Should the mentally ill and the criminally insane be allowed to have the same second amendment rights as anybody else does or should they not have the second amendment rights and be barred from it?
Also just to add on to this when I say mentally ill and criminally insane I mean people like antman for example should people like antman for instance have the second amendment rights or not?
Also if it is a yes but they must prove themselves then what should the person undergo and should they join the military in order to restore their second amendment rights?
Please no hate messages I'm genuinely curious about the majority opinion of the weapons board.
>>29741602
The only one that should be barred from owning guns is antman and you op
Your both equally faggots
SHALL
>>29741649
NOT
>>29741654
BE
>>29741602
Mentally ill should have gun rights right up to the point that they commit a violent felony. Just like every one else. Prior actions can be proven in a court. "Future" actions, or the potential for them cannot and in a just country would never be justification for disarmament.
Also, concerning felons, if they can't be trusted with a gun, they should still be in prison or dead. All felons should get their guns back as soon as they are no longer in the custody of the state. I.e. after they have served their time + any parole or halfway house time.
>>29741659
INFRANGIBLE!
>>29741602
If we as a society and government trust them enough that they're not incarcerated, then yes.
I think we should incarcerate and kill a far larger portion of the criminals and mentally ill than we do though. So there is that.
>>29741668
You ruined it
>>29741663
I agree completely, once their debt to society has been repaid, they should have their rights restored.
this is greatly oversimplifying things for the sake of fitting it into 4chan post but I think
>Can the survive on their lonesome?
>then they're responsible for themselves and have the same rights as others
>Have they demonstrated that they pose a potential risk in the past and as a consequence no longer live without intervention e.g. in a hospital or under supervision
>No. They should not own guns
as for criminals, if you break the law, then the law doesn't protect you in most cases.
the problem with a lot of the mental cases I think you're implying is that you can never tell they have a problem until they actually abuse guns and shoot up a school or something.
Probably, but where do you draw the line? Everyone knows psychology is bs.
>Q: If a person who is unable to complete a 4473 form because of illiteracy or a physical disability wishes to purchase a firearm, how may the transfer be legally completed? May an accompanying person complete the form for the purchaser?
>A: The buyer must personally complete Section A of the ATF Form 4473 and certify (sign) that the answers are true, correct and complete. However, if the buyer is unable to read and/or write, the answers (other than the signature) may be completed by another person, excluding the seller. Two persons (other than the seller or his employees) must then sign as witnesses to the buyer’s answers and signature. [Instructions on ATF F 4473, page 3, Question 1]
If this is the case then no wonder why there is such bullshit.
This shit needs to be illegal to do and if the person is unable to make a coherent sentence or perfect grammar then they should not be allowed to own guns if they have to rely on someone else to fill the form for them.
Just like people with autism they should not even be allowed to own guns because fuck that I will never trust a person with autism to be responsible with something that can kill a human being let alone if that disabled person gets angry because he didn't get his favorite little girl's show on the T.V.
When the fuck will we do away this fucking bullshit and make it where autistic people and the illiterate fucks from owning guns?
>>29741673
This.
I propose:
>all violent crimes be punished by death, all violent crimes become the most heinous of felonies (including shit like simple battery, simple assault that are now relatively minor misdemeanors not punished by *any* jail time)
>3 crimes of any kind (including speeding tickets) result in a summary felony
>all felonies to be punished by a minimum of 6 months in a forced labor institution
>all felonies that would result in a combined total of more than 15 years' incarceration will become eligible for the death sentence
>2 separate crimes resulting in at least 1 felony in a lifetime is guaranteed death sentence
You just fixed all bar fights, Knockout Game, nigs nogging, white trash trashing, drunk driving, speeding, and basically every other crime. You also controlled the population and created a polite society. All without infringing on *any* rights. Including life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness (which just so happen to not be codified or recognized by any US court as actual rights despite them being clearly laid out in historical legal documents).
>>29741726
>autistic people are allowed to have driver's licenses and own cars
>autistic people are *encouraged* to drink, and those under 21 but over 16 can get prescriptions for booze
Of all the ways autists kill people, guns make up less than 1%.
Government has no place telling you what is "mentally ill" or "insane".
>>29741726
>the second amendment shouldn't apply to bind people
>>29741663
Even gang bangers and career criminals?
>>29741760
>trusting someone who can't see to be able to safely use a firearm
>>29741737
>only old ladies get to live
>>29741762
Different anon, but unless they are actively a ward of the court (in jail, on house arrest or parole, paying restitution) yes.
If we trust them enough to be out on their own unsupervised why not?
>>29741768
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6DXiMHroPA
>>29741779
>the country is cleansed of degenerates like you
Also most of the old ladies I know have dozens of traffic citations because while they may not speed they're certainly unsafe drivers.
>>29741768
>discriminating people with something beyond their control by restricting their constitutional rights
>discriminating
>citizen with a disability
>discriminating
>constitutional right
>what is the Americans with disabilities act
>>29741737
>You just fixed all bar fights, Knockout Game, nigs nogging, white trash trashing, drunk driving, speeding, and basically every other crime.
>You also controlled the population...
>without infringing on *any* rights.
>controlled
>without infringing on any rights.
Go back to middle school, you fucking skinhead. Government control is in itself an infringement of rights you God damn Nazi.
>>29741785
>blind
>"legally blind"
There is a distinct difference. I'm legally blind. I can see just fucking fine. The only metric to be "legally blind" is to not be fully correctable to 20/20 vision through normal means (which discludes surgery). I have astygmatism, which is only "mostly" correctable. I'm legally blind.
>>29741796
>ADA
>constitutional right
You clearly don't have anything even remotely resembling an education, anon.
>>29741802
>waah all laws are infringements on my inalienable rights to do whatever the fuck I want and I should never face any negative consequences for being a complete fucking dumbass!
Go back to 8th grade Mr. Anarchist.
>>29741802
Woah woah woah
Let's leave Nazis out of this they didn't do anything wrong
>>29741661
>those posting troll posts will be banned
Yet they never are.
>>29741762
Same anon. Yes. Maybe hipster millenials, moochers, and tumblr feminists will finally have to start taking responsibility for themselves. Government subsidized protection is just as insidious a welfare program as food stamps and robs it's victims of self reliance in the exact same way.
i think you can't have just a little bit of freedom, or have just some people have freedom. you either take it all, or you don't call it freedom.
>>29741819
This.
Despite being a worksafe board explicit posts stay up for days before being "pruned" and nobody's ever banned.
>>29741817
That man wears the glasses and a cane, do you wear the glasses and a cane?
>>29741824
I got b& for posting a get pic that I got from /k/. The problem is inconsistent rule enforcement. Which means that sometimes they are enforced and sometimes not. If they were NEVER enforced, they would be, at least, consistent.
>>29741817
>hey you with the gun!
>are you an American citizen?
>yes I was born with the right to possess a firearm
>are you a felon?
>no I have not been convicted of a felony and forfeited that right
>are you blind?
>yes
>I'm taking your gun away
Do you understand now?
>>29741856
I got a warning for participating in a "roll" post that was derailing a troll thread
It was galko
Worth it
>>29741726
Do you own guns? Because that was autistic enough to fall under your own catagories there bub. They can't read but if they can comprehend the rules of safely and use the gun properly fuck it let them have their friends help fill out the forms. The autism thing should just apply to you nigger
>>29741852
No because I don't need them.
>>29741781
If they have truly reformed and live good lives I have no problem with them having a gun. If they are just waiting to commit another crime than no. Criminals are the people that should have a waiting period to have guns instead of law abiding citizens.
>>29741817
can you see in the dark?
how are we supposed to trust you to safely and responsibly use a gun in the dark when you can't see?
I don't care if you're in danger and your life depended on having a firearm
it's simply not safe for the chilluns
>>29741874
I got a 30 day ban for reporting a string of 50 porn posts in an /ARG/.
I didn't get banned or warned at all for posting my nuts in a rhodesia thread that stayed up for 6 days.
Yes, the rights are simply recognized by the state. They exist regardless of all other concepts.
It should be the society's choice on whether they accept that right, just as it is the individual choice to shoot the people that try and take it from them.
In short. Crazy's should have the rights. But the community should be involved in this crazy's life to the the extent that no harm can come to them. ideally, we would have a culture of deep concern for others interwoven with our national values..But what can i say? Clearly the best bet is to ignore the crazy people.....
In short. If they are crazy, we should know about it and if we know about it we should keep them from being dangerous while trying to make them not crazy. Most of your problems start to go away after you give people medicine and therapy.
>>29741908
>can you see in the dark?
Quite well actually.
I'm correctable with contacts to about 20/30 and with glasses to about 20/25. Supposedly surgery would take me to a guaranteed 20/20 and perhaps better, but if I elect the surgery (since it's specifically by name discluded from the requirements for legal blindness) and achieve 20/10 vision with no further corrective lenses I'm still legally blind.
It's a very convoluted and dumb law.
>>29741676
Only if liberal judges are held personally responsible when criminals they released on non-life sentences go on to commit further crime.
>>29741768
They can use echolocation you bigot.
Of course that only works for the first shot, so therefore they should only be allowed single shot guns.
>>29741935
I personally believe that those who sit on parole boards should serve the remainder of any sentence of a person they let on parole if that person ever commits another crime regardless of how minor, and if they commit a crime while on parole the entirety of the parole board should be tried as accomplices.
Isn't anyone going to point out OP's comment on people like "antman" should own guns?
What about those that are like antman or antman himself?
>>29741958
If the released criminal kills somebody, the entirety of the parole board should be put in front of a firing squad. Summary execution upon conviction of the criminal.
Parole boards are playing with the lives of innocents. Their own lives should be at stake, not just the lives of strangers.
>>29741988
Agreed.
>inb4 b-but everybody commits crimes daily!
I've made it 32 years into adulthood without so much as a parking violation. I wear my seatbelt. I don't speed. If I have a drink with dinner (always only 1) I wait at least an hour before driving, even though a single drink shouldn't ever put me above a 0.08 BAC.
>>29741602
If you're so far gone that you can't be trusted with an inanimate object you shouldn't be allowed out in the general public without direct supervision.
>>29741602
>Should the mentally ill and the criminally insane be allowed to have the same second amendment rights as anybody else
Short answer, No.
Slightly longer answer, Who gets to decide what constitutes as "Mentally ill" ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder
>>29741661
fuck that sticky and fuck that mod. Political discussion around guns was is and always will be, /k/ related for at the very least, the same reason /a/k/ is allowed.
>>29741602
No. Fuck the mentally ill. Fuck the criminally insane.
Retards like that fuck things for every cunt who is normal and does the right thing.
I'd rather give a gun to a nigger first.
>>29742172
>give a gun to a nigger
But that makes YOU criminally insane...
>>29741602
Only women should be allowed to own guns anon. They're the ones that need them most against male rapist and they don't go on mass shootings every week
>>29741760
What defines mentally ill?
For some people, I'm mentally ill because I have depression and I'm gay. But I'd never dream about harming myself or others (outside of self-defense).
>>29741602
I can label anyone I don't want owning a firearm or having rights anything I want.
For example I think you liking drawn chinese cartoons makes you mentally ill with Autistic-Anime-Obsession Disorder. And now you are barred from owning guns.
I can keep making up illnesses and ailments and diagnose everyone I consider undesirable and whom I do not like having INALIENABLE rights.
>>29741661
>Obligatory post telling anon to fuck off before calling him a faggot.
