![1461851726366[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QPOB9Ac.jpg "1461851726366[1].jpg")
So this is what its come to, they did some training where they allowed the EMTs to carry weapons and defend themselves alongside Law Enforcement officers and they did some solo training for situations where they would not have law enforcement back up.
EMTs going to be walking around with glocks on their hips soon.
x-post from the /pol/ thread: >>>/pol/72325953
![1461851757941[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/aBYHS17.jpg "1461851757941[1].jpg")
>>29767354
.
![1461851847862[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/a82LNml.jpg "1461851847862[1].jpg")
>>29767354
..
![1461852399601[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pGZnsij.jpg "1461852399601[1].jpg")
>>29767354
...
![1461852445072[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZZPftyV.jpg "1461852445072[1].jpg")
>>29767354
....
![1461852617439[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/f7xeWCe.jpg "1461852617439[1].jpg")
>>29767354
.....
Neat
![IMG_8429[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/j6xfRvS.jpg "IMG_8429[1].jpg")
>>29767392
What do you think of EMTs using force?
![1461852326508[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/kJc3hSR.jpg "1461852326508[1].png")
>>29767354
......
>>29767398
If EMTs need to use force, they should use it
Anyone who attacks first responders needs to be executed on the spot
![1461852270873[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/udoZgyy.jpg "1461852270873[1].png")
>>29767354
.......
>>29767419
*cough*Justice4jarjar*cough*
![1461852168655[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Gl1ATel.jpg "1461852168655[1].png")
>>29767354
I can't tell if this guy has good trigger discipline.
![1461852031279[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/AV5ys80.jpg "1461852031279[1].png")
>>29767354
.........
I think it is a bad day when the EMT's need to be armed.
What shit bags attack the medical personnel?
I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to protect themselves, just that it is bad that they need to.
>>29767354
cue "nothing bullets cannot cure" patch here
>>29767460
>What shit bags attack the medical personnel?
Niggers.
>>29767460
Everybody attacks us. I've been bitten by hobos, kicked by crackheads and punched in the nuts by senile grandmothers. Literally everybody hits us. If they're a legitimate threat and I can get away from them, I do. If I can't, I beat the living shit out of them.
I don't carry a gun, though. I don't really want to, either. I have enough to worry about without dealing with some shithead grabbing my piece in the back of a tiny ambulance while I'm busy starting his IV or setting up a 12 lead.
>>29767354
there is nothing wrong with this. It's always been fucking retarded that ems had to hide and wait outside of a scene to come in and pick up wounded suspects and officers while the area was literally crawling with police. combat medics in EMS when.
>>29767486
>not carrying in a retention holster
>>29767354
Happening soon, fellow stalkers?
>>29767460
niggers and spics in ubran areas often shoot at EMS and fire personnel. entire blocks have burned down because a firefighter got shot while responding.
>>29767500
I don't need a gun. If you threaten me on scene, I leave. If you threaten me in the back of an ambulance, I leave. If you get in my way, I will hurt you.
>>29767354
The picture is why I want women out of EMS. They are quite literally all useless.
>>29767507
Then they claim racism because the white man won't come to their neighborhood to save their house.
>>29767484
Always niggers.
>>29767486
I was never an EMT, my wife was. She didn't have any problems but then we are in backwoods PA and it is white as fuck up here.
I worked in our local hospital for awhile as security. Worse people I had to deal with were drunk college kids that came up to the country from places like NYC and Philly. Yes most were minorities.
>>29767552
We could probably use something like this in Australia
Rural nurses have a habit of getting kidnapped and murdered.
>>29767460
I live in MD and two of my EMT friends were just shot by some crazed diabetic-shock motherfucker. One died.
Yeah they need to be armed. They enter dangerous situations and a gun is another useful tool in the kit.
There is exactly no reason why a firearm cannot be another tool first responders are allowed to use.
I'm so happy I finally get to post this.
>>29767843
Same shit happens to EMT in UK and Australia. Difference is in population.
and the difference is that they are not allowed to fight back for ridiculous illogical kneejerk reasons.
have fun I certainly hope you 'feel' safe.
>>29767843
Nice memes
atleast the united states doesn't neuter their first responders like the eurotrash nations.
if you are entering a dangerous situation it makes sense to have a firearm, no?
Even here in chinkland many first responders have firearm as an option.
get over your hoplophobia shitlord
>>29767872
Why would an EMT enter a dangerous situation? If the situation is dangerous EMS wait outside while cops make it safe, its their job.
>>29767887
many times the EMS has to wait around while police get there.
sometimes too late to save whomever made the call or is the victim.
what is wrong with giving options to make first responders more effective at their jobs?
there is literally no good reason
other than some irrational fear of anyone who isnt a cop being trained in firearms
>>29767370
>hmph bill has such as nice
>i cant stop staring at it, laqueefa
I am irrationally fascinated by this.
It's right out of my mercenary-medic fantasies.
>>29767354
Black lady: OH Hell no mmm mmm baby you aint gittin away come get some
Older white lady: oh my I sure hope those bullets dont hurt the poor guy, how horrifying
>>29767380
>look at his junk!
EMT here, not so sure this is really a good idea. Working hand in hand with police to defend us is better than us having to defend ourselves. A cop's job is reading dangerous situations, mine is attempting to save people no matter who they are.
If I'm working on someone that requires 100% of my focus. I shouldn't be carrying a weapon if I need to be that focused on something else.
They look like they're trying to storm Normandy in modern times.
>>29767552
Are you in ems?
>>29767702
One of them is clearly about to fire on a target. You can't shoot with your finger off the trigger.
>>29767927
>>29767992
"They may take our lives, but they'll never take....our first aid kits!!! Unleash the RPGs!"
>>
what is wrong with giving options to make first responders more effective at their jobs?
Most EMTS are egotistical shit lords who can't do their jobs properly anyway, why would you think giving them a gun would be a good idea?
>>29768023
Rude
>>29767905
Because priority number 1 always has to be not ending up a patient yourself. If I went in to a dangerous situation and started working someone up who is going to cover me?
>>29767982
>>29768031
You deserve it.
Richmond county Ga deputy here (Augusta) we have a problem with blacks hurting our EMTs because of drugs and gang problems they call EMS and hurt them or try to rape/kill the women EMTs, The deputies near the public housing downtown usually are on foot or bikes due to the mayors bullshit community policing campaign so we cannot respond that fast or escort them anymore. :( feels bad
>>29768281
How do you feel about your EMTs carrying guns?
>>29767872
Canada or China?
>>29768325
This we need answers
>>29767946
Different EMT here. While I respect your opinion, I disagree. I wouldn't mind being allowed to CC while at work. While it is always better to have police pull scene security, I don't see the problem with having the option to be armed
>>29767552
But bruh, women are arguably better at patient care than men. And I'm an EMT. You underestimate just how fucking knowledgeable and experienced they can be.
>>29767826
Honestly the idea of an EMT being able to enter a residence without permission, and potentially being able to gun someone down for not complying really bothers me.
Might just be because of my mistrust of police, but I really don't want to add EMTs to that list
>>29767359
>>29767370
Dis dude actually has pretty good posture
>>29768428
So how is this gonna work?
>EMTs show up to pick up someone
>they have to gun down three dudes to do it
Do they then call in more EMTs?
>>29768659
The cycle never ends.
>>29767427
JAFAR DINDU NUFFIN
>>29767460
Degenerates, usually. Blacks, drug addicts, etc..
The EMT in my city are given Level 3A body armor, but are not allowed to carry weapons. I believe they actually have a higher rate of injuries inflicted by civilians than cops in my city.
>>29767826
Source, please.
>>29768644
Are you in ems?
>>29768428
Maybe at bedside manners, but I don't see how women are better at providing actual medical treatment.
>>29768644
it's not about knowledge man, it's about the wannabe mother feel
>aw you got a booboo
>here's a candy for the good boy
>and now a morphine up your ass
>>29768711
And I don't see how they're worse. What does gender have to do with medical knowledge and ability to follow protocol?>>29768711
>>29767354
>>29767359
>>29767370
>>29767380
>>29767388
>>29767410
>>29767421
>>29767434
>>29767445
Paintball player here:
Where in the fuck are their masks? It's extremely dangerous to get hit in the ears or eyes by .60 cal balls moving at ~300 fps. Even the rest of the face can get seriously damaged by impact.
>>29767354
In a perfect world, yes. EMT's shouldn't need firearms.
We don't live in a perfect world, anon. It's not even a kind world that we live in. EMT's are often shit on by the very people they help. First responders are often attacked, and the people doing it don't give a rotten fuck about the consequences.
If they want to carry firearms, more power to them. Do I agree with it? No. Do I recognize that it's their right to choose? Absolutely. God forbid we ever live in a country where EMT's and other life savers don't have the choice to defend themselves.
Get your head out of your ass, anon. Nothing works as intended.
>>29767460
Im from one of the smaller areas around Augusta. Everyone knows that there is a decent sized case of Detroititis in south Augusta. Used to be a manufacturing town but not much anymore, and now every white person avoids everything but a very small strip of downtown. From what I've seen and the constant 'dont stop until you hit north augusta' going around I can easily see why EMT's which are mostly based around hospitals adjacent to the ghettos would need guns.
>>29768705
Yes. I'm a paramedic. I have about 20 years experience in EMS.
Guns on medics is a shit idea in like 99.99999% of situations.
>>29767905
Great because of some fuckheads we need Pjs and SARCs to do basic EMT jobs.
Thats fucked up.
I'm already trusting the EMT with my life, why should I be worried if they're carrying a gun? As long as they have whatever qualifications necessary to concealed carry in that state, I see no problem with this.
>>29768996
Why do you "want women out of ems"
Medic-fag here. I don't want EMS to start carrying guns for a simple reason. We'd get confused with cops. I can more or less go anywhere in town and people are happy to see me (maybe not when the cops ask me to go with them). If EMS starts carrying guns, eventually an EMT/Paramedic will shoot someone. And then I'm going to become a cop in a weird uniform.
Plus given the stupidly low threshold to get into this business, I'm not at all confident that most EMTs could handle the responsibility.
If you give EMT'S firearms, they're just a fucking cop in an ambulance at that point. Half the reason people trust us more than cops is because were NOT COPS. We render aid, we don't hurt or detain people. Anyone who says otherwise is a shit EMT or isn't an EMT at all.
>>29768829
They had guys without paintball guns attacking them that had masks on. But yes eyepro and facepro should be a must
>>29768302
need training for the situations, other than that I am fine with it
>>29767354
good, EMTs are first responders. They should be able to defend themselves. I think Firefighters should have as shotgun or rifle stowed on their truck
>>29769234
>I think Firefighters should have as shotgun or rifle stowed on their truck
FUCKING WHY. WHO THE HELL DOES ONE FIND IN A BURNING BUILDING THAT WANTS TO DO HARM TO YOU?
>>29769251
Ask Filipinos. They give their firemen camouflage. There's probably some shit going on inside Filipino fires that makes them want to blend in.
>>29769251
Firefighters get shot at. More commonly than you'd think. Seriously. They respond to the same stuff cops and EMT's do.
>>29769251
In NYC some guy set off a smoke bomb in his house to lure first responders there and he shot at least one of the firemen non fatally.
Firefighter/paramedic and kommando. Leave your guns at home.
>>29769269
Getting ready to fight the four horsemen.
>>29769251
because >>29769305
and maybe a shotgun for breaching doors where they cant swing an axe.
>>29769305
And if they're focused on doing their job, a weapon will only get in the way. on top of putting on bunker gear, dragging hose etc, now you want a guy to carry a shotgun (cause if it's sitting in the engine, what good is that if they take fire?). Do they bring it into every call? Do they sling it after they decide there's no danger? Or waste time on scene taking it back to the truck? It makes no sense.
Same Augusta Sheriffs deputy, you guys have no idea how bad it is for the Gold cross EMS guys here, they usually get assaulted once a week by some nigger with a hipoint and its getting to the point where we cannot escort the EMT's to every fucking call due to the fact our Mayor is a piece of shit and wants to make us all community police the downtown area and shoot hoops with little jamal and improve our image because were are too tough and the Sheriff thinks he is retarded...there is a power struggle going on since Deke Copenhaver left as mayor of the city and in less than 2 years the new mayor has DESTROYED the city with scandals aand clearing out all the money we saved up over the past 8 plus years and blew it on parties and armored Mayor SUV's
>>29769305
>Firefighters get shot at. More commonly than you'd think.
Link me 5 news stories within the past 12 months of a firefighter getting shot at.
>>29769371
you do know that there are always FF around the truck because, you know, its like, kinda what HAS THE HOSES ATTACHED TO IT.
If something happens to the squad inside they can radio out for assistance.
>>29769394
>>29769371
its better than having to wait 20 min for the cops to show up
>>29769394
There are always police at fires for crowd control, your idea is bad the three emergency services are separate for a reason.
>>29769418
in a town near Augusta named Aiken the Fire and police ems are the same service, they are all three cross trained and are pretty good at what they do, they still rely on the Richmond county GA Sheriffs for the weekend patrol of the stripclubs in ton and dance clubs.
>>29769371
Why not arm all of them? Or have one designated guy? It's not exactly hard to carry a shotgun on a sling.
Also, >>29769370
A shotgun can be used in many, many instances much quicker and easier than an axe.
>>29769388
http://www.firefighternation.com/article/firefighter-safety-health/what-we-can-do-about-violence-against-firefighters
Go fuck yourself.
Shotguns can be used to breach doors.
>>29768829
/asp/ie
>>29769388
Not that guy:>>29769305, but here you go
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Firefighter-Shot-Prince-Georges-County-Released-From-Hospital-376857561.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/s-firefighter-shot-man-wanted-u-s-marshals-article-1.2325596
>>29769418
Actually police are being trained to do more and more EMS/Firefighter stuff. And EMS and Firefighters are being trained to do more, traditionally police, stuff. Like working traffic after wrecks, and being involved in active shooter training.
They are separate because they used to be more specialized. But now with technology and crime AND disasters/accidents themselves changing, they are overlapping more and more.
In the academy, I had to learn how to do a shitload of EMS bullshit, including using tourniquets, how to stabilize people, etc. . Hell, Cops have delivered babies before.
>>29768530
Where the fuck do you get this idea they will be shooting people for not complying? Are you retarded?
>>29768530
I don't think EMTs give many orders, if you're in need of an EMT, I don't think you'd argue with them very much either.
ALSO
>what is training?
>>29769436
>published April 20, 2010
I said 5 articles within the past year, not one from 6 years ago. If it's really as bad as you say then you should have no trouble finding dozens of recent stories considering firefighters have been dispatched to literally millions of calls in that timeframe.
>>29769544
Why does it matter the time frame? It still happens. I'm not spoonfeeding you stuff. You sit in front of a magical box filed with all the information in the world.
Ignorance is literally a choice for you right now.
>>29769499
>>29769530
I think this guy described my concerns a little better
>>29769121
>>29769487
>one firefighter killed the other severely wounded during a wellness check because he thought they were burglars, HD has not been charged with a crime
So you want to arm firefighters so they can kill someone for legally enforcing the castle doctrine?
Is that really what you're saying?
>>29769556
You made the claim, you back it up.
I have two questions for EMS workers:
1) Do you think you could comfortably and effectively carry concealed while in uniform with all your gear?
2) If not, what considerations should be made for how people might react to seeing EMS open carrying handguns on their hips? Rights to defense aside (I fully agree, btw) we know that people can be highly irrational, especially in stressful situations.
Seems to me EMS should be allowed to decide for themselves whether they want to carry, like any other citizen of the USA.
>>29769562
Mkay then. It just seems pretty weird to be afraid of someone carrying a gun, who is obviously a stable individual who is there to help you, and carries a gun for the same reason you would, which is protection.
Also to possibly save your ass sooner rather than later in a bad situation.
>>29769595
Nope. I'm going to let you sit in ignorance, because you want to move goal posts based on an arbitrary time frame you posted...despite firemen and EMTs both being just as, if not more at risk of being assaulted, than police.
Simple solution to this issue. I've been a medic for 3 years and haven't had one situation where a gun would've have solved any problem. We work directly with the police. If the call has ANY suspicion of danger they respond with us and we wait for them.
If a patient decides to randomly get violent, we should be able to subdue them on our own, or worst case scenario we could use a taser.
>>29769584
You asked for an example of a firefighter getting shot. Not the circumstances surrounding it.
>>29769109
>>29769121
This is a good point, they will go from being traveling doctors to that other kind of cop in some peoples eyes
![376001ad192a6aec06a18777ccb8b70a[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8OtkXro.jpg "376001ad192a6aec06a18777ccb8b70a[1].jpg")
>>29768996
I am a paramedic and this statement is very inaccurate, I carry 24/7 and the only time I have to take my weapon off is when I leave it in my pick up truck and jump on my rig for my shift.
One of my supervisors thought it was hilarious for him and buddy to dress up as ISIS guys and attack the station house in the middle of the night, no one was ready and they barrel swept everyone in the building (13 people) with bright orange toy AK 47s, I've never had a bigger pit in my stomach than to imagine that 2 guys could have snuck into my workplace and killed everyone and while hiding in the bathroom I could have at least mounted some kind of defense from getting killed.
This is the year 2016 and all humans deserve some chance at defending themselves from being killed.
>>29769121
Great point until you are bleeding to death on the ground and the other EMTs can't help you because muh scene safety.
>>29767354
Where you been? Some states already allow and companies.
>>29767539
>If you get in my way, I will hurt you.
Woah. Watch out guys.
>>29767354
Bad idea...
Here are a couple reasons, I have also attached some form of proof as I always imagine in these threads I am talking to a bunch of children and or wannabees.
>>29767419
You have never met the fresh EMT with an ego.
>>29767460
Happens all the time, but there are ways to deal with it that are non-violent. Reality is not like the movies.
>>29767826
Scene safety. This is not a common occurrence and I question how this happened. Your XYZ relative who is dead or dying on the floor of the kitchen is not my problem if I get a bad feeling.
>>29767905
So we are now in addition to all our other specialties, also supposed to kick down doors and clear rooms? You are delusional and have no idea what it takes to be an EMS worker.
>>29768281
So they need to not respond. There is no constitutional guarantee that modern EMS arrives at your door in under 8 minutes. That is just an industry standard we have made upon ourselves. If crews stopped responding on grounds of danger, the phones are going to start ringing and things will change.
>>29769109
Hit every nail on the head. Thing is, anyone can be an EMT it is a first aid card. While EMS workers reside on a spectrum to include physicians, nurses, paramedics, EMTs and other allied healthcare, the last thing we need is a dumb ass making a bad call and bringing the industry as a whole down.
As it stands Paramedics and Firefighters are some of it not the most trusted professions in the USA. You have no idea what its like until you've done it. There are no questions asked. Peoples homes, banks, secure facilities, ect. I can walk wherever I want. It allows me to do my job. We break that trust and we are over.
>>29769493
WOW! So EMS!... Please tell me how police are trained to manage aortic balloon pumps, vents, blood products, antibiotics, perform surgical airways, utilize portable labs, perform conscious sedation, RSI, intubation, the list goes on.
You don't know EMS, you know first aid.
>>29769644
>despite firemen and EMTs both being just as, if not more at risk of being assaulted, than police.
lmfao
>>29769807
Continued on this
Paramedic here
We use force usually on psych patient that are having an episode
BUT not like POLICE RESISTANCE non sense.
We use force on quacked out drug addicts...except pcp/angel dust. Then it gets real scary and dangerous. I been apart of one. 110 girl wrecking grown men. We ended up breaking her arms in the struggle. Of course it did nothing to stop her.
This whole gun stuff. Medic are seen as neutral to niggers and a way to get out of getting arrested.
The moment we are open carrying or even concealed, we'll get more trouble than we deserve and become a target. On top of that, we just have to many psych and quacked out druggies as frequent flyers. Too much of a liability.
Not sure if any of you been inside of an ambulance but 21 foot rule its cut down to 21 inches between you and the patient.
How is a gun going to help anyone?
Also I work in the shitcago region/northwest Indiana.
>i do keep my gun in my laptop case though :^)
>I have stayed behind in a ambulance that was broke down on state line in Gary.
>Company had a few ambulance stolen huehue
>>29769807
Kentucky
Ohio
Georgia
Virginia
EMTs/FF/Paramedics from Pennsylvania brought firearms to conceal carry when they went to assist NJ during Hurricane Sandy.
Alaska and Texas are well known for first responders concealed carrying without authorization.
>>29769846
Where do you pack your humongous vagina when you go on 911 calls?
>>29769882
Alaska here.
Can't speak for Texas, but in Alaska even in Anchorage, our biggest city, wildlife can be a real concern.
There are feral two legged predators as well, of course.
>>29769912
Thing is, I didn't get into the business of EMS and Firefighting to be a dick or to wave a gun around. I did it to help the communities I have worked in and keep them in one piece and safe as well as improve upon them.
Guns are fun, guns are cool, guns are a tool and needed in life. Working at the station? Not one of those places.
>>29767905
If there's a car accident, patient is visible unresponsive but there's cocaine in the truck spewing out.
Fire Fighter
Police
Paramedic
All show up, who has zero control of the scene???
Police don't
Im the faggot shitcago medic, In an emergency here's the totem pole Firefighter>EMS>Poilce
Poilce are crowd control 90% of the time UNLESS there's an active shooter/armed suspect at the scene.
Only one who can prevent us from doing anything is firefighter because they all of sudden overrule and say SCENE IS UNSAFE.
>>29769937
Sorry but you are wrong.
It is a right to carry a concealed weapon and all you are doing is interjecting your opinion where it is putting lives at risk.
>>29769948
How long have you been on the medic unit? How many sleepless nights have you been on the engine, or ladder?
I get a feeling you either have no idea what you are talking about, or you are really green.
Lets talk about "RIGHTS" with "RIGHTS" come responsibilities.
One of those responsibilities is weapon retention. I carry off duty and am anal about where my gun is and who has access to it, as is appropriate. I don't let threats get close to me and will even make a conscious decision to move when someone gets close and within grabbing distance at the checkout line (even though there is no possible way they know I am carrying as I do it well).
Ever worked 24 hour straight? Had multiple uniform changes? Slept in a station that has multiple entrances and numerous people moving in and throughout the night. Ever have to throw your clothes in a bag and jump into bunker gear?
There is no way you can safely carry a handgun in the EMS world at any capacity. If you do, you change your priorities and are not not focused on your job, but rather your weapon.
Please prove me wrong though. Where do you work? Where have you worked?
>>29769846
>"YOU DON'T KNOW EMS YOU KNOW FIRST AID"
Well...yeah, hence me saying we've had to learn more and more of it. Which is just meaning, police are having to get more and more involved in medical aspects of emergencies. We have officers who voluntarily went and learned how to give IV's and if need be open airways and stuff. I won't be surprised when it becomes required. As of now we are required to know how to use tourniquets (which is not something police have ever been taught to do, uniformly in my state.) And our medical training hours have been bumped up every year.
Why are you a huge faggot? Most EMTs I know are pretty cool dudes that aren't huge faggots that get offended when I point out Police having to take part in more medical stuff, which is a fact.
Man, whoever pissed in your cheerios is a jerk. I'd be mad to bro, but you don't have to be such a hamwallet over it.
![hqdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4idckE6.jpg "hqdefault[1].jpg")
>>29769994
Check this out guys, this is typical burnout medic shit.
He starts with "HOW LONG YOU BEEN DOING TEH JOB YOUNG MAN?"
Eat a dick you old fogey, no one gives a shit about how long your been a medic or how low/high your medic number is.
People are dying out there, patients, responders, cops, etc. You don't get to say "Well most EMTs are shite, so fuck it, they can't carry." They can carry and a lot do, some even do it ilegally.
You need to get your head out of your ass and get with the times, we are going to need your steady hands someday and your bullshit "EMTs don't need guns" rhetoric isn't going to come in handy when shit really hits the fan.
If EMTs want to carry, they can get training, no problem, they can even pay for the training out of pocket, just don't get jelly when you hear about how one saved his own life with a piece that he bought with his own money.
>>29770015
I can start an IV, I am now a doctor.
That is pretty much how you "sound".
Stop bitching and moaning and stop claiming our worlds are "coming together". The public safety professional model is not new and it has always sucked. I have had friends and mentors who have worked in systems that utilize a single professional for fire/ems/police. It was actually kind of a big deal in California for a while. Our worlds cross over because an emergency is generic and often involves multiple services. Requiring cops to know first aid, is not a "merging" of worlds any more than the fire/ems side learning how to do warm zone operations in a tactical situation.
If they start teaching me how to write tickets, I'd agree with you at that point.
>>29769994
/thinks a bit
What about a shoulder rig with one of those locking holsters? Maybe just for one member of the crew. Is there someone that sits up front with the driver...?
![lcp-extension-closedgrip[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hQhfu99.jpg "lcp-extension-closedgrip[1].jpg")
>>29770059
I can't find a place to stow my gun guys.
Call me a faggot but I'm against EMS being issued firearms. The main reason why ghetto rats target EMT's/FF/Paramedics is because they think they are police or believe that EMT's are going to arrest them because they are hyped on too much drugs.
Arming those emergency services is only going to cause more problems in ghettos. If a dude wants to get a CCP and do it on his own accord go ahead. Though we should not be issuing firearms to emergency services, they are not PJ's.
>>29769994
>Ever worked 24 hour straight?
Yes...
>Had multiple uniform changes
I mean, I guess so. But even then I don't see how that factors into anything.
>Slept in a station that has multiple entrances and numerous people moving in and throughout the night
Well, yeah actually.
>Ever have to throw your clothes in a bag and jump into bunker gear?
Define this "bunker gear".
>Please prove me wrong though. Where do you work? Where have you worked?
Well, I was a cop and had to drive an hour to the town I worked in. I often ended up sleeping at the station because my shift, which was 12 hours, went into 16-24 hours. I was allowed to go crash on a couch in the middle of the station.
And I guess I had a lot of uniform changes, I'd show up in workout gear, get changed into my uniform. But that's two.
Also, for anyone who has been in the military, literally everything you listed off as "so hard that I can't carry" is daily life. Just sayin'
>>29770094
Yea I don't care if you break the law, just don't try to break the law by killing me and I won't have to pull out my holdout piece and help your brain get oxygen from the atmosphere faster.
>>29770059
Officer is always front passenger. In the case of a Medic Unit its usually the medic. Grandma on the floor is not going to feel comfortable with a gun in her face, neither is the business owner who runs up to the engine and makes contact with the officer as he/she gets information on the actively burning structure.
The EMT driving the ambulance or other medic? Actively working on the scene. The Engineer driving the engine? Jumping out to set up a water supply, set up the pumper, grab ladders and tools.
There is no one "idle" in the fire/ems world when shit does hit the fan. While it doesn't hit the fan all the time, what are you going to do when it does and now you have to baby sit a firearm?
What happens when you have to swap out firefighters. Now you have to ditch a gun. What happens when you have to get close to that potential threat to assess them and administer a medication.
Lets be honest... Shoving a syringe up a heroine addicts nose is fucking dangerous.
If I didn't want to do it, I wouldn't have become a Paramedic. If you don't accept the risks, find another job.
![9bdb45abaee2b80dd90a09fdb4e811cc[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0sPP6ho.jpg "9bdb45abaee2b80dd90a09fdb4e811cc[1].jpg")
>>29770127
my gun is too big guys
>>29770057
I never said I was a doctor, or that I could be an EMT. I'm saying that I've had to do stuff that was traditionally seen as an EMT's job, and I've seen EMTs doing stuff that was traditionally a cop's job. Like directing traffic, and being part of active shooter drills and learning how to do "tactical" stuff such as extracting people as police cleared rooms. Have you done any of that?
Maybe not, but I bet you will at some pint. I'm not bitching. I literally pointed out my observations, and you had an autistic breakdown.
>>29770111
You are a cop, not a firefighter or EMS worker. This is the point. You don't know shit.
Let me tell you how to write a ticket, because I am a firefighter and I see those cops writing tickets, so this makes me a fucking expert.
You don't even know what bunker gear is and yet you claim to have all the answers about firefighters and EMS workers carrying weapons.
Lawdy... this is why I don't participate in these threads and always regret it when I do.
Please tell me how you are going to get out of a Class B (with a CCW). Secure your weapon, jump into your bunker gear, and be on the apparatus in under 2 minutes.
>>29768702
>>29767826
lol were they those tards that did a welfare check and didn't announce themselves so the old fucker shot them once his windows were broke?
because a megaphone would have saved their lives, not a glock fodee.
>>29770057
80% of any job is basic bitchwork.
Stop getting so worked up about a street meat beater taking 80% of your job.
>>29770170
neat
>>29769994
Then have a designated armed person in the crew. Not everyone needs to be armed. One person with a gun is a force multiplier. If the threat is bigger than that then you guys are going to fall back anyway.
>>29770191
One little fire department that is probably volunteer allows weapons and that is "PROOF" that this a good idea.
Get back to me when FDNY starts carrying AR15s. Or a whole host of actual departments that actually do work.
>>29770195
Its called a police officer....
Plus staffing models vary, you may not have dedicated companies (you 4 are on engine today, you are on ladder, you are aid car) Many houses and stations divy up the work load.
>>29770170
>HAVE YOU EVER DONE WHAT I'VE HAD TO DO?!?!?"
>"Well, yeah..."
>YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT"
I just pointed out, once again, that police have to do medical stuff, and EMTs encounter situations where they have to do "police stuff".
Carrying a gun, when you are trained to use a gun, is just second nature. I'm saying it's possible to carry as a fireman or EMT, if you are allowed to do so voluntarily. You're literally giving excuses at this point as to why you can't carry, as if it applies to every person, ever.
You gave excuses, asked us to match you, I did, but because my job is different you had another fit. Why?
![8d0[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hX5sfrs.jpg "8d0[1].jpg")
>>29770208
>Get back to me when FDNY starts carrying AR15s
Wow and this whole time I thought we were talking about open carrying RPG-7s and Light Anti-Tank Weapons.
>>29770220
Then have an officer ride in the ambulance. It's already been mentioned that you guys sometimes don't go to treat a patient because a squad car hasn't arrived yet.
>>29770127
Hm. Okay then. How about a handgun in the cab in a locked box bolted to the dashboard?
I'm needling, just all for you guys having whatever you think you need.
>>29770245
Not that anon, but where I live we do that sometimes. But it's not exactly always a good idea to have every Ambalamps carrying a cop, who would otherwise be on patrol. And unless you can put a cop in every ambulance, what's the point?
Taking X amount of officers off of patrol can also be not so good as well.
>>29770272
>Taking X amount of officers off of patrol can also be not so good as well.
Didn't mean to say the same thing twice.
Why don't you put:
1 police officer
1 EMT
1 Fire Fighter
1 Attorney
* In an ambulance
And send that crew to everything.
>>29769721
And the circumstances showed everything wrong with your idea.
>>29770245
officer? I am so confused. Police officer or officer as in Captain or LT when I referred to staffing models and who sits up front.
You can't just have a fire officer (organizational position) run on every call. So if your model is to have them as the armed person, it is pointless.
>>29770305
As funny as that would be, they'd all have to know how to do everything equally well, or you'd need a fun bus or "party van" if you will, with at least 2-4 of each.
>>29770306
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/24/webster-new-york-firefighter-shot/1788917/
If it's an area where assaults on EMS are relatively common, allowing providers to carry isn't a bad idea.
On the whole though, most EMS injuries are from traffic collisions and overexertion and more EMS personnel die in helicopter crashes every year than from anything else, so it's not really needed outside of those areas.
>>29769109
Good point, how long will it be before actual trained police stop turning up to dangerous calls because 'meh, they've got guns, they'll be fine'.
>>29769846
its a fine idea
Ambulances and EMTs often have to wait until an area is cleared of threats by the police, which means they literally sit a block away while somebody could be dying, waiting for the cops to roll up.
And even after arriving they are still under threat. Its pretty common knowledge that cops wrestle around with suspects and deal with their shit, but firefighters and EMTs do as well. Ive heard stories of ambulances being raided by drug addicts and thieves looking to steal all their shit while the paramedics are attending to somebody, fire trucks getting rocks thrown at their trucks, and both parties nearly get mobbed by people when trying to fucking help them. Cops I can see dealing with this, but somebody trying to put out the fire or give your friend CPR?
hell we don't enforce strict training for LEOs with their guns, why not let these guys have the right to defense
>>29770057
>If they start teaching me how to write tickets, I'd agree with you at that point.
My god, you have no idea how many times I've wanted to ticket someone for failure to yield to emergency vehicles.
Actually you probably do.
>>29770348
That's why it would be ok to have it in a lock-box in the ambulance, that could be removed at the end of the shift. Or to have the driver be the designated carry guy.
>>29769994
I wouldn't bother, you're arguing with idiots who won't be swayed.
>>29770378
Actually, you could just get a dash cam.
>>29770256
If its in a locked box, bolted to the dash, might as well not bother having it at all.
>>29770442
Actually, if the alternative is "wait on police", it would be the better option. That's sort of been the reason the debate started. Firemen and cops often have to wait on police at dangerous scenes, and are basically sitting ducks or end up getting to where they need to be, too late.
>>29770455
>firemen and cops
Goddamn. I meant EMTs.
>>29770455
So EMS and firefighters need to start kicking down doors and clearing rooms? Ok.
>>29770473
I thought the point was for them to be able to defend themselves worst comes to worst where are you getting that from?
>>29770473
Not necessarily, but in a non-zero amount of instances it would help them save a life, even their own. I don't think every emergency where someone is acting the fool, requires a door to be kicked in or rooms to be cleared either.
Also, assaults on firemen and EMS can arise out of seemingly calm circumstances. I don't think it's too farfetched for JUST a couple EMTs to go to tend to someone, only to find themselves in a pretty shady place with people who are drugged out of their minds, or just assholes.
>>29770442
>>29770455
>>29770473
A Fire/EMS gun shouldn't be used to intentionally put yourself into more danger. It should be a fallback tool for when a previously unknown danger presents itself down the line.
>>29769846
i think most EMS/paramedics are big ego faggots including this asshole, however, I agree that open carry does little other than make the medical fist responder's job harder.
I feel we have a problem in the US with the militarization of local police. No reason to drag fire and EMS down that path too.
>>29770318
How are you confused? Look at the context 'officer' was used in the post that anon responded too.
>>29769269
Getting ready to invade hell and Kill the devil obviously
I understand wanting to provide a means of protection for EMS, given the amount of dangerous situations they fall into. I can also easily imagine a situation that was previously declared safe going south in a hurry.
I also understand the stigma associated with the idea. Giving lifesavers weapons? It sounds a little nutty, just on the face of it, nevermind the potential for fallout should, God forbid, an EMT have to actually *use* the weapon.
I'm not so sure that there's a middle ground here, at least not without falling back to the 2nd Amendment. The closest I can think of is to allow concealed (and only concealed) carry for those EMT's that choose to do so. I don't believe that will be a large number, given the reactions to the idea from some medi/k/s ITT, but the choice should be there, and made on an individual basis, just as it is among civvies. I don't think this will make everyone happy, but I do think it's the right thing to do.
>>29769004
to be fair it would give the PJ's something to do
>>29769372
wait so he fucked the effectiveness of the police force saw this and decided instead of changing policy and correcting it he got himself an armored car?
...thats pretty fucked, bro
>>29767826
PG county station 34 here, a lot of my friends knew those guys. Fucking shame how that shit happened.
>>29769846
>>29770173
Guy's brother called 911 because he thought his brother (known diabetic) might be in trouble. 911 dispatch sent a fire and medic unit to the scene. Two firefighters knocked on the door and got no answer. Tried to force entry because somebody could easily be dead or dying inside and the guy inside answered with gunfire.
>>29767427
Case in point. Society is better without that parasite
>>29768428
I don't even care if this is bait or not, but my instructor was a woman and holy fuck did she know her shit. I would've trusted her with my life more than any of the medics I rode with through training.
>>29769804
If you end up bleeding to death on the ground as an EMT, you fucked up hardcore somewhere along the line.
You always wait for the cops to secure the scene and only then do you go in. You don't fucking walk into a sketchy situation without cops, ever
People trust EMT's because we don't have guns and we don't arrest people. Once word gets out that we can carry guns, people will be much more reluctant to let us into their homes to do our job and help them. In some cases, you'll just be escalating the situation with a weapon. As an EMT you de-escalate, you don't start doing the fucking mozambique drill with your magical healing bullets
First thing EMS learn
>"is the scene safe"
If it's not safe wait for it to be safe or leave. Period.
Don't arm EMS please. Its a stupid idea. This isn't a war zone.
If EMS being attacked is an issue then maybe create a specialized EMS program that deals with threats as well. But just giving all EMS weapons is not a good idea.
>>29769493
Active shooter training allows us to begin treatment on victims before the whole building has been cleared by police. We don't do any room clearing or suspect takedown.
>>29772428
>sketchy situation
>hey guys my friend broke his leg we need you
>alright we are going to help
and 2 EMT were shot
that is sure a sketchy situation right ? what's next ? callign the cops when little maria got her kitten stuck on the top of a tree ? send the FBI HRT when local grandma need to be escorted to the hospital ?
>>29767354
Remember, President Obama wants an army at home ( ruled by him like a king ) as big as the one the DoD controls.
>doc wagon is a thing now
>>29772526
Shit happens. It's fucked up and horrific, but it happens. Where did this happen? Fucking detroit? Some ghetto? Then yes, they should have had police support, because going into a shit area for anything can turn real bad real quick.
My point is, people who's job is to render aid and save lives should never carry a fucking weapon because that defeats the whole goddamn purpose and will only ever escalate situations and create a feeling of distrust between them and the public. Say some armed paramedic pops 15 year old jamal because he started wigging the fuck out on an overdose. It would be in the news everywhere and no one would trust us anymore, regardless of what happened. Trust is one of the most important aspects of the medical world you fucking mongoloid
>>29769269
That's some tight ass camo desu senpai
>>29767460
nignogs
>>29772566
>Trust is one of the most important aspects of the medical world you fucking mongoloid
yeah, nah ,if you know that there's a X% of chance that somebody want to kill you then you must be ready to face that situation by all mean
and by following your post all of that happen because of fucking dindus or other shit living in ghettos
do you seriously think that there would be enough cops for each ambulance in the country ?
protip : there isn't
EMTs should carry. I mean they of all people would be able to shoot to wound and then treat the person they shot.
Its perfect.
Paramedic here chiming in on with my two cents
This is pointless and a bad idea.
Basic thing taught is scene safety, If you have any moment of doubt you do not enter the scene. Stay in your truck a block away and wait for PD. As for 'Junkies' you give them the meds and equipment you want. There is no need for medics to have guns*
*Unless they are a specality trained branch (i.e Where I work I am a tac-medic, we train with a speciality intervention team. Trained to follow and support them even trained to fire weapons but we do not carry them. It's really only life or death.)
yesterday I got dispatched to a gunshot wound at a bank, hauled ass over there thinking someone was bleeding out, started rushing in and just as I get to the door got waved off by a cop saying "oh there's no injuries" well wtf
in retrospect I probably shouldn't have been in such a rush to get in there
>>29770305
>police officer shoots first unarmed minority they see on scene
>EMT complains he didn't get to shoot him, plants gun he's been carrying illegal on the "armed threat"
>firefighter is off posing without his shirt
>attorney obtains liability waivers from everyone at scene
>>29773750
I keked
>>29772531
For like, the entirety of a few months before he's replaced?
Sounds lame
>>29767826
Are you from Sykesville or Morningside? I'm just across the county line
EMTs NEED to carry, they should at least not be prohibited from carrying. Apparently EMTs are attacked all the fucking time in some places for whatever reason
>>29768428
Please bring these "knowledgeable" and "experienced" female EMTs to my station. Every fucking woman to enter the ambulance has been a train wreck regardless of age. One of my favorite times was watching a female medic scream at a cardiac patient making the PT apologize for calling 911. The young girls just fuck all the firefighters then leave after a year or two.
They have no place in a functioning, efficient fire dept.
This is gonna sound crazy guys but hear me out.
Maybe, just maybe, whether or not EMS should carry and if so how varies by location.
There's plenty of nice areas with quick police response where it could create problems where there aren't any. There's plenty of bad areas where you'd be stupid not to carry no matter who you are. And I'm sure in Alaska, etc keeping a shotgun in the back for bear and such isn't a bad idea.
Crazy I know but it turns out not all areas are alike and trying to force universal solutions almost always makes things worse. With the death of Federalism people seem to have forgotten this.
>>29767354
>you will never be inna rig with sassy black woman partner
>you will never get a call from dispatch to go into "that" neighborhood
>you will never hop out of the right with her and immediately start operating operationally fending off crackheads and meth-addicts
>>29769269
WHAT THE FUCK PHILLIPINES?
I need fucking earplugs to look at your uniform.
>>29769787
>I got barrel swept with a nerf gun
>>29769251
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Webster,_New_York_shooting
>>29776615
>>29776621
I count 1
can someone verify the count
>>29774676
I no longer work with my sassy black partner. She would rile up every one of those crackheads and I would have to fend them off.
>>29767460
Someone suffering a seizure is likely to hurt themself or the person assisting them. More than enough justification for the emt to run the Mozambique drill on the guy
10 to 1 drug seekers would try to get shot just for fentanyl.
>>29768829
>>29769137
Most injuries don't even come from the other side. Usually, field refs tackle you, drop you on the ground and cover your head with their body while shouting "GUNS ON THE GROUND!" repeatedly until everyone has their gun on the ground, steps back and takes a knee. Most injuries I have seen in my time were from people fucking around with their own markers, "cleaning" the barrel with balls loaded, or dicking around with their team in the starter zone, where people sometimes lift their masks to spit/smoke/drink, because they forget that every marker is dangerous to the eyes, no matter which team, or if it is yours or someone else's.
t. former paintball ref
>>29767354
My only imitation tofu beef is that this is just another hurdle of training put in the way for someone to become an emt. More cost in yearly training would be required too. Cops aren't just handed a gun and never tested again
EMTs should be allowed to carry.
All this scene safety shit is bullshit rhetoric they teach EMTs because they aren't cops, EMTs don't need to be cops and we aren't talking about them open carrying XM134 miniguns, we are talking about conceal carrying.
I conceal carry as a firefighter and I do it with a glock in a fanny pack.
>>29777306
You don't have to make it mandatory, I garuntee that EMTs would pay out of pocket for any training necessary and if they don't want it they don't need it.
>>29771704
Kek
Is their mission selection really that low
EMTs should carry guns, Firetrucks should have 1 bright orange/red shotgun on board.
>>29767507
Niggers, shitskins and gypsies do the same in Europe. Firefighters and ambulance staff gets regularly harassed by streetscum
This thread reminds me of Cyberpunk 2020's Trauma Team International corporation. Heavily armed ambulance-gunships carrying medics and security contractors to rescue people.
>>29777288
No, they wouldn't.
Christ, I've been working in this field for a few months shy of 20 years now and it's just not that dangerous. I've been assaulted, sure. Been stabbed, even. Stabbed by a crying 15 year old girl. And if I hadn't been a retard who disregarded scene safety, that shit wouldn't have happened.
You don't need guns on the unit, you nimrods. You don't need something for Drunky McCrackhead the hobo to grab off your belt while you're working on him. If the scene is unsafe, don't enter. If it becomes unsafe, leave. Simple as that.
>>29778005
That was the point
>>29770515
> Firemen and cops often have to wait on police at dangerous scenes, and are basically sitting ducks or end up getting to where they need to be, too late.
I interpreted that as
>Armed firemen and EMTs dont need cops they can go in to dangerous scenes and handle those by themselves.
>>29777900
What in the fuck did I just read?
>>29778094
Funny, I read it as:
> medical responders being unarmed means that, while they are assaulted from time to time, they're also not seen by the community at large as a threat
>>29774676
Been there, done that. Never again
> doesn't listen for shit
> takes every correction or piece of advice as a personal insult
> constantly complains about everything and everyone.... all the time
> pisses off everybody, doesn't understand why they hate her
> is an expert at everybody else's job, absolute shit at her own
> big as a house, can't lift for shit
> always comes in late, always leaves early
Never again, man. Sheboons are fucking nightmares to work with. I'd rather drive semi trucks.
![176886_ts[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/fXfQ5HI.jpg "176886_ts[1].jpg")
>>29778005
>off your belt
![article-0-1DF283F200000578-865_634x448[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HUWQhXV.jpg "article-0-1DF283F200000578-865_634x448[1].jpg")
>>29778124
That is how I read it too. I wonder if jamal agrees.
>>29768428
3/4 of the job is physical
If you're not lead, I don't care how good your patient care is, I'm sick of calling/ being called for a god damn lift assist because 5'2, 90 pounds of "girl power" can't stair chair a 150 pound man down a flight of steps
EMTs with guns is the future.
I have a question for any EMTs in the thread. Have you ever had to ram a vehicle out of the way on a response?
>>29780648
Hell yea
if you are an EMT you should already be armed because all good responsible private citizens should have that right
it shouldnt be required or endorsed by the state agencies, and this little parading them through a tactical paintball track is fucking gay
just another way to keep ccw out of the hands of citizens by enforcing the class of "first responders are the only ones pruffessional nuff to handle dis glock"
>>29770371
You're a fucking retard, and you either didn't read or didn't comprehend his post
>1. EMS wait until the area is secure because their work takes time. If you give it a cursory glance, think the area is clear, then some crackhead jumps out of a closet whilst you've got your hands inside someone, pinching an artery to stop them bleeding out, there isn't much you could do. EMS has to be absolutely sure that the site is totally secure. For them to achieve that themselves, they'd need to be trained tactical operations to the same level as a police officer (and even if that were the case, there would still be plenty of situations they'd be unable to respond to, ie. where an advanced tactical/SWAT team is needed). Training them like this would inevitably have a couple of outcomes: 1. Less people want to become EMS because they don't like the idea of being routinely armed 2. Less people graduate EMS training because they fail tactical aspects 3. Quality of the MEDICINE is diluted as monthly training time usually spent on medicine has to be shared with tactical training
>2. Decent, effective police officers are the product of experience, not training. Police officers fresh out of the academy are jumpy, skittish, and prone to overreact. It's not until they get some experience that their situation awareness and decision making (appropriate use of force etc.) become, well, in many cases 'acceptable'. An EMS wouldn't be involved in tactical situations often enough to develop this experience and awareness. But when they are involved, they're going to be in more danger themselves, and there's going to be a massively increased risk of unnecessary/unlawful shootings (as if EMS don't have enough liability already).
3. Arming EMS would make them a valid target. At the moment, there is at the very least a significant chunk of the population who understand the difference between police and EMS.
>>29781490
EMTS should be allowed to ccw as a private citizen on the job, just like any other private citizen should be allowed to do so
ITT:
>Actual EMTs saying this is a retarded idea
>everyone else saying "nah dude this is a great idea we know what we're talking about"
>>29781490
>implying terrorists don't target first responders anyway
>>29780648
I wish
>>29782393
>terrorists are a typical part of an EMS' day and we should make major changes to EMS operating policies to accommodate them
>>29777900
>>29778118
Apparently Scifi PJs.
>>29767484
How about the authorities stop using excessive fucking force every time they deal with the African-American community?
>>29782824
How about black Americans act like civilized people or get the Fuck out
>>29782842
>get the Fuck out
Umm, white Americans brought them there against their will you stupid fucking moron. This is why scandinavians like me look down on the USA and Brazil.
>>29767507
Damn niggers. I would have pumped fucking gasoline on the fires
>>29782908
> using the n-word casually
How's 5th grade going?
>>29767354
Wow this thread made me hate nigs.
>>29782873
>Scandinavians like me
okay, ahmed
>>29767354
Possible future EMT here. If I was on the ambulance, I'd be carrying my Shield with me. EMTs and ambulance drivers get held up quite frequently [citation needed].
>>29782994
>possible future EMT here
As if that makes us consider you anything more than a showboating try hard
>>29768829
gaymo
>>29782873
>white Americans brought them there
I think you mean the Brits and the Dutch slave trade brought them there from their villages after their village chiefs sold them.
>>29770170
y o u a r e s p e c i a l
>>29770400
euphoric
>>29781490
angry
>EMTs litterally shooting people to get to an injured person.....
I get it of its a terrorist event but just like EVERYTHING after 9/11, militarization of civil servants eve tually just gets used on regular criminals and citizens........because of the lack of terrorists.
"Gee bob if we dont use the BEARCAT enough Uncle Sam will take it back and say we didnt need it......we have any simple possession of marijjuana warrants to serve?"
Thats how your fuckin dog gets killed and you end up with a free BEARCAT sized bay window in your fucking house......
>>29782731
One time a kebab deli owner put mayo on my italian sub.
Is that terrorism?
I think it's terrorism
>>29781490
>why should people carrying guns, the police are there to help !
die in a fire
