Indian Hunting and Warfare" by David E. Jones might be of interest to you. Not big on blow darts perhaps, since those weren't a thing in the region (or so it seems to me at least), but it does look a lot into various poisons used against man and animal that take a bit less work to prepare than G or V series nerve agents.
Curare preparation and use can be seen here: https://youtu.be/hn8gk67s6YM?t=36m46s
Given that it takes multiple darts and a few hours to kill a 20lbs howler, the effect on human five to ten times that size will probably be somewhat limited.
A look at hunting poison preparation in the Kalahari: https://youtu.be/HFoRGZ8W2Po?t=28m16s
(Do ignore the "similar to a cobra or rattlesnake" bit, as that covers a huge range of effects, and I'm not sure if it's really accurate for any of them.)
Poison arrow hunting in Kenya, here too it takes hours for the poison to do it's work, and even then it isn't the final killer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4eRsBdvJj4
Overall it seems to me that with most of the poisons you'd be able to source from nature (without a well equipped lab, if you could make and purify things like botulin or tetanotoxin then you have something that makes VX and friends look outright benign) things like arrow poisons will seldom be reliable killers of humans in themselves, the amount of poison you can reliably deliver is simply too small, and for combat the process will be much too slow to be much good.
Instead it's an extra bit of lethality added onto the arrow, the main work done being simply the arrow-wound itself, and the poison then ensure that some extra percentage die in the long run.
This means blow darts, with significantly less ability to create a significant wound than bow and arrow, and less ability to carry poison, may struggle against humans if traditional poisons are all that's availible.
>>29789189
You didn't read my question right, retard. I want to research ways of doing it myself, not protect myself against it.
>>29789420
Curare is a paralyzing agent. Don't know the chemicals exactly, but it's very common in many plants in the Amazon, some experts claim if you boil down a mix of leaves and plant matter from any 20 plants from that rainforest, you'll get a crude but usable curare. Used by tribes to hunt monkeys mostly.
It kills the target simply by paralyzing the muscles that allow them to breathe. They did a study in the Army, a few volunteers took it. As long as you keep pumping air into their mouth, the victim will be fine, and recover after a while.
>>29789408
This guy is a tard but he brings up a good question. Do effective contact poisons exist?
As in, effective enough that you can paint some on an item like a pen, and the next person to pick up the pen will be killed by the poison? Time to take effect doesn't matter in this case.
I don't have much hope that this is real, but I read about the idea in a fiction book and to be honest it made me a little hard.
>>29795802
I guess I am a cowardly bitch. I like sniping, poisons, nerve gas, drones, and Cong level booby traps. Whatever, man, brave people get rekt by charging in to gas and traps every day. My way wins.
Out of curiosity, what chemicals were used against you, and how?
>>29790719
hmm. Could you maybe distill it from e-cig juice? And would you be able to put enough of a dose on one dart?
I've heard of criminals in prison using a combination of nicotine and shit, stewed for a few days, as a poison, but I don't think it's meant for the nicotine to do the poison on its own, I think it's supposed to induce sepsis.
>>29789427
I know that, but all of them require too large a dose to be effective on a dart. I'm not an idiot, if I was just looking for poisons to hide in food I could have 20 good ones brewed up already, the Internet has plenty of info there.
>>29799301
I doubt anything like that exists. It'd have to be preposterously potent, since there won't be much on the pen to begin with, there won't be any mechanism really working to get it off the paint and into your body, and the skin exists specifically to keep shit you don't want from getting into your body. So the dosis will be next to nothing. If that's enough to kill, then the minuscule amounts you inhale form evaporation or flaking off as dust may be what kills you, or ingested material that comes off your hands and somehow into your mouth/on your food, rather than the directly absorbed amount.
>>29799296
>but it's very common in many plants in the Amazon, some experts claim if you boil down a mix of leaves and plant matter from any 20 plants from that rainforest, you'll get a crude but usable curare.
This tells us that curare isn't a specific poison, but a name used for a wide range of different paralysing neurotoxins. Hell, many of those plants probably contain multiple toxins in themselves.
>>29799335
We're probably looking at a millilitre of absolutely pure nicotine to have a good chance of getting the job done. Making that much stay on a dart, but come off in a hurry after it hits, nah. And your shit won't be pure. You may end up inhaling enough to leave life long damage on your nervous system trying to purify it though.
>I think it's supposed to induce sepsis.
Nicotine?
Yeah, sure.
But maybe the inmate might think it will. It ain't Med School exactly in there. In reality they probably aren't doing anything more than just tossing everythign harmful they can find into the pot, and hoping for the worst. They probably don't have entirely free access to whatever chemicals they'd fancy in there.
>>29799449
>contact poisons
That's disappointing. I knew it wasn't likely, but damn, the idea made me happy.
>curare
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curare#Preparation
I'm lacking the chemistry knowledge to make much sense of it, but the general idea is, it's one family of chemicals called alkaloids, that just happen to be very common in rainforest plants.
>sepsis
That was just a rumor, no real evidence on that. But when I said "nicotine and shit", I wasn't being vague. I actually meant nicotine, and human shit. I've heard a few people say prisoners do that.
