How effective are these for self-defense?
What are some things to know about them?
A little background:
Up here in Canada, we're not allowed to have hardly anything for self-defense purposes (not even mace, a small knife, etc). If you use a "controlled weapon" and end up hurting/killing someone who just tried to rob you, you'll be charged.
But there is a loophole where you can have a baton as long as it isn't spring-action (i.e. they're allowed if they're extended with a flick of the wrist, but not by a button).
I have a mild form of muscular dystrophy and a very beautiful girlfriend so I just want to be able to defend her and myself.
>>29744906 [OP]
Not much to say its just a modern stick that you can beat people with. If it's all you can have than roll with it
>>29744906
I just use a car antenna
>>29744906
Aim for the joints.
>>29744906
>very beautiful girlfriend
I don't believe you
Pics
>>29744959
>tits or gtfo?
>>29744906
Eskrimador here. In my experience, even the expensive ones collapse after 2-3 full power strikes to a heavy bag. You would be better off with a canemasters fighting cane.
>>29744954
I would have thought you'd want to hit bone. Kneecap/elbow/SKULL, etc.
>>29744959
No point in posting a pic, only risking her somehow magically getting dox'd
>>29744985
>I would have thought you'd want to hit bone
You do. Anywhere bone is close to surface. Collarbone, hip bone, joints. Takes a lot of practice to target like that. Avoid the head, usually lethal, collarbone is better.
>>29744983
While I could probably use a cane, I'd rather not look like a complete gimp. I don't have a problem if the baton is "single use"
Canadian here too. I was thinking about getting a blackjack. I know it doesn't have as much reach as a baton and is probably less effective, but I think there is something classical about them that makes me want to own one. I mean, a lead tip at the end of a spring is still pretty unusual for a weapon. It makes me want to knock people out from behind.
I'm pretty sure they are not legal though..they still get sold as "keychains'' lmao
>>29745012
Just be aware that it will probably collapse. Can you carry two?
>>29745024
Sap is easier to conceal, but both are illegal just about everywhere.
>>29745025
I would think 2-3 full power strikes would be enough. I'm not looking to kill or maim anyone, just put them down or make them flee.
But the cane is actually a good idea, especially for me, because there is no way it could be proved that I carried the cane solely for self-defense purposes, which is key to it being illegal.
>>29745012
I would reconsider a stout cane. You don't necessarily have to hobble about with it, and it's like carrying a baseball bat everywhere you go.
>>29744906
Don't gamble with your or your loved one's lives, anon. Carry a pistol and shoot to kill. If you fire and you're not trying to kill them, then you're not in life-threatening danger. (Brandishing is fine, just don't "shoot to wound.") Additionally, if they're dead, it's your story, not whatever weasly lie they can try to come up with to wriggle out of it. Even if you are convicted of some bullshit, you and yours will be alive, the only thing that can't be replaced.
>>29745063
Get one designed for fighting, that won't break. These are good:
http://www.canemasters.com/
OP, why not a knife?
>>29745069
Not everyone is Amerifat, Yosemite Sam. Civilized countries don't let civvies carry pistols around. That said, OP, I hope you own pic related for home defense. Shorty shotties are one of the good things about living in Canada.
>>29745084
As I said in my post, they're illegal to even carry.
It's against the law in Canada to carry "controlled weapons", because according to the law the only plausible reason you would have for carrying a knife over x number of inches is that you're planning to stab someone.
>>29745049
>>29745024
Why are these illegal?
>>29745113
But that silly bat isn't going to help you. You mention a maximum length for knives, surely you could get one under that length?
>>29745131
I think the max length is like 2 inches. You're not going to stop someone with a tiny swiss army knife.
>>29745113
That's funny.
RCMP: What's this, citizen?
Canadian Citizen: A reasonably sized knife.
RCMP: Planning to stab someone, eh?
CC: Yes. Anyone who tries to hurt me.
[boiyiongoingoingoing sound effect]
>>29744906
>(i.e. they're allowed if they're extended with a flick of the wrist, but not by a button).
Soooooo like those toy lightsabers are toysrus?
Sorry I know I am shitposting... Ummm..... Can you absolutely NOT have a sturdy ass oak Cane?
>>29745124
Because as countries get more and more progressive they make laws to protect criminals.
Which in turn fuck over law abiding citizens or turns them into criminals... which are protected.
Best off to just cut out the middle man and become a criminal.
>>29745154
I didn't want to say this to the earlier poster who suggested a cane, but quite frankly I'd look like a fool walking around with one of those.
Actually, I might be particularly self-conscious about the prospect of using a cane due to the degenerate nature of my physical issues.
>>29745181
degenerative* lol
>>29745107
>Not everyone is Amerifat, Yosemite Sam.
Yes, and that is unfortunate indeed.
> Civilized countries don't let civvies carry pistols around.
It's quite the opposite, actually. Civilized people don't bar others from defending their life, liberty and property with effective tools. I hope you aren't unironically opposed to the ancient right of self-defense, which cannot be excercised with a limp dick in your hand.
t. non-retarded, non-socialist Finn
'Batons can fuck somebody up real good.
Get an enlargened tip.
>>29745207
Oh, good tip. Will keep my eye out for ones with bigger ends
Could OP just carry a cattle prod?
Never know when a moose is going to attack in canada.
>>29745207
I've heard this same thing too- that batons can cause some serious damage to people.
>>29745227
Very funny, but I've never even seen a moose.
I've seen giraffes, gorillas, lions...
but not a moose.
>>29745229
>I've heard this same thing too- that batons can cause some serious damage to people.
Sure, if the "people" in question are old, senile cripples and/or unwilling to retaliate in any way. In either case, self-defense isn't something you'd have to worry about.
Getting into QQB is the worst possible option in any possible scenario involving a random assault; the most likely outcome is dying to a stab wound, blunt force trauma (possibly inflicted with your own baton) or a bullet, in case the assailant carried a firearm.
No PR-24 allowed? An aluminum PR-24 wrecks people with tedious efficiency.
>>29745181
I empathize, anon - I assume it's tough living under the shadow of MD, and annoying when people assume you're less physically capable than you actually are. But this goes back my suggestion that you carry a pistol (illegally).
Self defense is a game of absolutes. When your life is in danger, you should try to preserve it at all costs. I'm a perfectly average physically capable adult male, but I still carry a concealed pistol because there are others who are stronger than me, better fighters than me, and like to rob in groups. I got all that going against me, same as you, but you have some degree of physical limitation due to MD, however slight it may be. If it makes sense for me to carry, it sure as hell would make sense for you to. Chances are I will never have to draw or shoot anyone in my lifetime, ever; but if I have to, I have the best chances of making it out okay by carrying the most effective self defense tool possible.
>>29745113
>>29745140
There is no law about the maximum length of a knife in Canada.
>>29745206
>Yes, and that is unfortunate indeed.
Fortunately we aren't all like you. The world would fall apart if it was the case.
>It's quite the opposite, actually. Civilized people don't bar others from defending their life, liberty and property with effective tools.
You have the right to defend yourself sure, but not the one to have a gun at your belt like a cowboy nor the right to kill because you "thought" someone were threatening your life
>>29745140
You know that even the smallest swiss knife can kill a grown buffed 6 feet tall male
>>29745339
>Fortunately we aren't all like you.
I'm not American.
>The world would fall apart if it was the case.
I don't see the gun-dense parts of America falling apart - with exception for gun-control riddled cities where gang members shoot each other at a whim with illegal guns, of course.
>You have the right to defend yourself sure
The right to bear arms is a natural extension of the right to defend oneself. Why should the victim of a crime be at a power disadvantage? Why must the criminal, armed with a knife or pistol, have the upper hand?
>but not the one to have a gun at your belt like a cowboy
How ironic of you to mention cowboys, when the midwest and south are famously gun-dense and yet suffer minimal "gun homicides" (or whatever nonsense you parrot when defending your communist views) that don't involve criminals waving around illegal guns.
>nor the right to kill
If someone threatens me with deadly force, I have every right to retaliate with deadly force. Don't agree? Then move the fuck out of Canada, you dirty commie chink.
>because you "thought" someone were threatening your life
Since when does a victim of a crime require the power of precognition to defend himself/herself from aggression?
>>29745339
Actually, I do have the right to have a gun on my belt.
>>29745334
My bad, you're right. But there are a lot of restrictions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation#Canada
>but there is a prohibition against carrying a knife if the possessor intends to carry for a purpose dangerous to public peace or for the purpose of committing a criminal offence. It is also an offence to take a weapon or prohibited device to a public meeting.
Simply having one on you is considered dangerous to public peace.
>the person is liable to a maximum of 5 years in jail and the weapon being seized
>>29745393
>I'm not American.
But given your reply you wish you could. It's merely the same thing
>I don't see the gun-dense parts of America falling apart.
The gun law is not the issue here, I mean my country has one of the higher concentration of rifles per citizens but we have one of the lowest crime/death by firearms rate. It's the mentality that you can shoot everyone just because that will induce the world to fall apart.
>The right to bear arms is a natural extension of the right to defend oneself. Why should the victim of a crime be at a power disadvantage? Why must the criminal, armed with a knife or pistol, have the upper hand?
Because if you're behaving like the crime perpetrator you're not a victim but someone who was just waiting to kill somone.
>when the midwest and south are famously gun-dense and yet suffer minimal "gun homicides"
Like I said before, it's not the fact that you can have a weapon, why would it bother me since I've a rifle myself, but that you parade with it waiting for someone to shoot at him.
>If someone threatens me with deadly force, I have every right to retaliate with deadly force. Don't agree? Then move the fuck out of Canada, you dirty commie chink.
Actually no I don't quiet agree. The fact someone use "deadly" force, which isn't the case most of the time, doesn't implies you have to be shitty person like the one in front of you. And the law is written in this very aspect. When you defend yourself you hurt or incapacitate but you're not supposed to kill. If you kill, you're litterally in the boots of the man who mugged you.
>Since when does a victim of a crime require the power of precognition to defend himself/herself from aggression?
Because murder is a crime and killing someone over your instict isn't a smart move. Maybe he wasn't going to do anything but you killed him anyway because it was dark and you were frightened.
And what does it have to do anything with Canada or being supposedly a commie?
>>29745452
>Simply having one on you is considered dangerous to public peace.
That is not true.
>>29745025
You don't have the right to carry a weapon whatsoever.
>>29745124
They are seen as offensive not defensive
>>29745613
> When you defend yourself you hurt or incapacitate but you're not supposed to kill. If you kill, you're litterally in the boots of the man who mugged you.
You're naive to think that anyone would be capable of reliably shooting someone in a manner that incapacitates instead of kills in a self-defense situation.
You shoot to stop the person as soon as possible. The fact is that the only way to reliably stop them is to shoot them in a lethal area - center mass. Policemen don't "shoot to wound," and it's their JOB to apprehend criminals with minimal injury if possible - because they understand the realities of risk vs. harm here.
>>29745426
We're talking about civilized countries anon
>>29745674
>You're naive to think that anyone would be capable of reliably shooting someone in a manner that incapacitates instead of kills in a self-defense situation.
Because it's so difficult to lower your weapon a little instead of aiming for the chest/heart
>Policemen don't shoot to wound
They do in my country so why yours can't do it?
As a slav living in east europe I strongly urge you not to ever pull that shit out in a fight
Where previously you would be roughed up and your wallet taken you pull out that crap you're losing teeth and limbs as people who will be mugging you have likely done this before and are way more experienced at fighting.
On top of all that, its not even useful in a fight becuase most of the time streetfights are close and nasty and you wont have time to pull it out, extend and get a good swing, niggas are going to be all over your shit by the time you do.
For that same reason and having beaten the bejeezus out of folks in my time I'm even sceptical if guns are that useful in a typical "Hey you got a light" situation but a gun will impress your potential robber much more than this faggot ass shit.
And dont, ever, even think about knives for self defense.
>>29745024
>>29745049
>>29745063
Absolutely this. Shillelagh are great for this purpose.
>>29745124
There is nothing defensive about that weapon. They are useful for rapping someone across the cerebellum to knock them unconscious so they can rob them before they can get back to their senses, if they aren't put into a coma.
Trying to use one as a defensive weapon, even against an unarmed assailant, would be about the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen in my life unless you got really lucky.
Believe it or not muggers, home invaders, and other violent criminals, are pretty fucking good at murdering you with their hands, assuming they don't have the obvious gun/knife/screwdriver bullshit.
A black-jack is not a weapon because you you don't fight with them. They're used in surprise attacks to knock people out or beat them for not paying their debts.
And unlike other "exotic" weapons, like throwing-knives and swords, you'd have a tough time explaining it off as a curio unless it was an antique.
>2 drunk unarmed people get in an argument
>it goes too far and they start fighting
>result: bruises and mild injuries
>2 drunk armed people get in an argument
>it goes too far and they start fighting
>result: serious injuries or death
Americans don't understand this. You can apply this logigic to a robbery or any situation.
I was mugged a few times in Montreal and I'm pretty sure I would be dead today if I would have pulled out a knife or even a gun.
Not everybody wants to fundementally kill you each time there is an altercation. Allowing everyone to carry a weapon for that 1 possibility is why the murder rate is off the roof in the US imo.
This is also why the death penality isn't a good idea. It implies that it's OK to kill people in certain situations.
With thy said, I'm still a /k/ enthusiast. I like hunting, going down the range and collecting awesome knifes or antiques, but I never have weapons on me. The words that can come out of my mouth have been sufficient to save my ass so far.
>>29745791
This man fucking gets it
>>29745791
my point exactly
no guns in my country but I always struggle to imagine just how are you planning to pull a gun and get the safety off with an angry asshole standing 1 meter from you
He's just not going to let you do that and good luck pulling a gun every time someone approaches you on the street.
>>29744906
>I have a mild form of muscular dystrophy and a very beautiful girlfriend so I just want to be able to defend her and myself..
>very beautiful girlfriend
>implying you aren't already being cucked and just don't know it yet
>wanted to protect the person cucking you with tyrone
:^)
>>29745832
>pull a gun and get the safety off
>and get the safety off
>>29745791
but its illegal to very a gun in a bar in most places anon.there cant possiby be guns in there.also are you telling me that you would let a child rapist live?off your tax money?only for a few years time to get out and do it all over again?
>>29744906
they suck
id rather have a taser, and if i have to go hands on, a black jack
>>29744954
only if you enjoy the pungent smell of courtrooms and debt
>>29745791
>Drunk men
You do know that its illegal to bring firearms at stores/restaurants that sell alcohol in the US and there are also laws in place making it illegal to shoot or even carry a firearm while intoxicated here in the US. Your agument is invalid
>>29745107
>civilized countries
how cuckolds see themselves
>>29745791
>Implying fists aren't as lethal as blunt weapons
You can still kill a man by beating them to death. Whether its through concussions or through broken bones.
>>29745791
>why the murder rate is off the roof in the US imo.
You're wrong, btw.
>>29745913
>You can still kill a man by beating them to death
You can do it with one punch, no need to beat the crap out of them
>>29745883
But crime is illegal anon.
>>29745699
You mean shoot at the legs, and take out the femoral artery?
even if you don't shoot n a technically lethal area, a person can still die from blood loss or shock. Aiming at center mass only means you have a smaller chance of missing and shooting someone else instead.
Anon, let's be real for a moment here: there's no way of shooting at someone that can't end with them dead. None.
>>29745925
>Implying drunk men will stop at one punch
>>29745929
Yet people still do it :^)
>>29745949
I wasn't talking about the drunk men part, just replying to "fists are lethal weapons"
>>29745711
This. It's wild the stories some people make up in ther heads. Like muggers will politely wait for you to retaliate or sth, instead of wrekcing your shit for trying to hurt them.
People who pull knives on assailants invariably get stabbed with them.
>if you kill your enemies they win..
>>29745259
So youre some chink in the city who went to the zoo once
>>29745967
>Moving goalposts
Fists are still lethal weapons if used as such. Street fights don't always end with one getting knocked out.
>>29745699
>Because it's so difficult to lower your weapon a little instead of aiming for the chest/heart
Many people forget that bullets travel in a line. If that line doesn't make contact with someone's frantically moving legs, then whoever is attacking you is still attacking you. It can be hard enough hitting a moving target in ideal conditions, let alone life threatening ones.
If you're attacked, aim for center mass. If they die, sucks to be them, shouldn't go around attacking people.
>>29745986
Are you high?
I literally said that fists are so lethal that you don't have to beat the shit out of someone to kill him
Please read better next time
>>29745977
And yet in most cases, US CCW holders manage to not only draw their guns, but stop the attacks (and only rarely have to fire, and even more rarely kill the attacker). Go ahead and look at the statistics or individual stories if you don't believe me.
>>29745308
>An aluminum PR-24
Why makes PR-24's in aluminum? I've only ever seen plastic versions. An all-metal PR-24 would be a fucking beast
>>29745711
I used to carry a baton for defence. My dad said "keep using that, someone's gonna take it and stick it up your ass".
You know what? He was right.
>>29746023
Back in the day they were all aluminum. But those became politically incorrect after the Rodney King incident. Now most are polymer.
>>29746003
Do you have reading comprehension? I literally said that people in street fights don't stop with one punch.
>>29745791
>I am confident that criminals are all really nice and won't do horrible things to me or others when they know I have no way of stopping them
>>29746007
home invasion, sure, guns are useful
but if I'm mugging an old geezer or a woman like fuck am I going to let them get a gun out, theres no way
>>29746132
And that's where you'd be wrong. Again, look at the statistics, look at the individual stories.
Up thread there's a warning to not assume "set piece" engagements. Well, in the case of these muggings you are assuming a set piece engagement whereby you not only get the drop on someone, but you are able to control the situation so they don't pull from concealment, or just fire from concealment, or somehow use open hands to keep you away long enough to draw.
>>29745207
Careful about that. Don't know Canadian law, but in slavland it's illegal to have that on your whackstick (collapsible batons by themselves are legal, or legalish, though).
>>29745832
Okay. Your perception of why US citizens carry guns is beyond ignorant.
First of all, to /legally/ carry a concealed weapon, you need a permit which requires you to a take a class with both a written and practical test on firearm safety but more importantly on when its okay to draw your weapon. Each permit is signed by the county sheriff who by constitutional power can arrest the governor of the state or ignore orders from the president.
Even the biggest gun-nuts I know do not bring their weapon into bars, because, duh, you might get in a bar-fight, and bar-fights have rules.
You carry a concealed weapon for when 4 punks start approaching you in a flanking pattern like you're prey. That's when you draw a gun, or at least ready yourself to do so. Especially if you're a woman, because they'll probably rape you after they mug you if they think they can get away with it.
You pull your gun when someone with an openly drawn weapon walks out of an ally or comes running at you in dark parking lot of garage.
Pulling your weapon in public, flashing that you have one, or even accidentally exposing it is grounds to revoke your license and even bring you up on charges ranging from harassment to disturbing the peace.
As for drawing a pistol, well that's called practice and yes, you can learn to do it very fast. This is why evil gun owners purchase hundreds if not thousands of rounds at a time, to practice.
You start with something called a snap-cap which is just a dummy round to keep you from damaging the gun. That way you don't blow your foot off if you fuck up.
Once you know you won't blow your foot off, you practice with live ammo and targets.
Anyone in most (I think) states can open carry with a holster but they open themselves up to being harassed by cops and civilians alike even though criminals do not open carry weapons on their hip, or get licenses to conceal their firearms.
>>29746047
Are pretending to be retarded?
I was replying to some anon talking about the lethality of fists which I backed up saying that one hit can cause death. Then you brought up the drunk argument (thing that we weren't talking about) and when I replyed saying it had nothing to do with it you said I was moving the goalpost
>>29745791
murder rate in US and canada are about equal
the vast majority of murders in the US are gang members killing each other
in Canada it's brown and red people killing each other, despite being only 20% of the population
It is okay to kill people you degenerate pacifist. you can only enjoy the peace you have because cops are prepared to kill or imprison anyone who makes themselves too hard to imprison. you're the reason Canada is turning to shit, I hope the somalians kill all of your kind
>>29745012
>I am OK if my weapon breaks
Please reconsider
>>29746165
I'm the same anon you're talking to and have been talking to from the drunk man. Now that you mentioned it. a misinterpretation occured thinking you were the same anon I was arguing earlier as well along with misinterpreting your quote.
>>29745791
There is a man that lives in my town that was attacked by two drunk men that were merely using their fists. Beat him in the face knocking his head into the pavement, and now he has permanent brain damage and his daughters take care of him. I'd rather have been shot in the head myself.
>>29746150
>Well, in the case of these muggings you are assuming a set piece engagement whereby you not only get the drop on someone
You're walking, concealed carrying a gun, I walk up to you and demand your wallet, slowly. If I see you're fidgeting with some bullshit there I clock you in the face so hard you hit the pavement and proceed to kick your teeth out
If you've never been in a situation like that you're gonna hesitate as fuck, nobody is a stone cold nigga never having been in a fight
If I have you at arms length I control the situation and most folks will mug you like that, they're going to get up in your face
>>29746227
No, I put my left hand out and tell you to relax, and I reach into my pocket and shoot you dead.
But you never got that close, because I saw your sketchy ass from a distance away, put my hand on my piece, and crossed the street. Now you're following me, out in the open, my gun is out and you're proned out waiting for the police to beat your sorry ass.
Don't like my story? Well, statistics show that it is the most likely version of events when dealing with CCWs. CCWs tend to win.
>>29745711
The examples of guns being used even after the fight has started are numerous.
He really only has to make enough time to reach it and not get fucked up, then BLAM BLAM dead nignog and another burned down QT.
>>29746002
>>29745947
I never understood this line of reasoning. Cops in my country use shoot to stop and warning shots all the time. It even happened in my neighbourhood a few years ago, some nutter with a screwdriver went around trying to stab people and ended up making a dash for a primary school. He was shot in the leg before opening the front door and promptly apprehended. Last I heard he was committed to a clinic indefinitely.
>>29744906
Personally as a defensive weapon they're hit and miss, pardon the pun. Mose extendable batons are designed for arcing style strikes with an emphasis on the "business end" or the end with a rubberized or weighted tip being flicked into a limb to temporarily disable that limb and allow for the opponent to be placed under physical restraint or "positive control" (a term used in law enforcement and security use of force training to mean a suspect was restrained to the point where they are not an immediate harm to themselves or others)
Most of the non-blockhead cops and security I've known and work with prefer the old-school ironwood, full length nightstick if they are allowed to carry one and use the extendable batons as a form of intimidation. The sound and visual effect of snapping one out is akin to the racking of a pump action shotgun when it comes to intimidation factor. But without extensive (and I do mean extensive) training with one it's got a very limited application. Strikes to vital organs or the head are usually banned under use of force policies in most departments and the time honored simple jab with the leading end of the stick to the solar plexus is frowned upon.
To be completely honest man, it's just not worth the investment unless you can be trained by someone in the basics of its use and plan to concealed carry it AND are completely certain when you pull it that you're in the right and the. Just like a gun.
>>29746370
>>29746370
The clapistanian mentality is that because x may result in death of the subject it must always be considered as lethal force due to bureaucraric bullshit.
Another point is that if you allow shooting to wound, the line to cross to use a gun might get thinner, resulting in more liberal use of firearms in situations where its use is not necessitated.
Fact of the matter is that warning shots and shots to extremeties are all parts of the force continuum. The suspect is less likely to die if shot in the thigh as opposed to being shot in the chest, and he might start complying after a warning shot. As such, thry are tools in the toolbox that may save lives when using a firearm is necessary, and the situation allows the use of the techniques.
>>29744906
>be me
>Some guy in traffic is having a road rage thing
>cuts me off, I honk at him.
>Stops his car in front of me
>I can't drive in any direction.
>he gets out, I get out w/ my baton
>He charges me, I swing just as he comes into range
>stick catches him by the jaw, but adrenalin is pumping and he catches my arm on follow through
>he rips the stick from my hand and pins me on the ground
>starts shouting that he could "kill me with my own weapon"
>drops the baton and leaves.
Just get a gun.
>>29746477
Warning shots and shooting to wound have another problem- bystanders.
>>29746370
>>29746477
idk about other anons, but I'm not saying you shouldn't shoot at people who are endangering others and generally being fuckheads. Just saying that if you're in the position of having to shoot someone, you and others are already in lethal danger and there's no point in not aiming center mass and taking down the fucker for good. Aiming for the legs can be done but it can end with the person dead anyways, and aiming for the arms is just asking to miss.
>>29745791
>It implies that it's OK to kill people in certain situations
But it is, you moral coward.
>>29746531
That's what I meant by situation allowing their use. You don't just pop off warning shots willy nilly, you have to find a place to put the round where it poses little danger to collaterals, like a tree, soft ground, solid wall, directly upwards etc. Similarly, if there's a chance that by missing the intended limb the round would be going in an unknown direction with possible civillians being in danger, then you don't use it. Being able to distinguish when to use and when not to use is a training issue, but so far it has worked pretty well in places that aren't the land of sugar and sprayed cheese.
>>29745330
Blah, blah, self-defense, blah, blah absolutes, blah, blah 'Murica!
Translation: I'm an Amerifat idiot telling you how to wind up in a cell.
>>29747059
>What is ricochet
I'm not risking that. Either I brandish my firearm at him and warn him to drop his weapon or face the consequence.
>>29745613
>But given your reply you wish you could. It's merely the same thing
Is that supposed to be an insult?
>The gun law is not the issue here
It sure sounds like the opposite, judging by your earlier rhetoric. Doing a 180 degree turn now, are we?
>It's the mentality that you can shoot everyone just because that will induce the world to fall apart.
That mentality exists widely only in circles comprised of tyrannical warlords and government goons.
>Because if you're behaving like the crime perpetrator you're not a victim but someone who was just waiting to kill somone.
Carrying a firearm doesn't harm anyone, and being prepared to defend oneself is not the same as premeditated murder, which you seem to be describing.
>Like I said before, it's not the fact that you can have a weapon, why would it bother me since I've a rifle myself, but that you parade with it waiting for someone to shoot at him.
Let me make it really simple for you: law biding American gun owners who choose to CC/OC do not "parade" (i.e. brandish at a whim; use as a method of scaring people) their firearms, since such action is not taken leniently by the law.
You are confusing black/latino rappers/criminals with ordinary american gun owners.
>And the law is written in this very aspect.
Not in America it isn't.
> The fact someone use "deadly" force,
What force is actually used doesn't matter, but rather what force was INITIATED by the assailant. This is the case in the US as well as European countries.
>which isn't the case most of the time,
Doesn't matter. Reread what I wrote earlier.
>>29744983
You dont have much experience then.
>>29747192
>Black/Latino
You mean niggers and spics, those are the ones that cause crime. Black and Latinos are actually decent people as long as they don't fall for that ghetto/welfare queen mentality and turn into spics and niggers.
t. Hispanic from Commiefornia
>>29745791
> euro/canadian logic everybody
You dont go drinking strapped dummy. In fact, its illegal.
>>29745852
>>29745883
Implying all people that carry weapons observe the law. Your argument is basically "it's illegal so people don't do it". Yeah right.
As for the child rapist, do you kill all child rapists or the ones that have killed before? So regular rape is ok? How many rapes are equal to a child rape? If you kill child rapists, you probably will kill violent and cruel murderer. But how many murders are equal to a violent murder? How many violent murders are equal to a child murder?
Countries got fed up with this shit and decided that the murder of civilians is always illegal. The governement doesn't get to have that extra power.
>>29745613
> doesn't implies you have to be shitty person like the one in front of you.
The only way to securely incapacitate someone with a firearm is to shoot center mass, which usually leads to death.
Here's a tip: if you don't want to die, don't threaten the lives of people around you!
>When you defend yourself you hurt or incapacitate but you're not supposed to kill.
An American court would sentence you to 20 years for unnecessarily using your firearm in a situation where you didn't experience an immediate fear of death (those kinds of situations lead to a dead aggressor), and rightfully so. Guns are a last resort, not a toy with which you can freely maim your fellow man.
>Because murder is a crime
Killing in self-defense isn't murder.
>and killing someone over your instict isn't a smart move.
Actually, that's the ONLY smart move, because your life is the most valuable thing you've got. People who argue like you are the ones who, in true darwinian fashion, end up dead in a struggle against an aggressive assailant.
>Maybe he wasn't going to do anything but you killed him anyway because it was dark and you were frightened.
Let me make something clear: when I say "self-defense", I don't mean "shooting a random stronger in a dark valley", but rather "shooting an aggressive person seemingly hell-bent on harming you".
>And what does it have to do anything with Canada
Canada is a nation which shares many aspects of former British legal culture, including the magna carta and 1689 english bill of rights - legal texts which, at the time of their inception, introduced to the peoples of Europe the enlightenment-era ideal of a right to keep and bear arms.
>or being supposedly a commie?
Commies love control. Disarming the people is a method of acquiring control.
>>29745699
>Because it's so difficult to lower your weapon a little instead of aiming for the chest/heart
Yes, it is difficult if your goal is to incapacitate the person you are shooting at.
>They do in my country
No, they don't. You being misinformed does not make your misunderstandings any more true.
>so why yours can't do it?
Because it makes no sense at all.
>>29745919
We are talking Canada vs US. Canada is 2 per 100 000 and usa is 5. Don't get me started on assault.
>>29745791
>Americans don't understand this.
They sure seem to understand it, given how few such altercations actually take place in real life.
>Not everybody wants to fundementally kill you each time there is an altercation.
You believe in luck, others believe in firearms. This doesn't give you the right to disarm those not as trustful of others as you seem to be.
>Allowing everyone to carry a weapon for that 1 possibility is why the murder rate is off the roof in the US imo.
First of all, relatively few US citizens live in states that enable legally carrying firearms in public spaces. Secondly, the murder rate is not "off the roof" in the US - where are you getting these bogus statistics from? Your arse?
>This is also why the death penality isn't a good idea. It implies that it's OK to kill people in certain situations.
>It implies that it's OK to kill people in certain situations.
And you don't agree? Why should I not be allowed to shoot a home-intruder behaving aggressively?
>>29747252
>Implying all people that carry weapons observe the law.
The straw man is real. We have to observe the law, otherwise our defense and claim of self defense in court is moot and we get charged for either voluntary manslaughter or murder. Firearms are he use of a last resort and those who fail to observe the law will get punished accordingly.
>Violent murders
>Implying all murders aren't violent
>>29747059
>directly upwards
>shooting upwards in any other direction, actually
Are you fucking stupid or are you posting from an alternate reality where this action movie idiot shit doesn't get bystanders hurt
>>29746160
>First of all, to /legally/ carry a concealed weapon, you need a permit which requires you to a take a class with both a written and practical test on firearm safety but more importantly on when its okay to draw your weapon. Each permit is signed by the county sheriff who by constitutional power can arrest the governor of the state or ignore orders from the president.
>living in a cuck state
I suggest you move out of NY, NJ, CA or whatever pisshole you live in. Most states requiring CCW give them on a shall-issue basis and without any complicated exams or paperwork attached.
>Anyone in most (I think) states can open carry with a holster
Relatively few states allow OC. CC is much more tolerated on the whole - from a legal perspective, that is.
>>29746477
>The suspect is less likely to die if shot in the thigh as opposed to being shot in the chest
Sure, if you fire FMJ .22LR rounds. A HP round will very likely fuck up your femoral artery, at which point you bleed out in a matter of minutes.
Seriously, don't pretend to be an expert on things you quite obviously are not well versed in.
>The suspect is less likely to die if shot in the thigh as opposed to being shot in the chest, and he might start complying after a warning shot.
You should consider your earlier statement --->
>Another point is that if you allow shooting to wound, the line to cross to use a gun might get thinner, resulting in more liberal use of firearms in situations where its use is not necessitated.
before arguing for a more liberal use of firearms.
>>29747240
People looking for trouble will be armed. The fuck is this logic? You think ghetto gangbangers think "oh shit homie it's drinking time leave your knife and mac 10 at home" "Aight Devar we will drink safely tonight"
I don't know if you think people observe the law 100% of the time, but in Canada, while it's illegal to carry any weapon, all the wiggers/gangsters/dealers are armed in any situation from what I've experienced.
>>29747148
Blah blah, welfare state, blah blah, call the cops, blah blah, fuck personal responsibility, blah blah, yay Stalin!
Translation: I'm a limp-wristed, serf-minded european telling you how to end up dead and buried like a fool.
>>29747320
>2 hillbillys shooting at each other
>an elderly woman stabbed 50 times to death
Can you spot the violent murder?
>>29747252
>Implying all people that carry weapons observe the law.
Gun control won't the people you mention from committing crimes.
> Your argument is basically "it's illegal so people don't do it".
That's actually true most of the time, because using a firearm in the commission of a misdemeanor/felony will land you in jail for a LONG time in almost every US state.
>Countries got fed up with this shit and decided that the murder of civilians is always illegal.
Murder of civilians is always illegal in the US too, buddy.
>The governement doesn't get to have that extra power.
>says the eurocunt whose weak will and spinelessness resulted in two world wars and numerous dictatorships where government very clearly vested itself with vast power over the lives of its citizenry
Have you ever read a history book? My guess would be "no", since you clearly lack any and all historical foresight whatsoever.
>>29747303
>We are talking Canada vs US. Canada is 2 per 100 000 and usa is 5.
Is that "homicide" and not "firearms homicide"? If so, have you taken into account that the vast majority of US murders are committed by feuding gang members?
>>29747303
Yes, and you said
>Allowing everyone to carry a weapon for that 1 possibility is why the murder rate is off the roof in the US imo
And that is simply not true. The real reason for the high murder rate is the same as in Canada- gangs fighting over turf. Owing to a different socioeconomic makeup, you see more of this in the US vs Canada.
It has nothing to do with the issuance of CCW licenses.
>>29747252
In the best situation we kill all rapists but child rapists deserve it the most.of course we will kill a murder why would you want to pay for him to keep themliving.waste of space,time and money.your reply offers nothing but questions and isnt a real argument.also in order to carry you have to have a license in most places.in nost places carrying in a bar is banned.so what you said is that we are all cowboy by letting people carry guns freely but we dont.law abiding citizens know their limits.the people you are discussing are criminals.
>>29747276
>No, they don't. You being misinformed does not make your misunderstandings any more true.
In my country at least cops do shoot to wound unless they absolutely must shoot to kill. Most people shot by cops over here survive to face a courtroom.
>>29747388
That "boohoo he will surely bleed to death" is also a stupid argument, over here cops are required to provide first aid too. Shoot someone in the leg, cuff him and apply a tourniquet. Problem solved.
>Another point is that if you allow shooting to wound, the line to cross to use a gun might get thinner, resulting in more liberal use of firearms in situations where its use is not necessitated.
Somehow this hasnt happened over here.
>>29745058
>But the cane is actually a good idea, especially for me, because there is no way it could be proved that I carried the cane solely for self-defense purposes, which is key to it being illegal
Canadabro, get a motherfucking cane-sword, they are legal here heh
Check out the cold-steel canes... they are rather sweet
Also, get the extending baton in 21", it's a perfect size and it'll give you a nice reach advantage on anyone who pulls a knife on you. Smack their wrists, knees, elbows, or jaw, you'll properly have defended yourself and removed any threat effectively.
Even if it bends and won't collapse anymore if you have to use it in an attack, spending the $40 to stay safe is a minor cost
>>29747637
>Somehow this hasnt happened over here.
Probably because your country doesn't allow the use of self defense with a firearm
>cops are required to provide first aid too.
Same in the US, it's called the paramedics
Wow k. I'm super disappointed in this thread. Never knew there were so many people who value their attackers life more than their own. Also amazing how many people in here have clearly never done anything more advanced than drawing and shooting. Probably shooting at well lit stationary targets.
Here is a hint guys, weapons are force multipliers. Zero times anything is still zero. Doesn't matter if it's a 12 gauge or a baton. If you're a zero, a weapon won't change that. Practice and train and practice more. I personally think a collapsible baton is literally Canada's best choice. But you need to put the hours into learning to use it.
Laughing at all you guys arguing about where to shoot an attacker. You can't get rounds on target at anything more than 20m, why are you pretending you could pull off limb shots in the dark while the adrenaline shakes you? You guys spend too much time imagining how to handle dangerous situations, instead of actually increasing your skillset. Your skillset is limited to what you practise, shooting paper at the range gets you ready to do only that.
Also if you draw your weapon and shoot a guy, that's deadly force, period. Might as well make sure it has deadly effect too.
>>29747663
Calling paramedics is not providing first aid. But that is too far off topic so lets not discuss it.
>>29746227
hahah, nice story. i'll tell you one that actually happened:
>guy walks up with an unlit smoke, 'you gotta light?
>buddy shakes his head, hand goes to 4 o'clock
>dude pulls a 8" blade and says 'gimme dat money'
>buddy says 'don't hurt me! here you go'
>pulls his handkerchief from his left back pocket with left hand
>mugger's eyes track that movement
>buddy draws 1911 from 4 o'clock holster and covers the mugger
>mugger sees the handkerchief, confused, reacquires vision of right hand, comprehends gun
>'drop the knife or i shoot'
>knife hits the pavement
>mugger legs it in the opposite direction
>buddy acquired a nice blade and a good story
>no cops called
>>29747637
At this point I don't even know what sort of goal you're chasing. Are you trying to convince yourself that if you ever have to shoot someone in self defense, you'll be able to disable them without killing them? Sure, it's absolutely possible and it happens all the time, but if you carry, you should prepare yourself for the possibility of taking a life if you ever aim your gun at someone.
As far as I'm concerned, people should be able to arm themselves all they like, just don't delude yourself.
>>29747649
MOTHER
FAKKING
CANESWORD
>>29747735
FUCKING THANK YOU
>>29747176
>what is complete inability to read between the lines
I feel sorry for you.
>>29747329
Would work just fine in a location that isn't urban.
>>29747944
>walking thru the woods, not another sould, lalala, wait shit...
>gangsters ran all the way from the city to mug in the middle of bumfuck, nowhere
you imagine yourself being played by clint eastwood?
>>29744906
Man i had a friend who had muscular dystrophy as a kid, we took swimming lessons together, i remember when he started to have to crawl out of the pool on his stomach. I remember i went away to a different school, and I remember like 4 years later coming back to my town and he was in a wheel chair and he couldnt move anything but his head and one of his hands
I remember how he was friends with me and all the stoner kids, who accepted me after i was the new kid, I remember how we would wheel him outside and leave him there during lunch, and i remember like a year after graduating I learned that he passed away.
Man memories, fuck.
>>29748018
I don't know where you live, but calls to remote summer cottages aren't all that unlikely around here. And those scenarios pretty often involve drunk middle-aged men who are very hard to get through with words alone.
Warning shots and shots to extremeties are usually techniques employed by the law enforcement, but sure enough they could technically be used by civvies as well.
>>29747901
No. If I had to shoot someone in self defense I would shoot center mass. I also would carry if it was legal for me to do.
I was discussing about cops in some countries not shooting to kill and IMO that is a good thing, cops should be held to a higher standard.
>>29747276
>Yes, it is difficult if your goal is to incapacitate the person you are shooting at.
If you are only trained to shoot at the heart sure it will be difficult but there are other ways to incapacitate that aiming the heart.
>No, they don't. You being misinformed does not make your misunderstandings any more true.
Yes they do anon. Not all countries work the same. In Switzerland cops shoot to wound not to kill because they value the trial over the potential death of some thief or killer.
>Because it makes no sense at all.
Maybe for you
>>29747944
>What is probability
You can reduce those but you still have that risk. ricochet would not only have a probability of hitting others, but you and the perpretator you're defending yourself from, defeating the purpose of a warning shot, let alone, you don't know if there are hikers, campers or even hunters nearby. My point still stands.
>>29745983
No anon you've got it wrong; The gorrilas in the city he is referring to are Melanin-enhanced individuals.
>>29747217
BOOM
>>29747192
>Is that supposed to be an insult?
No just a statement
>It sure sounds like the opposite, judging by your earlier rhetoric. Doing a 180 degree turn now, are we?
You may think that for but it isn't the case. It was always about the mentality. I just gave a (very) general idea in my first post which I developed afterwards
>That mentality exists widely only in circles comprised of tyrannical warlords and government goons.
It's the mentality of most people that have a gun for personal protection though
>Carrying a firearm doesn't harm anyone, and being prepared to defend oneself is not the same as premeditated murder, which you seem to be describing.
Like I said having a gun is not the problem, it's how you behave with it and thinking that because you have that gun you can kill whoever may attack you is the problem. You may protect yourself or you loved ones but killing just makes you the perpetrator and the mugger the victim.
>Let me make it really simple for you: law biding American gun owners who choose to CC/OC do not "parade" their firearms, since such action is not taken leniently by the law.
If I'm not mistaken, long time reading US weapons laws, the gun is supposed to be hid in a holster and not on your shoulder, casually laying on your seat or in plain sight though a lot of people do that. That's what I call parading, waiting for somone to shoot at. Even though you're not aiming at someone, it's clear that you want to use it
>You are confusing black/latino rappers/criminals with ordinary american gun owners.
No I don't
>Not in America it isn't.
You get a prison sentence that can be reduced because of self-defense. Still a crime
>What force is actually used doesn't matter, but rather what force was INITIATED by the assailant. This is the case in the US as well as European countries.
Doesn't change the fact that you don't have to/mustn't (depending on the country) use deadly force to retaliate
>>29745180
Criminal here, can confirm
Basically as POG as criminals come though
>>29748233
Now you're getting close to the mark. It's a comparison of likelihoods and possible eventualities; someone getting hit by a ricochet or a falling bullet is far less likely than the suspect dying of a gunshot wound if you shoot centre mass. Therefore minimising the chance of a fatality and taking the minute chance that someone else gets hit is a justifiable risk to take.
But you are indeed correct that sometimes the risk is too great, for example if you're outdoors in an open urban environment, there is no safe place to put the warning shot, so the technique is not applicable to the situation.
>>29747257
>The only way to securely incapacitate someone with a firearm is to shoot center mass, which usually leads to death.
If you don't know how to shoot sure it's the easy way but you can aim at legs, knees or hands easily if you had some shooting lessons, which you should have if you intend to use a gun.
>An American court would sentence you to 20 years for unnecessarily using your firearm in a situation where you didn't experience an immediate fear of death (those kinds of situations lead to a dead aggressor), and rightfully so. Guns are a last resort, not a toy with which you can freely maim your fellow man.
So you pretty much backed me up on this
>Killing in self-defense isn't murder.
Maybe I chose the wrong terms then because in my language it is. Murder is used for a crime with with a planified intent to kill, accidental killing and self-defense killing.
>Actually, that's the ONLY smart move, because your life is the most valuable thing you've got. People who argue like you are the ones who, in true darwinian fashion, end up dead in a struggle against an aggressive assailant.
What I wanted to say is that there are times when you can be wrong especially at night and you can mistaken someone who's walking fast in your direction with one hand in his pocket for someone that will attack you. Gun is last resort like you said, use it with your brain not with your fear. The "smart move" and "frightened" parts were linked in this very aspect.
>Let me make something clear: when I say "self-defense", I don't mean "shooting a random stronger in a dark valley", but rather "shooting an aggressive person seemingly hell-bent on harming you".
That I would agree but still won't say that you can kill him because he attacked you.
>>29748397
the mugger is never the victim. they could have just kept on walking.
>>29748397
>If I'm not mistaken, long time reading US weapons laws, the gun is supposed to be hid in a holster and not on your shoulder, casually laying on your seat or in plain sight though a lot of people do that. That's what I call parading, waiting for somone to shoot at. Even though you're not aiming at someone, it's clear that you want to use it
you don't know much about the US, there are 50 states and the CCW laws vary by state. in mine, you can carry any way you want. i can have it on my lap in my car if i am in a shitty neighborhood. that isn't waiting to kill someone or wanting a confrontation, that is being ready to defend yourself if you attacked with felonious intent while in your vehicle.
>>29744906
This seems to be a decent place to ask, are the top segments of batons solid or hollow? Would filling them with lead shot be a viable option?
>>29748397
>You get a prison sentence that can be reduced because of self-defense. Still a crime
>What is Castle Doctrine
>What is Stand Your Ground
>the gun is supposed to be hid in a holster and not on your shoulder, casually laying on your seat or in plain sight though a lot of people do that. That's what I call parading, waiting for somone to shoot at. It's clear that you want to use it
>projecting this hard
>What are shoulder holsters
Open Carry is legal in many States. There's a difference between open carrying and brandishing a firearm and it has its legal definitions. Know your laws and you won't get jn trouble just like any law abidig citizen do. No one cares about your opinion unless they're like minded individuals.
>It's the mentality of most people that have a gun for personal protection though
That's one of them, but many have it for hunting, recreational sports shooting and plinking, or collecting for historical value
>You may protect yourself or you loved ones but killing just makes you the perpetrator and the mugger the victim
Again, your opinion that nobody but like minded individuals would care about
>>29748655
>Murder is used for a crime with with a planified intent to kill, accidental killing and self-defense killing.
>accidental killing is murder
That's called involuntary manslaughter and is a different charge.
>Self Defense Killing is murdered
No one cares about your pacifists views other than like minded people. Under legal definition of the US, that's called a justified shooting.
>>29748046
Unless you live in the middle of absolute nowhere, there's always the possibilty of someone around getting shot. Maybe yourself. Very likely yourself or your family.
Just don't shoot at the air, ok?
>>29748765
Shooting straight up is completely fine in open air. Do you understand physics? Or mathematics?
>>29744906
I'd say spray is more convenient, as it's smaller and you're more likely to actually carry it. But batons sure as shit are a viable weapon. Don't let them $20 Chinese ones tempt you, the first ones I bought when I was like 16 ended up bending while I tested them out on a tree. Maybe I was just being dumb and you're not supposed to hit things that are hard, but still I'd expect one not to bend so easily. A made in USA may hold up better. Also stick to 21", it's the perfect length. I have a 16" that's tiny and a 24" that's too long when collapsed.
>>29748750
I said that in MY language murder is used for those three different things. And that's why I used murder to talk about self-defense killing
>>29748819
Yeah, but since this website is under American jurisdiction and the majority of users here abide by American jurisdiction as well as learn and follow American jurisdiction, your definition of murder does not apply here. Only time we would care about such a law if we were to travel or move to youe country.
>>29744985
Hit him in the face and head, try to knock him out or do as much damage as possible. If he raises his guard go lower like the ribs and side of the knees so he doesn't get a chance to grab it our of your hand.
There are probably tons of training tutorials, but most are going to be for cops who have liability and can't just bash someone's brains out. In a real self defense situation who cares, fucking kill them.
>>29745791
As a Montrealer, I hereby disown this massive hippie faggot. This liberal mindset is exactly why this city is going down the shitter, and it is why Toronto and Vancouver are next. A goddamn shame your muggers didn't kill your sorry ass.
>>29748840
Not this anon but this is a Japanese imageboard using Japanese servers. We're not even under American jurisdiction
>>29748876
>Futaba Channel is 4chan
>>29748876
>Japanese Board
>Not a Chilean Scarfweaving forum
>>29744906
Bud, you need to read up on our laws.
Canada has Stand Your Ground and self defense laws.
We are completely allowed to fuck up someone trying to do you harm. I don't know what bootlicker told you that shit, but it's a lie.
Also, things a cop has told me were fine to walk around with, in order of least to most ridiculous:
-pocketknife
-hunting knife
-bear spray
-extendable baton
-spring assist knife
-kukri
-sword
-flamethrower
-rifle ("but you shouldn't. You'll cause a panic.")
-dart gun
There are TONS of self defense options for Canadians. You seem to be confusing us with britbongs. I even know guys who CC handguns, because nobody actually gives a fuck, and "better to be tried by twelve than buried by six"
>>29744906
Are you physically capable of fucking someone up with a 1.5ft stick of metal?
If youre the average human being, the answer is yes.
>>29747735
Fucking thank you.
I say that as a martial arts faggot.
>>29745791
Fucking hell, I hate how soft this country is.
>>29744939
I like the Banksy version better.
>>29748867
The crime in Montreal has been in a downward spiral for 30 years. Apart of that, it has always been shit. What part did I miss?
>>29749382
>Canada has Stand your ground and self defense
Do they have something like Castle Doctrine?
>>29748773
Do you not understand the documented issue of derka derkas annually shooting their AKs in the air, and the falling rifle bullets hurting other people?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire
>>29751202
So you don't. Well, I'll explain it to you. Durka durkas don't fire straight up, they all around at an angle like retards; when you fire at an angle, the horizontal vector of the trajectory isn't countered by the gravity, and the bullet retains enough kinetic energy to be dangerous. By firing straight up, there is no horizontal vector; the bullet just flies straight up, until countered by gravity, and then it just falls as it is pullet down by the planet. By that time, it will be completely harmless. Well I guess technically it could hurt, like a falling pebble would. But not enough to cause injury.
My friend's brother once pulled a knife on him and he beat the everloving fuck out of him with one
Then again the brother that pulled the knife was handicapped with only one functional arm
>>29750443
Literally Castle doctrine. Even called the same thing.
The stand your ground thing is instead referred to as "not having a duty to retreat"
>>29746531
thats why the first round in your gun should always be a blank.
>>29745426
We went to war with Mormons?
Blew out a colonel's wife's knee with one once. She was coming back onto Zama during a heightened force protection stance, drunk. She got belligerent about being removed from her car for DUI. She shoved the MP that was with us Force Protection detail soldiers. So I cracked her in the side of the knee with my 32 inch ASP. She dropped to the ground and shrieked like a banshee.
I got yelled at a lot, but didn't get into any kind of trouble that requires writing.
>>29751501
Several times, which is why Mormons are the original preppers. They are just waiting for the next time the Federal government comes after them.
>>29745107
Im a Canadian and you're the reason canada sucks.
>>29751364
If you'd read a little into the article you'd see this:
Firearms expert Julian Hatcher studied falling bullets in the 1920s and calculated that .30 caliber rounds reach terminal velocities of 90 m/s (300 feet per second or 204 miles per hour).[7] A bullet traveling at only 61 m/s (200 feet per second) to 100 m/s (330 feet per second) can penetrate human skin.[8]
That's the straight vertical case. That's enough to injure you for sure senpai.
>>29744906
Lol this guy and his repost
>>29751539
Alright, it might draw blood. Luckily the police usually have a box with bandaids in them.
>>29751604
Alright, next time you are being held up, be sure to whip out your plumb bob such that you minimize the risk of your warning shot to hopefully non-lethal levels. Or, you could just shoot the fucker if he refuses to stay away when you yell at him to keep back.
>>29751634
Or I'll put the round somewhere else, because shooting in the air wouldn't be my first option anyway.
>>29748819
>in MY language.
ALL IS CLEAR NOW.
The Canadian bootlicker is a commie quebecois.
Anglo Canada hates you and your libtarded ways. Pls go.
>quebec is trying to bring back the long gun registry
>while anglo canada tries to repeal existing gun laws
This should explain the real issue in Canadian gun culture for Americans. You see what we're up against? And they live RIGHT INSIDE OUR COUNTRY. Imagine california was 1/10th of the US, and carried about 35% of the nation's political clout. It's a fucking nightmare.
DEAR DIRTY FRENCHIES
ONTARIO HATES YOU
PLEASE MOVE OUT
Americans, please look up our gun control acts. They pretty much always start with a frenchman, or a tragedy in French Canada, followed by MOI FEELINS! MOI POLYTECHNIQUE! MOI CHILDRUNS!
>>29746370
What's more likely, anon?
> Eurocuck pro-am cop aims center mass and lands a shot somewhere in the vicinity, claims "I meant to wound him all along!"
> Master sharpshooter aims at the thigh of a running man, hits his target
How about this: Name your country, and post the official police document that describes shoot to stop and warning shots, and specifies that they are the official police policy in that country.
>>29744906
Human beings have fought with big sticks since the beginning of time anon. But then, there's a reason they invented the sword.
>>29744906
>Up here in Canada, we're not allowed to have hardly anything for self-defense purposes (not even mace, a small knife, etc)
Yes we are. Just buy some bear spray, or you know, a gun, or a knife. The RCMP isn't going to burst into your house because you bought it for "defence purposes".
>>29748136
As a Swiss man who knows several cops, cops shoot to wound because most of them know shit all about self defense, all from hollywood and shit, and are high on their uniform-induced power trip. Try shooting a guy in the leg during a home invasion and the judge is going to rape you with aggravated assault and all sorts of worsening conditions because it's "intentionally cruel". Switzi has a good gun culture, but its legal system and its law enforcement are very much oriented towards protecting the state's monopoly of force and shitting on civilian rights as much as possible.
Our country has a lot of good things about it. It also has a lot of BAD things.
>>29745107
KYS
>>29745776
>Mugger tries to mug you
>Hit him across the face with the sap
>Run like hell while he is dazed
>????
>PROFIT!!!
Sure, a gun would be better, but thats not the point
>>29752094
If you weren't obsessed by communists wanting to destroy your country and weren't reading with blinders on, you would have known that I'm swiss
>>29748895
>not knowing 4chan is Japanese
4chan mascot is Yostuba
>>29744906
They are great if you can get it out in time. And literally the only weapon for parties
>can just swing it like a retard at the guy, no precise techniques needed
>unless you go apeshit on his skull while he is on the pavement, there ia very little chance you will kill him
>has a nice reach
>easy to hold on to it
>>29745791
Fucking this. I'm pro gun and pro self defense. But carrying a gun around for muggings is retarded.
I guess it works in America because your criminals are retarded and most people seem to be either pussies or paranoid, but here that won't work. You either smash his teeth in or comply. Not to mention drunk retards.
>>29754446
Inspired yes. Is it Japanese, no. They're site and servers are based in Los Angeles, Commiefornia. Check 4chan Legal and the Global Rule 1
>>29754478
>made by a Japanese for Japanese
>somehow American
Just like hamburgers are american right
>>29754547
>Chritopher Poole
>Japanese
Wanna know how new you are?
>>29754050
who cares
either way I sincerely hope you get mugged and stabbed to death because you weren't prepared you really, really deserve it
>>29745791
Not the same guy but I disagree completely and have carried for 8 years.
Whether or not you were killed or lived was up to the mugger then wasn't it? Glad you ran in to some nice ones.
It's my life and I won't have the mugger deciding how far things go. If he'll take my wallet he might take my life. If it happens I'm escalating it all the way to a gun fight. Too bad if you don't like that. Your thinking is weak and not that of a survivor. You're just hoping to be spared.
>>29754640
But I'm prepared. Guns aren't the only way to survive a mugging or someone trying to stab/shoot you you know
>>29754880
>"I'm just going to run away, sure hope this guy is working alone!"
you're not prepared
>>29754880
If somebody goes to shoot you, and you're holding your baton, you're fucking dead.
I'm not even the same anon, I'm a military police officer lurking on my phone.
What, do you think getting a burning hot bit of lead in the face at 5 feet is going to kill you any less because you waved the baton like you were conducting your own funeral march?
Get one of those German pepper spray paintball guns. If the Deutschbags get to have them, perhaps those of you im Sweissland get them too? International law is not my forte-personal protection absolutely is.
>>29754547
You HAVE to be joking.
Hiro is the current owner because Moot left like a year and a half ago taking everyone from the old times with him. This site died after 'le fapening xDD' because a bunch of horny loser teenagers came here and it became more of a "Dude let me check 4chan before the bell rings" deal for schoolkiddies. This site is dead as a motherfucker.
Stay on /b/ and /v/, at least, until you've got your fucking high school diploma. A lot of folks on /k/ already got to their station in life, you're not even close to that point.
>>29754887
Who said I'd run?
I practice martial arts and self-defense since 16 years now. I know how to disarm somone pointing a gun at me or trying to stab me.
>>29754902
Didn't say I had a baton, this things are illegal in my country just like tazers or pepper spray. Only cops can have that. Though you can buy a rubber bullets gun
>>29754954
How do you absolutely know he'll be in range for you to disarm him?
>>29745107
>Civilized countries don't let civvies carry pistols around.
Found the cuck.
>>29751427
Well what if someone is rushing at you and you only get one shot.. And your only shot is now blank.
>>29752432
I did not want to spend too long on google so I just quickly pulled this for you.
Translations for those columns are left to right: Year / cases / threatened(with a gun) / shots fired / warning shots fired / dead / wounded
Also cops in Finland train with their guns a lot. They also fire one round at a time. After firing a shot they must asses the situation before firing another one.
>>29755053
Torilla tavataan
>>29745791
>thinking carrying while intoxicated is legal
You're just baiting, aren't you?
>>29746025
>He was right.
Was it your boyfriend who took it from you? :^)
>>29745731
>the one with a fucking spiked ball and chain
every single time
>>29754954
>Pepper spray illegal in Switzi
>thinks martial arts count when confronting an armed opponent IRL
>"illegal, only cops can get them"
Wanna know how I now you are a retard?
The cops have to abide by our same laws. Their ammo isn't hollow point because of that precise reason. They only get a pass on Pava-based pepper spray (RSG2000), and that's because it's military-issue.
Try disarming a thug with a knife in real life, you smug bastard. I'll come at your funeral and laugh. Fancy disarming moves don't matter when the other asshole only needs to go apeshit to disable you. Any martial artist worth his salt will tell you that a knife against an unarmed opponent is a situation to run away from.
But if you think you live in a Bruce Lee movie, go ahead and pay a visit to shady neighborhoods in Zurich, I am sure that the local wildlife will be delighted to receive a lesson in humblemess from the likes of you.
>>29755150
>>29754967
Unless they shoot you from 10 meters, you're always at range for disarming
>>29755164
Then explain why cops can have telescopic baton at their belt or tazer when you can't have it due to LArm
>try disarming a thug with a knife in real life
>fancy disarming moves
You only think that because you never saw what people trained like that can do. Special units and cops are trained like that and have no problems with doing it in real life situation
>any martial artist worth will tell you that a knife against unarmed opponent is a situation to run away from
Only if they teach a martial arts that doesn't have disarming moves or evades. There are martial arts that only serve this very purpose.
>go ahead and pay a visit to shady neighborhoods in Zurich
Maybe your neighborhoods are worse than mine then, because I did once et there is lots of report of people achieving it in Geneva
>>29755277
>you can't have it due to LArm
but you can, they are just restricted by a different weapons permit, exactly like Concealed Carry.
>You never saw what people trained like that can do
I have seen plenty of trained professionals go down in a sparring match where the one with a knife didn't follow the same rules as the trained professional. Disarms may work once in a blue moon, but of you want to bet your life on a set of movements to be perfectly executed under stress, be my guest.
>Geneva
well, that explains the "better than you" mindset you showed throughout the thread.
>>29755053
>implying that graph proves him wrong
Finnish Police only draw and fire their weapons as a last resort, and they most certainly shoot at center mass, in accordance with how they've been instructed to behave in a scenario where danger is presented towards the officer or a bystander.
>finland
>peaceful, homogenous society
>criminals rarely feel the need to carry or use guns, civilians practically never carry guns anywhere, with exception for shooting ranges/forests/summer cottages.
>surprised that cops rarely feel the need to inflict lethal damage with their service weapon
A nation of socialist cucks is easy to police.
>Also cops in Finland train with their guns a lot.
Source?
> They also fire one round at a time.
Source?
>After firing a shot they must asses the situation before firing another one.
Source? Common sense and the way self-defense works in this country would say otherwise - assessment of the situation is done when the immediate threat to life and limb has been neutralized.
torilla tavataan, vitun spede
>>29755277
>Special units and cops are trained like that and have no problems with doing it in real life situation
Wrong. They are instructed to shoot dangerous targets and not get in QQC with them for a good reason. Can you guess the reason?
>There are martial arts that only serve this very purpose.
So fucking what? No "martial artist" with more than half his/her brain intact would ever attempt to disarm a knife-wielding thug if the option to flee is present.
>>29747148
Stop being such an absolute cuck and making the rest of us Europeans look bad. At least indulge him in a debate. The points he brings up are valid and I don't know under what rock you've been living but police have proven themselves either unable to react in a timely manner or too influenced by politics to protect their own citizens from refugees. I'm not saying GIT-EM-COWBOY is the way to go, but we need to look for a compromising solution.
>>29746521
>shit that never happened
Being hit in the jaw by a baton would FUCK YOU THE HELL UP
>>29755827
>The points he brings up are valid and I don't know under what rock you've been living but police have proven themselves either unable to react in a timely manner or too influenced by politics to protect their own citizens from refugees
First off, yuro police are under no legal obligation to protect anyone from any harm whatsoever. Secondly, the police "reaction time" is always - by default, since that's how the system is designed to work - slow.
Unless the government suddenly decides to hand each and every citizen a personal armed bodyguard, the issue of self-defense will become a more frequently debated subject.
>>29745791
Hey faggot, I live in France and I can tell you that it's ALWAYS sandniggers and niggers attacking white people here. The first motive of those attacks is always racism : they want to destroy some whiteys. Robbing, raping or whatever comes after is secondary. Even if you give them what they want, they'll fuck you up 10 vs 1, put you in a coma at best, stab or shoot you at worst.
If white people were allowed to carry guns, there would be far fewer agressions of all kinds.
>>29746521
>be yuropoor at home
>hear some metallic sounds coming from my front door
>clearly it is getting banged on
>look down from the first floor's window
>a sandnigger is banging against it
>get down with my telescopic baton already deployed
>open door
>sandnigger is all surprised and attempts to lunge at me with a screwdriver
>hit him three times on the top of the skull
>fucker suddenly stop being hostile, bleeds heavily and say "what the hell are you doing? I was just rolling a joint!" (wtf?)
>he leaves
>I close the door
That's how a telescopic baton prevented an home invasion and attempted murder.
>>29755723
They only shoot center mass if its a direct threat they most stop at all costs. If it is use of force they do limb shots. Thats how they are trained.
The graph proves warning shots are a thing. Also perps rarely dying should tell you something. And how I know how cops train? I've trained with cops and I know a lot of cops.
Sä et itse tajua voimankäytöstä yhtään mitään. Hätävarjelu ei ole voimankäyttöä. Hätävarjelutilanteessa poliisi ampuu niin kuin parhaaksi näkee pelastaakseen itsensä tai jonkun muun, itse olen kuitenkin kokoajan puhunut aseellisesta voimankäytöstä. Voimankäytöllisesti sillä aseella ammutaan laukaus kerrallaan vaikutusta huolellisesti arvioiden laukausten välillä, laukaukset pyritään myös sijoittamaan raajoihin. Ei näissä asioissa pelata terveellä järjellä vaan on hyvin selkeät säännöt olemassa.
Suomalaisena voit googlata voimankäyttösääntöjä ja poliisin aseenkäyttöä varsin helposti, asia on tänä vuonna kuolemantapauksien vuoksi ollut näkyvästi esillä mediassa, en itse jaksa sitä tehdä, kun pitäisi kääntää englanniksi.
>>29751507
based
>>29744906
You're not allowed to carry that either, there is no loophole. You specifically can not carry anything for the purpose of self-defense.
>>29754046
They don't just magically daze everyone they hit fucknuts.
>>29755007
Blanks could do some actual damage within a few feet
>>29751521
This is a thing about America that seems to have flown right under my radar.
>>29745613
dude just get off this board
no sane adult agrees with you and most of what you're spouting are buzzwords and flawed logic
>>29744906
I think you should carry around a gun or knife anyway. If/when your charged simply argue your right to self defense is a human right and canada cannot violate your human rights with shitty laws
>>29755150
>>29755150
>>the one with a fucking spiked ball and chain
Thats called a "Flale" its a type of mace technically
>>29745613
>Because if you're behaving like the crime perpetrator you're not a victim but someone who was just waiting to kill somone.
"I don't want for others to hurt me, so I defend myself properly."
-You're behaving like a criminal.
>how all i did was carry a weapon to defend myself. i have committed no crime and their is no victim.
>CRIMINAL
Your best weapon is your body. If attaked ejaculate into your enemies face, this will render him blind. Then, penetrate him from behind. This will cause rectum bleeding and demoralise him, as getting raped by another man, is considered humiliating in many cultures.
Good luck!
>>29746370
>shot just before opening door of a school
>a school full of children
>MY AIM IS TRUE
>four kids, two dogs and one jewish math teacher dead
>assailant apprehended
>hero
>legit.af
>>29745776
This is why many police forces used to carry these. Because you know.. police didnt have to deal with breaking up riots. They didnt have to deal with arrests. The just waited in allyways and suckerslapped people....
/sarcasm.
>>29753980
Like every country in the world. Every country....
>>29756093
>englannski
You russian or something...
They're extremely efficient at reminding Jamal and Trayvon to keep their distance.
A thick maglite is also suitable if you're unsure of your region's legality regarding batons.
>>29756947
Nah, he's an autistic Finn talking in Finnish with another autistic Finn on an English imageboard.
>englanniksi
Yeah, the wonders of a case system. Means 'in English'.
>>29745426
>Waco massacre
Ohboy.mp4
>>29745339
>You have the right to defend yourself
>doesnt include the right to means to defend yourself
>sets limitations on how far you can go when jamal has no problems killing you
Kill self
>>29744906
Pick your routes/neighborhoods and times. Area awareness is king, if you see them first your subtlety in the dominant position. Dont pick fights (extended eye contact, scowling), talk your way through (be courteous but brief), stand up straight and walk with purpose.
If your too gimpy to fight or like a nonviolent option.
You can also keep a second wallet with dead/fake cards and $10 loose cash + last years dead phone in your coat. More of a "lizards tail" than "teeth and claws".
Bonus points if it has a broken rubber and a dime bag of battery acid in the wallet pocket. Just cuz.
There's always "grandpa-fu" and pocket sand. Picrelated
>>29755277
>>29755391
>>29755739
The reason why martial art disarming doesn't tend to work most of the time is because the training given tends to be on certain maneuvers that facilitate the disarming. Obviously, these are moves that only appear when the opponent is either intimidated or gets real cocky.
The only way to properly learn martial art disarming needs to be done from spontaneous movements that are not "now you put your hand here anfd then you give him a handjob to confuse them" kind of bull, and acknowledging that it wont always work if learned through telegraphed moves. It's like those people who practice judo then get their ass kicked because their opponent did something different that their gym doesn't do.
You want proper training? Learn with a friend by practicing at home using spontaneous moves that are not stuff they teach at camps or whatever.
Also, the reason why most of soldiers manage proper disarms is because being in live fire combat and stressful conditions puts your senses to their limits. Getting attacked by some kid with a knife and his friends isn't as terrifying when you know there's not going to be grenade or a mine behind you and your vision isn't obstructed by sweat, stress-adrenaline and dirt.
tl;dr: Learn from spontaneous moves not telegraphed stuff, practice with a friend and get hurt as you learn. Realize you're not One-Punch Man or Captain America.
>>29744906
OP, may I recommend a flashlight and, if you really feel you need something to combat somebody, a pen?
The Flashlight is, without a doubt, the best self-defense tool you can carry in this day and age. A flashlight lights up black holes allowing you to see far-off threats ( big difference between seeing a problem at 10 feet and 100 feet away ) while being portable and light-weight; unless you have an old-school Maglite, which could be a more sturdy alternative to a baton will most likely break during your attempt to defend yourself leaving you completely defenseless.
The way you use it is simple: If you are walking with her at night you can shine your light down any dark area to expose threats in your range giving you the opportunity to completely avoid it. Shining the light in a person's eyes is likely to make them back away and select a different target and in the event they do try anyway you can attack from behind the light ( can't see well if they are blinded ) or use the light to trick the attacker into thinking you are elsewhere ( by keeping the light in place but stepping to the side allowing you to go for the side of the head/neck; will most likely work only once per fight ). The best part is you can use the light to help others too: one expert mentioned that, while getting into his car, he heard high-heels and his natural response was to look around for danger which he found in a guy hiding behind a van. He noticed the guy was listening to the footsteps and lit the guy up with his light causing him to bolt across the parking lot.
Outside of personal defense uses flashlights can help you see black ice at night. You don't want to fall and suffer brain damage ( I know somebody who has ) or die so using a flashlight while walking at night during the winter should reflect the black ice allowing you to find another path or carefully go over it. Using a flashlight as your primary self-defense tool is, without a doubt, the way to go.
