So /k, I got my tax return and want to get a gun with it. I'm massive poorfag, so this is going to be my second gun, and first handgun.
I've shot handguns plenty before, so experience isn't an issue. The issue is cost.
I have ~$350 to drop, and I'd prefer to get a pistol and have a little left over to cover shipping and FFL within that limit. I reside in Commiefornia, so limitations of law are a consideration I have to take.
My choice so far has been the P64 Makarov. I like the look, and the gun has decent reviews. Any other suggestions/ comments on the quality of the gun, or concerns?
Pic is googled, but its the same model.
>Makarov
Heard the P64 is cheap. It's not a "real" Makarov either.
Buy a Bulgarian Makarov for $300. That's what I got and I love it. Ammo isn't too bad either - 15$ for 50 Tulammo.
But don't buy a FEG or P64.
>>29748462
Follow this anons advice. Bunch of places are running killer deals on maks with 2 mags and often 2 grips and holster for 300
>>29748462
So P64s aren't such a good idea? If the Bulgarian is better then its a deal in my eyes.
>>29748457
Yeah, I realized by a quick search that they aren't officially Makarov, but Radom P64. Sorry!
>>29748479
....where might I find such deals? All the sites I know are jewing hard for extra cash for accessories & magazines.
With a Makarov or similar Soviet era milsurp handgun, you'll be getting a gun that's been shot to shit, may or may not be in very good condition (a lot of these guns are refinished externally only, and graded just by their cosmetics), has a barely usable double action trigger pull, and shoots a caliber of ammo that is not commonly available in stores for a good price. The last one would be the deal-killer for me. Sure, you can find 9x18 ammo online for a pretty good price, but if you're buying a poorfag handgun, odds are that you don't have the money to order 1000 rounds of the stuff at a time, and will instead be getting a few boxes at a time from gun stores. Besides, isn't the reason you're looking at milsurp to save money? A Mak will only force you to spend more money than a beginner 9mm handgun.
What you need is something like a Smith and Wesson SD9VE, Ruger 9E, Sig SP2022, or, if you're willing to consider a used gun: Ruger P95, Ruger P89, Smith and Wesson 5906, Smith and Wesson 910, or even an FEG Hi-Power. All can be had for $300 or less and will cost the least to shoot.
>>29748581
Some of the guns you listed are difficult to get in LOL SAFE GUN LIST OR C&R ONLY commiefornia. It can be done through the magic of PPT, but expect to get screwed on the markup, which ruins the reason to get a poorfag gun to begin with.
However, there ARE still two Hi-Points left on the safe handgun roster...
>>29748532
Hmm well they were. Buds had a good deal like that going but with one mag. Looks like they are selling out though. Dig through slickguns and make sure.
>>29748613
I don't know all the California-OK handguns, but the point remains: a beginner's 9mm handgun will serve you a lot better than an old Soviet surplus sell-off chambered for a rare caliber.
>>29748581
Mak is essentially the same price as 9mm. You can get it all day long for 15 per 50. And all of the rest of that talk is horse shit. Mal the triggers are very good and these Bulgarian guns coming in are almost brand new.
Op don't listen to this bs.
>>29748642
Mak triggers*
>good price, 2 mags, excellent cond.
>go to website
>out of stock
fuck.
P64 has literally the worst trigger ever. Worse even than hand nugget. There are reduced-power mainsprings, but then you risk light primer strikes.
On the upside it does also have 50m sites. But still, get a Mak. East German are best, but all are good.
It seems like a racket to charge $10 to confirm that the mag you get with your gun is matching serial #s.
Is it worth it, or is it likely that the gun's mag matches anyways and the guy it trying to rip people off?
Topgunsupply was running 300 for unissued milsurp Bulgarian Makarovs. Covered in cosmoline with original logbook, 2 mags, and original holster.
Not sure if they're still selling them atm.
But it definitely wasn't "shot to shit" and the trigger pull isn't bad SA. The DA trigger pull is expectedly heavy.
>>29748693
Who cares if mags match serial numbers. It's just a magazine.
Maybe if it was like "Putins old Makarov service pistol with matching mags" it would matter. But for a 300$ plinker who really cares.
>>29748642
>Mak is essentially the same price as 9mm. You can get it all day long for 15 per 50.
I can get 9mm all day long for $10 per 50 online, so, no, they are not the same price. $15 per box is 50% more.
>And all of the rest of that talk is horse shit.
Any other examples or reasons why "the rest" of my reasoning is "horse shit" besides just the below one? I also mentioned the condition of the guns being an issue, parts breaking, springs being worn out, etc. are a real consideration for a 60 year old weapon.
>Mal the triggers are very good and these Bulgarian guns coming in are almost brand new.
The double action triggers are really not that good, especially on these P64's. Otherwise, companies wouldn't get rich selling spring kits to reduce the hammer spring power (http://www.p64resource.com/fixes.php). Google it, search any gun forum or the /k/ archive. Practically everyone who buys one complains about the heavy DA trigger pull. See, for example:
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/p-64-d-a-trigger-pull-lighten.79465/
>Trouble is; the D/A trigger pull, which, while physically possible to achieve, is a harder than Tibetan calculus.
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=46&t=21229
>25-30lb trigger pull
>Op don't listen to this bs.
The thing about 4chan is that arguments stand on the strength of their evidence and logical consistency, not based on whether or not you nervously cry for the OP to close his ears to people who contradict you.
>>29748717
So 2 flaws. Old weapon worn out and heavy DA trigger pull. I don't know a lot of people who fire DA in the first place. And secondly if it's unissued milsurp you needn't worry about it being worn out.
>>29748388
Makarovs aren't as practical as /k/ says. They're basically a lower caliber hi point. Heavy, bulky, and low capacity. Get something like an LC9 you can actually carry and it's in a common caliber. The size/weight is justification for the low capacity, there's no justification for the limitations of the makarov.
Also you can get an FNS40 right now for 399, and probably a used glock for around there. Those will never leave you wanting like a budget handgun will. For example you could get an sve9e and at some point think "damn if I just saved 50 more I wouldn't have a POS." Also the ruger 9e is ok.
>>29748706
Kinda what I thought.
Any experience with JG Sales? I'm always wary with sites I haven't heard of before, and their customer service is apparently terrible.
>>29748752
Commiefornia requires the low capacity, so that doesn't bother me too much.
I just need to hit this price point, and heavy / bulky doesn't kill it. Can't CC here anyways, so its kinda null points.
>>29748742
I mentioned four flaws in my post. That doesn't mean that the guns only have four flaws. It just means that, if you are reading my post for comprehension, only about 50% of the information is making its way through to you.
1. Mechanical wear
2. Difficulty in selecting a high grade weapon online, due to cosmetic grading
3. heavy DA trigger pull
4. Rarity and expense of ammunition
> I don't know a lot of people who fire DA in the first place.
What a weird thing to say. What redeeming value would there be in buying a weapon then not learning to shoot it as designed? Do you think that in a defensive situation, you will always have time to reach up with your thumb and cock the hammer back manually?
>And secondly if it's unissued milsurp you needn't worry about it being worn out.
I hate to burst your bubble, but "unissued" is a surplus weapons grade, not a manufacturer's guarantee. Like I mentioned in my last post, it's common for these guns to be refinished prior to import, which hides their true condition behind a smooth veil of fresh bluing. Hence, it's hard to know exactly what you're getting, in spite of grades.
>>29748804
ok, well if its not a good option, is there a comparable pistol (needs same low cap magazines) in the price range? I looked into the SD9VE and SD40VE, for example, and the Ruger 9E but they all have CA illegal mag capacities.
>>29748388
>P64 Makarov
Buy it and shoot yourself faggot. P64s are not makarovs.
>>29749006
read
>>29748502
and fuck off.
>>29748462
I love my p64. Nothing wrong with a Polish PPK.
>>29748804
Well if you cant hit a human sized target 5-10ft away from you with the DA trigger than you'd be fucked regardless, the DA trigger isn't even that heavy, the mak is a pretty accurate point and shoot gun, ammo isn't hard to find (maybe in Cali idk), also the thing had like new internals when I ordered it from Fuds so dont spew shit you know nothing about.
>>29748793
Only thing to be mindful of: the p64 kicks like a mule. Butchers my hand.
>>29749023
I want a P64 cuz it looks like a PPK, can't afford a PPK so it'll do until i get the real deal
>>29749051
I haven't had too much issue with mine. You get used to it.
My little baby browning is WAY worse.
>>29749062
Or, save your money until you can get a real ppk. Which, btw will happen much faster if you don't blow it on " the next best thing"
Makarov has the worst trigger I've ever experienced in a gun
>>29748388
Ruger LCP Custom is a cheap; but quality pocket pistol or you could get a LCR revolver for about the same.
They're small and light so they won't be a lot of fun for target shooting; but if you need something to CC its a good bet.
>>29749111
Off roster
>>29748388
If you want a full size gun you might be able to find a Smith and Wesson 5906 for around $350. Its a big and high quality stainless steel 9mm with a 15 round capacity and a solid trigger; but its cheap because its discontinued since the modern market wants smaller, lighter guns.
>>29749111
Can't CC, its primarily target shooting and home defense. Commiefornia is shit.
>>29749088
I have other priorities right now, I'd buy it and probably sell it when the time comes to get one, if I keep it it'll be an interesting gun to have in the family, so I see it as a win win
>>29749144
My state.
No 15 round cap mags, because that kind of cap means you want to shoot schools, babies, or baby schools, apparently.
10 cap mags are available, I know, but they can run an extra $10-20 per mag plus shipping.
>>29749144
Oh yeah, I forgot you live in a communist dictatorship with 10 round magazine limits.
I guess you could look at the .45; but I think they go for more than $350.
A Makarov or a Tokarev are both decent bets, solid enough guns and they have Cold War style.
>>29748804
>9mm Makarov ammo
>rare and expensive
What kinda shit hole do you live in? I live in the middle of nowhere and even the fudd stores have 9mm Mak.
Just buy a bulgarian one for $350.
>>29748963
There are no 10 round magazines available for them? What about the Walther PPX?
>>29749006
Both of them are basically Walther PPK copies.
Dump the shitty mak idea.
Either sccy 9mm NO EXTERNAL SAFETY!!!
OR RUGER LC9S PRO AGAIN NO EXTERNAL SAFETY!!!
sccy has lifetime warranty, veteran owned, super customer service.
Ruger is excellent as well.
>>29749235
I live in a suburban area and there are a lot more sporting goods stores than there are actual gun stores. The sporting goods stores carry the common hunting calibers and some handgun calibers - 9x18 not among them. Yes, I know you can get it in any actual gun store, but I did say "rare and expensive," not just rare. Go to a gun store and it's always going to be more expensive than 9mm. Why spend the extra few dollars when you don't have to?
>>29749221
Bro if you are mincing 10-20 bucks, and you really need a gun, do not waste your time on rule of cool. Go for pure practicality.
Get a fucking hi-point. Do not get the hipoint from a gunstore new. Shop around, and buy it used from a pawn shop. Do not waste your time with a .45 or whatever the bigger bullet is. Just buy a 9mm and call it a night. You can score a used hi-point for like a buck thirty, maybe even 90 dollars.
Fun fact about hi-point. Fixed barrel. Go to the range, and put about maybe 10 mags through your new gun. Then go home and clean it. Fixed barrel is accurate as fuck. Its the hipoint paradox, is it a shitty gun, or an amazingly accurate gun? BOTH.
Finally, personal advice. Move. If you are this poor, its time to move somewhere to a lower cost of living and better opportunity.
Take a tour as a merchant marine, see the world. get out of cali. I spent 4 years in socal. fuck that noise.
>>29749242
The mags are available, but the guns are generally the same price, and each mag seems to run between $35-50, meaning with shipping I'm paying ~$450 to legally use a $350 gun.
>>29749221
Is Kahr on the list? This might be a good option.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_51/products_id/93380/Kahr+Arms+CT9093+CT9+7%2B1+9mm+4%22
>>29749304
hey, and if you are depressed about owning a hipoint, go buy a cheap ass laser. IT will fill in some of the ugly.
>>29749307
Can you order guns online in California?
>>29749307
I have no idea why you think you need to buy 10-round magazines separately and at such a mark-up. You can get California-ready handguns straight from the manufacturer, usually for less than the normal configuration.
https://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/sd9ve%209mm%2010
20 seconds of searching yields about a dozen stores offering the SD9VE with 10-round mags for under $325.
>>29749356
lol. unable to read if sarcasm or not, but yeah. In fact, legit "gun stores" are almost non-existent here, so online is the best way to go. All the ones that are brick and mortar are liable to be either rip offs or are well known, and constantly out of anything worth buying due to customer love.
>>29749450
Legitimate question. So many gun-related things are banned in the commie states - for example, I hear you can't get ammo OR reloading components shipped to you in New York - that I had to ask. Like I linked in >>29749388, there are options for CA-legal guns straight from the manufacturer, so it's not a big price difference like you may think.
>>29749479
I'm looking into that right now. Its really all about mag size, weird, eclectic "scary" features, and size (i.e ultracompact /concealable pistols).
The state is surprisingly OK with reloading.
>>29749515
You mean ghost bullets?
>>29748388
>lending the government money for free
>>29748963
It is a perfectly good option. You have one guy with some unfounded mak hate in a thread of people saying they are fine.
You can get a worn out anything unless you buy new. And saying da triggers are heavy is like saying the sky is blue. And I highly doubt he has shot a mak, even less so a p64.
>>29750396
>one guy with some unfounded mak hate
What's unfounded? Give counter-examples. Use your words to use reasoning, instead of bald opinion, to explain why you think you're right and why I'm such a "hater." All I'm doing is trying to steer a new handgun owner away from /k/'s shitty memes and toward a good purchase.
>And saying da triggers are heavy is like saying the sky is blue. And I highly doubt he has shot a mak, even less so a p64.
I have shot an East German Mak. The DA trigger was heavy and gritty - not my taste, but it's the P64 we are talking about in this thread. I admit that I haven't shot one of those, but the people who do own them are so overwhelmingly dissatisfied with their guns' DA pull that they spend extra money to change out their hammer springs. I gave examples and sources for this earlier in the thread.
I got an unissued Bulgarian Mak when they were cheap. It's a really nice gun. The DA pull is stiff but not gritty. It feels a bit like a unusually heavy Glock trigger. The barrel is chrome lined. I think it would be very hard to wear a Mak out. The sights are nothing special but the gun is very accurate.
I put in an extra power Wolff recoil & magazine springs to slow the slide down and keep it from launching cases into orbit. Even with the factory springs the slide is harder to rack than on most guns, but you get used to that quickly.
As for new blowback guns, I liked the Walther P380 that I handled at a gunshop. It seemed very solidly built and had a great grip, and it's in your price range. I don't know anything else about it, though.
>>29749262
I don't know anything about the P64, but the Mak only superficially resembles the PPK. The internals are completely different and much simpler.
>>29749051
I've never shot a P64, but the Mak is a pretty hefty gun and is very pleasant to shoot.
>>29748388
Considering you don't have much money, you ought to think about ammo. 9mm is by far the easiest and cheapest centerfire ammo, so maybe consider just saving up some more money for a used CZ 75 or other decent 9mm.
>>29752554
>the Mak only superficially resembles the PPK. The internals are completely different and much simpler.
That doesn't make it not a PPK copy. They just copied and improved it, but it's not an original design.
>>29748581
>you'll be getting a gun that's been shot to shit
Your dumb ass doesn't know shit.
Almost all of them are eastern bloc police issue. Meaning they have varying degrees of external holster wear, but are otherwise great condition because they barely ever got fired.
>>29752984
You're basing your erroneous assumptions on how American police, who barely shoot their weapons, practice. Soviets practiced with their guns enough to break parts and shoot out bores. Meaning external wear frequently matches internal wear - only, since these "unissued" guns have been refinished, you don't know what condition the internals are in.
>>29748388
Get a real makarov, they are nice and barely considered poorfag because you can get much more effecient/modern handguns for the same price. It's the most aesthetic handgun you could ever get at 300 dollars
>>29749221
Get the single stack 439 then. you can even pretend to be a big boss 4u
>>29753024
>they're not considered poorfag because they're as expensive as modern handguns
You misunderstand. The poorfag label comes from the time when these guns used to sell for $225ish, but the ammo was nearing $20 per box. Poorfags are stupid and worthy of our derision because they can't plan beyond the immediate present moment - their IQs are too low. If they were capable of such forethought, then they'd realize that the cost difference between the Mak and a nicer gun is smaller than the price difference between a year's worth of ammo between 9x18 and 9x19, and saving the extra $100-150 to buy the modern gun would pay off after about a year of regular shooting.
Now, it's somewhat evened out, though, with the gun more expensive, at $300, but the ammo a little cheaper, at $15 per box of ammo in stores, and a little less online. That doesn't change the fact that Maks still seem to retain their almost legendary status among poorfags as a good value handgun, which it really no longer is.
>>29753133
Eh idk where you're going for your 9x18 but i can normally find it for as cheap as 9x19 at academy.
Also i got my mak for 240 from aim surplus like half a year ago, just gotta find them deals.
>>29748581
bullshit
most of these surplus guns only have holster wear and were shot every month or so (specifically the bulgies)
>>29754464
Nice sources.
>>29748388
Get it yo, I got lucky. 250 out the door with extra mag and 50rds. Great ccw, but da is legit the worse.
>>29748634
>9x18
>rare
Ooooooooooooooook
>>29748388
OP just get a glock, or a xd(*), or a cz75 that way you wont have to deal with paying 1-200$ more on something everyone else can get for 2-300$.
Have you looked at the roster? If not just google california handgun roster. Its easy to see what guns you can get since its sorted by brands.
Take a look at lock stock and barrel for used guns in great condition. Back when i lived in simi valley i would always look there first since they were the only ones who carried 90% condition milsurp and bring backs
>>29748388
Op, most posters here are completely exaggerating the down sides on 9x18 surplus handguns.
You can find 9x18 for .20ยข a round all day online.
And the posters saying the guns are worn are completely wrong. Most are in like new condition with only holster wear, plus they have chrome lined barrels so there's no way your going to wear out a barrel.
Check out this deal
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3P64G2
If you hurry you can get a p64 for $200 shipped to your door. For that price you receive an all steel, blued, milled military firearm. You will need to change out the springs. But that only takes 10 mineutes and cost 14 bucks.
You can buy newer polymer gun that might be slightly more practical, but I can guarantee you that these surplus guns won't be this cheap forver.
>>29756624
>go to a gun store
>two brands of 9x18 on the shelf
>25 different types of 9mm on the shelf
>17 different types of .40
>19 different types of .380
>12 different types of .45
>9x18 is the most expensive of all of them
>"but 9x18 isn't rare at all!"
>>29748717
25-30lb?! Holy shit! I thought the nagant revolvers were fucktardedly heavy. That's just. Fuck.
>>29757000
>muh anecdotal evidence
into the trash it goes, I'm a big guy UUUU
I seriously don't understand why slavshit pistols have suddenly attracted a band of rabid detractors, they're not the best on the market but value-wise they're hard to beat
>>29748388
P64s are Makarovs the way Vz.58s are AKs
>>29753133
>$225ish
Sigh, I remember when Maks were $90. My first non-.22 pistol was an East German Mak that I paid $120 for. I also bought a couple IJ-70's for $150 and $180. One .380 and one 9x18. The former I eventually sold to a friend since it didn't share ammo with the other two.
$300 seems like a lot to me, still a pretty adequate pistol for that, but you could probably get something like a CZ-100 for a scosche more or save another paycheck or two and get a Glock. Or get all three. Is all good.
>>29757159
It's anecdotal evidence, but for what I'm talking about, there is no higher level of evidence. Think about it. I'm talking about the practicality of owning a gun in this caliber for myself, which I am generalizing to other people - admittedly a stretch since it's a big and diverse country, but I live in a medium-large size metro area. I think my experiences will apply to many other people.
If I go to any of the gun stores that are practical for me to drive to, the caliber is less common and more expensive than Western calibers. There are no other options for buying the ammo from brick and mortar stores without driving to another city or state.
I do acknowledge that it's possible to buy the ammo online for cheaper, but, like I said in an earlier post, if someone has enough money to drop on 10000 rounds of ammo at a time, then chances are, they're not going to be pinching pennies on ex-Soviet handguns in the first place, and would just save another $150 to buy a modern handgun.
>I seriously don't understand why slavshit pistols have suddenly attracted a band of rabid detractors
Because prices have gone up enough in the past 5 years that they are no longer worth the small, initial savings they now offer, and the latest batch of Bulgarian Maks is actually selling MORE expensive, in some places than some new, modern 9mm pistols. For example, Classic has them for over $300, but you can get a SD9VE for less than $300 at several places.
>>29757278
Very good post. This is exactly what I've been trying to get at, I just didn't know exactly how low the prices were in the past. I remember these guns selling in the $200-225 range, and that seemed just about right, but $300 is, IMO way too high for what it is.
>>29757501
>Think about it. I'm talking about the practicality of owning a gun in this caliber for myself, which I am generalizing to other people - admittedly a stretch since it's a big and diverse country
>the caliber is less common and more expensive than Western calibers.
where I live, 9x18 is more common than .22, and 7.62x25 is almost as common as 5.56. Maybe I live in commie gat paradise but aside from 5.45x39, slav rounds are easy to find and are as cheap as fuck.
>Because prices have gone up enough in the past 5 years that they are no longer worth the small, initial savings they now offer
debatable, especially in the case of the P64.
>the latest batch of Bulgarian Maks is actually selling MORE expensive, in some places than some new, modern 9mm pistols.
the days of cheap Maks have been over for a while, however there are still tons of inexpensive Polish/Czech pistols available.
>but you can get a SD9VE for less than $300 at several places.
which won't have the same quality as most surplus pistols.
>>29757701
>where I live, 9x18 is more common than .22, and 7.62x25 is almost as common as 5.56. Maybe I live in commie gat paradise but aside from 5.45x39, slav rounds are easy to find and are as cheap as fuck.
Are you sure about that? You can go to any Dick's Sporting Goods and Walmart and find it?
>debatable, especially in the case of the P64.
Agreed. If there were no debate, then this thread wouldn't still be alive.
>the days of cheap Maks have been over for a while, however there are still tons of inexpensive Polish/Czech pistols available.
A lot of those cheap Czech pistols are in .32 caliber and .380, which are frequently worse than 9x18 as far as expense goes, and not as good ballistically.
>which won't have the same quality as most surplus pistols.
I disagree. The SD9VE would be a better pistol, made of better materials to better specifications. Think about corrosion resistance (stainless vs blued), modern metal hardening techniques, modern guns being designed to feed hollow point ammo reliably, higher capacity, lower weight, ease of maintenance, recoil reduction... If the prices were the same, I'd choose even a 10-round SD9VE over a Mak or P64, any day of the week.
>>29748581
Can confirm, my bulgy make is in amazing condition with only external wear. This guy's a dumbass.
Mak was my first handgun and though I've shot many much more modern guns I still love it.
Get a gun that makes you excited to practice and learn. Graduate to something else once you learn what you like.
>>29757806
>Are you sure about that? You can go to any Dick's Sporting Goods and Walmart and find it?
there's shelves devoted to each in my local Gander Mountain, god knows why anyone would need that much Tokarev ammo but it's there nonetheless
>A lot of those cheap Czech pistols are in .32 caliber and .380, which are frequently worse than 9x18 as far as expense goes, and not as good ballistically.
.380 is inferior but .32 does not deserve all the hate it gets, it is a solid round. Then there's the pistols chambered in 7.62x25...
>The SD9VE would be a better pistol, made of better materials to better specifications.
it's a $300 polymer striker-fired pistol, it's hardly a top-of-the-line design. I've found it to be quite underwhelming tbqh
meanwhile, the surplus pistols have the advantages of being extremely simple designs (excluding few Czech monstrosities) that fire modest but adequate rounds, and have been proven worthy by decades of (continued) military/police service.
>>29758123
Gander Mountain is a gun store, though. And why on Earth would you say that .380 is inferior to .32? Don't you have that backwards?
>it's a $300 polymer striker-fired pistol, it's hardly a top-of-the-line design. I've found it to be quite underwhelming tbqh
Explain. I gave lots of reasons why I think it's good. All you've given is unsupported opinion.
>meanwhile, the surplus pistols have the advantages of being extremely simple designs
Simpler doesn't automatically mean better. There are a lot of ways to measure gun performance and quality.
>that fire modest but adequate rounds, and have been proven worthy by decades of (continued) military/police service.
All of this is relative and therefore subjective. You're not giving reasons why 9x18 is inherently a good choice, just saying that others have done it so therefore let's jump on the bandwagon.
>>29748388
>falling for the jewish firearm meme
>>29759289
>gander mountain is a gun store though.
I guess this guy gos to petsmart to buy tshirts and get his prescriptions filled at old navy. Go figure a gun store would sell ammo.
get a police auction gun like a used glock 23 or a s&w m&p, can be had between 300-400, you will be buying a used but well maintained weapon.
>>29760685
You didn't read my post for comprehension, then. I was talking about general availability. Sporting goods stores like Dicks and Walmart sell ammo too, but you only find the common Western calibers.
